Explanation of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[P F Tinmore]

Setting aside the fact that these were Europeans with the intent to colonize Palestine, you are making things up as Zionists do. Nothing of sort happened. The Europeans did buy some land but the non-Jews still owned at least 85% of the land at the time of partition.

"164. The Arab population, despite the strenuous efforts of Jews to acquire land in Palestine, at present remains in possession of approximately 85 per cent of the land. "

A 364 of 3 September 1947

The Christians and Muslims were prevented from returning to their homes by the Jews that had expelled them by the Israeli imposition of the the Absentees’ Property Law, 5710- 1950. You can look it up, but in short it says that any Palestinian that left between 1947 and 1950 lost his home and land to the Jewish state.

The operative word being possession, just as now Israel is in possession of 100% of the West Bank. Want to build a case around that freeddy boy

Just because Israel has its fat ass parked on it does not make it theirs.

International law does, or are you one of these racist pigs that believes International law should never work in Israel's favour


By the way read article 80

What part of article 80 says what you think it says?

 

[P F Tinmore]

“If tomorrow, Israel laid down its arms and announced, ‘We will fight no more,’ what would happen? And if the Arab countries around Israel laid down their arms and announced, ‘We will fight no more,’ what would happen?” Prager asks. “In the first case, there would be an immediate destruction of the state of Israel and mass murder of its Jewish population. In the second case, there would be peace the next day.”

I believe Israel don’t have any goal to conquer more territory or to eliminate all the arabs around Israel. I believe Mr.Prager. Don’t you think he’s right? If you don’t, show your vision of the problem.

that's pretty much correct. but the jew-haters on the board won't like it.

Prager went to Columbia?

He should demand a refund.

 

[rylah]

So You say Lebanon and Egypt are on the same continent?
Flawed logic because Europeans call themselves so for living on the same CONtINENT.

balestinians ARE arabs as their Jordan and Egyptian brothers and many more around Israel.

So how am I biased except for my life?

No, I'm saying that they are not the same. All people of Arab-origin are not the same just like all Europeans are not the same.

Yeah yeah let's dance with words, "All people of Arab-origin" are ARABS.

They differ from each other culturally and how they identify themselves.

Are all Europeans the same?

Really round 2?
Europeans live wait for it...wait for it....O THE SAME CONTiNEnT.

Arabs who live n different continents- Africa and Asia do define themselves as ARABS
through the ARAB LEAGUE, nationalities have nothing to do with that.

Arabs who live on the same continent may call themselves Arabs (just like Europeans that live on the same continent call themselves Europeans and define themselves through the EU) but they aren't all culturally the same. It's not rocket science dude.

Well excuse me for bringing this argument back,
I believe too much people here a allowed to ditch their statements just to steer the topic.

Originally I said that Ashkenazi jews were persecuted in europe for being jews, all of a sudden the come
to Israel and they're europeans....

Then follows an argument on whether arabs in Africa and Asia who call themselves ARABS
have different cultures can be called arabs even if they consider themselves so, having the Arab league (including countries from different continents). There's no parallel between them and European Union.
Geography grade 1.

The issue still remains that those jebustian lovers like to close their eyes and choose to call jews those people that suit their views whenever convenient.

Sometimes a hew is a religious person, then it's race, then it's a nation or an ethos...Sometimes Israelis are merely Polish and nothing else, next time they're the leaders of the USSR.

Tell me if arabs can gather from different continents and be respectfully recognized as "The ARAB League"
pursuing different cultural aspirations why suddenly jews who were massacred for their Jewishness
in those arab lands as well as Europe are denied the same right to be recognized as simply JEWS?

when did they become ALL Polish before or after the pogroms?

 

[Humanity]

Phoney, if you are the only person on this board who has not seen the link then that is YOUR issue NOT mine

So in other words you don't have a link, figures. And you don't have the mental capacity to work that one out.

Nor work out that you are having a major hissy fit and meltdown

Link has been provided...

Step away from the computer, put your flat cap on and take your whippets for a nice walk, there's a good Phoney!

So in other words you don't have a link, figures. And you don't have the mental capacity to work that one out.

Nor work out that you are having a major hissy fit and meltdown

Phoney you have to be the dumbest person on this board!

Repeating the same BS over and over when it is clear to EVERYONE that a link HAS been provided and you simply do not want to accept that you are an idiot!

Go let your racing pigeons out and have a wonderful Yorkshire day!

Then it would be the easiest thing to post that link again (10 sec work duh)
and shut him up right?

Then why do You reserve to name calling and using crowd mentality
as an argument?

Link HAS been posted...Why would I want to waste 10 sec of my life on a dumbass who can't be bothered to look for the original duh!

 

[RoccoR]

toastman, Tinmore, et al,

Actually, P F Tinmore is (in part) correct here.

montelatici, et al,

Well, this is not exactly accurate and some what exaggerated.

Wow, that's a leap. Let me get this straight. The Zionists did not intend to colonize Palestine because they only colonized a large part of it. Setting aside that they control all of Palestine and the Israeli PM has stated that there will be no Palestinian state, most of Palestine was, in fact colonized. Your dog won't hunt.

(COMMENT)

Some salient points under Mandate:

• Not all Jewish Immigrants were Zionist.
• Jewish immigration was encourage.
• Immigration included all Jews who were willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.
• In co-operation with the Jewish Agency, close settlement by Jews on the land, west of the Jordan River.

Some salient points after Mandate:

• The Jewish Agency completed the UN Steps Preparatory to Independence.
• In 1949 the Gaza Strip came under the administration of the All Palestine Government (dissolved in 1959) controlled by the Egyptian Military Governorship.
• In 1950, the West Bank (Unification of the Two Banks) became sovereign Jordanian Territory.
• On 5 June 1967, hostilities broke out between Israel and Egypt, Jordan and Syria. By the time a ceasefire called for by the Security Council was accepted by the parties, Israeli military forces had occupied the Egyptian Sinai, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank including East Jerusalem, and part of the Syrian Golan Heights.
• 1997 Oslo II - Area C under full Israeli civil and security control. Settlements are subject to permanent status negotiations:
  • By Agreement with the PLO, "the Settlements" means,
    • In the West Bank - the settlements in Area C;
    • and in the Gaza Strip -
    • the Gush Katif and Erez settlement areas

The Israelis never occupied Palestinian Territory; they did occupied Egyptian Governed Territory and Jordanian Sovereign Territory. The Arab Palestinian rejected the opportunity to establish a State (more than once) until 1988, when they finally declared Independence while the territory was already under military occupation; but four months after the Jordanians cut all ties with the West Bank. During the tenure of the Mandate and the and the time since independence, the Jewish Immigrants never never represented a colonial power; no relationships between a colonial power and any Jewish Settlement was established while the territory was under under the Mandate. In fact the Jewish Immigrants were not all from the same country, or even the same continent; and could not represent a single power.

The purpose of the occupation is to extend the protections to the sovereignty and integrity of Israel against an opponent that does not recognize the State of Israel; and holds the political position that the Arab Palestinian is the only legitimate sovereign to the territory that covers the land west of the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. This is the same opponent that has declared Jihad (Holy War), and considers any means necessary to take in the eviction of the State of Israel as legal and legitimate. This threat was made in February 1948, and has appeared in the Islamic Resistance Movement Covenant, the Palestinian Nation Charter, and most recently, the the 2013 Official Position Paper published by the Khaled Mashaal, Political Leader, Islamic Resistance Movement and Unity Government Partner. Given the previous history of past behaviors, and actual response to the 2005 Disengagement from the Gaza Strip, the Occupation of Palestinian territory there is no reason to believe that an agreement to suspend combat (or any formal Peace Agreement) will be honored by the Palestinian Regime; and that the Palestinians have every intention of attacking by surprise the enemy relying on Peace Agreement they conclude. Based on the current position of the Arab Palestinians there is essentially little prospect for a peace agreement that will have any success.

Most Respectfully,
R

Not all Jewish Immigrants were Zionist.​

That is true. The Zionists imported Jews from anywhere to populate their settlements. Most were probably unaware of the colonial project.

The Arab Palestinian rejected the opportunity to establish a State (more than once) until 1988,...​

Not true. Palestine was already a provisional state under mandate and they declared independence in 1948 after the Mandate left Palestine.

No they didn't. Their declaration of independence was in 1988. Stop lying.

