Fast and Furious - Why?

Wiseacre

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Been following this story for a long time, still trying to figure out the rationale for doing it in the 1st place. If the idea is to track the weapons, why weren't GPS devices put into the guns before they were sold?

The only thing that makes any sense (actually very little) is that the anti-gun liberals wanted to spotlight the selling of guns to criminals like the mexican cartels as an excuse to clamp down on gun rights. Can anybody provide a reasonable explanation for the program?

I would add this about AG Holder, either he did know about it and lied to Congress, or he should've known. I mean c'mon, a program that sells hundreds of guns to criminals and nobody tells him about it? That kind of program is put into effect without his knowledge? Sorry, no sale here.
 

OODA_Loop

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Increased Mexican gun violence suits a political end.....even more perceived upside if it spills into the US.
 

WillowTree

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Been following this story for a long time, still trying to figure out the rationale for doing it in the 1st place. If the idea is to track the weapons, why weren't GPS devices put into the guns before they were sold?

The only thing that makes any sense (actually very little) is that the anti-gun liberals wanted to spotlight the selling of guns to criminals like the mexican cartels as an excuse to clamp down on gun rights. Can anybody provide a reasonable explanation for the program?

I would add this about AG Holder, either he did know about it and lied to Congress, or he should've known. I mean c'mon, a program that sells hundreds of guns to criminals and nobody tells him about it? That kind of program is put into effect without his knowledge? Sorry, no sale here.






You answered your own damn question. I'm so proud of you.
 
OP
Wiseacre

Wiseacre

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Well, I was hoping for somebody to offer a different perspective that makes more sense than this. I mean, I know that the left is anti-gun and would love to discredit and limit gun sales. But to go this far, with such a hare-brained idea, would they really be that dumb?
 

The T

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Increased Mexican gun violence suits a political end.....even more perceived upside if it spills into the US.
Try an attempt at fomenting outrage by the result as you post... ending up bolstering an attempt for Obama and Holder to further circumvent the 2nd Amendment.

Thing is? It backfired.
 
OP
Wiseacre

Wiseacre

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Been following this story for a long time, still trying to figure out the rationale for doing it in the 1st place. If the idea is to track the weapons, why weren't GPS devices put into the guns before they were sold?

The only thing that makes any sense (actually very little) is that the anti-gun liberals wanted to spotlight the selling of guns to criminals like the mexican cartels as an excuse to clamp down on gun rights. Can anybody provide a reasonable explanation for the program?

I would add this about AG Holder, either he did know about it and lied to Congress, or he should've known. I mean c'mon, a program that sells hundreds of guns to criminals and nobody tells him about it? That kind of program is put into effect without his knowledge? Sorry, no sale here.

You answered your own damn question. I'm so proud of you.


My own damn question? I believe my feelings are hurted.

"Don't be cruel, to a heart that's true "
 

Jackson

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Been following this story for a long time, still trying to figure out the rationale for doing it in the 1st place. If the idea is to track the weapons, why weren't GPS devices put into the guns before they were sold?

The only thing that makes any sense (actually very little) is that the anti-gun liberals wanted to spotlight the selling of guns to criminals like the mexican cartels as an excuse to clamp down on gun rights. Can anybody provide a reasonable explanation for the program?

I would add this about AG Holder, either he did know about it and lied to Congress, or he should've known. I mean c'mon, a program that sells hundreds of guns to criminals and nobody tells him about it? That kind of program is put into effect without his knowledge? Sorry, no sale here.
From what I understand, this program began in the previous administration, near the end of their term and much less in size. The arms were being tracked. The name of the operation was called Gun Runner.

Under the Obama administration, it was changed to Fast and Furious and funding was increased, signed by the president. The initial idea as told to the arms merchant that the arms were going to be tracked a sting operation was going to be done federal agency operatives were under the same opinion. But when the watch was cancelled after the guns were purchased, one agent took it upon himself to keep an eye on where the weapons were being housed and told the agency involved. He was told that if he continued his surveillance he would be suspended. He ended up being the whistleblower.

Rumors were out that news was leaking and when the Senator was shot in the head (can't remember her name now) their was worries that the weapon may have been one from the Fast and Furious operation. That did not turn out to be true, but the worries were there., But it did out to be true when the border agent was murdered and everything came to light.

