Faith Versus The Consitution: A false conflict

[Bonnie]

David Limbaugh
August 9, 2005

"Meet the Press" featured a debate between Professor Douglas Kmiec and former New York Gov. Mario Cuomo concerning whether Supreme Court nominees should be questioned about their religious beliefs.

Perceptive viewers of the debate could see that the real issue wasn't so much the nominees' religious beliefs but the proper role of the courts under the Constitution.

But first, some context. The reason Tim Russert was even hosting such a debate is that a story has been circulating -- based on a column by law professor Jonathan Turley -- that Judge Roberts told Sen. Durbin he would have to recuse himself in cases where the Constitution conflicted with his Catholic faith.

I don't believe Roberts made such a statement, though I don't doubt Durbin told Turley he did. In any event, the White House has assured us that if confirmed, Roberts would not allow his faith to conflict with his sworn allegiance to the Constitution.

Such assurance has not satisfied those zealots devoted to purging Christianity from the public square. Some of them are so mindlessly committed to privatizing religion they don't even believe members of the legislative or executive branches should permit their religious beliefs to inform their policy views. But the idea that a faithful Catholic Supreme Court justice might defer to the pope ahead of the Constitution drives them mad.

In fairness, though, I have to agree -- as does Justice Antonin Scalia, by the way -- that a justice shouldn't let his faith interfere with his duty to uphold the Constitution. My belief is grounded in my respect for the Constitution and the limited role the judiciary is assigned under it: interpreting, not making, law

The Left's fears over Roberts' Catholic faith, on the other hand, proceed not from their reverence for the Constitution, but chiefly from their violent objection to a particular article of the Catholic faith: that abortion is an egregious sin.

If they believed Roberts were a pro-abortionist, they wouldn't demand his allegiance to the Constitution, as written, because Roe v. Wade's judicial sanctioning of abortion would not have been possible by a Court remotely deferential to the Constitution. Indeed, the Left's loyalty isn't to the Constitution, but to certain policies that have been grafted into it by liberal activist judges who, in the process, have exhibited an abiding disrespect for the document.

If everyone shared the strict constructionists' judicial philosophy, concerns over how a judge's faith might influence his decisions would be moot, because strict constructionists don't make policy.

To demonstrate how this would play out in practice, strict constructionists, irrespective of their personal views on abortion, would conclude there is no federal constitutional right to an abortion and that the legality of abortion should be left to the states. Thus, strict constructionist Supreme Court justices, being effectively neutral on the policy of abortion, would not -- on the basis of a mythical constitutional privacy right -- vote to invalidate state laws that either legalized or outlawed abortion.

But it is axiomatic that those who don't play by the rules are always suspicious that the other side won't either. Since liberals have routinely exploited the judiciary to implement their policy agenda they fear conservative-oriented judges might do the same. Actually, they're horrified at the prospect that conservative judges might simply reverse precedent established through liberal activism, such as Roe.



Mario Cuomo gave voice to this liberal fear during the debate. Kmiec asserted that Pope John Paul II's admonition to public officials to work legislatively to limit abortion did not apply to judges, because they are not legislators. Cuomo vehemently disputed this, saying, "The law today, as we all know, is Roe against Wade. That was made by judges and it can be overturned by judges. To say that the [pope's] rules that apply to legislators shouldn't apply to judges is, it seems to me, wrong."

Quite a damning admission by Cuomo. That he so adamantly rejected the legislative-judicial distinction reveals that he fully embraces the idea that courts are a third policymaking branch.

Ironically, it is only nominees of the type Cuomo would prefer -- liberal activists -- whose faith or lack thereof, might influence their decisions on the bench, because they would not consider themselves strictly relegated to a law-interpreting function.

So perhaps we should suggest to Gov. Cuomo and his ilk that instead of inquiring about the nominee's faith, senators should seek to determine whether he is an activist or strict constructionist. If he's a strict constructionist, his religious and political views should be deemed off limits as irrelevant.

But if he is found to be an activist -- liberal or conservative -- he should be summarily disqualified because his activism will inevitably conflict with his required oath to uphold the Constitution.

link
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/davidlimbaugh/printdl20050809.shtml

 

[dilloduck]

This speaks volumes about how much we've forgotten about why /how our
country was formed. Anyone know where a country like this can be found
nowadays? If so, I'd like to move there...

