Federal raid on Gibson Guitars....retaliatory harassment?

[mudwhistle]

If having a thread merged is the worst thing that happens to you today, consider yourself to have had a good day.

**** you.

There are two ways to derail a thread....start a fight with someone and change the subject or merge it with another thread.

Ether way the the purpose of it is wiped out.

Whatever, Leonard.

**** you asshole.

Thanks a lot.

It's bad enough that I have to deal with the libs here.

I don't relish having to fight with the fucken meat-headed rightwingers too.

 

[Conservative]

**** you.

There are two ways to derail a thread....start a fight with someone and change the subject or merge it with another thread.

Ether way the the purpose of it is wiped out.

Whatever, Leonard.

**** you asshole.

Thanks a lot.

 

[Vel]

He probably meant the fretboard... at least that's the way I took it. As an Acoustic Player, I am a Martin man, tried and true. However, if Martin was doing something shady...I'd want them prosecuted.

Those rainforest woods are very scarce... between Luthiers(guitar makers) and mass burnings... Once great tonewoods for acoustics are old stock only anymore. You can't touch a Brazilian Rosewood Guitar for less than $5k-10K... (Blueridge BR-263 and 283 come to mind). almost all of the Brazilian RW available is from people who have been hoarding it.

Deforestation sucks.

The problem at Gibson is not that they are using scarce or endangered woods. The issue is that the wood they're importing is 10 mil thick rather than the 6 mil it would be after finishing. Indian law requires that the wood be finished by Indian labor. Our government has decided to enforce Indian law by way of the Lacey Act even though India has made no complaint. Other guitar companies use the same wood from the same sources. The only difference seems to be that the other guitar manufacturers are union shops while Gibson is not.

 

[mudwhistle]

Whatever, Leonard.

**** you asshole.

Thanks a lot.

See what I mean?

Merging my thread with essentially a dead thread effectively killed mine.



Thanks

 

[NoNukes]

Like the Fish and Wildlife Service doesn't have bigger fish to fry.




(see what I did there?)

Do you only enforce SOME laws? Good pun

 

[Mad Scientist]

I was thinking of buying a Gibson guitar for my birthday or Christmas but now I'm definitely buying one!

I can't believe this shit!

 

[daveman]

Any evidence of ANYTHING, or the usual OCD Pub horseshytte? Un-hunh, thought so. Read a newspaper (NOT the REV. Moon Examiner FCS), or the AP, or SOMETHING!!

Oh, do shut up.

 

[daveman]

I think the thing being lost on most people about this story is. Why the hell is the wood from India illegal to Import? Regulations? Maybe Gibson should open a factory in India and make the Instruments they want to out of that wood there? lol I mean silly regulations like this are one of the reasons Companies move jobs over seas.

The government told Gibson they should outsource to Madagascar.
DOJ Advises Gibson Guitar to Export Labor to Madagascar | RedState

CHRIS DANIEL: Mr. Juszkiewicz, did an agent of the US government suggest to you that your problems would go away if you used Madagascar labor instead of American labor?

HENRY JUSZKIEWICZ: They actually wrote that in a pleading.

CHRIS DANIEL: Excuse me?

HENRY JUSKIEWICZ: They actually wrote that it a pleading.

CHRIS DANIEL: That your problems would go away if you used Madagascar labor instead of our labor?

HENRY JUSKIEWICZ: Yes​

Unbelievable.

 

[daveman]

Interesting. Even though they have been raided before, no charges have ever been laid and Gibson is actually suing the government to retrieve material seized in another raid a couple of years ago.

Can you imagine an overzealous custom official seizing a musician's guitar?

Great piece of this situation by Bob Barr. And he explains the 100 year old law.

One of the laws at play here is the hundred-year old Lacey Act, passed during the “Progressive Era,” and intended to promote conservation and as a crackdown on illegal trafficking in wildlife. The law also makes it a crime for a company to violate the laws or regulations of other countries. In this particular case, Gibson’s attorneys surmise it may be the law of India they are charged with misinterpreting or violating.

The Justice Department apparently believes the wood in question, used to construct fret boards for Gibson’s popular instruments, was imported from India without having first been “finished” by Indian workers; actions that could be considered a violation of that country’s byzantine legal code.

But here's the strange part. No charges have ever been laid. And the government still refuses to return the property. Retaliation for the lawsuit brought by Gibson? Intimidation? Vindictiveness? Harassment?

