EVs are not selling well. Dealers are upset

[BULLDOG]

1832 called, they want their talking points back.

The Electric Car’s History Goes Back Further Than You Think

The first electric cars appeared long before the earliest gas autos, and the history of electric cars is littered with innovative takes on four-wheeled transit.

www.caranddriver.com

Interesting article, but nobody spent millions of dollars to improve them until recetly.

 

[leftwinger]

You're a real piece of shit. In that other thread I gave you a bunch of links to banks with high returning savings accounts. I explained to you that there are no minimums, no time limits.

https://www.raisin.com/en-us/banks/western-alliance-bank

I had my money at USBANK. I just moved it internally. They had rules. I work. No time to hunt for your local credit union stuff.

 

[Rogue AI]

Interesting article, but nobody spent millions of dollars to improve them until recetly.

Maybe putting your hopes in a product that's been rejected for almost 200 years is the problem.

 

[pknopp]

They have only seen 1% growth in the past 12 months.
So of course it is a "record sales" since 1% more is... more.
At any rate considering it all, 1% growth is abysmal for a product that is supposed to take over the market by 2030.

Quit being so gullible.

 

[ding]

Not yet. No doubt I will, in time.

Why?

 

[Foxfyre]

Well given I spent my adult life up to middle age as a Democrat, I surely had good reasons to abandon that party. What kicks me is how Democrats will always tell me about myself though they engage in lies and predictions they can't possibly back up.

Stock in trade of so much of the left. Self righteousness, judgmentalism, ad hominem, personal insults. Now admittedly some on the right are just as pathetic, but those on the right aren't talking about putting people in re-education camps or pushing media to censor or not report anything good from the right or anything bad from the left which all adds up to cancel culture to suppress and silence all opposition.

And nowhere has that been as obvious as in the whole climate change debate. Early on, those even questioning much less debating the AGW 'religion' were tossed out of scientific institutions, out of the IPCC, out of media, out of education institutions. And you see the left speaking with one voice pushing for all EVs and 'clean energy', labeling opposing posts as 'fake news' and I don't see any of them backing up their arguments with even logic and reason let alone facts.

 

[Robert W]

Stock in trade of so much of the left. Self righteousness, judgmentalism, ad hominem, personal insults. Now admittedly some on the right are just as pathetic, but those on the right aren't talking about putting people in re-education camps or pushing media to censor or not report anything good from the right or anything bad from the left which all adds up to cancel culture to suppress and silence all opposition.

And nowhere has that been as obvious as in the whole climate change debate. Early on, those even questioning much less debating the AGW 'religion' were tossed out of scientific institutions, out of the IPCC, out of media, out of education institutions. And you see the left speaking with one voice pushing for all EVs and 'clean energy', labeling opposing posts as 'fake news' and I don't see any of them backing up their arguments with even logic and reason let alone facts.

I admit when I was a Democrat, when I knew one of my coworkers was a Republican, I would toe to the party line and man were they upset. But I had also voted democrat when they were not so radical. I never dreamed they would make important decisions on my car or home or hell, the whole shebang.

 

[Robert W]

Great. So why take cheap nuclear, use it to generate hydrogen and use that hydrogen to generate electricity?

Does this tell me you prefer sticking to gasoline and diesel?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Does this tell me you prefer sticking to gasoline and diesel?

Pointing out the energy (and money) wasted doesn't tell you what I prefer,
besides not wasting energy and money.

But gasoline and diesel are much more energy dense than hydrogen
and don't require more energy to manufacture than they release.

I still don't know why you think hydrogen is attractive as a fuel.

 

[toobfreak]

They’ve been around since the 1830’s, how much longer will you continue to believe they are in their infancy?

But that is the whole point. There is nothing new about a battery driven DC electric car! The problem has always been that the technology was never practical nor affordable.

It is only now becoming practical and affordable to the affluent who can tolerate limited usage around big cities, but for most apps, the EV car is nowhere. Their marketability is being artificially buoyed by government infusions to both lower cost and by buying up fleets of the crap because it is YOU they are making foot the bill.

 

[Robert W]

Pointing out the energy (and money) wasted doesn't tell you what I prefer,
besides not wasting energy and money.

But gasoline and diesel are much more energy dense than hydrogen
and don't require more energy to manufacture than they release.

