Explanation of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[toastman]

toastman, Tinmore, et al,

Actually, P F Tinmore is (in part) correct here.

Not all Jewish Immigrants were Zionist.​

That is true. The Zionists imported Jews from anywhere to populate their settlements. Most were probably unaware of the colonial project.

The Arab Palestinian rejected the opportunity to establish a State (more than once) until 1988,...​

Not true. Palestine was already a provisional state under mandate and they declared independence in 1948 after the Mandate left Palestine.

No they didn't. Their declaration of independence was in 1988. Stop lying.

(COMMENT)

The All Palestine Government (APG), established by the Arab League --- in anticipation of an complete Arab Victory in 1948, did announce the independence on 28 September 1948 in a cable (AC.1/330) from AHMED HILMI PASHA, Prime Minister (pro tempore); three months after the State of Israel was declared. The APG made a declaration "DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE." This is the traditional claim that Palestinians hold today as articulated by Khaled Meshaal, (Islamic Resistance Movement Political Leader) in the official position paper: "Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right." Of course the Jewish State and the Arab State cannot declare sovereignty over the same territory at the same time. The dilemma was resolved when the four Armistice Agreements were agreed to by the engaged warring parties. The APG was dissolved by the Egyptian Government in 1959. The West Bank was in Jordanian hands while the Gaza Strip was in officially under APG sovereign hands. The remainder was in Israeli hands. Israel was admitted to the UN and recognized by the General Assembly in Resolution 273 [A/RES/273 (III)] on 11 May 1949.

The end of hostilities and the Armistice arrangements made deliberations on the APG Declaration unnecessary. The forward edge of the battle area (FEBA) along which the Armistice Lines were drawn settled the Issue.

"The Egyptian defeat deprived the All-Palestine Government of its last and exceedingly tenuous hold on Palestinian soil, forcing it to transfer its seat from Gaza to Cairo. Its weakness was exposed for all to see, its prestige slumped, and its authority was undermined. In Cairo, the Government of All-Palestine gradually fell apart because of its impotence, ending up four years later as a department of the Arab League. Thereafter, it continued to exist in name only until Egypt's President Gamal Abdel Nasser closed its offices in 1959. SOURCE: Encyclopedia and From Wikipedia ​

Most Respectfully,
R

Of course the Jewish State and the Arab State cannot declare sovereignty over the same territory at the same time.

That is true. The Palestinians defined their territory inside their own international borders.

What territory did Israel define in its declaration? Where were its defined borders?

Palestine did not have any international borders. Just because they lived on the land, doesn't mean it was sovereign Palestinian territory.

Israel declared independence on land allotted to it by the partition plan and is now a sovereign state. Deal with it. No amount of lying is going to change it.

When did Israel declare the partition plan borders?

Israel did not declare borders. What does that have to do with anything ?

 

[RoccoR]

toastman, P F Tinmore, et al,

That is confusing to a number of people, because they do not put the various reports and resolutions in the proper sequence.

[

There was no resolution 181. It was a non binding plan that did not happen.

Where in my link does it say that??

(COMMENT)

FIRST: Up front, the question is: Was it implemented? The SHORT ANSWER is: YES!

The implementation was disclosed in a Public Announcement: Press Release PAL/169 17 May 1948 (The date is important!) The announcement says in part:

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."​

The UN page that simulates Resolution 181 (II) make two incorrect statements in the header of the page:

• The UN Palestine Commission reported that it was unable to implement res.
• 181 due to the deteriorating security situation and was abolished on 14 May 1948:

The UNPC did say, in A/532 10 April 1948, that in part was:

"Armed Arab bands from neighboring Arab States have infiltrated into the territory of Palestine and together with local Arab forces are defeating the purposes of the resolution by acts of violence. The Jews, on the other hand, are determined to ensure the establishment of the Jewish State, as envisaged by the resolution. The resulting conditions of insecurity in Palestine have made it impossible for the Commission to implement the Assembly’s resolution without the assistance of adequate armed forces."​

The was complemented with the observation that:

"Arab opposition to the Plan of the Assembly has taken the form of organized efforts by strong Arab elements, both inside and outside of Palestine, to prevent its implementation and to thwart its objectives by threats and acts of violence, including repeated armed incursions into Palestinian territory.​

However, that was not the last UNPC Report. The UNPC carried-on as best it could. A month later, with the evolving condition for war, the PAL/169 Statement was released to the media on implementation.

The second erroneous annotation in the header, suggesting that Resolution 181(II) was "abolished" is totally wrong. What A/RES/186 (S-2) 14 May 1948 says in part is:

"Relieves the Palestine Commission from the further exercise of responsibilities under resolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947."​

That is the last sentence of the Resolution and the only sentence in which either the UNPC or Resolution 181(II) are mentioned. The 186(S-2) Resolution does not abolish anything. In fact that word is not even used in the resolution.

