EV's are good for the environment they said.....the largest lithium-ion battery recovering facility in the world explodes!

[progressive hunter]

It took months because there were THOUSANDS of them.

Once you have the crew on site the actual extinguishing takes about an hour. It takes more time to re cap the well, but the actual fire fighting is quick.

I've seen it done in as few as 15 minutes.

those crews used knowledge gained from 100 yrs of experience of putting them out,,

all we are doing is going through a learning curve on new tech,,

 

[petro]

How is this different than the great oil spills, you idiot.

It isn't, which proves there is nothing green about lithium batteries or the process of mining it either.
Just another form of pollution.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Yes, it is.

 

[westwall]

those crews used knowledge gained from 100 yrs of experience of putting them out,,

all we are doing is going through a learning curve on new tech,,

That's true. But the physics of Li ion battery fires is FAR more energetic. And they are thousands of times more toxic than oil fires

 

[progressive hunter]

That's true. But the physics of Li ion battery fires is FAR more energetic. And they are thousands of times more toxic than oil fires

sure,, doesnt mean we wont find better ways to both build batteries and fight the fires they create,,

give it time,,

 

[westwall]

sure,, doesnt mean we wont find better ways to both build batteries and fight the fires they create,,

give it time,,

I'm happy to. How about we not pollute the ever loving hell out of the planet and not scale up till we have a handle on the issues.

Your approach is like the California Air Resources Board which mandated the addition of MTBE to gasoline as an oxygenate.

Great idea to reduce air pollution, but the resulting GROUND WATER pollution was orders of magnitude worse than what they were trying to correct.

20 years later we still have water wells that are unusable thanks to that stupid choice.

 

[progressive hunter]

I'm happy to. How about we not pollute the ever loving hell out of the planet and not scale up till we have a handle on the issues.

Your approach is like the California Air Resources Board which mandated the addition of MTBE to gasoline as an oxygenate.

Great idea to reduce air pollution, but the resulting GROUND WATER pollution was orders of magnitude worse than what they were trying to correct.

20 years later we still have water wells that are unusable thanks to that stupid choice.

my approach??

how is using the tech while finding out the problems and fixing them a wrong approach??

not sure why you jumped to the extreme of
"pollute the ever loving hell out of the planet and not scale up till we have a handle on the issues"

how do we get a handle on it if we dont use it in real life scenarios??.

 

[westwall]

my approach??

how is using the tech while finding out the problems and fixing them a wrong approach??

not sure why you jumped to the extreme of
"pollute the ever loving hell out of the planet and not scale up till we have a handle on the issues"

how do we get a handle on it if we dont use it in real life scenarios??.

I just laid it out for you. MTBE caused far more pollution issues then the air pollution it was supposed to correct.

The same is true with Li ion batteries. The pollution they create, when they burn, and they burn A LOT, is worse, far worse, than the pollution they are supposed to correct.

Do you understand that?

 

[progressive hunter]

I just laid it out for you. MTBE caused far more pollution issues then the air pollution it was supposed to correct.

The same is true with Li ion batteries. The pollution they create, when they burn, and they burn A LOT, is worse, far worse, than the pollution they are supposed to correct.

Do you understand that?

are you saying tesla and all other EV companies should be closed up vehicles recalled and not allowed to put cars on the road untill youre satisfied fires can be put out easier and they dont produce any pollution??

 

[westwall]

are you saying tesla and all other EV companies should be closed up vehicles recalled and not allowed to put cars on the road untill youre satisfied fires can be put out easier and they dont produce any pollution??

Who said anything about closing them up? I said SCALING up. If a person buys a Tesla and it burns to the ground, that's between him and Tesla.

But the push for power walls and the cocommitant need to deal with the battery waste is a HUGE issue.

One that GOVERNMENT should not be mandating.

 

[progressive hunter]

Who said anything about closing them up? I said SCALING up. If a person buys a Tesla and it burns to the ground, that's between him and Tesla.

But the push for power walls and the cocommitant need to deal with the battery waste is a HUGE issue.

One that GOVERNMENT should not be mandating.

I have said in this thread and everytime I have discussed this topic that I am against the mandates,,

to scale up you have to bring it out into the real world to see what problems arise and how to deal with them,,

not everything can be seen and understood in testing,,

this factory is in fact one of the attempts to deal with battery disposal and recovery,,

its a harsh truth but you learn more from mistakes than successes,,

 

[westwall]

I have said in this thread and everytime I have discussed this topic that I am against the mandates,,

to scale up you have to bring it out into the real world to see what problems arise and how to deal with them,,

not everything can be seen and understood in testing,,

this factory is in fact one of the attempts to deal with battery disposal and recovery,,

its a harsh truth but you learn more from mistakes than successes,,

I agree with pretty much everything you said in this post. Where I disagree is your willingness to accept massive pollution in pursuit of technology.

Real world use is absolutely necessary, but not at the level they are pushing. Not until they work out those problems.

Fix those, then scale up a level. Fix the problems that arise from that level, etc.

What they are doing now is stupid, and harmful.

 

[progressive hunter]

I agree with pretty much everything you said in this post. Where I disagree is your willingness to accept massive pollution in pursuit of technology.

Real world use is absolutely necessary, but not at the level they are pushing. Not until they work out those problems.

Fix those, then scale up a level. Fix the problems that arise from that level, etc.

What they are doing now is stupid, and harmful.

