F35 - superfighter or lame duck?

[Manonthestreet]

because of its altitude disadvantage

What altitude disadvantage?

Su 35 operates 15000 ft above F35. Huge advantage. Also super cruises while Lightning does not.
nationalinterest.org/feature/the-russian-bear-roars-the-sky-beware-the-deadly-su-35-11799

 

[SteadyMercury]

Su 35 operates 15000 ft above F35. Huge advantage.

Can you show me where you get the official service ceiling for the F-35 and the SU-35?

SU-35 service ceiling is about 59k feet, F-35 is classified but one sees estimates as high as 60k. Furthermore service ceiling is calculated running clean, a state F-35 will often be but an SU-35 will never be in.

And finally I'd like you to list every incident of air combat that has ever taken place above about 30k-35k feet.

and finally, from the source you just posted:

“When taken as a singular platform, I like the Su-35’s chances against most of our platforms, with perhaps the exception of the F-22 and F-15C,” the naval aviator said. “I suspect the F/A-18E/F can hold it’s own and F-35 has presumed stealth and sensor management on its side.”

So your own source disagrees with your dismissing the F-35 versus the Su-35.

SU-35 is just another in a long line of Russian made planes that have looked amazing on paper and performed great doing tricks at air shows, but when air combat happens they under perform and get shot down by the US military. Ignorant suckers like you lap it up, ooh the scary new Russian plane, deja vu, a plane the F-35 would get first look first shot every time.

I don't think an SU-35 would even see an F-35 coming until it was dodging an AMRAAM.

 

[SteadyMercury]

Also still waiting on your declaration of whether General Hostage is a good source or not, but I'm used to having to keep at it with you since you rarely stick around to defend any position your blather about on here.

You posted an out of context quote from him to support your argument, but when full text was given it is suddenly described as stupid. So is General Hostage's opinion stupid or not, and if so I assume we disregard other things you've posted from him?

 

[Manonthestreet]

Really when is last time US fighters went up against first line fighters?
You offer no facts as usual just uninformed opinion,,,,,,,you cant back one word of your post from an authoritative site....not one

 

[SteadyMercury]

Really when is last time US fighters went up against first line fighters?

There have been plenty of engagements where opposing fighters were capable of very high altitudes, hell a MIG-25 could fly higher than any of these and many have been shot down by F-15s and F-16s.

F-15s and F-16s have also engaged and shot down MIG-29s (service ceiling 59k feet)

Su-35s facing an F-35 swould just be trying to outrun and dodge missiles coming from planes they cannot see or lock on to. The F-35 getting first shot takes the Su-35 completely out of it's focus of locating the F-35, he's trying to evade an AMRAAM while the F-35 is just lining up for another shot.

You offer no facts as usual just uninformed opinion,,,,,,,you cant back one word of your post from an authoritative site....not one

Great irony, as you continue to avoid any pretense of backing up any of the random crap you post here.

Still waiting on you to explain the measure of the IR signature of the F-35
Still waiting on whether we believe or disbelieve General
Still waiting for you official source on F-35 service ceiling
Still waiting on you explaining about all the air combat that takes place at 65k feet

Waiting, waiting... if it isn't something you can regurgitate from some questionable article you've read you're pretty hopeless aren't you?

 

[Manonthestreet]

Llmmmaaaoooo links buddy.....not just your uninformed blabber...

 

[rightwinger]

The F-4 was adequate for its time, but its exhaust was it's main downfall. No one wants to fly a combat aircraft with a big black line leading to it.

Which is the problem the F-35 tries to solve

Combat is not always who is the fastest or most maneuverable. If I can see you a mile before you can see me, I will kill you

 

[Manonthestreet]

Except you can't. Cause not stealthy .....not to mention only plane that still trails black smoke is B-52 because of old engines.

 

[SteadyMercury]

Llmmmaaaoooo links buddy.....not just your uninformed blabber...

Hey imagine that, you again ignored any and all requests to clarify or explain your claims. What an easy way to debate, just say whatever you want and don't worry about proving it.

So again, just to show what a fool you are since we all know you cannot answer these:

Still waiting on you to explain the measure of the IR signature of the F-35
Still waiting on whether we believe or disbelieve General
Still waiting for you official source on F-35 service ceiling
Still waiting on you explaining about all the air combat that takes place at 65k feet

 

[rightwinger]

Except you can't. Cause not stealthy .....not to mention only plane that still trails black smoke is B-52 because of old engines.

