Zone1 Evidence vs Proof

[Fort Fun Indiana]

All those allegations and claims of wrong-doing by so many different people was just a bunch of conspiracies?

Correct. All complete nonsense. All lies. Every single one.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Belief is not evidence, it is belief.
The only evidence that matters is what can be legally proven in a court of law. It cannot be hearsay, and it must survive appropriate rules of evidence and procedure. Anything else is mere belief.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Total BS. Are you claiming that almost half the country believes in all sorts of CTs regarding that election?

See my Sig line. It is you to a T.

 

[task0778]

See my Sig line. It is you to a T.

Thanks for the insult. It reminds me who you are.

 

[task0778]

Belief is not evidence, it is belief.
The only evidence that matters is what can be legally proven in a court of law. It cannot be hearsay, and it must survive appropriate rules of evidence and procedure. Anything else is mere belief.

Belief in the court of public opinion matters too.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Thanks for the insult. It reminds me who you are.

It is not an insult, it is a fact. You openly admit you do not have enough facts or data to support what you believe happened in the 2020 and maybe 2022 election.

 

[Care4all]

Total BS. Are you claiming that almost half the country believes in all sorts of CTs regarding that election? All those allegations and claims of wrong-doing by so many different people was just a bunch of conspiracies? Or all one big one? Sure, paint us all with the broad-brush of nuts and fruits, we just love that. It's very helpful to divide us further as a country.

There was a full court press, telling you that story...the president, his lawyers, the Kracken, Giuliani, Wood, his administration loyalists, his loyalist congressmen, people he tried to install in the DOJ, all of the right wing bloggers, and fly by night news sites popping up, the Gateway Pundit, Just the news, Fox News, the Arizona Ninjas, the RNC, the My Pillow guy, Margery Taylor Greene,

On and on and on and on with their propaganda campaign and conspiracy after conspiracy after conspiracy, debunked, or rejected by the courts including the affidavits scam by Giuliani, which he is being disbarred for...

OF COURSE more people believe it now..... You've been inundated with propaganda, with plain ole bull shit!

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Of course it does, as far as making a determination and moving on with our lives. Nothing is 100% certain. But the complete absence of evidence is more than enough for any rational person to determine that the election was free and fair and that the Republican Liars are all lying frauds and their allegations are all false.

The fact that they made their allegations at all without a shred of evidence demonstrates quite clearly that they are all frauds. So that much has already been proven Beyond any doubt.

Historical Statistical analysis of American elections identifies the 2020 election as a severe outlier. Regardless of how blue a county is, late night dumps were made that were like 96% Biden. It’s technically possible, but so are a lot of things, like being struck by lightning twice.

I think a little humility on your side to acknowledge that it would be common for anyone to question such suspicious and gigantic imbalances that benefit your opponent.. . you guys would, and have.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Historical Statistical analysis of American elections identifies the 2020 election as a severe outlier

No it doesn't. Get that debunked lie out of here.

You have not one shred of evidence. None.

 

[task0778]

There was a full court press, telling you that story...the president, his lawyers, the Kracken, Giuliani, Wood, his administration loyalists, his loyalist congressmen, people he tried to install in the DOJ, all of the right wing bloggers, and fly by night news sites popping up, the Gateway Pundit, Just the news, Fox News, the Arizona Ninjas, the RNC, the My Pillow guy, Margery Taylor Greene,

On and on and on and on with their propaganda campaign and conspiracy after conspiracy after conspiracy, debunked, or rejected by the courts including the affidavits scam by Giuliani, which he is being disbarred for...

OF COURSE more people believe it now..... You've been inundated with propaganda, with plain ole bull shit!

And you don't think there wasn't an even larger full court press to deny any possibility of fraud? Do you think the propaganda was only one-sided? In today's world?

 

[Devils_Advocate]

Whether the earth was flat was a question of science, easily disproved by hard facts. Whether the 2020 election was fraudulent and was sufficient enough to change the outcome is a matter of opinion and politics that cannot be proved/disproved at all. Your attempt to equate the 2 issues is bullshit.

Bill Barr actually closed this book when he stated that there was not enough evidence to overturn the election.

Trump and his base lack the evidence to prove it was stolen, so a court can not and will not overturn any election just because you dislike the result.

I believe the 2000 election was stolen but my opinion is just that and I have moved on.

