Fear is anti-American

[catzmeow]

oooh, the l word.

is your premise then that fear is pro-american?

Yeah, yeah...

We already read Alternet, Common Dreams and the other hate sites. Those fucking whites who oppose Obama are all consumed with fear of blacks, which is why they oppose Dear Leader, and they are unAmerican.

Thanks for the refresher, Herr Goebbels.

If you were capable of being itellectually honest, you'd recognize that both parties are playing this game, because it works for them.

 

[catzmeow]

Do you not see that both parties are framing their appeals on the basis of fear?

Yup. And it's effective. It's what keeps them in power. It's what keeps people voting for the evil of two lessers.

And, it keeps them from demanding more and better from the people running for public office....on both sides.

 

[catzmeow]

Love it.. is that a Guy Fawkes mask in the lower left?

Yes, the picture is from an OWS rally.

Actually, the main people who wear Guy Fawkes tend to be associated with anonymous, they aren't particularly partisan, they are, generally speaking, primarily opposed to violations of the free exchange of information, both online and in mainstream society. And, anonymous historically hasn't been a fan of OWS, either. They tend to describe OWS as a bunch of tree-hugging impotent losers.

You don't even know who the people are that you're afraid of. You just throw terms out there without knowing what the fuck you're talking about.

Like assuming I'm a liberal (Oh, god, the horror!).

 

[del]

oooh, the l word.

is your premise then that fear is pro-american?

Yeah, yeah...

We already read Alternet, Common Dreams and the other hate sites. Those fucking whites who oppose Obama are all consumed with fear of blacks, which is why they oppose Dear Leader, and they are unAmerican.

Thanks for the refresher, Herr Goebbels.

against all odds, you're even dopier than i thought.

thanks for the laugh, unscented

 

[Uncensored2008]

is reading comprehension really this hard for you people?

Is rudimentary thought really that hard for you?

Well yeah, I mean, clearly it is.

What is it the leftist press is pounding at the nation on a daily basis?

What White People Fear by Robert Jensen — YES! Magazine

I mean, there is some sort of theme

White Fear | | AlterNet

Maybe you could figure out what it is

Crime and the Racial Fears of White Americans

It's a mystery

stuff white people do: fear black men (oscar grant open thread)

But maybe a really careful analysis could reveal a pattern

AlterNet: Why Is the Conservative Brain More Fearful? The Alternate Reality Right-Wingers Inhabit Is Terrifying

I'm starting to despair about the future of this country.

Oh? You think Dear Leader may lose?

If reading a simple sign and taking it at face value is so difficult for you, see post #131 above.

Relevance and context have no actual meaning to you, do they?

ROFL

What a dolt.

 

[catzmeow]

is reading comprehension really this hard for you people?

Is rudimentary thought really that hard for you?

Well yeah, I mean, clearly it is.

What is it the leftist press is pounding at the nation on a daily basis?

What White People Fear by Robert Jensen — YES! Magazine

I mean, there is some sort of theme

White Fear | | AlterNet

Maybe you could figure out what it is

Crime and the Racial Fears of White Americans

It's a mystery

stuff white people do: fear black men (oscar grant open thread)

But maybe a really careful analysis could reveal a pattern

AlterNet: Why Is the Conservative Brain More Fearful? The Alternate Reality Right-Wingers Inhabit Is Terrifying

I'm starting to despair about the future of this country.

Oh? You think Dear Leader may lose?

If reading a simple sign and taking it at face value is so difficult for you, see post #131 above.

Relevance and context have no actual meaning to you, do they?

ROFL

What a dolt.

I don't read alternet. I consider it ridiculously biased.

I don't rely on political commentators to spoon feed me opinions, either. So, that's a crucial difference between us, apparently.

 

[Big Fitz]

When we use fear as the basis for our policies in this country, we get off the path. True story.

Sorry. That's a false assumption and personal assertion. There are proper things to fear. Direct threats to your way of life, your society, your family. The desires of wicked to take from you your individual liberty. There are GOOD things to fear. It makes sure you remember what is of value to you. It motivates you to protect what needs to be protected. It keeps danger towards all things you hold dear at a distance.

What you are mistaking is manipulative and irrational fear. Creating false reasons to fear and worry. What you are digging for is not fear. Fear is the tool used. It's the manipulation, racism and evil behind it you are mistaking the tool for the reason and desired result. Manipulation should be your point of contention.

Our lack of initial response to Hitler, for instance....totally based upon fear.