(COMMENT)

The All Palestine Government (APG), established by the Arab League --- in anticipation of an complete Arab Victory in 1948, did announce the independence on 28 September 1948 in a cable (AC.1/330) from AHMED HILMI PASHA, Prime Minister (pro tempore); three months after the State of Israel was declared. The APG made a declaration "DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE." This is the traditional claim that Palestinians hold today as articulated by Khaled Meshaal, (Islamic Resistance Movement Political Leader) in the official position paper: "Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right." Of course the Jewish State and the Arab State cannot declare sovereignty over the same territory at the same time. The dilemma was resolved when the four Armistice Agreements were agreed to by the engaged warring parties. The APG was dissolved by the Egyptian Government in 1959. The West Bank was in Jordanian hands while the Gaza Strip was in officially under APG sovereign hands. The remainder was in Israeli hands. Israel was admitted to the UN and recognized by the General Assembly in Resolution 273 [A/RES/273 (III)] on 11 May 1949.

The end of hostilities and the Armistice arrangements made deliberations on the APG Declaration unnecessary. The forward edge of the battle area (FEBA) along which the Armistice Lines were drawn settled the Issue.

"The Egyptian defeat deprived the All-Palestine Government of its last and exceedingly tenuous hold on Palestinian soil, forcing it to transfer its seat from Gaza to Cairo. Its weakness was exposed for all to see, its prestige slumped, and its authority was undermined. In Cairo, the Government of All-Palestine gradually fell apart because of its impotence, ending up four years later as a Department of the Arab League. Thereafter, it continued to exist in name only until Egypt's President Gamal Abdel Nasser closed its offices in 1959. SOURCE: Encyclopedia and From Wikipedia ​

The APG was not survivable and did not meet Article 22 prerequisites to be able to stand alone. It have been dissolved for more that half a century. Some considered it defunct when it was absorbed into the Egyptian Government as the "Department of the Arab League."

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[toastman]

montelatici, et al,

Well, this is not exactly accurate and some what exaggerated.

Wow, that's a leap. Let me get this straight. The Zionists did not intend to colonize Palestine because they only colonized a large part of it. Setting aside that they control all of Palestine and the Israeli PM has stated that there will be no Palestinian state, most of Palestine was, in fact colonized. Your dog won't hunt.

(COMMENT)

Some salient points under Mandate:

• Not all Jewish Immigrants were Zionist.
• Jewish immigration was encourage.
• Immigration included all Jews who were willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.
• In co-operation with the Jewish Agency, close settlement by Jews on the land, west of the Jordan River.

Some salient points after Mandate:

• The Jewish Agency completed the UN Steps Preparatory to Independence.
• In 1949 the Gaza Strip came under the administration of the All Palestine Government (dissolved in 1959) controlled by the Egyptian Military Governorship.
• In 1950, the West Bank (Unification of the Two Banks) became sovereign Jordanian Territory.
• On 5 June 1967, hostilities broke out between Israel and Egypt, Jordan and Syria. By the time a ceasefire called for by the Security Council was accepted by the parties, Israeli military forces had occupied the Egyptian Sinai, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank including East Jerusalem, and part of the Syrian Golan Heights.
• 1997 Oslo II - Area C under full Israeli civil and security control. Settlements are subject to permanent status negotiations:
  • By Agreement with the PLO, "the Settlements" means,
    • In the West Bank - the settlements in Area C;
    • and in the Gaza Strip -
    • the Gush Katif and Erez settlement areas

The Israelis never occupied Palestinian Territory; they did occupied Egyptian Governed Territory and Jordanian Sovereign Territory. The Arab Palestinian rejected the opportunity to establish a State (more than once) until 1988, when they finally declared Independence while the territory was already under military occupation; but four months after the Jordanians cut all ties with the West Bank. During the tenure of the Mandate and the and the time since independence, the Jewish Immigrants never never represented a colonial power; no relationships between a colonial power and any Jewish Settlement was established while the territory was under under the Mandate. In fact the Jewish Immigrants were not all from the same country, or even the same continent; and could not represent a single power.

The purpose of the occupation is to extend the protections to the sovereignty and integrity of Israel against an opponent that does not recognize the State of Israel; and holds the political position that the Arab Palestinian is the only legitimate sovereign to the territory that covers the land west of the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. This is the same opponent that has declared Jihad (Holy War), and considers any means necessary to take in the eviction of the State of Israel as legal and legitimate. This threat was made in February 1948, and has appeared in the Islamic Resistance Movement Covenant, the Palestinian Nation Charter, and most recently, the the 2013 Official Position Paper published by the Khaled Mashaal, Political Leader, Islamic Resistance Movement and Unity Government Partner. Given the previous history of past behaviors, and actual response to the 2005 Disengagement from the Gaza Strip, the Occupation of Palestinian territory there is no reason to believe that an agreement to suspend combat (or any formal Peace Agreement) will be honored by the Palestinian Regime; and that the Palestinians have every intention of attacking by surprise the enemy relying on Peace Agreement they conclude. Based on the current position of the Arab Palestinians there is essentially little prospect for a peace agreement that will have any success.

Most Respectfully,
R

Not all Jewish Immigrants were Zionist.​

That is true. The Zionists imported Jews from anywhere to populate their settlements. Most were probably unaware of the colonial project.

The Arab Palestinian rejected the opportunity to establish a State (more than once) until 1988,...​

Not true. Palestine was already a provisional state under mandate and they declared independence in 1948 after the Mandate left Palestine.

No they didn't. Their declaration of independence was in 1988. Stop lying.

Yes they did.

A C.1 330 of 14 October 1948

Obviously it was not a valid declaration since the real one was done in 1988

Google

Nowhere does it show any declaration of independence in 1948. It's basically on existent.

The Palestinian Declaration of Independence is a statement written by Palestinian poet Mahmoud Darwish and proclaimed by Yasser Arafat on 15 November 1988

Legal justification for the declaration was based on United Nations General AssemblyResolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947

 

[toastman]

toastman, Tinmore, et al,

Actually, P F Tinmore is (in part) correct here.

montelatici, et al,

Well, this is not exactly accurate and some what exaggerated.

Wow, that's a leap. Let me get this straight. The Zionists did not intend to colonize Palestine because they only colonized a large part of it. Setting aside that they control all of Palestine and the Israeli PM has stated that there will be no Palestinian state, most of Palestine was, in fact colonized. Your dog won't hunt.

(COMMENT)

Some salient points under Mandate:

• Not all Jewish Immigrants were Zionist.
• Jewish immigration was encourage.
• Immigration included all Jews who were willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.
• In co-operation with the Jewish Agency, close settlement by Jews on the land, west of the Jordan River.

Some salient points after Mandate:

• The Jewish Agency completed the UN Steps Preparatory to Independence.
• In 1949 the Gaza Strip came under the administration of the All Palestine Government (dissolved in 1959) controlled by the Egyptian Military Governorship.
• In 1950, the West Bank (Unification of the Two Banks) became sovereign Jordanian Territory.
• On 5 June 1967, hostilities broke out between Israel and Egypt, Jordan and Syria. By the time a ceasefire called for by the Security Council was accepted by the parties, Israeli military forces had occupied the Egyptian Sinai, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank including East Jerusalem, and part of the Syrian Golan Heights.
• 1997 Oslo II - Area C under full Israeli civil and security control. Settlements are subject to permanent status negotiations:
  • By Agreement with the PLO, "the Settlements" means,
    • In the West Bank - the settlements in Area C;
    • and in the Gaza Strip -
    • the Gush Katif and Erez settlement areas

The Israelis never occupied Palestinian Territory; they did occupied Egyptian Governed Territory and Jordanian Sovereign Territory. The Arab Palestinian rejected the opportunity to establish a State (more than once) until 1988, when they finally declared Independence while the territory was already under military occupation; but four months after the Jordanians cut all ties with the West Bank. During the tenure of the Mandate and the and the time since independence, the Jewish Immigrants never never represented a colonial power; no relationships between a colonial power and any Jewish Settlement was established while the territory was under under the Mandate. In fact the Jewish Immigrants were not all from the same country, or even the same continent; and could not represent a single power.

The purpose of the occupation is to extend the protections to the sovereignty and integrity of Israel against an opponent that does not recognize the State of Israel; and holds the political position that the Arab Palestinian is the only legitimate sovereign to the territory that covers the land west of the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. This is the same opponent that has declared Jihad (Holy War), and considers any means necessary to take in the eviction of the State of Israel as legal and legitimate. This threat was made in February 1948, and has appeared in the Islamic Resistance Movement Covenant, the Palestinian Nation Charter, and most recently, the the 2013 Official Position Paper published by the Khaled Mashaal, Political Leader, Islamic Resistance Movement and Unity Government Partner. Given the previous history of past behaviors, and actual response to the 2005 Disengagement from the Gaza Strip, the Occupation of Palestinian territory there is no reason to believe that an agreement to suspend combat (or any formal Peace Agreement) will be honored by the Palestinian Regime; and that the Palestinians have every intention of attacking by surprise the enemy relying on Peace Agreement they conclude. Based on the current position of the Arab Palestinians there is essentially little prospect for a peace agreement that will have any success.

