Fact Checking Trump's Yemen Raid Claims

[FA_Q2]

Military men and women die in military operations - that is a cold hard fact and does not make an operation successful or not. Same with military hardware. What matters is if the objective was worth the loss.

Civilian deaths are a problem but also another given. Terrorist use them as shields and surround themselves with civilians making casualties a given. As another poster pointed out, the Obama administration has been actively killing civilians in drone strikes for a long time now. Those were 'acceptable' losses from the left then but now they are proof of failure now.

Weather or not the intel gathered was worth both the life lost and the civilian casualties we simply are not going to know. Obviously the administration is going to claim it was weather that is true or not. Personally I would like to see a massive drawback in bombing and killing overseas but it simply is not going to happen.

Finally, this was not Trumps 'plan.' The CiC does not plan operations - his people do. This was not Obama's plan for the same reasons. Who planned the raid is utterly irrelevant to anyone but the current CiC who gets to determine if that individual should continue planning future operations. It is Trumps responsibility and falls on his shoulders if it was botched or not. The buck stops at the president and he performed the one duty that makes it his responsibility - giving the go order.

I will also add that complaining that the plan was discussed over dinner certainly makes your source look like they have an ax to grind - who gives a shit where the plan was discussed. That is entirely irrelevant.

 

[Rambunctious]

and while I'm at it fuck McCain...he knows better than to open his pie hole in public about this. He is the one...McCain is the guy Trump needs to watch out for. He has a rock hard on for Trump. He wants to get even and he will stop at nothing. You people in AZ need to get rid of this guy...enough is enough.

 

[jc456]

But all through the campaign pathological liar Tramp kept saying how STUPID Obama's generals were, so how STUPID does that make Tramp to use a plan made by STUPID generals when he says he knows more than the generals??????

Well Ed, the plan apparently was stupid according to liberals, so Trump might have a point right?

Wrong.

So it was a good plan, great to know.

tramp's plan sucked.

what plan was that? You know he doesn't write them up right? You should direct your attention to the leaders he was referring to when he campaigned. They are still the same right now. you only confirm his concern as candidate trump.

 

[jc456]

tramp's plan sucked.

It was Obama's plan.

No. It was REJECTED by Obama.

so you admit there was a plan? hmmmmmmm nice step back.

 

[Coyote]

tramp's plan sucked.

It was Obama's plan.

No. It was REJECTED by Obama.

A U.S. special operations raid against an al Qaeda compound in a remote part of Yemen was not delayed because President Obama failed to sign off on the operation before he left office this month, three Pentagon officials told the Washington Examiner.

The timing of the raid instead was determined by "operational" factors, and could not have been launched any earlier than Saturday, officials said. That runs counter to reports that Obama nixed the plan over weak intelligence.

Pentagon sources: Obama did not reject plan for Yemen raid!

All unnamed officials.

So far we have he said/she said.

Except mine have multiple officials in most cases. Interesting that every claim you made has a counter, yet you presented them as fact in each case.

As you are doing with yours? You're presenting them as fact, yes? Unnamed officials are unnamed officials.

 

[jc456]

and while I'm at it fuck McCain...he knows better than to open his pie hole in public about this. He is the one...McCain is the guy Trump needs to watch out for. He has a rock hard on for Trump. He wants to get even and he will stop at nothing. You people in AZ need to get rid of this guy...enough is enough.

mccain is washed up.

 

[Dragonlady]

tramp's plan sucked.

It was Obama's plan.

No. It was REJECTED by Obama.

A U.S. special operations raid against an al Qaeda compound in a remote part of Yemen was not delayed because President Obama failed to sign off on the operation before he left office this month, three Pentagon officials told the Washington Examiner.

The timing of the raid instead was determined by "operational" factors, and could not have been launched any earlier than Saturday, officials said. That runs counter to reports that Obama nixed the plan over weak intelligence.

Pentagon sources: Obama did not reject plan for Yemen raid!