In the end if you believe until now it was stolen then nothing will convince you otherwise and I am not going to try.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Belief in the court of public opinion matters too.

No. If so you would not be carping about 2020.

 

[Faun]

What bothers me the most about this whole election fraud thing is that some people on both sides confuse evidence with proof. The vast majority of election fraud allegations were not dismissed based on evidence but on standing or jurisdiction. It wasn't that those cases had no merit, but there's little or no precedence or statute for a judge to base his/her ruling on, plus the basis for a lawsuit is the harm that was done to somebody. The Right can show numerous instances of questionable actions or decisions and all sorts of statistics that indicate the possibility or even probability of wrong-doing, but the problem is that real proof of fraud that resulted in the wrong person being elected or that actual harm was done hasn't been presented.

Which does not mean that there was no election fraud or that the right/correct person was elected (or not), and that is where the Left comes in. Absence of proof does not validate the election and does not mean all those allegations were false. So many on the Left hold the position that since the Right has no proof that the wrong person was elected then the election was valid and we should ignore the allegations and accept the result without further ado. Move on, nothing to see here. This despite the fact that a huge number of Americans doubted then and doubt now that elections in this country are legitimate. We won, you didn't so STFU. But any election that is believed to be suspicious ought to be scrupulously investigated, and the failure to do so is a clear indicator of a totalitarian gov't that is afraid of losing power. And if we cannot trust our election processes then we cannot trust our elected officials either and that is dangerous IMHO for our democratically elected republic.

Ok, what evidence contained in which lawsuit was rejected on lack of standing or jurisdiction...?

 

[Faun]

Total BS. Are you claiming that almost half the country believes in all sorts of CTs regarding that election? All those allegations and claims of wrong-doing by so many different people was just a bunch of conspiracies? Or all one big one? Sure, paint us all with the broad-brush of nuts and fruits, we just love that. It's very helpful to divide us further as a country.

It's not "almost half the country." It's 29%. And mostly Trump supporters (61% of Republicans) who fell for his Big Lie.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Belief in the court of public opinion matters too

That's what elections ARE. And you want to toss them out based on the lies of an orange pile of shit. So you don't get to tell anyone about the court of public opinion.

 

[Oddball]

Our govt. is not totalitarian and only a fool would so assert.

You wouldn't know a totalitarian gubmint if it was sticking a bayonet in your back and forcing you into a boxcar.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You wouldn't know a totalitarian gubmint if it was sticking a bayonet in your back and forcing you into a boxcar.

Well that was an irrelevant baby outburst.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Well that was an irrelevant baby outburst.

It's kinda his stock in trade. You see very little cogent debate from our resident self-proclaimed Anarchist/Libertarian. I've always assumed he was some sort of accelerationist here to stir the pot~

 

[Pellinore]

Total BS. Are you claiming that almost half the country believes in all sorts of CTs regarding that election? All those allegations and claims of wrong-doing by so many different people was just a bunch of conspiracies? Or all one big one? Sure, paint us all with the broad-brush of nuts and fruits, we just love that. It's very helpful to divide us further as a country.

First, as Faun has already pointed out, it was closer to a quarter. Second, yeah, that's essentially it.

Do not underestimate the power of confirmation bias.

 

[task0778]

You know what it comes down to? The Left's position is, if there's no proof then it didn't happen, case closed nothing to see here, STFU. Kinda like when OJ Simpson was found not guilty, that meant he didn't do it. No, what that meant was they couldn't prove his guilt in a court of law, but a lotta people still believe to this day that he was guilty. Same deal with the 2020 election, there WAS evidence but not enough proof that Trump shoulda won.

My position is, maybe Trump shoulda won but maybe not. We'll never really know the truth, but Biden is the prez and we accept that should move on. BUT - with so many accusations and allegations numbering over a thousand and polls indicating that almost half the people had doubts about the integrity of that election, it made sense to investigate those claims. Since it's so hard to convict anyone of election fraud, it's not hard to understand why there were so few arrests and court cases BUT that does not mean there was no fraud. As a nation how can we not address such a lack of trust? When enough people say there's a problem here, what does it say about our support for the 1st Amendment when the democrats try to squelch any and all questions and doubts? They talk about a threat to democracy, well there you are. Instead of saying okay let's check it out, the Left says STFU. We are compared to flat earthers and told we are conspiracy theorists. Yeah, that'll really help the situation, won't it?