The errors in the header are probable do to misinterpretations and inexperience.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Coyote]

No, I'm saying that they are not the same. All people of Arab-origin are not the same just like all Europeans are not the same.

Yeah yeah let's dance with words, "All people of Arab-origin" are ARABS.

They differ from each other culturally and how they identify themselves.

Are all Europeans the same?

Really round 2?
Europeans live wait for it...wait for it....O THE SAME CONTiNEnT.

Arabs who live n different continents- Africa and Asia do define themselves as ARABS
through the ARAB LEAGUE, nationalities have nothing to do with that.

Arabs who live on the same continent may call themselves Arabs (just like Europeans that live on the same continent call themselves Europeans and define themselves through the EU) but they aren't all culturally the same. It's not rocket science dude.

Well excuse me for bringing this argument back,
I believe too much people here a allowed to ditch their statements just to steer the topic.

Originally I said that Ashkenazi jews were persecuted in europe for being jews, all of a sudden the come
to Israel and they're europeans....

Then follows an argument on whether arabs in Africa and Asia who call themselves ARABS
have different cultures can be called arabs even if they consider themselves so, having the Arab league (including countries from different continents). There's no parallel between them and European Union.
Geography grade 1.

The issue still remains that those jebustian lovers like to close their eyes and choose to call jews those people that suit their views whenever convenient.

Sometimes a hew is a religious person, then it's race, then it's a nation or an ethos...Sometimes Israelis are merely Polish and nothing else, next time they're the leaders of the USSR.

Tell me if arabs can gather from different continents and be respectfully recognized as "The ARAB League"
pursuing different cultural aspirations why suddenly jews who were massacred for their Jewishness
in those arab lands as well as Europe are denied the same right to be recognized as simply JEWS?

when did they become ALL Polish before or after the pogroms?

What are you talking about exactly? You've got an apples and oranges argument here that isn't making a lot of sense.

Are you saying all Arabs are the same? All Arabs are not the same?

All Jews are the same? All Jews are not the same?

All Europeans are the same? All Europeans are not the same?

What exactly are you talking about because it doesn't seem to have anything to do with what I've said.

 

[rylah]

Yeah yeah let's dance with words, "All people of Arab-origin" are ARABS.

They differ from each other culturally and how they identify themselves.

Are all Europeans the same?

Really round 2?
Europeans live wait for it...wait for it....O THE SAME CONTiNEnT.

Arabs who live n different continents- Africa and Asia do define themselves as ARABS
through the ARAB LEAGUE, nationalities have nothing to do with that.

Arabs who live on the same continent may call themselves Arabs (just like Europeans that live on the same continent call themselves Europeans and define themselves through the EU) but they aren't all culturally the same. It's not rocket science dude.

Well excuse me for bringing this argument back,
I believe too much people here a allowed to ditch their statements just to steer the topic.

Originally I said that Ashkenazi jews were persecuted in europe for being jews, all of a sudden the come
to Israel and they're europeans....

Then follows an argument on whether arabs in Africa and Asia who call themselves ARABS
have different cultures can be called arabs even if they consider themselves so, having the Arab league (including countries from different continents). There's no parallel between them and European Union.
Geography grade 1.

The issue still remains that those jebustian lovers like to close their eyes and choose to call jews those people that suit their views whenever convenient.

Sometimes a hew is a religious person, then it's race, then it's a nation or an ethos...Sometimes Israelis are merely Polish and nothing else, next time they're the leaders of the USSR.

Tell me if arabs can gather from different continents and be respectfully recognized as "The ARAB League"
pursuing different cultural aspirations why suddenly jews who were massacred for their Jewishness
in those arab lands as well as Europe are denied the same right to be recognized as simply JEWS?

when did they become ALL Polish before or after the pogroms?

What are you talking about exactly? You've got an apples and oranges argument here that isn't making a lot of sense.

Are you saying all Arabs are the same? All Arabs are not the same?

All Jews are the same? All Jews are not the same?

All Europeans are the same? All Europeans are not the same?

What exactly are you talking about because it doesn't seem to have anything to do with what I've said.

Did I ever say "all arabs are the same"? I see You tend to dodge the arguments
projecting Your way o viewing everything in stigmatic manner.Th apples 'n oranges here are arabs and europeans You've tried to draw parallel between.

Read again the argument is valid for it shows exactly how You anti-Israelis
tend to murder a character of a whole people a thus justify physical murder.

When arguing on 48 they're called Polish, when reminded of arab pogroms they're called Marxist leaders,
while at times when cnvenient jews are merely a religious sect, when dealing with religious text they're separated between ashkenazi jews and sefardi jews.

So while arabs WHO ARE DIFFERENT (from various continents) have the privilege to define themselves as 'arabs",
the jewish identiy is always under question, attacked from every angle.

So tell me how jews from israel who were persecuted for being jews in arab and european lands,
all of a sudden become a different people?
Why do You define the Jews/Hebrews while undermining THEIR own definition while
staying out of the issues of other people identity?