I still don't know why you think hydrogen is attractive as a fuel.

Well, in the first place you are correct. And I agree that our best solution for many years is to stick to what we are set up to use. Diesel and gasoline are it.

 

[toobfreak]

It's good to have a goal, plus they'll go down considerably in 5 years plus.

Because after 5 years, an EV ain't worth shit. By the time an EV gets to be 10 years old, figure on needing to invest $20K into keeping it on the road. Whereas the chief nemesis of ice cars is body rust which can be easily fixed, the chief nemesis of EVs is deterioration of the charge/discharge capacity of the battery which is like half the weight and cost of the vehicle.

 

[Foxfyre]

But that is the whole point. There is nothing new about a battery driven DC electric car! The problem has always been that the technology was never practical nor affordable.

It is only now becoming practical and affordable to the affluent who can tolerate limited usage around big cities, but for most apps, the EV car is nowhere. Their marketability is being artificially buoyed by government infusions to both lower cost and by buying up fleets of the crap because it is YOU they are making foot the bill.

I don't know many who have EVs but the few who do also have at least one other gasoline powered vehicle in their garage or driveway. And they tell me that if they need to travel out of town, they take the gasoline powered car.

 

[toobfreak]

I don't know many who have EVs but the few who do also have at least one other gasoline powered vehicle in their garage or driveway. And they tell me that if they need to travel out of town, they take the gasoline powered car.

Well sure. A tank of gas has twelve times the energy density of an EV battery! EV battery = 1000 pounds. Tank of gas about 80 pounds. Further, the energy is IN the gas. In an EV, the energy is produced elsewhere then only temporarily held in the battery! With losses every step of the way.

Would you drive an ICE car if it took a 144 gallon tank of gas ($560.00 for a fill-up) the size of your trunk and the whole backseat to get around? That is what you are buying with an EV, energy density-wise, and it only goes downhill with cold weather and accessory usage.

 

[AZrailwhale]

New cars, period. They are all over-priced. People are wising up. There's nothing but bells and whistles driving up car prices. They aren't making unbreakable transmissions or anything.

I wish that I could buy a Jeep or Bronco that had no amenities, just engine, manual transmission and rubber floor mats, it’s nuts to put power everything on something to take off road.

 

[Foxfyre]

Well sure. A tank of gas has twelve times the energy density of an EV battery! EV battery = 1000 pounds. Tank of gas about 80 pounds. Further, the energy is IN the gas. In an EV, the energy is produced elsewhere then only temporarily held in the battery! With losses every step of the way.

Would you drive an ICE car if it took a 144 gallon tank of gas ($560.00 for a fill-up) the size of your trunk and the whole backseat to get around? That is what you are buying with an EV, energy density-wise, and it only goes downhill with cold weather and accessory usage.

Actually the performance of the one EV I have driven is pretty good. Accelerates well, handles well, pleasant to drive. (It was a Tesla.) But I'm one of those nervous nellies that begins getting anxious if the gas gauge drops below half full. I would be a wreck out on the highway in an EV especially if we were delayed by a wreck or weather or something which happens all too often these days to assume it is unlikely to happen.

 

[Captain Caveman]

What ever your background might be, it's not enough to override the credibility of all the manufacturers and experts who have chosen current EV technology. Convince them that you have a better way, and I'll support your beliefs.

A better way? Diesel.

I would use the term, "Expert", loosely. So I don't find those, "Experts", credible.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Why haven't hydrogen powered vehicles been produced and sold?

There is no infrastructure to support them is the primary reason. If I gave you a car today powered by hydrogen only, could you use it?

If you live in South Korea, Austria, and Denmark, there are enough hydrogen stations to drive across those countries. I believe California and Ohio are investing in hydrogen stations.

https://www.glpautogas.info/en/hydrogen-stations.htmlhttps://www.glpautogas.info/en/hydrogen-stations.html

 

[2aguy]

A police officer friend related that if you buy and EV and get into a crash, it will likely start on fire and burn you to death......he has seen several EV crashes and they all started on fire, and took hours for the Fire Dept. to put them out.....

 

[Blues Man]

EVs are still in their infantsy. Of course there are and will be problems to work out. Nobody expects them to be completely worked out right now.

And yet states are now mandating that only electric cars be sold within their borders