That is correct, but a gross oversimplification. We trusted on many things to prevent any response.
1. It was Europe's problem, not ours.
2. Neville Chamberlain's peace in our time.
3. Appeasment by sacrificing the Czecks, Poles, Austrians and others.
4. Hitler lied about battleship tonnages and we didn't know.
5. Many in this nation agreed with Hitler (See American Bund and Progressivist ties)
6. Two oceans protected us.
7. We were busy first in our own prosperity (1920's) then calamity (The Great Depression) to bother

Hitler DID cause fear in one major area. He manipulated Charles Lindbergh with his show of him to the Luftwaffe, illustrating German superiority in air technology which turned Lindbergh into a great advocate for unifying with or staying clear from that powerful military juggernaut. But this is only one tool of many.

And, we, as individuals, have got to recognize when politicians are appealing to our basest emotions as a means of controlling the behavior of entire populations, and stop allowing it.

The ways of Panderus have been around since the Greeks (even though Panderus was a fictional character of Chaucer he was an archetype of those who did this before) Another word for it is seduction.

The difference between a human and an animal is simple....animals generally can't overrule their instinctual flight or fight mechanism. Humans can. We can feel an emotion, but we can refuse to allow that emotion to control our behavior. We can will ourselves to stop letting the partisans play on our fears.

But not all are able, have the desire to, or personal awareness to notice this. In fact, I'd hazard to guess the majority of people don't realize it, otherwise it would not be so successful.

I'll share something personal...I have PTSD...it started when I was a small child being beaten by my mom on a regular basis, and worsened when I started doing a job where I was constantly dealing with teenagers killing other teenagers. PTSD is a bitch, because you basically relive the anxiety and panic you experienced in the initial setting where you obtained the condition in the first place....over and over and over again, anytime you experience something that triggers you. It can be a smell, a sound, a situation, or something you see. You can have a panic attack in your sleep, because you dream about something that triggers you. And, every time you get triggered, you feel that overwhelming feeling of fear to the point that you have a panic attack.

You have my sympathy then. I've known people and have a friend who has it pretty bad. I wouldn't be surprised if I did somewhere in my head as well have some for it's very insidious. But what's key number one for controlling it? Awareness. The older I get, the more I see how FEW people are aware of what's going on in them personally. I like to pride myself on being pretty darn aware of my own situation, but catch myself more than a few times falling prey to it. It can be controlled, yes. But first you must be aware, and second you must WANT to control it and not agree with it.

That is another factor present here. Agreeing with the fear. All bigots agree with the fear and hate towards the objects of their bigotry. To them, this is a natural, normal way to feel towards the subject.

I've gone through two types of therapy for it, and I've learned that it is completely possible to control that fear response. It is entirely possible to reason your way out of an emotion, and stop allowing it to control your life. I do it every single day. So, I know that while we will always experience fear, as human beings, I also know that it is possible to control those fears, rather than allowing them to control us.

Absolutely. But again, we get to awareness, desire and agreement. You must know about , want to and choose to fight it. Also, not everyone can controll phobias. There are many out there that have uncontrollable ones. Of course these are usually more carnal like fear of heights, closed spaces, crowds. Irrational yes. Does that mean they can stop the response? Maybe. Others may require medication. Others... never. I got partially over my fear of heights... but it's not totally gone. I can control it. Is that in a way a good fear? Sure as hell is. Why? Because it keeps me from doing really stupid stuff near edges of high places like buildings roofs and cliffs.

I guess I'm advocating a return to logical and rational thinking about our issues as a nation, versus pure blind emotionalism, primarily driven by fears about other Americans.

A laudable goal. I often lament the fact that too many ARE ruled this way because their brain works this way. Consider the Meyers-Briggs personality types. There are people flat out wired to be victims of emotions, and it's not a minority of people really in comparison to the 16 types out there. Some of the largest groups are emotionally driven. You're not going to change that. You just have to work with it.

Fear, as a feeling...not always controllable.
Our response to that fear and how long we experience that fear? Totally controllable.

Yes, but it is not anti-american. I do believe that has been soundly proven by your own as well as my comments. To say otherwise is to commit the same 'sin' as you denounce.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I don't read alternet. I consider it ridiculously biased.

ROFL

Well, that's really nice for you...

Hey, what's that off in the distance, that just flew over your head..

I don't rely on political commentators to spoon feed me opinions, either. So, that's a crucial difference between us, apparently.

Exactly WHAT do you rely on? Retards like del? They be in da clique! Sure, he may be stupid as a pile of bricks, but he's in the clique, and you've got priorities..

LOL

 

[del]

^

pathetic

 

[Uncensored2008]

^

pathetic

del again demonstrates the full latitude of his wit and intellect....

ROFL

 

[catzmeow]

When we use fear as the basis for our policies in this country, we get off the path. True story.

Sorry. That's a false assumption and personal assertion. There are proper things to fear. Direct threats to your way of life, your society, your family. The desires of wicked to take from you your individual liberty. There are GOOD things to fear. It makes sure you remember what is of value to you. It motivates you to protect what needs to be protected. It keeps danger towards all things you hold dear at a distance.