That's an identity murder to justify a physical one.

 

[Billo_Really]

While You guys are numbed by some legal fictions/terms a real religious war is taking place.

While some try to persecute "war criminals" in high-society manner of international courts,
muslims use Your willingness to mess up in those legal terms in arguments that take years,
while they have no respect for any other law than sharia.

The conflict can't be explained in some western terms that are easy for You to grasp.
You're bound to argue on legal terms while it has no connection to the ME lexicon and moral.

While millions try fanatically to annihilate the Jews You try to put it in a box that fits You
conveniently.

I wonder how many of You have any real-life connection to what's going on.
My opinion is You're driven by Your egos while the currency of the argument is foreign to most of You.

Stop trying to hijack this thread into something about Jews. You wanna talk about Jews, go start your own thread. This thread is about Israeli's and Palestinian's. It has nothing to do with Judaism or Islam.

 

[rylah]

While You guys are numbed by some legal fictions/terms a real religious war is taking place.

While some try to persecute "war criminals" in high-society manner of international courts,
muslims use Your willingness to mess up in those legal terms in arguments that take years,
while they have no respect for any other law than sharia.

The conflict can't be explained in some western terms that are easy for You to grasp.
You're bound to argue on legal terms while it has no connection to the ME lexicon and moral.

While millions try fanatically to annihilate the Jews You try to put it in a box that fits You
conveniently.

I wonder how many of You have any real-life connection to what's going on.
My opinion is You're driven by Your egos while the currency of the argument is foreign to most of You.

Stop trying to hijack this thread into something about Jews. You wanna talk about Jews, go start your own thread. This thread is about Israeli's and Palestinian's. It has nothing to do with Judaism or Islam.

Hhhh and that's very logical. Talk about Israel and balestininans but don't touch Judaism or Islam.
Do You live on his planet??

The question remains the same and it's valid to both Israeli and baestinians (public opinion), while You live thousands of miles away but so eagerly push Your opinions and noses as some sort of experts we know You are:

"I wonder how many of You have any real-life connection to what's going on.
My opinion is You're driven by Your egos while the currency of the argument is foreign to most of You."

 

[Billo_Really]

Hhhh and that's very logical. Talk about Israel and balestininans but don't touch Judaism or Islam.
Do You live on his planet??

The question remains the same and it's valid to both Israeli and baestinians (public opinion), while You live thousands of miles away but so eagerly push Your opinions and noses as some sort of experts we know You are:

"I wonder how many of You have any real-life connection to what's going on.
My opinion is You're driven by Your egos while the currency of the argument is foreign to most of You."

You don't have to be a chicken, to know an egg.

 

[Phoenall]

Not all Jewish Immigrants were Zionist.​

That is true. The Zionists imported Jews from anywhere to populate their settlements. Most were probably unaware of the colonial project.

The Arab Palestinian rejected the opportunity to establish a State (more than once) until 1988,...​

Not true. Palestine was already a provisional state under mandate and they declared independence in 1948 after the Mandate left Palestine.

No they didn't. Their declaration of independence was in 1988. Stop lying.

Thats right it was the "all Palestinian government" an Egyptian based arab group that only spoke for gaza and had no legal standing outside of their own fantasy world. In any event they have their state in gaza now as Israel gave it up in 2005

And Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization.

What is your point?

That was acceoted by the sovereign land owners to represent the wishes of the Jews. The arabs refused point blank to take part in any way and so lost out

Who were those supposed land owners?

Link?

League of nations and the Mandate of Palestine

 

[Phoenall]

Setting aside the fact that these were Europeans with the intent to colonize Palestine, you are making things up as Zionists do. Nothing of sort happened. The Europeans did buy some land but the non-Jews still owned at least 85% of the land at the time of partition.

"164. The Arab population, despite the strenuous efforts of Jews to acquire land in Palestine, at present remains in possession of approximately 85 per cent of the land. "

A 364 of 3 September 1947

The Christians and Muslims were prevented from returning to their homes by the Jews that had expelled them by the Israeli imposition of the the Absentees’ Property Law, 5710- 1950. You can look it up, but in short it says that any Palestinian that left between 1947 and 1950 lost his home and land to the Jewish state.

The operative word being possession, just as now Israel is in possession of 100% of the West Bank. Want to build a case around that freeddy boy

Just because Israel has its fat ass parked on it does not make it theirs.

International law does, or are you one of these racist pigs that believes International law should never work in Israel's favour


By the way read article 80

What part of article 80 says what you think it says?

Read it, and the explanation given

 

[Phoenall]

toastman, Tinmore, et al,

Actually, P F Tinmore is (in part) correct here.

montelatici, et al,

Well, this is not exactly accurate and some what exaggerated.

Wow, that's a leap. Let me get this straight. The Zionists did not intend to colonize Palestine because they only colonized a large part of it. Setting aside that they control all of Palestine and the Israeli PM has stated that there will be no Palestinian state, most of Palestine was, in fact colonized. Your dog won't hunt.