I don't have to be 100% stealthy......only more stealthy than you

If I see you first, you are dead

 

[SteadyMercury]

Except you can't. Cause not stealthy

Oops, General Hostage (the guy you used as a source in another post) says here: Gen. Mike Hostage On The F-35 No Growlers Needed When War Starts Breaking Defense - Defense industry news analysis and commentary

The F-35’s cross section is much smaller than the F-22’s

Not that this forum expects ManOnTheStreet to ever quantify or back up his latest bullshit that the F-35 isn't stealthy.

.....not to mention only plane that still trails black smoke is B-52 because of old engines.

As evidenced by the hundreds of pictures and videos of the plan showing it flying along without a trail of black smoke.

Again ManOnTheStreet goes full retard.

 

[SteadyMercury]

Cause not stealthy

Hah hah, apparently you don't know the definition of the word "not"


Radar Cross Section RCS

The F-35 stealthiness is a bit better than the B-2 bomber, which, in turn, was twice as good as that on the even older F-117. B-2 stealth bomber has a very small cross section. The RCS of a B-26 bomber exceeds 35 dBm2 (3100m2 ) from certain angles. In contrast, the RCS of the B-2 stealth bomber is widely reported to be about -40dBm2 .

 

[Manonthestreet]

Except you can't. Cause not stealthy .....not to mention only plane that still trails black smoke is B-52 because of old engines.

I don't have to be 100% stealthy......only more stealthy than you

If I see you first, you are dead

Not so.... A, you have to be able to shoot that far, farther the shot less chance of a hit..B you have burn thru their integral jamming. ...C once you shoot they see you and They will have altitude and speed and range.....Russians can run passive too with AESA and irst.

 

[Manonthestreet]

F

Cause not stealthy

Hah hah, apparently you don't know the definition of the word "not"


Radar Cross Section RCS

The F-35 stealthiness is a bit better than the B-2 bomber, which, in turn, was twice as good as that on the even older F-117. B-2 stealth bomber has a very small cross section. The RCS of a B-26 bomber exceeds 35 dBm2 (3100m2 ) from certain angles. In contrast, the RCS of the B-2 stealth bomber is widely reported to be about -40dBm2 .

F35 has frontal stealth only.... UnlikevF22 which is all aspect

 

[Manonthestreet]

Llmmmaaaoooo links buddy.....not just your uninformed blabber...

Hey imagine that, you again ignored any and all requests to clarify or explain your claims. What an easy way to debate, just say whatever you want and don't worry about proving it.

So again, just to show what a fool you are since we all know you cannot answer these:

Still waiting on you to explain the measure of the IR signature of the F-35
Still waiting on whether we believe or disbelieve General
Still waiting for you official source on F-35 service ceiling
Still waiting on you explaining about all the air combat that takes place at 65k feet

I've been the one providing links.... You're the one talking around and ignoring. Why provide more when you ignore and bs

 

[Manonthestreet]

www.ausairpower.net/APA-Rus-BVR-AAM.html

One more to chew on. Not a pretty picture. At best we'll be trading one to one with f35.

 

[Manonthestreet]

hotair.com/archives/2014/12/04/dont-panic-but-pentagon-now-things-russia-can-jam-american-air-to-air-missiles/

 

[SteadyMercury]

F35 has frontal stealth only.... UnlikevF22 which is all aspect

But wait, you just said the F-35 wasn't stealthy. So when called on your bullshit, you backpedal and now it is only front stealthy?

F-35 stealth is optimized frontal (where it matters most) but it has low observable characteristics favorable compared to 4th gen planes in all aspects, which renders both your first claim (not stealthy) and backpedal claim (only stealthy frontal) as complete bunk.

 

[SteadyMercury]

I've been the one providing links.... You're the one talking around and ignoring. Why provide more when you ignore and bs

You provide links to articles from questionable sources, and when proven they have quotes taken out of context you suddenly switch views and declare the source stupid. I can spam as many positive F-35 links as you can negative, that doesn't get us anywhere.

You've proven you're too shallow here to do anything more than spam links, you are incapable of backing up or discussing any of the click-spam type articles.

Proof you are a fool who is only good for spamming links:

Still waiting on you to explain the measure of the IR signature of the F-35
Still waiting on whether we believe or disbelieve General Hostage
Still waiting for you official source on F-35 service ceiling
Still waiting on you explaining about all the air combat that takes place at 65k feet

No, the forum does not expect ManOnTheStreet to respond, he cannot and we know it.

 

[Manonthestreet]

F35 has frontal stealth only.... UnlikevF22 which is all aspect

But wait, you just said the F-35 wasn't stealthy. So when called on your bullshit, you backpedal and now it is only front stealthy?

F-35 stealth is optimized frontal (where it matters most) but it has low observable characteristics favorable compared to 4th gen planes in all aspects, which renders both your first claim (not stealthy) and backpedal claim (only stealthy frontal) as complete bunk.

Its not, if its not all aspect its worthless.