Explain it to me like I'm stupid ...

[Sixties Fan]

The OP in point of fact does care. Your post is arrogantly fallacious and a personal attack.

Some won’t like the shakeup to get the members discussing the facts instead of personal attacks that can be made in the flame zone.

This was not a personal attack, but a matter of fact considering that the moderator closed two important threads and then started this one not knowing and clearly not caring about any history or politics of the region. His/her words are clear to me about that.

And like many other posters who start threads, they start it and then disappear.

I got absolutely no answer from this moderator asking for those two threads to be re opened.

The OP cares? When he/she does not know that the war between Israel and the Palestinians is NOT over Jerusalem, and then says that there are answers he/she will accept and others they will not?.......well!!!!


It does not work that way for me. Coyote was not that way, whatever her ideas and knowledge about the conflict was.

There is really nothing to be discussed on this thread. It was not started for discussions, exactly because the OP brought a fallacious reason for the conflict to be discussed.

I truly do not know what to make of the first post:

"Why is there so much hate between Israel and Palestine? Is it all because both want Jerusalem to belong to them?"

 

[Ropey]

This was not a personal attack, but a matter of fact considering that the moderator closed two important threads and then started this one not knowing and clearly not caring about any history or politics of the region. His/her words are clear to me about that.

And like many other posters who start threads, they start it and then disappear.

I got absolutely no answer from this moderator asking for those two threads to be re opened.

The OP cares? When he/she does not know that the war between Israel and the Palestinians is NOT over Jerusalem, and then says that there are answers he/she will accept and others they will not?.......well!!!!


It does not work that way for me. Coyote was not that way, whatever her ideas and knowledge about the conflict was.

There is really nothing to be discussed on this thread. It was not started for discussions, exactly because the OP brought a fallacious reason for the conflict to be discussed.

I truly do not know what to make of the first post:

"Why is there so much hate between Israel and Palestine? Is it all because both want Jerusalem to belong to them?"

Aye is actually looking at the sub-forum and learning about the issues. You seem resistant to change and change happens all the time.

imho? Regardless of the subject content of this sub-forum?

Enough of the spamming and personal attacks. If people want to do the personal attacks, they can do it in the flame zone. That's the place for it. This sub-forum is already too volatile for it....

 

[Sixties Fan]

Aye is actually looking at the sub-forum and learning about the issues. You seem resistant to change and change happens all the time.

imho? Regardless of the subject content of this sub-forum?

Enough of the spamming and personal attacks. If people want to do the personal attacks, they can do it in the flame zone. That's the place for it. This sub-forum is already too volatile for it....

That is just an opinion of yours. I have hardly ever seen a post by this moderator anywhere. He/she is learning? When they would not bother to read the threads and simply closed them because they were a few years old.

I could say that you are attacking me. Whether you actually are or not, who knows. I am not going into this.

You are the one making a big fuss about my requests to the moderator which got no answer at all. It is more than possible that this moderator never read one post of those threads.

Those two threads have had a continuation, started by Coyote herself, for different reasons. Re doing and restarting a thread is normal, from what I have seen in these sub forums, closing a thread because of too many posts, or because it got derailed.


I do not know where you are coming from. I know where I am coming from in reference to those threads and how they should be treated or dealt with.

 

[Ropey]

That is just an opinion of yours.

Yes.

I have hardly ever seen a post by this moderator anywhere. He/she is learning? When they would not bother to read the threads and simply closed them because they were a few years old.

She is not obsessed with the I/P forum. That's all to the good imho.

I could say that you are attacking me. Whether you actually are or not, who knows. I am not going into this.

You can say anything you want. Then you can attempt to prove it.

You are the one making a big fuss about my requests to the moderator which got no answer at all. It is more than possible that this moderator never read one post of those threads.

Those two threads have had a continuation, started by Coyote herself, for different reasons. Re doing and restarting a thread is normal, from what I have seen in these sub forums, closing a thread because of too many posts, or because it got derailed.