(COMMENT)

Some salient points under Mandate:

• Not all Jewish Immigrants were Zionist.
• Jewish immigration was encourage.
• Immigration included all Jews who were willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.
• In co-operation with the Jewish Agency, close settlement by Jews on the land, west of the Jordan River.

Some salient points after Mandate:

• The Jewish Agency completed the UN Steps Preparatory to Independence.
• In 1949 the Gaza Strip came under the administration of the All Palestine Government (dissolved in 1959) controlled by the Egyptian Military Governorship.
• In 1950, the West Bank (Unification of the Two Banks) became sovereign Jordanian Territory.
• On 5 June 1967, hostilities broke out between Israel and Egypt, Jordan and Syria. By the time a ceasefire called for by the Security Council was accepted by the parties, Israeli military forces had occupied the Egyptian Sinai, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank including East Jerusalem, and part of the Syrian Golan Heights.
• 1997 Oslo II - Area C under full Israeli civil and security control. Settlements are subject to permanent status negotiations:
  • By Agreement with the PLO, "the Settlements" means,
    • In the West Bank - the settlements in Area C;
    • and in the Gaza Strip -
    • the Gush Katif and Erez settlement areas

The Israelis never occupied Palestinian Territory; they did occupied Egyptian Governed Territory and Jordanian Sovereign Territory. The Arab Palestinian rejected the opportunity to establish a State (more than once) until 1988, when they finally declared Independence while the territory was already under military occupation; but four months after the Jordanians cut all ties with the West Bank. During the tenure of the Mandate and the and the time since independence, the Jewish Immigrants never never represented a colonial power; no relationships between a colonial power and any Jewish Settlement was established while the territory was under under the Mandate. In fact the Jewish Immigrants were not all from the same country, or even the same continent; and could not represent a single power.

The purpose of the occupation is to extend the protections to the sovereignty and integrity of Israel against an opponent that does not recognize the State of Israel; and holds the political position that the Arab Palestinian is the only legitimate sovereign to the territory that covers the land west of the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. This is the same opponent that has declared Jihad (Holy War), and considers any means necessary to take in the eviction of the State of Israel as legal and legitimate. This threat was made in February 1948, and has appeared in the Islamic Resistance Movement Covenant, the Palestinian Nation Charter, and most recently, the the 2013 Official Position Paper published by the Khaled Mashaal, Political Leader, Islamic Resistance Movement and Unity Government Partner. Given the previous history of past behaviors, and actual response to the 2005 Disengagement from the Gaza Strip, the Occupation of Palestinian territory there is no reason to believe that an agreement to suspend combat (or any formal Peace Agreement) will be honored by the Palestinian Regime; and that the Palestinians have every intention of attacking by surprise the enemy relying on Peace Agreement they conclude. Based on the current position of the Arab Palestinians there is essentially little prospect for a peace agreement that will have any success.

Most Respectfully,
R

Not all Jewish Immigrants were Zionist.​

That is true. The Zionists imported Jews from anywhere to populate their settlements. Most were probably unaware of the colonial project.

The Arab Palestinian rejected the opportunity to establish a State (more than once) until 1988,...​

Not true. Palestine was already a provisional state under mandate and they declared independence in 1948 after the Mandate left Palestine.

No they didn't. Their declaration of independence was in 1988. Stop lying.

(COMMENT)

The All Palestine Government (APG), established by the Arab League --- in anticipation of an complete Arab Victory in 1948, did announce the independence on 28 September 1948 in a cable (AC.1/330) from AHMED HILMI PASHA, Prime Minister (pro tempore); three months after the State of Israel was declared. The APG made a declaration "DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE." This is the traditional claim that Palestinians hold today as articulated by Khaled Meshaal, (Islamic Resistance Movement Political Leader) in the official position paper: "Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right." Of course the Jewish State and the Arab State cannot declare sovereignty over the same territory at the same time. The dilemma was resolved when the four Armistice Agreements were agreed to by the engaged warring parties. The APG was dissolved by the Egyptian Government in 1959. The West Bank was in Jordanian hands while the Gaza Strip was in officially under APG sovereign hands. The remainder was in Israeli hands. Israel was admitted to the UN and recognized by the General Assembly in Resolution 273 [A/RES/273 (III)] on 11 May 1949.

The end of hostilities and the Armistice arrangements made deliberations on the APG Declaration unnecessary. The forward edge of the battle area (FEBA) along which the Armistice Lines were drawn settled the Issue.