The Washington Examiner? Not a creditable source.

 

[jc456]

tramp's plan sucked.

It was Obama's plan.

No. It was REJECTED by Obama.

A U.S. special operations raid against an al Qaeda compound in a remote part of Yemen was not delayed because President Obama failed to sign off on the operation before he left office this month, three Pentagon officials told the Washington Examiner.

The timing of the raid instead was determined by "operational" factors, and could not have been launched any earlier than Saturday, officials said. That runs counter to reports that Obama nixed the plan over weak intelligence.

Pentagon sources: Obama did not reject plan for Yemen raid!

The Washington Examiner? Not a creditable source.

there aren't any credible sources today.

 

[Rambunctious]

No. It was REJECTED by Obama

Not true...it was held up for a new moon. It's a bit difficult to run a raid under a full moon.

 

[L.K.Eder]

no matter who planned it. trump gave the order to execute it. obama did not force him to use the bad bad kenyan plan, designed by stupid generals. reality and responsibility, they suck.

 

[Rambunctious]

Just Obama trying to look tough on his way out the door and he couldn't even pull that off...the moon fucked him....Brrrrrahahahahahahaha

 

[Rambunctious]

no matter who planned it. trump gave the order to execute it. obama did not force him to use the bad bad kenyan plan, designed by stupid generals. reality and responsibility, they suck

He gave the go ahead on Obama's plan. Planned by Obama's generals. I assure you that won't happen again. Obama's generals are GONE!

 

[L.K.Eder]

no matter who planned it. trump gave the order to execute it. obama did not force him to use the bad bad kenyan plan, designed by stupid generals. reality and responsibility, they suck

He gave the go ahead on Obama's plan. Planned by Obama's generals. I assure you that won't happen again. Obama's generals are GONE!

who forced him to do it? he knew it had to be a disaster, coming from the kenyan and his generals.

 

[OKTexas]

How on earth can anyone tolerate the level of sheer outright lies coming from this Administration? Lies that are so easily refuted. And, once again - this issue goes down to Trump's foundation: the world is composed of winners and losers. A world where win-win can not exist. And a mission where a caveliear disregard to careful planning cost lives. But does he take responsibility...uh...no. He goes off on another Twitter War against critics.

FACT CHECK: Trump's Yemen Raid — 'Winning Mission' Or 'Failure'? It's Not So Simple

The tweets come after almost a week of debate on the success or "failure" of the raid. U.S. officials say they were able to gather helpful intelligence and that 14 al-Qaida militants were killed. But there were also multiple problems:

• the death of an elite U.S. Navy SEAL, Ryan Owens;
• 23 civilians were killed, including the 8-year-old daughter of Anwar al-Awlaki (Awlaki was an American-born cleric and inspirational leader for al-Qaida who was killed in a drone strike in 2011); and
• a $90 million Osprey, a tilt-rotor aircraft, was destroyed after a crash landing.

The operation, the first authorized of the Trump presidency, also raises serious questions about the planning and decision-making of the current occupant of the Oval Office, as well as the truthfulness of information coming out of the White House.

Sean Spicer said the raid was planned last November — under the Obama administration — and that the goal of the mission was to get information.

But neither is true, NPR's Tom Bowman reports.

Rather, the specific place of this eventual raid was identified in November as one to focus on. (Other potential places were also identified.)

"The goal of the raid was intelligence-gathering," Spicer said Tuesday, "and that's what we received, and that's what we got. That's why we can deem it a success."

But the U.S. would not send in SEAL Team Six, the premiere anti-terrorist commandos, to pick up some cellphones and computers, a U.S. official told Bowman.

Part of the effort was to get top al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula, or AQAP, leaders. While more than a dozen militants were killed, a top target, Qassim al-Rimi, either slipped away or was not at the location.

Rimi is the leader of AQAP, seen as a top recruiter and the third-most-dangerous terrorist in the world. Bowman confirmed that Rimi was "one of the objectives," along with disrupting planning and plotting, in addition to collecting material.