This is worth remembering, because it is true. It's familiar territory,
but..... Those of you that graduated from school after the early 60's
were
probably never taught this. Our courts have seen to that !

Did you know that 52 of the 55 signers of "The Declaration of
Independence"
were orthodox, deeply committed, Christians? The other three all
believed in
the Bible as the divine truth, the God of scripture, and His personal
intervention. It is the same Congress that formed the American Bible
Society, immediately after creating the Declaration of Independence,
the
Continental Congress voted to purchase and import 20,000 copies of
Scripture
for the people of this nation.

Patrick Henry, who is called the firebrand of the American Revolution,
is
still remembered for his words, "Give me liberty or give me death"; but
in
current textbooks, the context of these words is omitted. Here is what
he
actually said: "An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is
>left
us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that
presides over the destinies of nations. The battle, sir, is not to the
strong alone.

Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of
chains
and slavery? Forbid it Almighty God. I know not what course others may
take,
but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

These sentences have been erased from our textbooks. Was Patrick Henry
a
Christian? The following year, 1776, he wrote this: "It cannot be
emphasized
too strongly or too often that this great Nation was founded not by
religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of
Jesus Christ. For that reason alone, people of other faiths have been
afforded freedom of worship here."

Consider these words that Thomas Jefferson wrote in the front of his
well-worn Bible: "I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of
the
doctrines of Jesus. I have little doubt that our whole country will
soon be
rallied to the unity of our creator." He was also the chairman of the
American Bible Society, which he considered his highest and most
important
role.

On July 4, 1821, President Adams said, "The highest glory of the
American
Revolution was this: "It connected in one indissoluble bond the
principles
of civil government with the principles of Christianity."

Calvin Coolidge, our 30th President of the United States reaffirmed
this
truth when he wrote, "The foundations of our society and our government
rest
so much on the teachings of the Bible that it would be difficult to
support
them if faith in these teachings would cease to be practically
universal in
our country."

In 1782, the United States Congress voted this resolution: "The
Congress of
the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all
schools."

William Holmes McGuffey is the author of the McGuffey Reader, which was
used
for over 100 years in our public schools with over 125 million copies
sold
until it was stopped in 1963. President Lincoln called him the
"Schoolmaster
of the Nation." Listen to these word of Mr. McGuffey: "The Christian
religion is the religion of our country. From it are derived our
nation, on
the character of God, on the great moral Governor of the universe. On
its
doctrines are founded the peculiarities of our free Institutions. From
no
source has the author drawn more conspicuously than from the sacred
Scriptures. From all these extracts from the Bible, I make no apology."

Of the first 108 universities founded in America, 106 were distinctly
Christian, including the first, Harvard University, chartered in 1636.

In the original Harvard Student Handbook, rule number 1 was that
students
seeking entrance must know Latin and Greek so that they could study the

Scriptures: "Let every student be plainly instructed and earnestly
pressed
to consider well, the main end of his life and studies, is, to know God
and
Jesus Christ, which is eternal life, John 17:3; and therefore to lay
Jesus
Christ as the only foundation for our children to follow the moral
principles of the Ten Commandments."

James Madison, the primary author of the Constitution of the United
States,
said this: "We have staked the whole future of all our political
constitutions upon the capacity of each of ourselves to govern
ourselves
according to the moral principles of the Ten Commandments."

Today, we are asking God to bless America. But, how can He bless a
Nation
that has departed so far from Him? Prior to September 11, He was not
welcome
in America. Most of what you read in this article has been erased from
our
textbooks. Revisionists have rewritten history to remove the truth
about our
country's Christian roots.

You are encouraged to share with others, so that the truth of our
nation's
history will be told.
John 3:16. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten
Son,
that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life!

This information shared is only a drop of cement to help secure a
foundation
that is crumbling daily in a losing war that most of the >country
doesn't
even know is raging on, in, and around them...

 

[Nuc]

OK, so the rest of us, who benefit from centuries of intellectual progress, what should we do?

 

[SpecialEd]

 

[Said1]

Awww, no poetry this time. Drat, and you were so learnededed.