What you are mistaking is manipulative and irrational fear. Creating false reasons to fear and worry. What you are digging for is not fear. Fear is the tool used. It's the manipulation, racism and evil behind it you are mistaking the tool for the reason and desired result. Manipulation should be your point of contention.

Our lack of initial response to Hitler, for instance....totally based upon fear.

That is correct, but a gross oversimplification. We trusted on many things to prevent any response.
1. It was Europe's problem, not ours.
2. Neville Chamberlain's peace in our time.
3. Appeasment by sacrificing the Czecks, Poles, Austrians and others.
4. Hitler lied about battleship tonnages and we didn't know.
5. Many in this nation agreed with Hitler (See American Bund and Progressivist ties)
6. Two oceans protected us.
7. We were busy first in our own prosperity (1920's) then calamity (The Great Depression) to bother

Hitler DID cause fear in one major area. He manipulated Charles Lindbergh with his show of him to the Luftwaffe, illustrating German superiority in air technology which turned Lindbergh into a great advocate for unifying with or staying clear from that powerful military juggernaut. But this is only one tool of many.



The ways of Panderus have been around since the Greeks (even though Panderus was a fictional character of Chaucer he was an archetype of those who did this before) Another word for it is seduction.



But not all are able, have the desire to, or personal awareness to notice this. In fact, I'd hazard to guess the majority of people don't realize it, otherwise it would not be so successful.



You have my sympathy then. I've known people and have a friend who has it pretty bad. I wouldn't be surprised if I did somewhere in my head as well have some for it's very insidious. But what's key number one for controlling it? Awareness. The older I get, the more I see how FEW people are aware of what's going on in them personally. I like to pride myself on being pretty darn aware of my own situation, but catch myself more than a few times falling prey to it. It can be controlled, yes. But first you must be aware, and second you must WANT to control it and not agree with it.

That is another factor present here. Agreeing with the fear. All bigots agree with the fear and hate towards the objects of their bigotry. To them, this is a natural, normal way to feel towards the subject.



Absolutely. But again, we get to awareness, desire and agreement. You must know about , want to and choose to fight it. Also, not everyone can controll phobias. There are many out there that have uncontrollable ones. Of course these are usually more carnal like fear of heights, closed spaces, crowds. Irrational yes. Does that mean they can stop the response? Maybe. Others may require medication. Others... never. I got partially over my fear of heights... but it's not totally gone. I can control it. Is that in a way a good fear? Sure as hell is. Why? Because it keeps me from doing really stupid stuff near edges of high places like buildings roofs and cliffs.

I guess I'm advocating a return to logical and rational thinking about our issues as a nation, versus pure blind emotionalism, primarily driven by fears about other Americans.

A laudable goal. I often lament the fact that too many ARE ruled this way because their brain works this way. Consider the Meyers-Briggs personality types. There are people flat out wired to be victims of emotions, and it's not a minority of people really in comparison to the 16 types out there. Some of the largest groups are emotionally driven. You're not going to change that. You just have to work with it.

Fear, as a feeling...not always controllable.
Our response to that fear and how long we experience that fear? Totally controllable.

Yes, but it is not anti-american. I do believe that has been soundly proven by your own as well as my comments. To say otherwise is to commit the same 'sin' as you denounce.

Really thoughtful response. I don't totally agree with you, but you've presented your perspective quite well.

Would you say that "manipulating fear is anti-American"? I would.

What MBTI type are you? I'm an ENFP, but I'm about 49% T, 51% F. Thus, people emotionally manipulating other people's fear sparks an emotional--and a logical--response in me.

I find it repugnant, and antithetical to our best nature, as a country.

 

[catzmeow]

Exactly WHAT do you rely on? Retards like del? They be in da clique! Sure, he may be stupid as a pile of bricks, but he's in the clique, and you've got priorities..

LOL

You sound like a kid who's still reliving his friendless high school years.

What do I rely on? Doing my own research, seeking out objective sources, critical thinking skills. You know, hard stuff. At least, for you.

 

[del]

Exactly WHAT do you rely on? Retards like del? They be in da clique! Sure, he may be stupid as a pile of bricks, but he's in the clique, and you've got priorities..

LOL

You sound like a kid who's still reliving his friendless high school years.

What do I rely on? Doing my own research, seeking out objective sources, critical thinking skills. You know, hard stuff. At least, for you.

does this mean i'm not in the clique?

*sob

 

[Uncensored2008]

You sound like a kid who's still reliving his friendless high school years.

Is that right?

Must be why I'm more interested in a little clique of "friends" than on making or supporting valid points...

What do I rely on? Doing my own research, seeking out objective sources, critical thinking skills. You know, hard stuff. At least, for you.

Thus far, I've provided dozens of citations to support my contentions.