What's more, a U.S. official expressed concern that Trump made the decision over dinner. This should have been decided with rigorous debate in the Situation Room, the official said.

Many remember the iconic photo released by the White House of former President Obama surrounded by advisers during the raid in Pakistan that killed Osama bin Laden. The concern with the Yemen raid is the impression that this decision was made too cavalierly.​

Pure supposition from a left wing hack. No on the record quotes from anyone with independent knowledge of the mission. Get back to us when you got something other than FAKE NEWS.

 

[Rambunctious]

who forced him to do it? he knew it had to be a disaster, coming from the kenyan and his generals

No, he trusts the military. Besides it was successful, we got intell we didn't have the day before the raid.
In WW11 hundreds of American lives were put at risk everyday for that kind of intell. Some of you non veterans need to read up on military history.

 

[saveliberty]

It was Obama's plan.

No. It was REJECTED by Obama.

A U.S. special operations raid against an al Qaeda compound in a remote part of Yemen was not delayed because President Obama failed to sign off on the operation before he left office this month, three Pentagon officials told the Washington Examiner.

The timing of the raid instead was determined by "operational" factors, and could not have been launched any earlier than Saturday, officials said. That runs counter to reports that Obama nixed the plan over weak intelligence.

Pentagon sources: Obama did not reject plan for Yemen raid!

All unnamed officials.

So far we have he said/she said.

Except mine have multiple officials in most cases. Interesting that every claim you made has a counter, yet you presented them as fact in each case.

As you are doing with yours? You're presenting them as fact, yes? Unnamed officials are unnamed officials.

I didn't start an OP with unnamed sources, just saying.

 

[L.K.Eder]

who forced him to do it? he knew it had to be a disaster, coming from the kenyan and his generals

No, he trusts the military. Besides it was successful, we got intell we didn't have the day before the raid.
In WW11 hundreds of American lives were put at risk everyday for that kind of intell. Some of you non veterans need to read up on military history.

is this a story that is an alternative truth believed by trumptards, but a lie to everyone else?

 

[yiostheoy]

How on earth can anyone tolerate the level of sheer outright lies coming from this Administration? Lies that are so easily refuted. And, once again - this issue goes down to Trump's foundation: the world is composed of winners and losers. A world where win-win can not exist. And a mission where a caveliear disregard to careful planning cost lives. But does he take responsibility...uh...no. He goes off on another Twitter War against critics.

FACT CHECK: Trump's Yemen Raid — 'Winning Mission' Or 'Failure'? It's Not So Simple

The tweets come after almost a week of debate on the success or "failure" of the raid. U.S. officials say they were able to gather helpful intelligence and that 14 al-Qaida militants were killed. But there were also multiple problems:

• the death of an elite U.S. Navy SEAL, Ryan Owens;
• 23 civilians were killed, including the 8-year-old daughter of Anwar al-Awlaki (Awlaki was an American-born cleric and inspirational leader for al-Qaida who was killed in a drone strike in 2011); and
• a $90 million Osprey, a tilt-rotor aircraft, was destroyed after a crash landing.

The operation, the first authorized of the Trump presidency, also raises serious questions about the planning and decision-making of the current occupant of the Oval Office, as well as the truthfulness of information coming out of the White House.

Sean Spicer said the raid was planned last November — under the Obama administration — and that the goal of the mission was to get information.

But neither is true, NPR's Tom Bowman reports.

Rather, the specific place of this eventual raid was identified in November as one to focus on. (Other potential places were also identified.)

"The goal of the raid was intelligence-gathering," Spicer said Tuesday, "and that's what we received, and that's what we got. That's why we can deem it a success."

But the U.S. would not send in SEAL Team Six, the premiere anti-terrorist commandos, to pick up some cellphones and computers, a U.S. official told Bowman.

Part of the effort was to get top al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula, or AQAP, leaders. While more than a dozen militants were killed, a top target, Qassim al-Rimi, either slipped away or was not at the location.