From the article:

Unfortunately, this is not the first time Gibson has been subjected to the overreaching, punitive arm of the federal government. In 2009, the Nashville facility was raided in similar fashion, based on accusations that rosewood imported from Madagascar and used in guitars, came from illegal logging.

And, despite the fact that to this day, the government has not filed formal charges against Gibson, it has refused to return the company’s property.



Here's the link to the whole piece.

Gibson Guitar to Uncle Sam



And this is really crazy check out the quote from the WSJ

The Wall Street Journal notes that owners of vintage guitars made out of now-banned or regulated woods had “better have correct and complete documentation proving the age of the instrument. Otherwise, you could lose it to a zealous customs agent – not to mention face fines and prosecution.”

One possible motive:

Gibson is a non-union shop. Martin, who uses the same woods from the same sources, is union.

 

[editec]

He probably meant the fretboard... at least that's the way I took it. As an Acoustic Player, I am a Martin man, tried and true. However, if Martin was doing something shady...I'd want them prosecuted.

Those rainforest woods are very scarce... between Luthiers(guitar makers) and mass burnings... Once great tonewoods for acoustics are old stock only anymore. You can't touch a Brazilian Rosewood Guitar for less than $5k-10K... (Blueridge BR-263 and 283 come to mind). almost all of the Brazilian RW available is from people who have been hoarding it.

Deforestation sucks.

The problem at Gibson is not that they are using scarce or endangered woods. The issue is that the wood they're importing is 10 mil thick rather than the 6 mil it would be after finishing. Indian law requires that the wood be finished by Indian labor. Our government has decided to enforce Indian law by way of the Lacey Act even though India has made no complaint. Other guitar companies use the same wood from the same sources. The only difference seems to be that the other guitar manufacturers are union shops while Gibson is not.

Really?

Okay, one of us has been misinformed.

I really do not know which of us has, but the story I got was entirely different than the one you're telling us.

I have no dog is this fight one way or the other so the only thing I can say is that it would be NICE if we could count on the MEDIA to get their facts RIGHT.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Last week Federal agents raided two Gibson guitar factories in Tennessee because materials that were used by the guitar maker were allegedly breaking international laws.
Why is obama killing the economy?

merged

 

[Zander]

Political payback. CEO of Gibson Guitar a Republican donor; Democrat competitor uses same wood - Landmark Report

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Gibson Guitar Wails on Federal Raid - WSJ.com

Gibson told to leave America
CEO of Gibson: Feds Told Us to Leave U.S. - YouTube

 

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,


1. I think Gibson should sue the bastards!



Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

 

[Sallow]

Tell me again Bigrebnc1775 that you hate illegal immigrants..because they are breaking the law..

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Tell me again Bigrebnc1775 that you hate illegal immigrants..because they are breaking the law..

Why is obama trying to kill the American Economy? **** a bunch of mexicans they can kiss the tip of my 5.56 or swallow one of my 45 acps for all I care.

 

[Sallow]

Tell me again Bigrebnc1775 that you hate illegal immigrants..because they are breaking the law..

Why is obama trying to kill the American Economy? **** a bunch of mexicans they can kiss the tip of my 5.56 or swallow one of my 45 acps for all I care.

They broke the law, ace.

 

[ScienceRocks]

I hate invaders of my country. You damn straight I do. I even more hate ones that wishes to take it over as they're doing throughout California. Wars have been started for less.

We need to put the army on the ******* border to stop the thugs from crossing over to our side before we have a war zone within our own country., It is bull shit!

I support full out war with the invaders!!! Get them the **** out of our country.

 

[westwall]

Tell me again Bigrebnc1775 that you hate illegal immigrants..because they are breaking the law..

Why is obama trying to kill the American Economy? **** a bunch of mexicans they can kiss the tip of my 5.56 or swallow one of my 45 acps for all I care.

They broke the law, ace.

Really? The only thing that they seem to be doing is supporting Republicans. Their primary competitor seems to support Democrats and they use the exact same wood and they havn't been touched. Additionally no one has been charged with a crime. Not this time and not the last time it happened two years ago. Sallow, you need to get your head on stright buddy, you're way off base on this.

 

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,


1. This is an outrage!
2. These indian *Fuckchops* chop down some trees then make laws that it has to be used or worked with indian hands in order to be *legal*,..are you kidding me?
3. Indians can go an **** themselves!
4. If they dont want this wood worked by non indian hands, then they should not be exporting it!
5. I would sue the US government, and the *Fuckchop* indian government!
6. And thats about all I have to say about this *Bullshit!*



Regards,
SirJamesofTexas