"The Egyptian defeat deprived the All-Palestine Government of its last and exceedingly tenuous hold on Palestinian soil, forcing it to transfer its seat from Gaza to Cairo. Its weakness was exposed for all to see, its prestige slumped, and its authority was undermined. In Cairo, the Government of All-Palestine gradually fell apart because of its impotence, ending up four years later as a department of the Arab League. Thereafter, it continued to exist in name only until Egypt's President Gamal Abdel Nasser closed its offices in 1959. SOURCE: Encyclopedia and From Wikipedia ​

Most Respectfully,
R

Of course the Jewish State and the Arab State cannot declare sovereignty over the same territory at the same time.​

That is true. The Palestinians defined their territory inside their own international borders.

What territory did Israel define in its declaration? Where were its defined borders?

Who declared palestines international borders and signed for the neighbouring nations. When did this happen and what treaty was it under.

A clue the LoN defined the mandate of palestines borders and truncated mandate of Palestine to Palestine for ease of use

 

[Phoenall]

montelatici, et al,

Well, this is not exactly accurate and some what exaggerated.

(COMMENT)

Some salient points under Mandate:

• Not all Jewish Immigrants were Zionist.
• Jewish immigration was encourage.
• Immigration included all Jews who were willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.
• In co-operation with the Jewish Agency, close settlement by Jews on the land, west of the Jordan River.

Some salient points after Mandate:

• The Jewish Agency completed the UN Steps Preparatory to Independence.
• In 1949 the Gaza Strip came under the administration of the All Palestine Government (dissolved in 1959) controlled by the Egyptian Military Governorship.
• In 1950, the West Bank (Unification of the Two Banks) became sovereign Jordanian Territory.
• On 5 June 1967, hostilities broke out between Israel and Egypt, Jordan and Syria. By the time a ceasefire called for by the Security Council was accepted by the parties, Israeli military forces had occupied the Egyptian Sinai, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank including East Jerusalem, and part of the Syrian Golan Heights.
• 1997 Oslo II - Area C under full Israeli civil and security control. Settlements are subject to permanent status negotiations:
  • By Agreement with the PLO, "the Settlements" means,
    • In the West Bank - the settlements in Area C;
    • and in the Gaza Strip -
    • the Gush Katif and Erez settlement areas

The Israelis never occupied Palestinian Territory; they did occupied Egyptian Governed Territory and Jordanian Sovereign Territory. The Arab Palestinian rejected the opportunity to establish a State (more than once) until 1988, when they finally declared Independence while the territory was already under military occupation; but four months after the Jordanians cut all ties with the West Bank. During the tenure of the Mandate and the and the time since independence, the Jewish Immigrants never never represented a colonial power; no relationships between a colonial power and any Jewish Settlement was established while the territory was under under the Mandate. In fact the Jewish Immigrants were not all from the same country, or even the same continent; and could not represent a single power.

The purpose of the occupation is to extend the protections to the sovereignty and integrity of Israel against an opponent that does not recognize the State of Israel; and holds the political position that the Arab Palestinian is the only legitimate sovereign to the territory that covers the land west of the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. This is the same opponent that has declared Jihad (Holy War), and considers any means necessary to take in the eviction of the State of Israel as legal and legitimate. This threat was made in February 1948, and has appeared in the Islamic Resistance Movement Covenant, the Palestinian Nation Charter, and most recently, the the 2013 Official Position Paper published by the Khaled Mashaal, Political Leader, Islamic Resistance Movement and Unity Government Partner. Given the previous history of past behaviors, and actual response to the 2005 Disengagement from the Gaza Strip, the Occupation of Palestinian territory there is no reason to believe that an agreement to suspend combat (or any formal Peace Agreement) will be honored by the Palestinian Regime; and that the Palestinians have every intention of attacking by surprise the enemy relying on Peace Agreement they conclude. Based on the current position of the Arab Palestinians there is essentially little prospect for a peace agreement that will have any success.

Most Respectfully,
R

Not all Jewish Immigrants were Zionist.​

That is true. The Zionists imported Jews from anywhere to populate their settlements. Most were probably unaware of the colonial project.

The Arab Palestinian rejected the opportunity to establish a State (more than once) until 1988,...​

Not true. Palestine was already a provisional state under mandate and they declared independence in 1948 after the Mandate left Palestine.

No they didn't. Their declaration of independence was in 1988. Stop lying.

Yes they did.

A C.1 330 of 14 October 1948

Obviously it was not a valid declaration since the real one was done in 1988

Google

Nowhere does it show any declaration of independence in 1948. It's basically on existent.

The Palestinian Declaration of Independence is a statement written by Palestinian poet Mahmoud Darwish and proclaimed by Yasser Arafat on 15 November 1988

Legal justification for the declaration was based on United Nations General AssemblyResolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947

From your link.

The partition plan was not implemented.[11]

There was no resolution 181. It was a non binding plan that did not happen.

But the LoN mandate of Palestine did and that is the terms the Jews declared independence under. Because the UN had become the trustee of the LoN mandate they were forced by International law to accept the Jews declaration of independence.

 

[Phoenall]

toastman, Tinmore, et al,

Actually, P F Tinmore is (in part) correct here.