Rimi is the leader of AQAP, seen as a top recruiter and the third-most-dangerous terrorist in the world. Bowman confirmed that Rimi was "one of the objectives," along with disrupting planning and plotting, in addition to collecting material.

What's more, a U.S. official expressed concern that Trump made the decision over dinner. This should have been decided with rigorous debate in the Situation Room, the official said.

Many remember the iconic photo released by the White House of former President Obama surrounded by advisers during the raid in Pakistan that killed Osama bin Laden. The concern with the Yemen raid is the impression that this decision was made too cavalierly.​

I guess after "W" Bush's administration, nobody cares about "lies" anymore. Remember "yellow cake"?

 

[L.K.Eder]

How on earth can anyone tolerate the level of sheer outright lies coming from this Administration? Lies that are so easily refuted. And, once again - this issue goes down to Trump's foundation: the world is composed of winners and losers. A world where win-win can not exist. And a mission where a caveliear disregard to careful planning cost lives. But does he take responsibility...uh...no. He goes off on another Twitter War against critics.

FACT CHECK: Trump's Yemen Raid — 'Winning Mission' Or 'Failure'? It's Not So Simple

The tweets come after almost a week of debate on the success or "failure" of the raid. U.S. officials say they were able to gather helpful intelligence and that 14 al-Qaida militants were killed. But there were also multiple problems:

• the death of an elite U.S. Navy SEAL, Ryan Owens;
• 23 civilians were killed, including the 8-year-old daughter of Anwar al-Awlaki (Awlaki was an American-born cleric and inspirational leader for al-Qaida who was killed in a drone strike in 2011); and
• a $90 million Osprey, a tilt-rotor aircraft, was destroyed after a crash landing.

The operation, the first authorized of the Trump presidency, also raises serious questions about the planning and decision-making of the current occupant of the Oval Office, as well as the truthfulness of information coming out of the White House.

Sean Spicer said the raid was planned last November — under the Obama administration — and that the goal of the mission was to get information.

But neither is true, NPR's Tom Bowman reports.

Rather, the specific place of this eventual raid was identified in November as one to focus on. (Other potential places were also identified.)

"The goal of the raid was intelligence-gathering," Spicer said Tuesday, "and that's what we received, and that's what we got. That's why we can deem it a success."

But the U.S. would not send in SEAL Team Six, the premiere anti-terrorist commandos, to pick up some cellphones and computers, a U.S. official told Bowman.

Part of the effort was to get top al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula, or AQAP, leaders. While more than a dozen militants were killed, a top target, Qassim al-Rimi, either slipped away or was not at the location.

Rimi is the leader of AQAP, seen as a top recruiter and the third-most-dangerous terrorist in the world. Bowman confirmed that Rimi was "one of the objectives," along with disrupting planning and plotting, in addition to collecting material.

What's more, a U.S. official expressed concern that Trump made the decision over dinner. This should have been decided with rigorous debate in the Situation Room, the official said.

Many remember the iconic photo released by the White House of former President Obama surrounded by advisers during the raid in Pakistan that killed Osama bin Laden. The concern with the Yemen raid is the impression that this decision was made too cavalierly.​

I guess after "W" Bush's administration, nobody cares about "lies" anymore. Remember "yellow cake"?

they care about lies, if they can be pinned on a clinton.

 

[FA_Q2]

tramp's plan sucked.

It was Obama's plan.

No. It was REJECTED by Obama.

A U.S. special operations raid against an al Qaeda compound in a remote part of Yemen was not delayed because President Obama failed to sign off on the operation before he left office this month, three Pentagon officials told the Washington Examiner.

The timing of the raid instead was determined by "operational" factors, and could not have been launched any earlier than Saturday, officials said. That runs counter to reports that Obama nixed the plan over weak intelligence.

Pentagon sources: Obama did not reject plan for Yemen raid!

The Washington Examiner? Not a creditable source.

Care to back that up.