Most Respectfully,
R

Not all Jewish Immigrants were Zionist.​

That is true. The Zionists imported Jews from anywhere to populate their settlements. Most were probably unaware of the colonial project.

The Arab Palestinian rejected the opportunity to establish a State (more than once) until 1988,...​

Not true. Palestine was already a provisional state under mandate and they declared independence in 1948 after the Mandate left Palestine.

No they didn't. Their declaration of independence was in 1988. Stop lying.

(COMMENT)

The All Palestine Government (APG), established by the Arab League --- in anticipation of an complete Arab Victory in 1948, did announce the independence on 28 September 1948 in a cable (AC.1/330) from AHMED HILMI PASHA, Prime Minister (pro tempore); three months after the State of Israel was declared. The APG made a declaration "DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE." This is the traditional claim that Palestinians hold today as articulated by Khaled Meshaal, (Islamic Resistance Movement Political Leader) in the official position paper: "Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right." Of course the Jewish State and the Arab State cannot declare sovereignty over the same territory at the same time. The dilemma was resolved when the four Armistice Agreements were agreed to by the engaged warring parties. The APG was dissolved by the Egyptian Government in 1959. The West Bank was in Jordanian hands while the Gaza Strip was in officially under APG sovereign hands. The remainder was in Israeli hands. Israel was admitted to the UN and recognized by the General Assembly in Resolution 273 [A/RES/273 (III)] on 11 May 1949.

The end of hostilities and the Armistice arrangements made deliberations on the APG Declaration unnecessary. The forward edge of the battle area (FEBA) along which the Armistice Lines were drawn settled the Issue.

"The Egyptian defeat deprived the All-Palestine Government of its last and exceedingly tenuous hold on Palestinian soil, forcing it to transfer its seat from Gaza to Cairo. Its weakness was exposed for all to see, its prestige slumped, and its authority was undermined. In Cairo, the Government of All-Palestine gradually fell apart because of its impotence, ending up four years later as a department of the Arab League. Thereafter, it continued to exist in name only until Egypt's President Gamal Abdel Nasser closed its offices in 1959. SOURCE: Encyclopedia and From Wikipedia ​

Most Respectfully,
R

In other words, they tried to declare independence on land that Israel already declared independent. They were 3 months too late. Had this DOI been the official one, they would have no reason to do it again in 1988.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

montelatici, et al,

Well, this is not exactly accurate and some what exaggerated.

Wow, that's a leap. Let me get this straight. The Zionists did not intend to colonize Palestine because they only colonized a large part of it. Setting aside that they control all of Palestine and the Israeli PM has stated that there will be no Palestinian state, most of Palestine was, in fact colonized. Your dog won't hunt.

(COMMENT)

Some salient points under Mandate:

• Not all Jewish Immigrants were Zionist.
• Jewish immigration was encourage.
• Immigration included all Jews who were willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.
• In co-operation with the Jewish Agency, close settlement by Jews on the land, west of the Jordan River.

Some salient points after Mandate:

• The Jewish Agency completed the UN Steps Preparatory to Independence.
• In 1949 the Gaza Strip came under the administration of the All Palestine Government (dissolved in 1959) controlled by the Egyptian Military Governorship.
• In 1950, the West Bank (Unification of the Two Banks) became sovereign Jordanian Territory.
• On 5 June 1967, hostilities broke out between Israel and Egypt, Jordan and Syria. By the time a ceasefire called for by the Security Council was accepted by the parties, Israeli military forces had occupied the Egyptian Sinai, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank including East Jerusalem, and part of the Syrian Golan Heights.
• 1997 Oslo II - Area C under full Israeli civil and security control. Settlements are subject to permanent status negotiations:
  • By Agreement with the PLO, "the Settlements" means,
    • In the West Bank - the settlements in Area C;
    • and in the Gaza Strip -
    • the Gush Katif and Erez settlement areas

The Israelis never occupied Palestinian Territory; they did occupied Egyptian Governed Territory and Jordanian Sovereign Territory. The Arab Palestinian rejected the opportunity to establish a State (more than once) until 1988, when they finally declared Independence while the territory was already under military occupation; but four months after the Jordanians cut all ties with the West Bank. During the tenure of the Mandate and the and the time since independence, the Jewish Immigrants never never represented a colonial power; no relationships between a colonial power and any Jewish Settlement was established while the territory was under under the Mandate. In fact the Jewish Immigrants were not all from the same country, or even the same continent; and could not represent a single power.

The purpose of the occupation is to extend the protections to the sovereignty and integrity of Israel against an opponent that does not recognize the State of Israel; and holds the political position that the Arab Palestinian is the only legitimate sovereign to the territory that covers the land west of the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. This is the same opponent that has declared Jihad (Holy War), and considers any means necessary to take in the eviction of the State of Israel as legal and legitimate. This threat was made in February 1948, and has appeared in the Islamic Resistance Movement Covenant, the Palestinian Nation Charter, and most recently, the the 2013 Official Position Paper published by the Khaled Mashaal, Political Leader, Islamic Resistance Movement and Unity Government Partner. Given the previous history of past behaviors, and actual response to the 2005 Disengagement from the Gaza Strip, the Occupation of Palestinian territory there is no reason to believe that an agreement to suspend combat (or any formal Peace Agreement) will be honored by the Palestinian Regime; and that the Palestinians have every intention of attacking by surprise the enemy relying on Peace Agreement they conclude. Based on the current position of the Arab Palestinians there is essentially little prospect for a peace agreement that will have any success.

Most Respectfully,
R

Not all Jewish Immigrants were Zionist.​

That is true. The Zionists imported Jews from anywhere to populate their settlements. Most were probably unaware of the colonial project.

The Arab Palestinian rejected the opportunity to establish a State (more than once) until 1988,...​

Not true. Palestine was already a provisional state under mandate and they declared independence in 1948 after the Mandate left Palestine.

No they didn't. Their declaration of independence was in 1988. Stop lying.

Yes they did.

A C.1 330 of 14 October 1948

Obviously it was not a valid declaration since the real one was done in 1988

Google

Nowhere does it show any declaration of independence in 1948. It's basically on existent.

The Palestinian Declaration of Independence is a statement written by Palestinian poet Mahmoud Darwish and proclaimed by Yasser Arafat on 15 November 1988

Legal justification for the declaration was based on United Nations General AssemblyResolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947

I guess the reason Tinmore objects to the 1988 declaration, is because it only encompasses the West Bank and Gaza. That's not good enough for him. He wants ALL of Israel.

 

[toastman]

montelatici, et al,

Well, this is not exactly accurate and some what exaggerated.

(COMMENT)

Some salient points under Mandate:

• Not all Jewish Immigrants were Zionist.
• Jewish immigration was encourage.
• Immigration included all Jews who were willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.
• In co-operation with the Jewish Agency, close settlement by Jews on the land, west of the Jordan River.

Some salient points after Mandate:

• The Jewish Agency completed the UN Steps Preparatory to Independence.
• In 1949 the Gaza Strip came under the administration of the All Palestine Government (dissolved in 1959) controlled by the Egyptian Military Governorship.
• In 1950, the West Bank (Unification of the Two Banks) became sovereign Jordanian Territory.
• On 5 June 1967, hostilities broke out between Israel and Egypt, Jordan and Syria. By the time a ceasefire called for by the Security Council was accepted by the parties, Israeli military forces had occupied the Egyptian Sinai, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank including East Jerusalem, and part of the Syrian Golan Heights.
• 1997 Oslo II - Area C under full Israeli civil and security control. Settlements are subject to permanent status negotiations:
  • By Agreement with the PLO, "the Settlements" means,
    • In the West Bank - the settlements in Area C;
    • and in the Gaza Strip -
    • the Gush Katif and Erez settlement areas

The Israelis never occupied Palestinian Territory; they did occupied Egyptian Governed Territory and Jordanian Sovereign Territory. The Arab Palestinian rejected the opportunity to establish a State (more than once) until 1988, when they finally declared Independence while the territory was already under military occupation; but four months after the Jordanians cut all ties with the West Bank. During the tenure of the Mandate and the and the time since independence, the Jewish Immigrants never never represented a colonial power; no relationships between a colonial power and any Jewish Settlement was established while the territory was under under the Mandate. In fact the Jewish Immigrants were not all from the same country, or even the same continent; and could not represent a single power.

