Federal Spending = Better Education?

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Chart of the Day — Federal Ed Spending | Cato @ Liberty

Obviously throwing more and more money at the problem hasn't helped in any way shape or form.

 

[Oddball]

You obviously hate the chiiiillllldrrrreeeennnnn!!

 

[chanel]

Abbott Districts are school districts in New Jersey covered by a series of New Jersey Supreme Court rulings, begun in 1985, that found that the education provided to school children in poor communities was inadequate and unconstitutional and mandated that state funding for these districts be equal to that spent in the wealthiest districts in the state.

Eventually New Jersey's Abbott school districts, which represent only 23 percent of students, will eat up 90 percent of state school aid if the state does not change its school-funding policies, an expert said Tuesday.

Currently, the state's 31 poor, urban Abbott districts get 58 percent of state school aid, due to a Supreme Court ruling that those districts must be funded at levels that allow them to spend as much as the wealthiest districts spend.

Expert: Abbott school districts to consume almost all aid | Article from Press of Atlantic City | HighBeam Research

Except for a handful of schools, New Jersey's Abbott school districts continue to lag solidly behind their peers in language arts and math. And Department of Education commissioner Lucille Davy said the results are a reminder of just how much work those mostly urban districts have ahead to narrow the gap.

NJ spends approx. $16K per student (est. $6 billion) on 31 districts out of 660. Coming soon to the rest of the country?

Money is not the answer. Why do charter schools do so much better? Because they can kick out the deadbeats and troublemakers and dump them back in the public schools.

My recommendation to young parents: put your kids in private school.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Money is not the answer. Why do charter schools do so much better? Because they can kick out the deadbeats and troublemakers and dump them back in the public schools.

My recommendation to young parents: put your kids in private school.

That's a very true statement right there. Private schools can be very picky with their student population. Comparing private and public school education is comparing apples and oranges.

There are some very good public schools in communities with very involved parents. My parents could not afford private school, but my public school offered advanced course in genetics, statistics, Calculus, and even boasted some publics school teachers that held Ph'D's in their topic. My Calculus teacher held a Ph'D in mathematics. In high school.

So it is possible to get some quality out of the public school systems.

The monetary issue is a sticky one. Part of the problem is that rising technology, infrastructure, and transportation costs have started to drive up the costs for schools. That means if you want a "modern" school where students can learn useful computer related skills, that is going to cost $$$$.

On the other hand, there are documented cases of waste. Many high schools have athletic budgets that are quite frankly too high and facilities that are too expensive. Some beauracratic boondoggles exist.

Like I said, its a messy issue. Modern technology costs money. Making sure the money isn't funnelled into something silly or wasteful is the trick.

 

[chanel]

I went to a very good public school as well but my children go the Catholic schools. They don't have as much to offer as far as academics.but they are far safer. And the reason I say young parents is because I expect things to get far worse in ten years from now. Unless the public demands change. Right now, rewarding bad behavior is the philosophy of most schools. And of course our govt in general.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

I went to a very good public school as well but my children go the Catholic schools. They don't have as much to offer as far as academics.but they are far safer. And the reason I say young parents is because I expect things to get far worse in ten years from now. Unless the public demands change. Right now, rewarding bad behavior is the philosophy of most schools. And of course our govt in general.

I understand.

I have a 16 month old son. I'm already saving for his private education. It doesn't help that I currently reside in a state that always ranks in the bottom 5 or top 5 on education lists... depending on how you word the question.

So he's heading off to private school despite the fact I'm a big proponent of public education. Hypocritical? Yes. But I have to do what is best for my son and right now that means Private Education. I'll just have to work harder with the area public schools to improve them.

 

[The Rabbi]

All three of my kids go to public schools. But all of them are special schools, magnet schools etc so it isn't really a true public school in the bad sense.
I would highly recommend the book Real Education by Charles Murray. He posits four basic "truths" among them are "students vary in ability." That sounds obvious but the ed establishment wants to pretend that the student with the lowest abilities can achieve as much as the student with the most ability, if you just spend enough.
It isn't true. It was never true. We are punishing good students in an effort to make it true and damaging our own society.
First step, take every officer in the teachers unions out back and line them up against the wall.

 

[Skull Pilot]

If I had it to do over again, I would home school my son.

Public school is a fucking joke. Girls suspected of having Advil in their purses get strip searched. kids with a plastic butter knife in their lunch boxes get suspended or expelled. Teachers inspect lunches and confiscate cookies but no one is teaching our kids to read write or think.

yeah let's just give schools more money.

 

[editec]

Tell me Kevin...who pays for the public education system where you live?

The FEDs?

What percentage of your local school system's budget comes from the FEDS?

Do you know?

I'll bet you don't know offhand.

But here you come telling us that the money the FEDS spend isn't working?

And you tell us this because the CATO insitute told you?

Now, having pointed out the flaw in your post, let me tell you that I AGREE with CATO that simply throwing moey at the problem is a waste of time in most cases.

The problem isn't money, the problem is the society from whence the children are drawn.

And THAT is a LOCAL problem, sport.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Your false analysis results from hasty generalization, SP, and outright illiterate statements. If you are using hyperbole to catch attention, then your post has some limited use: how not to argue.

The problem is how to have local control of our public schools, how to keep them adedquately funded, and how to make sure the poorer students have the exact same facilities, opportunities, and quality of teachers that those students from better neighborhoods have.

 

[The Rabbi]

Another stinker rolls out of the keyboard of "Jake, King of the Unsubstantiated Statement."

