Even If Classified Documents Were Recovered In Trump Raid, It Looks Like Chances Of Conviction Are Quite Slim

[bripat9643]

Will the next big breaking news event be the revealing of Trump's purpose for holding the documents?

And will it be suggested that he was going to attempt to sell them or trade them off to one of America's enemies?

Russia? Did Trump see the evidence as money in the bank or insurance against legal action being taken against him?

Or did he have other reasons?

Could it be that the top secret documents have already been passed on to Russia? That would seem to be as logical conclusion as anything else.

Could it be that you're the forum's biggest idiot?

 

[bripat9643]

What is the argument against intent? He took them. He kept them.

How does he say he didn’t intend to do so?

That isn't the intent required, dumbfuck.

 

[bripat9643]

Then there is also this statue...

18 U.S. Code § 1924 - Unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or material

www.law.cornell.edu

(a)
Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both.

They weren't classified, you dumb prog.

 

[Marener]

That isn't the intent required, dumbfuck.

Go back to bed.

 

[Winco]

but that they person believes the material is to be used for injury to the US. No one, even Trump haters with a brain, would think that Trump was going to use the material to cause damage to the United States.

This statute requires willful intent. So if Team Trump did not know there was classified material in the boxes, it would appear to be a successful defense against any relevant charge.

Rather than just say that I am incorrect, how about explaining why.

Because you are using the "I didn't know" defense.

 

[Jim H - VA USA]

Can we stop pretending....this wasn't about any violations of any laws......this was the democrat party using their stasi to pretend there is a reason to indict Trump.....to smear him before he has a chance to run in 2024, along with scaring his supporters, and intimidating squish republicans like Romney, Murkowski and collins....and giving cover to quisling republicans like cheney and kinzinger, and other of their ilk since both of them are going to be gone soon...

This isn't a real investigation, this is nothing more than the democrat party ramping up their police state...

So please....stop pretending ....

I understand your point; it's a good one. I agree with you that it is a political smear, but it would seem that it should backfire without a conviction.

So in effect, my premise that the charges are unlikely to stick actually further backs up your point that this is nothing but the continuation of the unjust political persecution of Biden's main opponent.

 

[dudmuck]

Idiot.......if Trump declassified documents they weren't classified.........then there were no classified documents...

But please....see post #24....this isn't about the law, or documents....this is the democrat party using the FBI as their stasi...nothing more...

the FBI was executing a search warrant issued by a federal judge. This sort of thing doesnt happen from just the FBI. It needs to come from the DOJ and a federal judge.

Also, if they were declassified, there would have been a record of it. Even if they were declassified, they still needed to be handled by the national archives.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

They weren't classified, you dumb prog.

DUDE READ THE FUCKING TITLE OF THE THREAD

even-if-classified-documents-were-recovered


What the living fuck is wrong with you? Are you truly this fucking stupid or is it just an act for the internet.

 

[bripat9643]

Go back to bed.

Take Biden's cock out of your mouth.

 

[Winco]

They weren't classified, you dumb prog.

Thanks Lawyer and ultimate insider bripat9643

But of course, .............. this ^^^^^ is NOT for you to decide.

 

[bripat9643]

the FBI was executing a search warrant issued by a federal judge. This sort of thing doesnt happen from just the FBI. It needs to come from the DOJ and a federal judge.

Also, if they were declassified, there would have been a record of it. Even if they were declassified, they still needed to be handled by the national archives.

ROFL! The FBI got a corrupt judge to issue their warrant. Garland told the FBI to do it. They all need to be locked up.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Thanks Lawyer and ultimate insider bripat9643

But of course, .............. this ^^^^^ is NOT for you to decide.

And it is not the point of the thread.

 

[bripat9643]

Thanks Lawyer and ultimate insider bripat9643

But of course, .............. this ^^^^^ is NOT for you to decide.

How am I an insider?

 

[bripat9643]

DUDE READ THE FUCKING TITLE OF THE THREAD

even-if-classified-documents-were-recovered


What the living fuck is wrong with you? Are you truly this fucking stupid or is it just an act for the internet.

I'm well aware of the thread title, dumbass.

 

[Independentthinker]

There is no reason for Trump to have taken boxes of government documents to Florida after he left office.

Zero.

Ummmmmmmmmm, all presidents have taken boxes home. It's called moving. And, everyone has known about this from day one so why did they wait a year and a half to do this, right around the kangaroo hearings and just before the midterms? Seems kind of suspicious, doesn't it?