The purpose of the occupation is to extend the protections to the sovereignty and integrity of Israel against an opponent that does not recognize the State of Israel; and holds the political position that the Arab Palestinian is the only legitimate sovereign to the territory that covers the land west of the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. This is the same opponent that has declared Jihad (Holy War), and considers any means necessary to take in the eviction of the State of Israel as legal and legitimate. This threat was made in February 1948, and has appeared in the Islamic Resistance Movement Covenant, the Palestinian Nation Charter, and most recently, the the 2013 Official Position Paper published by the Khaled Mashaal, Political Leader, Islamic Resistance Movement and Unity Government Partner. Given the previous history of past behaviors, and actual response to the 2005 Disengagement from the Gaza Strip, the Occupation of Palestinian territory there is no reason to believe that an agreement to suspend combat (or any formal Peace Agreement) will be honored by the Palestinian Regime; and that the Palestinians have every intention of attacking by surprise the enemy relying on Peace Agreement they conclude. Based on the current position of the Arab Palestinians there is essentially little prospect for a peace agreement that will have any success.

Most Respectfully,
R

Not all Jewish Immigrants were Zionist.​

That is true. The Zionists imported Jews from anywhere to populate their settlements. Most were probably unaware of the colonial project.

The Arab Palestinian rejected the opportunity to establish a State (more than once) until 1988,...​

Not true. Palestine was already a provisional state under mandate and they declared independence in 1948 after the Mandate left Palestine.

No they didn't. Their declaration of independence was in 1988. Stop lying.

Yes they did.

A C.1 330 of 14 October 1948

Obviously it was not a valid declaration since the real one was done in 1988

Google

Nowhere does it show any declaration of independence in 1948. It's basically on existent.

The Palestinian Declaration of Independence is a statement written by Palestinian poet Mahmoud Darwish and proclaimed by Yasser Arafat on 15 November 1988

Legal justification for the declaration was based on United Nations General AssemblyResolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947

I guess the reason Tinmore objects to the 1988 declaration, is because it only encompasses the West Bank and Gaza. That's not good enough for him. He wants ALL of Israel.

Yes, but whether he objects it or not makes no difference. The state of Palestine is defined as the West Bank and Gaza. That's it, that's all.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

toastman, Tinmore, et al,

Actually, P F Tinmore is (in part) correct here.

montelatici, et al,

Well, this is not exactly accurate and some what exaggerated.

Wow, that's a leap. Let me get this straight. The Zionists did not intend to colonize Palestine because they only colonized a large part of it. Setting aside that they control all of Palestine and the Israeli PM has stated that there will be no Palestinian state, most of Palestine was, in fact colonized. Your dog won't hunt.

(COMMENT)

Some salient points under Mandate:

• Not all Jewish Immigrants were Zionist.
• Jewish immigration was encourage.
• Immigration included all Jews who were willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.
• In co-operation with the Jewish Agency, close settlement by Jews on the land, west of the Jordan River.

Some salient points after Mandate:

• The Jewish Agency completed the UN Steps Preparatory to Independence.
• In 1949 the Gaza Strip came under the administration of the All Palestine Government (dissolved in 1959) controlled by the Egyptian Military Governorship.
• In 1950, the West Bank (Unification of the Two Banks) became sovereign Jordanian Territory.
• On 5 June 1967, hostilities broke out between Israel and Egypt, Jordan and Syria. By the time a ceasefire called for by the Security Council was accepted by the parties, Israeli military forces had occupied the Egyptian Sinai, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank including East Jerusalem, and part of the Syrian Golan Heights.
• 1997 Oslo II - Area C under full Israeli civil and security control. Settlements are subject to permanent status negotiations:
  • By Agreement with the PLO, "the Settlements" means,
    • In the West Bank - the settlements in Area C;
    • and in the Gaza Strip -
    • the Gush Katif and Erez settlement areas

The Israelis never occupied Palestinian Territory; they did occupied Egyptian Governed Territory and Jordanian Sovereign Territory. The Arab Palestinian rejected the opportunity to establish a State (more than once) until 1988, when they finally declared Independence while the territory was already under military occupation; but four months after the Jordanians cut all ties with the West Bank. During the tenure of the Mandate and the and the time since independence, the Jewish Immigrants never never represented a colonial power; no relationships between a colonial power and any Jewish Settlement was established while the territory was under under the Mandate. In fact the Jewish Immigrants were not all from the same country, or even the same continent; and could not represent a single power.

The purpose of the occupation is to extend the protections to the sovereignty and integrity of Israel against an opponent that does not recognize the State of Israel; and holds the political position that the Arab Palestinian is the only legitimate sovereign to the territory that covers the land west of the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. This is the same opponent that has declared Jihad (Holy War), and considers any means necessary to take in the eviction of the State of Israel as legal and legitimate. This threat was made in February 1948, and has appeared in the Islamic Resistance Movement Covenant, the Palestinian Nation Charter, and most recently, the the 2013 Official Position Paper published by the Khaled Mashaal, Political Leader, Islamic Resistance Movement and Unity Government Partner. Given the previous history of past behaviors, and actual response to the 2005 Disengagement from the Gaza Strip, the Occupation of Palestinian territory there is no reason to believe that an agreement to suspend combat (or any formal Peace Agreement) will be honored by the Palestinian Regime; and that the Palestinians have every intention of attacking by surprise the enemy relying on Peace Agreement they conclude. Based on the current position of the Arab Palestinians there is essentially little prospect for a peace agreement that will have any success.

Most Respectfully,
R

Not all Jewish Immigrants were Zionist.​

That is true. The Zionists imported Jews from anywhere to populate their settlements. Most were probably unaware of the colonial project.

The Arab Palestinian rejected the opportunity to establish a State (more than once) until 1988,...​

Not true. Palestine was already a provisional state under mandate and they declared independence in 1948 after the Mandate left Palestine.

No they didn't. Their declaration of independence was in 1988. Stop lying.

(COMMENT)

The All Palestine Government (APG), established by the Arab League --- in anticipation of an complete Arab Victory in 1948, did announce the independence on 28 September 1948 in a cable (AC.1/330) from AHMED HILMI PASHA, Prime Minister (pro tempore); three months after the State of Israel was declared. The APG made a declaration "DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE." This is the traditional claim that Palestinians hold today as articulated by Khaled Meshaal, (Islamic Resistance Movement Political Leader) in the official position paper: "Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right." Of course the Jewish State and the Arab State cannot declare sovereignty over the same territory at the same time. The dilemma was resolved when the four Armistice Agreements were agreed to by the engaged warring parties. The APG was dissolved by the Egyptian Government in 1959. The West Bank was in Jordanian hands while the Gaza Strip was in officially under APG sovereign hands. The remainder was in Israeli hands. Israel was admitted to the UN and recognized by the General Assembly in Resolution 273 [A/RES/273 (III)] on 11 May 1949.

The end of hostilities and the Armistice arrangements made deliberations on the APG Declaration unnecessary. The forward edge of the battle area (FEBA) along which the Armistice Lines were drawn settled the Issue.

"The Egyptian defeat deprived the All-Palestine Government of its last and exceedingly tenuous hold on Palestinian soil, forcing it to transfer its seat from Gaza to Cairo. Its weakness was exposed for all to see, its prestige slumped, and its authority was undermined. In Cairo, the Government of All-Palestine gradually fell apart because of its impotence, ending up four years later as a department of the Arab League. Thereafter, it continued to exist in name only until Egypt's President Gamal Abdel Nasser closed its offices in 1959. SOURCE: Encyclopedia and From Wikipedia ​

Most Respectfully,
R

In other words, they tried to declare independence on land that Israel already declared independent. They were 3 months too late. Had this DOI been the official one, they would have no reason to do it again in 1988.

Also, the 1948 declaration was made by Egypt

 

[P F Tinmore]

toastman, Tinmore, et al,

Actually, P F Tinmore is (in part) correct here.

montelatici, et al,

Well, this is not exactly accurate and some what exaggerated.

Wow, that's a leap. Let me get this straight. The Zionists did not intend to colonize Palestine because they only colonized a large part of it. Setting aside that they control all of Palestine and the Israeli PM has stated that there will be no Palestinian state, most of Palestine was, in fact colonized. Your dog won't hunt.

(COMMENT)

Some salient points under Mandate:

• Not all Jewish Immigrants were Zionist.
• Jewish immigration was encourage.
• Immigration included all Jews who were willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.
• In co-operation with the Jewish Agency, close settlement by Jews on the land, west of the Jordan River.