Not all Jewish Immigrants were Zionist.​

That is true. The Zionists imported Jews from anywhere to populate their settlements. Most were probably unaware of the colonial project.

The Arab Palestinian rejected the opportunity to establish a State (more than once) until 1988,...​

Not true. Palestine was already a provisional state under mandate and they declared independence in 1948 after the Mandate left Palestine.

No they didn't. Their declaration of independence was in 1988. Stop lying.

(COMMENT)

The All Palestine Government (APG), established by the Arab League --- in anticipation of an complete Arab Victory in 1948, did announce the independence on 28 September 1948 in a cable (AC.1/330) from AHMED HILMI PASHA, Prime Minister (pro tempore); three months after the State of Israel was declared. The APG made a declaration "DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE." This is the traditional claim that Palestinians hold today as articulated by Khaled Meshaal, (Islamic Resistance Movement Political Leader) in the official position paper: "Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right." Of course the Jewish State and the Arab State cannot declare sovereignty over the same territory at the same time. The dilemma was resolved when the four Armistice Agreements were agreed to by the engaged warring parties. The APG was dissolved by the Egyptian Government in 1959. The West Bank was in Jordanian hands while the Gaza Strip was in officially under APG sovereign hands. The remainder was in Israeli hands. Israel was admitted to the UN and recognized by the General Assembly in Resolution 273 [A/RES/273 (III)] on 11 May 1949.

The end of hostilities and the Armistice arrangements made deliberations on the APG Declaration unnecessary. The forward edge of the battle area (FEBA) along which the Armistice Lines were drawn settled the Issue.

"The Egyptian defeat deprived the All-Palestine Government of its last and exceedingly tenuous hold on Palestinian soil, forcing it to transfer its seat from Gaza to Cairo. Its weakness was exposed for all to see, its prestige slumped, and its authority was undermined. In Cairo, the Government of All-Palestine gradually fell apart because of its impotence, ending up four years later as a department of the Arab League. Thereafter, it continued to exist in name only until Egypt's President Gamal Abdel Nasser closed its offices in 1959. SOURCE: Encyclopedia and From Wikipedia ​

Most Respectfully,
R

Of course the Jewish State and the Arab State cannot declare sovereignty over the same territory at the same time.

That is true. The Palestinians defined their territory inside their own international borders.

What territory did Israel define in its declaration? Where were its defined borders?

Palestine did not have any international borders. Just because they lived on the land, doesn't mean it was sovereign Palestinian territory.

Israel declared independence on land allotted to it by the partition plan and is now a sovereign state. Deal with it. No amount of lying is going to change it.

Palestine did not have any international borders.​

Who told you that?

Link?

Mandate of Palestine..............................

 

[Phoenall]

Hhhh and that's very logical. Talk about Israel and balestininans but don't touch Judaism or Islam.
Do You live on his planet??

The question remains the same and it's valid to both Israeli and baestinians (public opinion), while You live thousands of miles away but so eagerly push Your opinions and noses as some sort of experts we know You are:

"I wonder how many of You have any real-life connection to what's going on.
My opinion is You're driven by Your egos while the currency of the argument is foreign to most of You."

You don't have to be a chicken, to know an egg.

Specially a bad egg like you

 

[P F Tinmore]

Not all Jewish Immigrants were Zionist.​

That is true. The Zionists imported Jews from anywhere to populate their settlements. Most were probably unaware of the colonial project.

The Arab Palestinian rejected the opportunity to establish a State (more than once) until 1988,...​

Not true. Palestine was already a provisional state under mandate and they declared independence in 1948 after the Mandate left Palestine.

No they didn't. Their declaration of independence was in 1988. Stop lying.

Yes they did.

A C.1 330 of 14 October 1948

Obviously it was not a valid declaration since the real one was done in 1988

Google

Nowhere does it show any declaration of independence in 1948. It's basically on existent.

The Palestinian Declaration of Independence is a statement written by Palestinian poet Mahmoud Darwish and proclaimed by Yasser Arafat on 15 November 1988

Legal justification for the declaration was based on United Nations General AssemblyResolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947

From your link.

The partition plan was not implemented.[11]

There was no resolution 181. It was a non binding plan that did not happen.

But the LoN mandate of Palestine did and that is the terms the Jews declared independence under. Because the UN had become the trustee of the LoN mandate they were forced by International law to accept the Jews declaration of independence.

Can you quote that?

 

[P F Tinmore]

toastman, Tinmore, et al,

Actually, P F Tinmore is (in part) correct here.

No they didn't. Their declaration of independence was in 1988. Stop lying.