Why? It didn't make sense but rumor was that it was about gun control and politcal issues. That could never be proven by a second person as far as I have read.
MOO
 

tinydancer

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Liberals are insane. When you get a grip on that, you start to understand them.

This Fast and Furious makes total sense to these whack jobs. Give a whole batch of Mexican drug dealers a whole batch of American firepower, blame American gun owners, and somewhere out there a Democrat like Maxine Waters will go....

see it's our fault.

okey dokey.
 

GWV5903

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Well, I was hoping for somebody to offer a different perspective that makes more sense than this. I mean, I know that the left is anti-gun and would love to discredit and limit gun sales. But to go this far, with such a hare-brained idea, would they really be that dumb?
There you go again answering your own question...
 

healthmyths

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1) Bush's project was " "Operation Wide Receiver" not gun runner!
2) Differences between the two


FACTS first of all:
Kurt Hofmann, the St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner,
"Well, for one, four or five years ago, we didn't have the administration (from the President on down), the mass media, and "gun control" advocates incessantly claiming that, "[Some variable, but invariably wildly inflated] percentage of seized Mexican crime guns come from the U.S.," imposing on us the moral imperative to "strengthen" our "weak gun laws."

We didn't have a requirement in the southwest border states to report multiple long gun sales--a requirement for which "walked" guns ouf of "Operation Fast and Furious" were used as justification. Nor did we have guns "walked" from Indiana to Chicago used to attempt to impose extra reporting requirements on and Indiana gun dealer.

At this point, we don't seem to have any evidence that earlier "gunwalking" involved the FBI, the DEA, DHS, the State Department, the IRS, and even the White House Security Council."
No Lawyers - Only Guns and Money: Sharyl Attkisson Report On Operation Wide Receiver


Kurt is correct that this should be investigated as well. He is also very correct in saying that the signs of failure of Operation Wide Receiver were known by 2009 and that it should have been a warning about going ahead with Operation Fast and Furious.
 

Jackson

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1) Bush's project was " "Operation Wide Receiver" not gun runner!
2) Differences between the two


FACTS first of all:
Kurt Hofmann, the St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner,
"Well, for one, four or five years ago, we didn't have the administration (from the President on down), the mass media, and "gun control" advocates incessantly claiming that, "[Some variable, but invariably wildly inflated] percentage of seized Mexican crime guns come from the U.S.," imposing on us the moral imperative to "strengthen" our "weak gun laws."

We didn't have a requirement in the southwest border states to report multiple long gun sales--a requirement for which "walked" guns ouf of "Operation Fast and Furious" were used as justification. Nor did we have guns "walked" from Indiana to Chicago used to attempt to impose extra reporting requirements on and Indiana gun dealer.

At this point, we don't seem to have any evidence that earlier "gunwalking" involved the FBI, the DEA, DHS, the State Department, the IRS, and even the White House Security Council."
No Lawyers - Only Guns and Money: Sharyl Attkisson Report On Operation Wide Receiver


Kurt is correct that this should be investigated as well. He is also very correct in saying that the signs of failure of Operation Wide Receiver were known by 2009 and that it should have been a warning about going ahead with Operation Fast and Furious.
Ach!!! Operation Wide Receiver...you are right!! So did the Obama Admin. change it to Gun Runner....Thanks!
 

iamwhatiseem

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It does boggle the mind.
It is sorta like selling little girls to possible predators to see who they might catch.
It was pure insanity and the only thing worse is the liberal media's outright ignoring the story except for a few 10 second spots.
I shudder at the 24 hour a day coverage this would be getting if it was Bush - as well as the day to day coverage by the BBC.
Instead...silence.
In so many ways, silence is the loudest sound people can make.
 

iamwhatiseem

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As a matter of fact I just now looked to see if anyone covered the fact that Holder is going to be subpoenaed by congress:

CBS News.......0
CNN...............0
MSNBC...........0
ABCNews........0
BBC America...0
Fox News.......Y
 

Rocko

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So the government can crack down on gun shops, and gun rights.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgkh_1sgFrs]Obama Perpetuates The '90 Percent Of Mexico's Weapons Come From The U.S.' Lie -- In Mexico! - YouTube[/ame]
 

Jackson

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As a matter of fact I just now looked to see if anyone covered the fact that Holder is going to be subpoenaed by congress:

CBS News.......0
CNN...............0
MSNBC...........0
ABCNews........0
BBC America...0
Fox News.......Y
Amazing. Now tell me. What network gives you ALL the news?
 