Some salient points after Mandate:

• The Jewish Agency completed the UN Steps Preparatory to Independence.
• In 1949 the Gaza Strip came under the administration of the All Palestine Government (dissolved in 1959) controlled by the Egyptian Military Governorship.
• In 1950, the West Bank (Unification of the Two Banks) became sovereign Jordanian Territory.
• On 5 June 1967, hostilities broke out between Israel and Egypt, Jordan and Syria. By the time a ceasefire called for by the Security Council was accepted by the parties, Israeli military forces had occupied the Egyptian Sinai, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank including East Jerusalem, and part of the Syrian Golan Heights.
• 1997 Oslo II - Area C under full Israeli civil and security control. Settlements are subject to permanent status negotiations:
  • By Agreement with the PLO, "the Settlements" means,
    • In the West Bank - the settlements in Area C;
    • and in the Gaza Strip -
    • the Gush Katif and Erez settlement areas

The Israelis never occupied Palestinian Territory; they did occupied Egyptian Governed Territory and Jordanian Sovereign Territory. The Arab Palestinian rejected the opportunity to establish a State (more than once) until 1988, when they finally declared Independence while the territory was already under military occupation; but four months after the Jordanians cut all ties with the West Bank. During the tenure of the Mandate and the and the time since independence, the Jewish Immigrants never never represented a colonial power; no relationships between a colonial power and any Jewish Settlement was established while the territory was under under the Mandate. In fact the Jewish Immigrants were not all from the same country, or even the same continent; and could not represent a single power.

The purpose of the occupation is to extend the protections to the sovereignty and integrity of Israel against an opponent that does not recognize the State of Israel; and holds the political position that the Arab Palestinian is the only legitimate sovereign to the territory that covers the land west of the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. This is the same opponent that has declared Jihad (Holy War), and considers any means necessary to take in the eviction of the State of Israel as legal and legitimate. This threat was made in February 1948, and has appeared in the Islamic Resistance Movement Covenant, the Palestinian Nation Charter, and most recently, the the 2013 Official Position Paper published by the Khaled Mashaal, Political Leader, Islamic Resistance Movement and Unity Government Partner. Given the previous history of past behaviors, and actual response to the 2005 Disengagement from the Gaza Strip, the Occupation of Palestinian territory there is no reason to believe that an agreement to suspend combat (or any formal Peace Agreement) will be honored by the Palestinian Regime; and that the Palestinians have every intention of attacking by surprise the enemy relying on Peace Agreement they conclude. Based on the current position of the Arab Palestinians there is essentially little prospect for a peace agreement that will have any success.

Most Respectfully,
R

Not all Jewish Immigrants were Zionist.​

That is true. The Zionists imported Jews from anywhere to populate their settlements. Most were probably unaware of the colonial project.

The Arab Palestinian rejected the opportunity to establish a State (more than once) until 1988,...​

Not true. Palestine was already a provisional state under mandate and they declared independence in 1948 after the Mandate left Palestine.

No they didn't. Their declaration of independence was in 1988. Stop lying.

(COMMENT)

The All Palestine Government (APG), established by the Arab League --- in anticipation of an complete Arab Victory in 1948, did announce the independence on 28 September 1948 in a cable (AC.1/330) from AHMED HILMI PASHA, Prime Minister (pro tempore); three months after the State of Israel was declared. The APG made a declaration "DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE." This is the traditional claim that Palestinians hold today as articulated by Khaled Meshaal, (Islamic Resistance Movement Political Leader) in the official position paper: "Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right." Of course the Jewish State and the Arab State cannot declare sovereignty over the same territory at the same time. The dilemma was resolved when the four Armistice Agreements were agreed to by the engaged warring parties. The APG was dissolved by the Egyptian Government in 1959. The West Bank was in Jordanian hands while the Gaza Strip was in officially under APG sovereign hands. The remainder was in Israeli hands. Israel was admitted to the UN and recognized by the General Assembly in Resolution 273 [A/RES/273 (III)] on 11 May 1949.

The end of hostilities and the Armistice arrangements made deliberations on the APG Declaration unnecessary. The forward edge of the battle area (FEBA) along which the Armistice Lines were drawn settled the Issue.

"The Egyptian defeat deprived the All-Palestine Government of its last and exceedingly tenuous hold on Palestinian soil, forcing it to transfer its seat from Gaza to Cairo. Its weakness was exposed for all to see, its prestige slumped, and its authority was undermined. In Cairo, the Government of All-Palestine gradually fell apart because of its impotence, ending up four years later as a department of the Arab League. Thereafter, it continued to exist in name only until Egypt's President Gamal Abdel Nasser closed its offices in 1959. SOURCE: Encyclopedia and From Wikipedia ​

Most Respectfully,
R

Of course the Jewish State and the Arab State cannot declare sovereignty over the same territory at the same time.​

That is true. The Palestinians defined their territory inside their own international borders.

What territory did Israel define in its declaration? Where were its defined borders?

 

[toastman]

why did they withdraw their settlers and troops from Gaza?

Money!

Israel did not annex the West Bank

And East Jerusalem

settlements could potentially be dismantled in a future deal

Will NEVER happen!

Israel could colonize all of Palestine if they wanted, but instead they have tried to make peace with the Palestinians

Best joke of the day so far!

Why is it a joke? Look at the peace deals offered to the Palestinian for peace. More specifically the ones in 2000 and 2008.

Had Arafart accepted it in 2000, the Palestinians would have an independent state in 97% of the West Bank and Gaza and there would be peace. But they want East Jerusalem (ya, right !) and right of return (hahahaha).

 

[rylah]

So in other words you don't have a link, figures. And you don't have the mental capacity to work that one out.

Nor work out that you are having a major hissy fit and meltdown

Link has been provided...

Step away from the computer, put your flat cap on and take your whippets for a nice walk, there's a good Phoney!

So in other words you don't have a link, figures. And you don't have the mental capacity to work that one out.

Nor work out that you are having a major hissy fit and meltdown

Phoney you have to be the dumbest person on this board!

Repeating the same BS over and over when it is clear to EVERYONE that a link HAS been provided and you simply do not want to accept that you are an idiot!

Go let your racing pigeons out and have a wonderful Yorkshire day!

Then it would be the easiest thing to post that link again (10 sec work duh)
and shut him up right?

Then why do You reserve to name calling and using crowd mentality
as an argument?

Link HAS been posted...Why would I want to waste 10 sec of my life on a dumbass who can't be bothered to look for the original duh!

So You have those 10 to call names but not to show us again Your link??

So common

 

[P F Tinmore]

montelatici, et al,

Well, this is not exactly accurate and some what exaggerated.

Wow, that's a leap. Let me get this straight. The Zionists did not intend to colonize Palestine because they only colonized a large part of it. Setting aside that they control all of Palestine and the Israeli PM has stated that there will be no Palestinian state, most of Palestine was, in fact colonized. Your dog won't hunt.

(COMMENT)

Some salient points under Mandate:

• Not all Jewish Immigrants were Zionist.
• Jewish immigration was encourage.
• Immigration included all Jews who were willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.
• In co-operation with the Jewish Agency, close settlement by Jews on the land, west of the Jordan River.

Some salient points after Mandate:

• The Jewish Agency completed the UN Steps Preparatory to Independence.
• In 1949 the Gaza Strip came under the administration of the All Palestine Government (dissolved in 1959) controlled by the Egyptian Military Governorship.
• In 1950, the West Bank (Unification of the Two Banks) became sovereign Jordanian Territory.
• On 5 June 1967, hostilities broke out between Israel and Egypt, Jordan and Syria. By the time a ceasefire called for by the Security Council was accepted by the parties, Israeli military forces had occupied the Egyptian Sinai, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank including East Jerusalem, and part of the Syrian Golan Heights.
• 1997 Oslo II - Area C under full Israeli civil and security control. Settlements are subject to permanent status negotiations:
  • By Agreement with the PLO, "the Settlements" means,
    • In the West Bank - the settlements in Area C;
    • and in the Gaza Strip -
    • the Gush Katif and Erez settlement areas

The Israelis never occupied Palestinian Territory; they did occupied Egyptian Governed Territory and Jordanian Sovereign Territory. The Arab Palestinian rejected the opportunity to establish a State (more than once) until 1988, when they finally declared Independence while the territory was already under military occupation; but four months after the Jordanians cut all ties with the West Bank. During the tenure of the Mandate and the and the time since independence, the Jewish Immigrants never never represented a colonial power; no relationships between a colonial power and any Jewish Settlement was established while the territory was under under the Mandate. In fact the Jewish Immigrants were not all from the same country, or even the same continent; and could not represent a single power.