(COMMENT)

The All Palestine Government (APG), established by the Arab League --- in anticipation of an complete Arab Victory in 1948, did announce the independence on 28 September 1948 in a cable (AC.1/330) from AHMED HILMI PASHA, Prime Minister (pro tempore); three months after the State of Israel was declared. The APG made a declaration "DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE." This is the traditional claim that Palestinians hold today as articulated by Khaled Meshaal, (Islamic Resistance Movement Political Leader) in the official position paper: "Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right." Of course the Jewish State and the Arab State cannot declare sovereignty over the same territory at the same time. The dilemma was resolved when the four Armistice Agreements were agreed to by the engaged warring parties. The APG was dissolved by the Egyptian Government in 1959. The West Bank was in Jordanian hands while the Gaza Strip was in officially under APG sovereign hands. The remainder was in Israeli hands. Israel was admitted to the UN and recognized by the General Assembly in Resolution 273 [A/RES/273 (III)] on 11 May 1949.

The end of hostilities and the Armistice arrangements made deliberations on the APG Declaration unnecessary. The forward edge of the battle area (FEBA) along which the Armistice Lines were drawn settled the Issue.

"The Egyptian defeat deprived the All-Palestine Government of its last and exceedingly tenuous hold on Palestinian soil, forcing it to transfer its seat from Gaza to Cairo. Its weakness was exposed for all to see, its prestige slumped, and its authority was undermined. In Cairo, the Government of All-Palestine gradually fell apart because of its impotence, ending up four years later as a department of the Arab League. Thereafter, it continued to exist in name only until Egypt's President Gamal Abdel Nasser closed its offices in 1959. SOURCE: Encyclopedia and From Wikipedia ​

Most Respectfully,
R

Of course the Jewish State and the Arab State cannot declare sovereignty over the same territory at the same time.

That is true. The Palestinians defined their territory inside their own international borders.

What territory did Israel define in its declaration? Where were its defined borders?

Palestine did not have any international borders. Just because they lived on the land, doesn't mean it was sovereign Palestinian territory.

Israel declared independence on land allotted to it by the partition plan and is now a sovereign state. Deal with it. No amount of lying is going to change it.

Palestine did not have any international borders.​

Who told you that?

Link?

Mandate of Palestine..............................

Can you quote where it says that?

 

[ForeverYoung436]

While You guys are numbed by some legal fictions/terms a real religious war is taking place.

While some try to persecute "war criminals" in high-society manner of international courts,
muslims use Your willingness to mess up in those legal terms in arguments that take years,
while they have no respect for any other law than sharia.

The conflict can't be explained in some western terms that are easy for You to grasp.
You're bound to argue on legal terms while it has no connection to the ME lexicon and moral.

While millions try fanatically to annihilate the Jews You try to put it in a box that fits You
conveniently.

I wonder how many of You have any real-life connection to what's going on.
My opinion is You're driven by Your egos while the currency of the argument is foreign to most of You.

Exactly. Most of the people on this Board, especially on the Palestinian side, have never been to Israel or the Palestinian territories. Youtubes cannot make up for real-life and on-the-ground experience. And they also think of the conflict in Western terms.

 

[rylah]

Hhhh and that's very logical. Talk about Israel and balestininans but don't touch Judaism or Islam.
Do You live on his planet??

The question remains the same and it's valid to both Israeli and baestinians (public opinion), while You live thousands of miles away but so eagerly push Your opinions and noses as some sort of experts we know You are:

"I wonder how many of You have any real-life connection to what's going on.
My opinion is You're driven by Your egos while the currency of the argument is foreign to most of You."

You don't have to be a chicken, to know an egg.

I understand the saying, but it only establishes my point further.

So You compare eggs to Israel-balestin?? It's not simple "consumer friendly' issue, and I can conclude
that those arguing fiercely here have little education on cultures from both sides, any training in law
or comparative philosophy of religions.

The last do Yo have real-time intelligence gathered fr You and analyzed....

Well we're all eggs and chicken experts that's for sure, You don't even have to visit a farm to know what's going on in reality. Politics as usual and most of us are useful idiots, especially those experts from
some hole in other unrelated country.

But everyone jumps in...isn't that arrogant?

 

[P F Tinmore]

toastman, P F Tinmore, et al,

That is confusing to a number of people, because they do not put the various reports and resolutions in the proper sequence.

[

There was no resolution 181. It was a non binding plan that did not happen.

Where in my link does it say that??

(COMMENT)

FIRST: Up front, the question is: Was it implemented? The SHORT ANSWER is: YES!

The implementation was disclosed in a Public Announcement: Press Release PAL/169 17 May 1948 (The date is important!) The announcement says in part:

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."​

The UN page that simulates Resolution 181 (II) make two incorrect statements in the header of the page:

• The UN Palestine Commission reported that it was unable to implement res.
• 181 due to the deteriorating security situation and was abolished on 14 May 1948:

The UNPC did say, in A/532 10 April 1948, that in part was:

"Armed Arab bands from neighboring Arab States have infiltrated into the territory of Palestine and together with local Arab forces are defeating the purposes of the resolution by acts of violence. The Jews, on the other hand, are determined to ensure the establishment of the Jewish State, as envisaged by the resolution. The resulting conditions of insecurity in Palestine have made it impossible for the Commission to implement the Assembly’s resolution without the assistance of adequate armed forces."​

The was complemented with the observation that:

"Arab opposition to the Plan of the Assembly has taken the form of organized efforts by strong Arab elements, both inside and outside of Palestine, to prevent its implementation and to thwart its objectives by threats and acts of violence, including repeated armed incursions into Palestinian territory.​

However, that was not the last UNPC Report. The UNPC carried-on as best it could. A month later, with the evolving condition for war, the PAL/169 Statement was released to the media on implementation.