You? Not so much....

 

[Big Fitz]

When we use fear as the basis for our policies in this country, we get off the path. True story.

Sorry. That's a false assumption and personal assertion. There are proper things to fear. Direct threats to your way of life, your society, your family. The desires of wicked to take from you your individual liberty. There are GOOD things to fear. It makes sure you remember what is of value to you. It motivates you to protect what needs to be protected. It keeps danger towards all things you hold dear at a distance.

What you are mistaking is manipulative and irrational fear. Creating false reasons to fear and worry. What you are digging for is not fear. Fear is the tool used. It's the manipulation, racism and evil behind it you are mistaking the tool for the reason and desired result. Manipulation should be your point of contention.



That is correct, but a gross oversimplification. We trusted on many things to prevent any response.
1. It was Europe's problem, not ours.
2. Neville Chamberlain's peace in our time.
3. Appeasment by sacrificing the Czecks, Poles, Austrians and others.
4. Hitler lied about battleship tonnages and we didn't know.
5. Many in this nation agreed with Hitler (See American Bund and Progressivist ties)
6. Two oceans protected us.
7. We were busy first in our own prosperity (1920's) then calamity (The Great Depression) to bother

Hitler DID cause fear in one major area. He manipulated Charles Lindbergh with his show of him to the Luftwaffe, illustrating German superiority in air technology which turned Lindbergh into a great advocate for unifying with or staying clear from that powerful military juggernaut. But this is only one tool of many.



The ways of Panderus have been around since the Greeks (even though Panderus was a fictional character of Chaucer he was an archetype of those who did this before) Another word for it is seduction.



But not all are able, have the desire to, or personal awareness to notice this. In fact, I'd hazard to guess the majority of people don't realize it, otherwise it would not be so successful.



You have my sympathy then. I've known people and have a friend who has it pretty bad. I wouldn't be surprised if I did somewhere in my head as well have some for it's very insidious. But what's key number one for controlling it? Awareness. The older I get, the more I see how FEW people are aware of what's going on in them personally. I like to pride myself on being pretty darn aware of my own situation, but catch myself more than a few times falling prey to it. It can be controlled, yes. But first you must be aware, and second you must WANT to control it and not agree with it.

That is another factor present here. Agreeing with the fear. All bigots agree with the fear and hate towards the objects of their bigotry. To them, this is a natural, normal way to feel towards the subject.



Absolutely. But again, we get to awareness, desire and agreement. You must know about , want to and choose to fight it. Also, not everyone can controll phobias. There are many out there that have uncontrollable ones. Of course these are usually more carnal like fear of heights, closed spaces, crowds. Irrational yes. Does that mean they can stop the response? Maybe. Others may require medication. Others... never. I got partially over my fear of heights... but it's not totally gone. I can control it. Is that in a way a good fear? Sure as hell is. Why? Because it keeps me from doing really stupid stuff near edges of high places like buildings roofs and cliffs.



A laudable goal. I often lament the fact that too many ARE ruled this way because their brain works this way. Consider the Meyers-Briggs personality types. There are people flat out wired to be victims of emotions, and it's not a minority of people really in comparison to the 16 types out there. Some of the largest groups are emotionally driven. You're not going to change that. You just have to work with it.

Fear, as a feeling...not always controllable.
Our response to that fear and how long we experience that fear? Totally controllable.

Yes, but it is not anti-american. I do believe that has been soundly proven by your own as well as my comments. To say otherwise is to commit the same 'sin' as you denounce.

Really thoughtful response. I don't totally agree with you, but you've presented your perspective quite well.

Would you say that "manipulating fear is anti-American"? I would.

What MBTI type are you? I'm an ENFP, but I'm about 49% T, 51% F. Thus, people emotionally manipulating other people's fear sparks an emotional--and a logical--response in me.

I find it repugnant, and antithetical to our best nature, as a country.

Not the same as you I see. I'd say what it is but, since the last thing I need are some of the asshats on here playing games with my by knowing what MBTI I am, I will say this. I'm very rare. I share a common personality type with less than 1% of the human race. I think there are 4 of them in the MBTI.

Lucky lucky me.

 

[Si modo]

Visual says it all.

(How did this become a partisan thing?)

 

[catzmeow]

does this mean i'm not in the clique?

*sob

I do quite respect your heartless flaying of the terminally stupid and insecure, if that counts for anything.

 

[del]

Visual says it all.

(How did this become a partisan thing?)

there's a lot of stupid people here.

keep it under your hat

 

[catzmeow]

(How did this become a partisan thing?)

FUCK IF I KNOW...

 

[Si modo]

(How did this become a partisan thing?)

FUCK IF I KNOW...

Sad, really.

Oh, and what's up with the little Vendetta dude in the Arafat towel in the lower left corner?