The purpose of the occupation is to extend the protections to the sovereignty and integrity of Israel against an opponent that does not recognize the State of Israel; and holds the political position that the Arab Palestinian is the only legitimate sovereign to the territory that covers the land west of the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. This is the same opponent that has declared Jihad (Holy War), and considers any means necessary to take in the eviction of the State of Israel as legal and legitimate. This threat was made in February 1948, and has appeared in the Islamic Resistance Movement Covenant, the Palestinian Nation Charter, and most recently, the the 2013 Official Position Paper published by the Khaled Mashaal, Political Leader, Islamic Resistance Movement and Unity Government Partner. Given the previous history of past behaviors, and actual response to the 2005 Disengagement from the Gaza Strip, the Occupation of Palestinian territory there is no reason to believe that an agreement to suspend combat (or any formal Peace Agreement) will be honored by the Palestinian Regime; and that the Palestinians have every intention of attacking by surprise the enemy relying on Peace Agreement they conclude. Based on the current position of the Arab Palestinians there is essentially little prospect for a peace agreement that will have any success.

Most Respectfully,
R

Not all Jewish Immigrants were Zionist.​

That is true. The Zionists imported Jews from anywhere to populate their settlements. Most were probably unaware of the colonial project.

The Arab Palestinian rejected the opportunity to establish a State (more than once) until 1988,...​

Not true. Palestine was already a provisional state under mandate and they declared independence in 1948 after the Mandate left Palestine.

No they didn't. Their declaration of independence was in 1988. Stop lying.

Yes they did.

A C.1 330 of 14 October 1948

Obviously it was not a valid declaration since the real one was done in 1988

Google

Nowhere does it show any declaration of independence in 1948. It's basically on existent.

The Palestinian Declaration of Independence is a statement written by Palestinian poet Mahmoud Darwish and proclaimed by Yasser Arafat on 15 November 1988

Legal justification for the declaration was based on United Nations General AssemblyResolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947

From your link.

The partition plan was not implemented.[11]

There was no resolution 181. It was a non binding plan that did not happen.

 

[toastman]

toastman, Tinmore, et al,

Actually, P F Tinmore is (in part) correct here.

montelatici, et al,

Well, this is not exactly accurate and some what exaggerated.

Wow, that's a leap. Let me get this straight. The Zionists did not intend to colonize Palestine because they only colonized a large part of it. Setting aside that they control all of Palestine and the Israeli PM has stated that there will be no Palestinian state, most of Palestine was, in fact colonized. Your dog won't hunt.

(COMMENT)

Some salient points under Mandate:

• Not all Jewish Immigrants were Zionist.
• Jewish immigration was encourage.
• Immigration included all Jews who were willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.
• In co-operation with the Jewish Agency, close settlement by Jews on the land, west of the Jordan River.

Some salient points after Mandate:

• The Jewish Agency completed the UN Steps Preparatory to Independence.
• In 1949 the Gaza Strip came under the administration of the All Palestine Government (dissolved in 1959) controlled by the Egyptian Military Governorship.
• In 1950, the West Bank (Unification of the Two Banks) became sovereign Jordanian Territory.
• On 5 June 1967, hostilities broke out between Israel and Egypt, Jordan and Syria. By the time a ceasefire called for by the Security Council was accepted by the parties, Israeli military forces had occupied the Egyptian Sinai, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank including East Jerusalem, and part of the Syrian Golan Heights.
• 1997 Oslo II - Area C under full Israeli civil and security control. Settlements are subject to permanent status negotiations:
  • By Agreement with the PLO, "the Settlements" means,
    • In the West Bank - the settlements in Area C;
    • and in the Gaza Strip -
    • the Gush Katif and Erez settlement areas

The Israelis never occupied Palestinian Territory; they did occupied Egyptian Governed Territory and Jordanian Sovereign Territory. The Arab Palestinian rejected the opportunity to establish a State (more than once) until 1988, when they finally declared Independence while the territory was already under military occupation; but four months after the Jordanians cut all ties with the West Bank. During the tenure of the Mandate and the and the time since independence, the Jewish Immigrants never never represented a colonial power; no relationships between a colonial power and any Jewish Settlement was established while the territory was under under the Mandate. In fact the Jewish Immigrants were not all from the same country, or even the same continent; and could not represent a single power.

The purpose of the occupation is to extend the protections to the sovereignty and integrity of Israel against an opponent that does not recognize the State of Israel; and holds the political position that the Arab Palestinian is the only legitimate sovereign to the territory that covers the land west of the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. This is the same opponent that has declared Jihad (Holy War), and considers any means necessary to take in the eviction of the State of Israel as legal and legitimate. This threat was made in February 1948, and has appeared in the Islamic Resistance Movement Covenant, the Palestinian Nation Charter, and most recently, the the 2013 Official Position Paper published by the Khaled Mashaal, Political Leader, Islamic Resistance Movement and Unity Government Partner. Given the previous history of past behaviors, and actual response to the 2005 Disengagement from the Gaza Strip, the Occupation of Palestinian territory there is no reason to believe that an agreement to suspend combat (or any formal Peace Agreement) will be honored by the Palestinian Regime; and that the Palestinians have every intention of attacking by surprise the enemy relying on Peace Agreement they conclude. Based on the current position of the Arab Palestinians there is essentially little prospect for a peace agreement that will have any success.

Most Respectfully,
R

Not all Jewish Immigrants were Zionist.​

That is true. The Zionists imported Jews from anywhere to populate their settlements. Most were probably unaware of the colonial project.

The Arab Palestinian rejected the opportunity to establish a State (more than once) until 1988,...​

Not true. Palestine was already a provisional state under mandate and they declared independence in 1948 after the Mandate left Palestine.

No they didn't. Their declaration of independence was in 1988. Stop lying.

(COMMENT)

The All Palestine Government (APG), established by the Arab League --- in anticipation of an complete Arab Victory in 1948, did announce the independence on 28 September 1948 in a cable (AC.1/330) from AHMED HILMI PASHA, Prime Minister (pro tempore); three months after the State of Israel was declared. The APG made a declaration "DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE." This is the traditional claim that Palestinians hold today as articulated by Khaled Meshaal, (Islamic Resistance Movement Political Leader) in the official position paper: "Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right." Of course the Jewish State and the Arab State cannot declare sovereignty over the same territory at the same time. The dilemma was resolved when the four Armistice Agreements were agreed to by the engaged warring parties. The APG was dissolved by the Egyptian Government in 1959. The West Bank was in Jordanian hands while the Gaza Strip was in officially under APG sovereign hands. The remainder was in Israeli hands. Israel was admitted to the UN and recognized by the General Assembly in Resolution 273 [A/RES/273 (III)] on 11 May 1949.

The end of hostilities and the Armistice arrangements made deliberations on the APG Declaration unnecessary. The forward edge of the battle area (FEBA) along which the Armistice Lines were drawn settled the Issue.

"The Egyptian defeat deprived the All-Palestine Government of its last and exceedingly tenuous hold on Palestinian soil, forcing it to transfer its seat from Gaza to Cairo. Its weakness was exposed for all to see, its prestige slumped, and its authority was undermined. In Cairo, the Government of All-Palestine gradually fell apart because of its impotence, ending up four years later as a department of the Arab League. Thereafter, it continued to exist in name only until Egypt's President Gamal Abdel Nasser closed its offices in 1959. SOURCE: Encyclopedia and From Wikipedia ​

Most Respectfully,
R

Of course the Jewish State and the Arab State cannot declare sovereignty over the same territory at the same time.

That is true. The Palestinians defined their territory inside their own international borders.

What territory did Israel define in its declaration? Where were its defined borders?

Palestine did not have any international borders. Just because they lived on the land, doesn't mean it was sovereign Palestinian territory.

Israel declared independence on land allotted to it by the partition plan and is now a sovereign state. Deal with it. No amount of lying is going to change it.

 

[toastman]

montelatici, et al,

Well, this is not exactly accurate and some what exaggerated.

(COMMENT)

Some salient points under Mandate:

• Not all Jewish Immigrants were Zionist.
• Jewish immigration was encourage.
• Immigration included all Jews who were willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.
• In co-operation with the Jewish Agency, close settlement by Jews on the land, west of the Jordan River.

Some salient points after Mandate:

• The Jewish Agency completed the UN Steps Preparatory to Independence.
• In 1949 the Gaza Strip came under the administration of the All Palestine Government (dissolved in 1959) controlled by the Egyptian Military Governorship.
• In 1950, the West Bank (Unification of the Two Banks) became sovereign Jordanian Territory.
• On 5 June 1967, hostilities broke out between Israel and Egypt, Jordan and Syria. By the time a ceasefire called for by the Security Council was accepted by the parties, Israeli military forces had occupied the Egyptian Sinai, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank including East Jerusalem, and part of the Syrian Golan Heights.
• 1997 Oslo II - Area C under full Israeli civil and security control. Settlements are subject to permanent status negotiations:
  • By Agreement with the PLO, "the Settlements" means,
    • In the West Bank - the settlements in Area C;
    • and in the Gaza Strip -
    • the Gush Katif and Erez settlement areas

The Israelis never occupied Palestinian Territory; they did occupied Egyptian Governed Territory and Jordanian Sovereign Territory. The Arab Palestinian rejected the opportunity to establish a State (more than once) until 1988, when they finally declared Independence while the territory was already under military occupation; but four months after the Jordanians cut all ties with the West Bank. During the tenure of the Mandate and the and the time since independence, the Jewish Immigrants never never represented a colonial power; no relationships between a colonial power and any Jewish Settlement was established while the territory was under under the Mandate. In fact the Jewish Immigrants were not all from the same country, or even the same continent; and could not represent a single power.