The second erroneous annotation in the header, suggesting that Resolution 181(II) was "abolished" is totally wrong. What A/RES/186 (S-2) 14 May 1948 says in part is:

"Relieves the Palestine Commission from the further exercise of responsibilities under resolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947."​

That is the last sentence of the Resolution and the only sentence in which either the UNPC or Resolution 181(II) are mentioned. The 186(S-2) Resolution does not abolish anything. In fact that word is not even used in the resolution.

The errors in the header are probable do to misinterpretations and inexperience.

Most Respectfully,
R

The UN Palestine Commission reported that it was unable to implement res. 181 due to the deteriorating security situation and was abolished on 14 May 1948:​

http://unispal.un.org/unispal.nsf/f...a9a8da193bd46c54852560e50060c6fd?OpenDocument

Then why did that clown say that it was implemented? And why do you believe him when it is obviously not true?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Setting aside the fact that these were Europeans with the intent to colonize Palestine, you are making things up as Zionists do. Nothing of sort happened. The Europeans did buy some land but the non-Jews still owned at least 85% of the land at the time of partition.

"164. The Arab population, despite the strenuous efforts of Jews to acquire land in Palestine, at present remains in possession of approximately 85 per cent of the land. "

A 364 of 3 September 1947

The Christians and Muslims were prevented from returning to their homes by the Jews that had expelled them by the Israeli imposition of the the Absentees’ Property Law, 5710- 1950. You can look it up, but in short it says that any Palestinian that left between 1947 and 1950 lost his home and land to the Jewish state.

The operative word being possession, just as now Israel is in possession of 100% of the West Bank. Want to build a case around that freeddy boy

Just because Israel has its fat ass parked on it does not make it theirs.

International law does, or are you one of these racist pigs that believes International law should never work in Israel's favour


By the way read article 80

What part of article 80 says what you think it says?

Read it, and the explanation given

I have read it. You are lying.

 

[P F Tinmore]

toastman, Tinmore, et al,

Actually, P F Tinmore is (in part) correct here.

No they didn't. Their declaration of independence was in 1988. Stop lying.

(COMMENT)

The All Palestine Government (APG), established by the Arab League --- in anticipation of an complete Arab Victory in 1948, did announce the independence on 28 September 1948 in a cable (AC.1/330) from AHMED HILMI PASHA, Prime Minister (pro tempore); three months after the State of Israel was declared. The APG made a declaration "DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE." This is the traditional claim that Palestinians hold today as articulated by Khaled Meshaal, (Islamic Resistance Movement Political Leader) in the official position paper: "Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right." Of course the Jewish State and the Arab State cannot declare sovereignty over the same territory at the same time. The dilemma was resolved when the four Armistice Agreements were agreed to by the engaged warring parties. The APG was dissolved by the Egyptian Government in 1959. The West Bank was in Jordanian hands while the Gaza Strip was in officially under APG sovereign hands. The remainder was in Israeli hands. Israel was admitted to the UN and recognized by the General Assembly in Resolution 273 [A/RES/273 (III)] on 11 May 1949.

The end of hostilities and the Armistice arrangements made deliberations on the APG Declaration unnecessary. The forward edge of the battle area (FEBA) along which the Armistice Lines were drawn settled the Issue.

"The Egyptian defeat deprived the All-Palestine Government of its last and exceedingly tenuous hold on Palestinian soil, forcing it to transfer its seat from Gaza to Cairo. Its weakness was exposed for all to see, its prestige slumped, and its authority was undermined. In Cairo, the Government of All-Palestine gradually fell apart because of its impotence, ending up four years later as a department of the Arab League. Thereafter, it continued to exist in name only until Egypt's President Gamal Abdel Nasser closed its offices in 1959. SOURCE: Encyclopedia and From Wikipedia ​

Most Respectfully,
R

Of course the Jewish State and the Arab State cannot declare sovereignty over the same territory at the same time.

That is true. The Palestinians defined their territory inside their own international borders.

What territory did Israel define in its declaration? Where were its defined borders?

Palestine did not have any international borders. Just because they lived on the land, doesn't mean it was sovereign Palestinian territory.

Israel declared independence on land allotted to it by the partition plan and is now a sovereign state. Deal with it. No amount of lying is going to change it.

When did Israel declare the partition plan borders?

Israel did not declare borders. What does that have to do with anything ?

Look at my response to Rocco.

You need to keep up.