Soggy in NOLA

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This is what you get when you put faculty lounge theoreticians in charge.
 

bitterlyclingin

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(There's way more than this. Apparently DEA and ATF were engaged in the same activities. DEA selling the weapons to the Zetas and ATF to the Sinoloa Cartel, or vice versa. Two agencies at Justice engaged in the same surreptitious activities has to require knowledge of and approval from higher levels. This probably goes up higher than Holder and he'll be lucky if he can cop a plea to "Felony Stupid" when all is said and done. Why was this done?
Best guess is to foment a Mexican Civil War that caused massive civil unrest and a massive emmigration out of Mexico and into the United States, so large that the United States would be forced to suspend its immigration restrictions on a "compassionate" basis and allow wholesale Mexican immigration into the United States. This would be followed rapidly by an Obama Administration push to register and remove all firearms from public ownership because "Everyone" would know that it was America's lax regulation of and permissive ownership rights under the Second Amendment that caused all this. Time to lay in ample supplies of corn for popping because the legal theatrics around all of this will get "Fast and Furious" as well.)

"Fast and Furious Subpoenas

10:19 am October 12, 2011, by Jamie Dupree


House Republicans today announced that they had sent subpoenas to Attorney General Eric Holder and the Justice Department to gain more information about Operation Fast and Furious, the controversial gun-walking program that allowed weapons to go to Mexican drug gangs.

Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) says his Oversight Committee wants some very basic information, described below.

=

The subpoena seeks the following:

In accordance with the attached schedule instructions, you, Eric H. Holder Jr., are required to produce all records in unredacted form described below:
1.All communications referring or relating to Operation Fast and Furious, the Jacob Chambers case, or any Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force (OCDETF) firearms trafficking case based in Phoenix, Arizona, to or from the following individuals:

a. Eric Holder Jr., Attorney General;

b. David Ogden, Former Deputy Attorney General;

c. Gary Grindler, Office of the Attorney General and former Acting Deputy Attorney General;

d. James Cole, Deputy Attorney General;

e. Lanny Breuer, Assistant Attorney General;

f. Ronald Weich, Assistant Attorney General;

g. Kenneth Blanco, Deputy Assistant Attorney General;

h. Jason Weinstein, Deputy Assistant Attorney General;

i. John Keeney, Deputy Assistant Attorney General;

j. Bruce Swartz, Deputy Assistant Attorney General;

k. Matt Axelrod, Associate Deputy Attorney General;

l. Ed Siskel, former Associate Deputy Attorney General;

m. Brad Smith, Office of the Deputy Attorney General;

n. Kevin Carwile, Section Chief, Capital Case Unit, Criminal Division;

o. Joseph Cooley, Criminal Fraud Section, Criminal Division; and,

p. James Trusty, Acting Chief, Organized Crime and Gang Section."

Fast and Furious Subpoenas | Jamie Dupree Washington Insider
 

bitterlyclingin

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Now just suppose that "Occupy Wall Street" is still in operation when the phrase "Impeaching President Obama for various high crimes and misdeameanors" starts being bandied ariound in the media?
Will George Soros, Van Jones, Stephen lerner, Andy Stern, Richard Trumka et al take this news lying down?
 

Jarhead

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Been following this story for a long time, still trying to figure out the rationale for doing it in the 1st place. If the idea is to track the weapons, why weren't GPS devices put into the guns before they were sold?

The only thing that makes any sense (actually very little) is that the anti-gun liberals wanted to spotlight the selling of guns to criminals like the mexican cartels as an excuse to clamp down on gun rights. Can anybody provide a reasonable explanation for the program?

I would add this about AG Holder, either he did know about it and lied to Congress, or he should've known. I mean c'mon, a program that sells hundreds of guns to criminals and nobody tells him about it? That kind of program is put into effect without his knowledge? Sorry, no sale here.
lets be real here.

A program that sells hundreds of military caliber weaponry to criminlas who reside in a foreign SOVEREIGN nation?

The President of the United States would have needed to approve of something like that.

It could have been taken as an act of war....selling military weapons to an enemy of the government of Mexico....ON MEXICAN LAND...without permission of the Mexican Government.

Obama dam well knew about this.
 

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