 

[acludem]

"The constitutional freedom of religion [is] the most inalienable and sacred of all human rights." --Thomas Jefferson: Virginia Board of Visitors Minutes, 1819. ME 19:416

Barry Goldwater:
Religious factions will go on imposing their will on others unless the decent people connected to them recognize that religion has no place in public policy. They must learn to make their views known without trying to make their views the only alternatives

James Madison:
Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other sects?

Margaret Mead:
We will be a better country when each religious group can trust its members to obey the dictates of their own religious faith without assistance from the legal structure of their country.

Ulysses S. Grant:
Leave the matter of religion to the family altar, the church, and the private school, supported entirely by private contributions. Keep the church and state forever separate

and here's one that should clinch for you what the founders meant:

Thomas Jefferson:
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State.
letter to Connecticut Baptists

I can get you more. Our Constitution was designed to be secular and free from religious interference, it was also designed to keep government from interefering with religion.

 

[theim]

I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State. [/B]
letter to Connecticut Baptists

"The rights [to religious freedom] are of the natural rights of mankind, and... if any act shall be... passed to repeal [an act granting those rights] or to narrow its operation, such act will be an infringement of natural right."

--Thomas Jefferson

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness-these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens"

--George Washington

""It can not be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians, not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ!"

--Patrick Henry

"The longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth: that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid?"

--Benjamin Franklin



It must kill you to know our country was founded by religious zealots.




And here's one just for you:



"Many have quarreled about religion that never practiced it"
--Benjamin Franklin

 

[acludem]

Franklin and Jefferson were deists, both were decried as Atheists in their own time. Washington wasn't particularly religious either, he generally refered to "Providence" which is some sort of higher power, but not to "God" or "Jesus". Patrick Henry opposed the Constitution and was a deeply religious person. James Madison steered to passage the Viriginia Statue for Religious Freedom in the Virginia Assembly over the objections of Patrick Henry. It was signed by then governor Thomas Jefferson. Few, if any of those deeply involved in the construction of the Constitution ever, ever argued that church and state shouldn't be separate.

Nice try.

acludem

 

[Abbey Normal]

Franklin and Jefferson were deists, both were decried as Atheists in their own time. Washington wasn't particularly religious either, he generally refered to "Providence" which is some sort of higher power, but not to "God" or "Jesus". Patrick Henry opposed the Constitution and was a deeply religious person. James Madison steered to passage the Viriginia Statue for Religious Freedom in the Virginia Assembly over the objections of Patrick Henry. It was signed by then governor Thomas Jefferson. Few, if any of those deeply involved in the construction of the Constitution ever, ever argued that church and state shouldn't be separate.

Nice try.

acludem

Your summation of what you think these men believed, cannot hold an evidentiary candle to the actual quotes they made. These quotes make it clear that these were in fact, strong Christian men. They fought against a state sanctioned religion- huge difference from the ACLU's atheistic goal of obliterating Christianity in the USA.

Nice try.

 

[Bonnie]

Your summation of what you think these men believed, cannot hold an evidentiary candle to the actual quotes they made. These quotes make it clear that these were in fact, strong Christian men. They fought against a state sanctioned religion- huge difference from the ACLU's atheistic goal of obliterating Christianity in the USA.

Nice try.

Ahh yes but we are to take what ACLU Dem says as fact at face value because he is a.......... Liberal and he knows much more than any of us could ever hope to

 

[theim]

Franklin and Jefferson were deists, both were decried as Atheists in their own time. Washington wasn't particularly religious either, he generally refered to "Providence" which is some sort of higher power, but not to "God" or "Jesus". Patrick Henry opposed the Constitution and was a deeply religious person. James Madison steered to passage the Viriginia Statue for Religious Freedom in the Virginia Assembly over the objections of Patrick Henry. It was signed by then governor Thomas Jefferson. Few, if any of those deeply involved in the construction of the Constitution ever, ever argued that church and state shouldn't be separate.

Nice try.

acludem

So? They mentioned God in public! THEY MUST BE RIGHT-WING THEOCRATIC FUNDIES!!!!! THEOCRACY IS NIGH!!!!!!!

/sarcasm off

In all seriousness, what their religons were does not matter. It is clear that there would be against the current Crusade to eliminate Christianity from the public.