I do not know where you are coming from. I know where I am coming from in reference to those threads and how they should be treated or dealt with.

And it doesn't matter. The rerouting of members seems to be over. Let the discussion proceed.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Yes.



She is not obsessed with the I/P forum. That's all to the good imho.



You can say anything you want. Then you can attempt to prove it.



And it doesn't matter. The rerouting of members seems to be over. Let the discussion proceed.

You really do not know what you are talking about, which is exactly why I have had you on ignore since forever. No logic to what you post.

Have a nice day.

 

[Ropey]

You really do not know what you are talking about, which is exactly why I have had you on ignore since forever. No logic to what you post.

For someone who has me on ignore, you sure are posting to me.

Have a nice day.

And you as well.

Now back to the topic at hand, since this is not about me.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

As far as any potential argument is concerned regarding Jerusalem, all any thinking person needs to do is ask themselves where that particular name originated.

Hint - it sure isn't Arabic.

 

[Ropey]

As far as any potential argument is concerned regarding Jerusalem, all any thinking person needs to do is ask themselves where that particular name originated.

Hint - it sure isn't Arabic.

+2

"Now, what was the city called before Abraham renamed it Yireh? To discover this, we need to backtrack a few chapters. After rescuing his relative, Lot, from captivity, we read how Abraham was greeted by "Malchizedek the king of Shalem," who greeted him with bread and wine. An ancient tradition tells us that Malchizedek was actually one and the same as Shem, son of Noah, and that Shalem was none other than the very place that Abraham would eventually rename Yireh. So Shalem is the second half: Yireh + Shalem = Yerushalayim."

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1206280/jewish/Who-Named-Jerusalem.htm

And "Palestina" is not an Arabic name.

 

[Ropey]

Ropey at least respect their memory

No. You can do that. Israel is already legitimate and not virtual, like the virtual state of Palestine.

If you concede the fact that the vast majority of the jewish community in Palestine in 1880 hated Zionism just like the Neturei Karta of today, why are you (ab)using their historic presence in Palestine to "legitimize" a political movement they considered a despicable blasphemy?​

There is no concession on my part.

Stop debating in bad faith.

Just because you see bad faith in no way means that the faith is, in point of fact, bad.

Respect the fact that they're no longer here to defend themselves from abusers like you

Personal attacks already. You lose that easily.;..

who instrumentalize them, who use them as tools to validate the very same political movement they spent their entire lives fighting against.

It is what it is, regardless of your attempts to personalize your attacks.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Their faces are pretty much busted. And kind of long. Like horse face long. So, yeah, no...huh uh...hard pass...

From the neck down, they're pretty much a dime a dozen, no matter the nationality.

 

[USAF 2023]

Pretty much.

YAWN..Another lie. Olmert offered them almost ALL of E Jerusalem. He just requested that the Jewish Quarter be left within Israeli sovereignty. Of course it was rejected

 

[Confederate Soldier]

YAWN..Another lie. Olmert offered them almost ALL of E Jerusalem. He just requested that the Jewish Quarter be left within Israeli sovereignty. Of course it was rejected

It isn't rocket science. Middle easterners have been fighting each other since Islam and Judaism was a thing.

 

[AyeCantSeeYou]

How are you in a position of determining who is or is not being honest if you know nothing about the history of the conflict?

Even phrasing the conflict as being between "Israel and Palestine" is misleading because the conflict goes back to a time before there was a country called Israel and before the intentional creation of a people called "Palestinian".

What none of you know until now is that I do know enough about the conflict to ask the question I did in the OP. If you read thru the answers, you'll see that most people have a different take on what happened to cause the conflict and blame one side or the other. One of my advanced history classes in college was taught by a professor whose specialty is in the history of that region of the world. For those that want to know what really started the conflict, they'd first need to "forget" everything they think they know about it, have read about it, and have heard about it. The truth is out there, but not in plain sight.

 

[AyeCantSeeYou]

Please, re open this thread and put it back on the top where it was.