WHERE IN THE FUCK DID I SAY I M WILLING TO ACCEPT MASSIVE POLLUTION?

the tech has been here for over 100 yrs nd the pollution has already happened and will continue to happen regardless of what you or I say,,

if you have problem with what theyre pushing then go bust their balls,,

dont put words in my mouth and make claims I never said,,

how about you tell me how they fix problem and then scale up??

should they onnly make 10 cars and wait a hundred yrs??

or make 100 cars and wait ten yrs??

you seem to think youre so much smarter than everyone else so how bout you walk us through it??

 

[westwall]

WHERE IN THE FUCK DID I SAY I M WILLING TO ACCEPT MASSIVE POLLUTION?

the tech has been here for over 100 yrs nd the pollution has already happened and will continue to happen regardless of what you or I say,,

if you have problem with what theyre pushing then go bust their balls,,

dont put words in my mouth and make claims I never said,,

how about you tell me how they fix problem and then scale up??

should they onnly make 10 cars and wait a hundred yrs??

or make 100 cars and wait ten yrs??

you seem to think youre so much smarter than everyone else so how bout you walk us through it??

WHERE IN THE FUCK DID I SAY I M WILLING TO ACCEPT MASSIVE POLLUTION?

the tech has been here for over 100 yrs nd the pollution has already happened and will continue to happen regardless of what you or I say,,

if you have problem with what theyre pushing then go bust their balls,,

dont put words in my mouth and make claims I never said,,

how about you tell me how they fix problem and then scale up??

should they onnly make 10 cars and wait a hundred yrs??

or make 100 cars and wait ten yrs??

you seem to think youre so much smarter than everyone else so how bout you walk us through it??

Your post, #19 sure implies it. And, your post above as well. Li ion batteries are still in the self combusting stage of development.

Oil and gasoline development never had to deal with that phase. They require an outside force to cause them to ignite.

I have a 600 gallon tank, full of avgas, and it's been there for 6 years now, with no issues, nor will it ever have one. It doesn't spontaneously combust. Li ion batteries do.

 

[progressive hunter]

Your post, #19 sure implies it.

sure it does,,

or is it I have no say or choice in the matter and just pointed out how things have worked since the beginning of time,,
I accept what happens just like I accept deaths from cars,,

now since you seem to know it all, please tell the class what you would tell people like elon musk and all the other people to do to limit production while fixing problems and then scaling up,,

please walk us through it

 

[westwall]

sure it does,,

or is it I have no say or choice in the matter and just pointed out how things have worked since the beginning of time,,


now since you seem to know it all, please tell the class what you would tell people like elon musk and all the other people to do to limit production while fixing problems and then scaling up,,

please walk us through it

Ahhhh, but you do have a choice. If people stop supporting the mandates, and demand that the EV technology companies be required to follow the same laws as the oil companies must, then you will see real progress in controlling the EV, and " green" energy pollution that is running rampant.

I spent 40 years of my life fighting and cleaning up pollution. It pisses me off no end to see that hard work wiped away in a few short years by even worse pollution.

 

[progressive hunter]

Ahhhh, but you do have a choice. If people stop supporting the mandates, and demand that the EV technology companies be required to follow the same laws as the oil companies must, then you will see real progress in controlling the EV, and " green" energy pollution that is running rampant.

I spent 40 years of my life fighting and cleaning up pollution. It pisses me off no end to see that hard work wiped away in a few short years by even worse pollution.

I DONT SUPPORT THE MANDATES,,

guess you didnt realize it in your mental breakdown but oil rigs are still blowing up and oil is still being spilled in large amounts,,

but who really cares about that right?? right??

now are you going to walk us through what youre going to tell elon on how to run his company or just keep ranting without saying anything??

I do wonder what battery the device youre using to tell me this has in it??

 

[westwall]

I DONT SUPPORT THE MANDATES,,

guess you didnt realize it in your mental breakdown but oil rigs are still blowing up and oil is still being spilled in large amounts,,

but who really cares about that right?? right??

now are you going to walk us through what youre going to tell elon on how to run his company or just keep ranting without saying anything??

I do wonder what battery the device youre using to tell me this has in it??

By your defense of the technology, and your willingness to live with the growing pains YOU ARE SUPPORTING them.

Every single day the third world is polluted over 1000 times worse than the oil pollution.

Every. Day.

You don't see it because they do their dirty work in third world countries, so it's only black and brown people who are being poisoned.

I am trying to educate you, not fight you.

We are pretty much on the same page, I just have dealt with pollution most of my life. You haven't.

 

[Foxfyre]

they used to and still do say the same thing about large oil fires,,

how long did it take to put out the oil well fires in kuwait after desert storm??

Oil is a fossil fuel burned for practical use in homes, businesses, etc. If the oil spill is thick enough and away from other combustible materials, they intentionally set them on fire to burn it off as oil doesn't emit all that much in hazardous emissions. Burning lithium emits so much dangerous toxins it brings out the hazmat units.

Therein is the primary difference in risk.

 

[progressive hunter]

By your defense of the technology, and your willingness to live with the growing pains YOU ARE SUPPORTING them.

Every single day the third world is polluted over 1000 times worse than the oil pollution.

Every. Day.

You don't see it because they do their dirty work in third world countries, so it's only black and brown people who are being poisoned.

I am trying to educate you, not fight you.

We are pretty much on the same page, I just have dealt with pollution most of my life. You haven't.

are you going to tell us how many cars elon is allowed to make and what goals does he need to achieve with waste disposal and fire suppression before he is allowed to make more cars??


you seem to think youre smarter than the rest of us so now is the time to educate us by answering the question