All those things he mentions have actually happened. I can't say its a regular occurance, but stupid stuff like that does occur regularly.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Your false analysis results from hasty generalization, SP, and outright illiterate statements. If you are using hyperbole to catch attention, then your post has some limited use: how not to argue.

The problem is how to have local control of our public schools, how to keep them adedquately funded, and how to make sure the poorer students have the exact same facilities, opportunities, and quality of teachers that those students from better neighborhoods have.

yeah right like that has helped our standing compared to other countries.

japan has their children in school less than ours and they consistently kick our kids asses in academics so keep throwing money at the public schools, extend the school day so our kids get more of the same piss poor education.

BTW teaching kids to read write and think critically does not require much in the way of facilities. It requires good teachers and the NEA has made sure we have a scarcity if those.

 

[JD_2B]

Chart of the Day — Federal Ed Spending | Cato @ Liberty

Obviously throwing more and more money at the problem hasn't helped in any way shape or form.

The problem is not with them spending money, but how they are doing it. Thanks to George DUMBFUCK W Bush, now the schools have to deal with standardized test scores being their primary financial resource to score their funding with..

The lower the scores, the less money the school gets..

Children who live in affluent areas that can afford tutoring get higher test scores..

So now Obama is being a dipshit and giving all the kids free government funded tutoring.

This is absolutely insane- They need to do away with standardized test results as a means to fund the school system.

WHY they cant just give the teachers the means necessary to teach the kids- the same things the tutoring services use- is just beyond me.

 

[The Rabbi]

If you're referring to No Child Left Behind you can thank the late Sen Kennedy for that one, since he wrote the bill.

But what makes you think there shouldn't be any objective measure of what kids have learned in schools?

 

[rightwinger]

Abbott Districts are school districts in New Jersey covered by a series of New Jersey Supreme Court rulings, begun in 1985, that found that the education provided to school children in poor communities was inadequate and unconstitutional and mandated that state funding for these districts be equal to that spent in the wealthiest districts in the state.

Eventually New Jersey's Abbott school districts, which represent only 23 percent of students, will eat up 90 percent of state school aid if the state does not change its school-funding policies, an expert said Tuesday.

Currently, the state's 31 poor, urban Abbott districts get 58 percent of state school aid, due to a Supreme Court ruling that those districts must be funded at levels that allow them to spend as much as the wealthiest districts spend.

Expert: Abbott school districts to consume almost all aid | Article from Press of Atlantic City | HighBeam Research

Except for a handful of schools, New Jersey's Abbott school districts continue to lag solidly behind their peers in language arts and math. And Department of Education commissioner Lucille Davy said the results are a reminder of just how much work those mostly urban districts have ahead to narrow the gap.

NJ spends approx. $16K per student (est. $6 billion) on 31 districts out of 660. Coming soon to the rest of the country?

Money is not the answer. Why do charter schools do so much better? Because they can kick out the deadbeats and troublemakers and dump them back in the public schools.

My recommendation to young parents: put your kids in private school.

Abbotts have killed NJ education. They take half of all available state funding and throw it at 31 districts who have no incentive to stop the gravy train.
Given the amount of corruption in NJ, it will never change

 

[Elutherian]

Education in this country went to sh*t when the Government got it's dirty hands involved in it. We ought to go to a voucher system until we can get rid of the public education system entirely.

The Government shouldn't control education of children for the same reason they shouldn't control the media.

 

[The Rabbi]

Education in this country went to sh*t when the Government got it's dirty hands involved in it. We ought to go to a voucher system until we can get rid of the public education system entirely.

The Government shouldn't control education of children for the same reason they shouldn't control the media.

Thats going back to the 1870s. That is the system that produced virtually every leading figure who grew up here.
But I am sympathetic to getting rid of public education.

 

[Oddball]

Tell me Kevin...who pays for the public education system where you live?

The FEDs?

What percentage of your local school system's budget comes from the FEDS?

Do you know?

I'll bet you don't know offhand.

But here you come telling us that the money the FEDS spend isn't working?

And you tell us this because the CATO insitute told you?

Now, having pointed out the flaw in your post, let me tell you that I AGREE with CATO that simply throwing moey at the problem is a waste of time in most cases.

The problem isn't money, the problem is the society from whence the children are drawn.

And THAT is a LOCAL problem, sport.

If the local schools want the federal money, which just about all of them do, they have to comply with federal conditions.

Them'z the facts.

 

[ScottBernard]

Yes, public school is practically a joke in this country. I can't understand why some people don't want to see the "spreading the dumbness" aspect of public schools.
Let there be choice. Let there be competition. Kick out the troublemakers or at the very least severely discipline them.
Throwing more money at them will hardly do any good. It isn't so much the institution but the individual who wants to learn. That is the strength of education and the future.
Let the individual choose and prosper.
The government should only demand standards in the curriculum. Like history, civics and government, and physics. Let the schools build upon that and keep hands off. If they are serious about education then they will strive for excellence. Not mediocrity.

I went to public school my whole life and it wasn't terrible. But it left a Hell of a lot to be desired.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The problem is the federal and state control that comes with the money, not the money itself, which pays for better infrastructure and instructor/salaries, etc. The corruption come in the form of federal/state power invested in (1) high-stakes testing, and (2) bloated adminisitrator salaries. The state/national agency officials are all about power, and the district administrators are about bloated salaries and benefits packages.

How to solve this: stop accepting federal and state funds. The district superintendents and their allies will fight this with the last breath of their bodies, because they are about their money and not the welfare of the students.