The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

This thread was created in order to attempt to fix the significant derailment of another thread without having to delete posts. The topic of this thread is one that comes up with regularity in IP, and is also a frequent derailer of active threads so it will now have a thread of it's own which...

www.usmessageboard.com

We have been posting and discussing the topic and adding to it when we find old information which has to do with it.

The whole issue of Israel and the Palestinians starts with the end of WWI, the Balfour Declaration and the Mandate for Palestine.

Please, allow us to continue with it. After all this whole community is about: Israel and Palestine.

Thank you.

It started before that.

Those threads were closed because they add to the "divide" in this area of the forum. All one has to do to see it for themselves is to look at the main page of Israel and Palestine and read thru the thread topics. For instance: "All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss 2" and "All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss"
Is it really necessary to call others "anti-Israel" and "anti-Palestinian"? Do some of you have so much hate inside of you for your fellow man that you would dismiss them in that manner? Whatever happened to "Love thy neighbor"? I was never brought up or taught in church to "hate" my neighbor.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

What none of you know until now is that I do know enough about the conflict to ask the question I did in the OP. If you read thru the answers, you'll see that most people have a different take on what happened to cause the conflict and blame one side or the other. One of my advanced history classes in college was taught by a professor whose specialty is in the history of that region of the world. For those that want to know what really started the conflict, they'd first need to "forget" everything they think they know about it, have read about it, and have heard about it. The truth is out there, but not in plain sight.

You phrased it as "Palestine vs Israel". Your professor did not give you an adequate background if that is what you think.

The conflict is between Arabs,specifically Islamic Arabs and Jews

As far as the mandate of Palestine is concerned, Arabs were given 78 percent of it. We call it Jordan today. There has never been a country of Palestine run by those we call "palestinian" today. The use of the term Palestinian to describe localized Arabs did not come into fashion until after the 6 day war and THAT is for strategic propaganda use only.

 

[AyeCantSeeYou]

Don't worry. The OP does not care. Started this thread just "because".

You are wrong in both instances. What are afraid of by allowing people to discuss the subject instead of believing something just because someone found it in print somewhere?

 

[AyeCantSeeYou]

You phrased it as "Palestine vs Israel". Your professor did not give you an adequate background if that is what you think.

The conflict is between Arabs,specifically Islamic Arabs and Jews

As far as the mandate of Palestine is concerned, Arabs were given 78 percent of it. We call it Jordan today. There has never been a country of Palestine run by those we call "palestinian" today. The use of the term Palestinian to describe localized Arabs did not come into fashion until after the 6 day war and THAT is for strategic propaganda use only.

Palestine vs Israel is not what I think. If someone takes the time to read thru the thread topics in the area of the forum, that IS what they would think. I started this thread to see if people would discuss the topic as a whole instead of trying to pit one against the other.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Palestine vs Israel is not what I think. If someone takes the time to read thru the thread topics in the area of the forum, that IS what they would think. I started this thread to see if people would discuss the topic as a whole instead of trying to pit one against the other.

I really don't imagine most people are able to divine either your intent or your base of knowledge when your words are not revealing of either.

Since you phrased it as "Palestine" vs. Israel, you really cannot expect people to assume that is not how you see it.


Understanding the invention of a "Palestinian" people and how that influenced perception is key to understanding the situation in its full context.

 

[AyeCantSeeYou]

I really don't imagine most people are able to divine either your intent or your base of knowledge when your words are not revealing of either.

Since you phrased it as "Palestine" vs. Israel, you really cannot expect people to assume that is not how you see it.


Understanding the invention of a "Palestinian" people and how that influenced perception is key to understanding the situation in its full context.

Perfect example of why people shouldn't just "assume" something. That is on them, not me.

 

[P F Tinmore]

You are wrong in both instances. What are afraid of by allowing people to discuss the subject instead of believing something just because someone found it in print somewhere?

The Palestinians were at home minding their own business like they had for hundreds of years. The Zionists came down from Europe, gave them the boot, and declared themselves to be a state.

It is not complicated.