The purpose of the occupation is to extend the protections to the sovereignty and integrity of Israel against an opponent that does not recognize the State of Israel; and holds the political position that the Arab Palestinian is the only legitimate sovereign to the territory that covers the land west of the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. This is the same opponent that has declared Jihad (Holy War), and considers any means necessary to take in the eviction of the State of Israel as legal and legitimate. This threat was made in February 1948, and has appeared in the Islamic Resistance Movement Covenant, the Palestinian Nation Charter, and most recently, the the 2013 Official Position Paper published by the Khaled Mashaal, Political Leader, Islamic Resistance Movement and Unity Government Partner. Given the previous history of past behaviors, and actual response to the 2005 Disengagement from the Gaza Strip, the Occupation of Palestinian territory there is no reason to believe that an agreement to suspend combat (or any formal Peace Agreement) will be honored by the Palestinian Regime; and that the Palestinians have every intention of attacking by surprise the enemy relying on Peace Agreement they conclude. Based on the current position of the Arab Palestinians there is essentially little prospect for a peace agreement that will have any success.

Most Respectfully,
R

Not all Jewish Immigrants were Zionist.​

That is true. The Zionists imported Jews from anywhere to populate their settlements. Most were probably unaware of the colonial project.

The Arab Palestinian rejected the opportunity to establish a State (more than once) until 1988,...​

Not true. Palestine was already a provisional state under mandate and they declared independence in 1948 after the Mandate left Palestine.

No they didn't. Their declaration of independence was in 1988. Stop lying.

Yes they did.

A C.1 330 of 14 October 1948

Obviously it was not a valid declaration since the real one was done in 1988

Google

Nowhere does it show any declaration of independence in 1948. It's basically on existent.

The Palestinian Declaration of Independence is a statement written by Palestinian poet Mahmoud Darwish and proclaimed by Yasser Arafat on 15 November 1988

Legal justification for the declaration was based on United Nations General AssemblyResolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947

From your link.

The partition plan was not implemented.[11]

There was no resolution 181. It was a non binding plan that did not happen.

Where in my link does it say that??

 

[P F Tinmore]

toastman, Tinmore, et al,

Actually, P F Tinmore is (in part) correct here.

montelatici, et al,

Well, this is not exactly accurate and some what exaggerated.

(COMMENT)

Some salient points under Mandate:

• Not all Jewish Immigrants were Zionist.
• Jewish immigration was encourage.
• Immigration included all Jews who were willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.
• In co-operation with the Jewish Agency, close settlement by Jews on the land, west of the Jordan River.

Some salient points after Mandate:

• The Jewish Agency completed the UN Steps Preparatory to Independence.
• In 1949 the Gaza Strip came under the administration of the All Palestine Government (dissolved in 1959) controlled by the Egyptian Military Governorship.
• In 1950, the West Bank (Unification of the Two Banks) became sovereign Jordanian Territory.
• On 5 June 1967, hostilities broke out between Israel and Egypt, Jordan and Syria. By the time a ceasefire called for by the Security Council was accepted by the parties, Israeli military forces had occupied the Egyptian Sinai, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank including East Jerusalem, and part of the Syrian Golan Heights.
• 1997 Oslo II - Area C under full Israeli civil and security control. Settlements are subject to permanent status negotiations:
  • By Agreement with the PLO, "the Settlements" means,
    • In the West Bank - the settlements in Area C;
    • and in the Gaza Strip -
    • the Gush Katif and Erez settlement areas

The Israelis never occupied Palestinian Territory; they did occupied Egyptian Governed Territory and Jordanian Sovereign Territory. The Arab Palestinian rejected the opportunity to establish a State (more than once) until 1988, when they finally declared Independence while the territory was already under military occupation; but four months after the Jordanians cut all ties with the West Bank. During the tenure of the Mandate and the and the time since independence, the Jewish Immigrants never never represented a colonial power; no relationships between a colonial power and any Jewish Settlement was established while the territory was under under the Mandate. In fact the Jewish Immigrants were not all from the same country, or even the same continent; and could not represent a single power.

The purpose of the occupation is to extend the protections to the sovereignty and integrity of Israel against an opponent that does not recognize the State of Israel; and holds the political position that the Arab Palestinian is the only legitimate sovereign to the territory that covers the land west of the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. This is the same opponent that has declared Jihad (Holy War), and considers any means necessary to take in the eviction of the State of Israel as legal and legitimate. This threat was made in February 1948, and has appeared in the Islamic Resistance Movement Covenant, the Palestinian Nation Charter, and most recently, the the 2013 Official Position Paper published by the Khaled Mashaal, Political Leader, Islamic Resistance Movement and Unity Government Partner. Given the previous history of past behaviors, and actual response to the 2005 Disengagement from the Gaza Strip, the Occupation of Palestinian territory there is no reason to believe that an agreement to suspend combat (or any formal Peace Agreement) will be honored by the Palestinian Regime; and that the Palestinians have every intention of attacking by surprise the enemy relying on Peace Agreement they conclude. Based on the current position of the Arab Palestinians there is essentially little prospect for a peace agreement that will have any success.

Most Respectfully,
R

Not all Jewish Immigrants were Zionist.​

That is true. The Zionists imported Jews from anywhere to populate their settlements. Most were probably unaware of the colonial project.

The Arab Palestinian rejected the opportunity to establish a State (more than once) until 1988,...​

Not true. Palestine was already a provisional state under mandate and they declared independence in 1948 after the Mandate left Palestine.

No they didn't. Their declaration of independence was in 1988. Stop lying.

(COMMENT)

The All Palestine Government (APG), established by the Arab League --- in anticipation of an complete Arab Victory in 1948, did announce the independence on 28 September 1948 in a cable (AC.1/330) from AHMED HILMI PASHA, Prime Minister (pro tempore); three months after the State of Israel was declared. The APG made a declaration "DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE." This is the traditional claim that Palestinians hold today as articulated by Khaled Meshaal, (Islamic Resistance Movement Political Leader) in the official position paper: "Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right." Of course the Jewish State and the Arab State cannot declare sovereignty over the same territory at the same time. The dilemma was resolved when the four Armistice Agreements were agreed to by the engaged warring parties. The APG was dissolved by the Egyptian Government in 1959. The West Bank was in Jordanian hands while the Gaza Strip was in officially under APG sovereign hands. The remainder was in Israeli hands. Israel was admitted to the UN and recognized by the General Assembly in Resolution 273 [A/RES/273 (III)] on 11 May 1949.

The end of hostilities and the Armistice arrangements made deliberations on the APG Declaration unnecessary. The forward edge of the battle area (FEBA) along which the Armistice Lines were drawn settled the Issue.

"The Egyptian defeat deprived the All-Palestine Government of its last and exceedingly tenuous hold on Palestinian soil, forcing it to transfer its seat from Gaza to Cairo. Its weakness was exposed for all to see, its prestige slumped, and its authority was undermined. In Cairo, the Government of All-Palestine gradually fell apart because of its impotence, ending up four years later as a department of the Arab League. Thereafter, it continued to exist in name only until Egypt's President Gamal Abdel Nasser closed its offices in 1959. SOURCE: Encyclopedia and From Wikipedia ​

Most Respectfully,
R

Of course the Jewish State and the Arab State cannot declare sovereignty over the same territory at the same time.

That is true. The Palestinians defined their territory inside their own international borders.

What territory did Israel define in its declaration? Where were its defined borders?

Palestine did not have any international borders. Just because they lived on the land, doesn't mean it was sovereign Palestinian territory.

Israel declared independence on land allotted to it by the partition plan and is now a sovereign state. Deal with it. No amount of lying is going to change it.

When did Israel declare the partition plan borders?

 

[P F Tinmore]

toastman, Tinmore, et al,

Actually, P F Tinmore is (in part) correct here.

montelatici, et al,

Well, this is not exactly accurate and some what exaggerated.

(COMMENT)

Some salient points under Mandate:

• Not all Jewish Immigrants were Zionist.
• Jewish immigration was encourage.
• Immigration included all Jews who were willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.
• In co-operation with the Jewish Agency, close settlement by Jews on the land, west of the Jordan River.

Some salient points after Mandate:

• The Jewish Agency completed the UN Steps Preparatory to Independence.
• In 1949 the Gaza Strip came under the administration of the All Palestine Government (dissolved in 1959) controlled by the Egyptian Military Governorship.
• In 1950, the West Bank (Unification of the Two Banks) became sovereign Jordanian Territory.
• On 5 June 1967, hostilities broke out between Israel and Egypt, Jordan and Syria. By the time a ceasefire called for by the Security Council was accepted by the parties, Israeli military forces had occupied the Egyptian Sinai, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank including East Jerusalem, and part of the Syrian Golan Heights.
• 1997 Oslo II - Area C under full Israeli civil and security control. Settlements are subject to permanent status negotiations:
  • By Agreement with the PLO, "the Settlements" means,
    • In the West Bank - the settlements in Area C;
    • and in the Gaza Strip -
    • the Gush Katif and Erez settlement areas

The Israelis never occupied Palestinian Territory; they did occupied Egyptian Governed Territory and Jordanian Sovereign Territory. The Arab Palestinian rejected the opportunity to establish a State (more than once) until 1988, when they finally declared Independence while the territory was already under military occupation; but four months after the Jordanians cut all ties with the West Bank. During the tenure of the Mandate and the and the time since independence, the Jewish Immigrants never never represented a colonial power; no relationships between a colonial power and any Jewish Settlement was established while the territory was under under the Mandate. In fact the Jewish Immigrants were not all from the same country, or even the same continent; and could not represent a single power.

The purpose of the occupation is to extend the protections to the sovereignty and integrity of Israel against an opponent that does not recognize the State of Israel; and holds the political position that the Arab Palestinian is the only legitimate sovereign to the territory that covers the land west of the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. This is the same opponent that has declared Jihad (Holy War), and considers any means necessary to take in the eviction of the State of Israel as legal and legitimate. This threat was made in February 1948, and has appeared in the Islamic Resistance Movement Covenant, the Palestinian Nation Charter, and most recently, the the 2013 Official Position Paper published by the Khaled Mashaal, Political Leader, Islamic Resistance Movement and Unity Government Partner. Given the previous history of past behaviors, and actual response to the 2005 Disengagement from the Gaza Strip, the Occupation of Palestinian territory there is no reason to believe that an agreement to suspend combat (or any formal Peace Agreement) will be honored by the Palestinian Regime; and that the Palestinians have every intention of attacking by surprise the enemy relying on Peace Agreement they conclude. Based on the current position of the Arab Palestinians there is essentially little prospect for a peace agreement that will have any success.

Most Respectfully,
R

Not all Jewish Immigrants were Zionist.​

That is true. The Zionists imported Jews from anywhere to populate their settlements. Most were probably unaware of the colonial project.

The Arab Palestinian rejected the opportunity to establish a State (more than once) until 1988,...​

Not true. Palestine was already a provisional state under mandate and they declared independence in 1948 after the Mandate left Palestine.

No they didn't. Their declaration of independence was in 1988. Stop lying.

(COMMENT)

The All Palestine Government (APG), established by the Arab League --- in anticipation of an complete Arab Victory in 1948, did announce the independence on 28 September 1948 in a cable (AC.1/330) from AHMED HILMI PASHA, Prime Minister (pro tempore); three months after the State of Israel was declared. The APG made a declaration "DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE." This is the traditional claim that Palestinians hold today as articulated by Khaled Meshaal, (Islamic Resistance Movement Political Leader) in the official position paper: "Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right." Of course the Jewish State and the Arab State cannot declare sovereignty over the same territory at the same time. The dilemma was resolved when the four Armistice Agreements were agreed to by the engaged warring parties. The APG was dissolved by the Egyptian Government in 1959. The West Bank was in Jordanian hands while the Gaza Strip was in officially under APG sovereign hands. The remainder was in Israeli hands. Israel was admitted to the UN and recognized by the General Assembly in Resolution 273 [A/RES/273 (III)] on 11 May 1949.

The end of hostilities and the Armistice arrangements made deliberations on the APG Declaration unnecessary. The forward edge of the battle area (FEBA) along which the Armistice Lines were drawn settled the Issue.

"The Egyptian defeat deprived the All-Palestine Government of its last and exceedingly tenuous hold on Palestinian soil, forcing it to transfer its seat from Gaza to Cairo. Its weakness was exposed for all to see, its prestige slumped, and its authority was undermined. In Cairo, the Government of All-Palestine gradually fell apart because of its impotence, ending up four years later as a department of the Arab League. Thereafter, it continued to exist in name only until Egypt's President Gamal Abdel Nasser closed its offices in 1959. SOURCE: Encyclopedia and From Wikipedia ​

Most Respectfully,
R

Of course the Jewish State and the Arab State cannot declare sovereignty over the same territory at the same time.

That is true. The Palestinians defined their territory inside their own international borders.

What territory did Israel define in its declaration? Where were its defined borders?

Palestine did not have any international borders. Just because they lived on the land, doesn't mean it was sovereign Palestinian territory.

Israel declared independence on land allotted to it by the partition plan and is now a sovereign state. Deal with it. No amount of lying is going to change it.

Palestine did not have any international borders.​

Who told you that?

Link?

 

[rylah]

While You guys are numbed by some legal fictions/terms a real religious war is taking place.

While some try to persecute "war criminals" in high-society manner of international courts,
muslims use Your willingness to mess up in those legal terms in arguments that take years,
while they have no respect for any other law than sharia.

The conflict can't be explained in some western terms that are easy for You to grasp.
You're bound to argue on legal terms while it has no connection to the ME lexicon and moral.

While millions try fanatically to annihilate the Jews You try to put it in a box that fits You
conveniently.

I wonder how many of You have any real-life connection to what's going on.
My opinion is You're driven by Your egos while the currency of the argument is foreign to most of You.

 

[toastman]

toastman, Tinmore, et al,

Actually, P F Tinmore is (in part) correct here.

Not all Jewish Immigrants were Zionist.​

That is true. The Zionists imported Jews from anywhere to populate their settlements. Most were probably unaware of the colonial project.

The Arab Palestinian rejected the opportunity to establish a State (more than once) until 1988,...​

Not true. Palestine was already a provisional state under mandate and they declared independence in 1948 after the Mandate left Palestine.

No they didn't. Their declaration of independence was in 1988. Stop lying.

(COMMENT)

The All Palestine Government (APG), established by the Arab League --- in anticipation of an complete Arab Victory in 1948, did announce the independence on 28 September 1948 in a cable (AC.1/330) from AHMED HILMI PASHA, Prime Minister (pro tempore); three months after the State of Israel was declared. The APG made a declaration "DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE." This is the traditional claim that Palestinians hold today as articulated by Khaled Meshaal, (Islamic Resistance Movement Political Leader) in the official position paper: "Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right." Of course the Jewish State and the Arab State cannot declare sovereignty over the same territory at the same time. The dilemma was resolved when the four Armistice Agreements were agreed to by the engaged warring parties. The APG was dissolved by the Egyptian Government in 1959. The West Bank was in Jordanian hands while the Gaza Strip was in officially under APG sovereign hands. The remainder was in Israeli hands. Israel was admitted to the UN and recognized by the General Assembly in Resolution 273 [A/RES/273 (III)] on 11 May 1949.

The end of hostilities and the Armistice arrangements made deliberations on the APG Declaration unnecessary. The forward edge of the battle area (FEBA) along which the Armistice Lines were drawn settled the Issue.

"The Egyptian defeat deprived the All-Palestine Government of its last and exceedingly tenuous hold on Palestinian soil, forcing it to transfer its seat from Gaza to Cairo. Its weakness was exposed for all to see, its prestige slumped, and its authority was undermined. In Cairo, the Government of All-Palestine gradually fell apart because of its impotence, ending up four years later as a department of the Arab League. Thereafter, it continued to exist in name only until Egypt's President Gamal Abdel Nasser closed its offices in 1959. SOURCE: Encyclopedia and From Wikipedia ​

Most Respectfully,
R

Of course the Jewish State and the Arab State cannot declare sovereignty over the same territory at the same time.

That is true. The Palestinians defined their territory inside their own international borders.

What territory did Israel define in its declaration? Where were its defined borders?

Palestine did not have any international borders. Just because they lived on the land, doesn't mean it was sovereign Palestinian territory.

Israel declared independence on land allotted to it by the partition plan and is now a sovereign state. Deal with it. No amount of lying is going to change it.

Palestine did not have any international borders.​

Who told you that?

Link?

I've asked you 100 times to prove that they had international borders. You got nothing. Now you're asking me to prove a negative?