 

[Marener]

the FBI was executing a search warrant issued by a federal judge. This sort of thing doesnt happen from just the FBI. It needs to come from the DOJ and a federal judge.

Also, if they were declassified, there would have been a record of it. Even if they were declassified, they still needed to be handled by the national archives.

This. Trump was keeping government records that were classified with no way of knowing whether Trump had declassified anything or not. Regardless of their status, they belonged to the government. If they’re actually declassified, then the public gets to see what’s in them. That’ll be the next test. Someone needs to FOIA request every one of these and see what they get back.

 

[Cellblock2429]

In the warrant (LINK), the laws allegedly broken are included....

"All physical documents and records constituting evidence, contraband, fruits of crime, or
other items illegally possessed in violation of 18 U.S.C. §§ 793, 2071 , or 1519

Here are links to the three statutes...

18 U.S. Code § 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information

www.law.cornell.edu

18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally

www.law.cornell.edu

18 U.S. Code § 1519 - Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations and bankruptcy

www.law.cornell.edu

I am not a lawyer, but my read is that it will difficult to prove violation of these statutes, even if classified material was actually seized, for the reasoning I include below (my opinions, not cut and pasted or researched anywhere).

You Biden supporters and/or Trump haters can let me know why I am wrong.

18 U.S. Code § 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information​

Whoever, for the purpose of obtaining information respecting the national defense with intent or reason to believe that the information is to be used to the injury of the United States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation...

This statute requires that the person not only be in possession of the material, but that they person believes the material is to be used for injury to the US. No one, even Trump haters with a brain, would think that Trump was going to use the material to cause damage to the United States. What was Trump planning to do, sell nuclear secrets to Kim Jong Un in exchange for billions of dollars? Release the rcords to the NYT to damage the reputation of the US? Doesn't seem credible.

18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally​

Whoever willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys, or attempts to do so, or, with intent to do so

This statute requires willful intent. So if Team Trump did not know there was classified material in the boxes, it would appear to be a successful defense against any relevant charge. Also, if there was no concealment or attempt to destroy, and Team Trump had told the FBI to come and get the material anytime it wanted to, like Trump has posted on Truth Social, then there would be no violation...
View attachment 681946

18 U.S. Code § 1519 - Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations and bankruptcy​

Whoever knowingly alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry in any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter

This statute also requires intent. It's relevance is probably that it has been reported that Trump's lawyer signed a statement saying there was no classified material at Mar-A-Lago in June....

Trump's lawyer told the DOJ that ALL classified docs were returned

One of the lawyers working for Former President Donald Trump signed a written statement in June confirming that all classified material had been returned to the government.

www.dailymail.co.uk

If that signed statement was believed to be true at the time, there is no violation of this statute.

Opinions?

/——-/ My opinion is the democrats don’t care about the fine points of the law the way they didn’t care about the Russia Collusion scam and possible election fraud. It’s all about getting Trump out of the 2024 election.

 

[Billy000]

In the warrant (LINK), the laws allegedly broken are included....

"All physical documents and records constituting evidence, contraband, fruits of crime, or
other items illegally possessed in violation of 18 U.S.C. §§ 793, 2071 , or 1519

Here are links to the three statutes...

18 U.S. Code § 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information

www.law.cornell.edu

18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally

www.law.cornell.edu

18 U.S. Code § 1519 - Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations and bankruptcy

www.law.cornell.edu

I am not a lawyer, but my read is that it will difficult to prove violation of these statutes, even if classified material was actually seized, for the reasoning I include below (my opinions, not cut and pasted or researched anywhere).

You Biden supporters and/or Trump haters can let me know why I am wrong.

18 U.S. Code § 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information​

Whoever, for the purpose of obtaining information respecting the national defense with intent or reason to believe that the information is to be used to the injury of the United States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation...

This statute requires that the person not only be in possession of the material, but that they person believes the material is to be used for injury to the US. No one, even Trump haters with a brain, would think that Trump was going to use the material to cause damage to the United States. What was Trump planning to do, sell nuclear secrets to Kim Jong Un in exchange for billions of dollars? Release the rcords to the NYT to damage the reputation of the US? Doesn't seem credible.

18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally​

Whoever willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys, or attempts to do so, or, with intent to do so

This statute requires willful intent. So if Team Trump did not know there was classified material in the boxes, it would appear to be a successful defense against any relevant charge. Also, if there was no concealment or attempt to destroy, and Team Trump had told the FBI to come and get the material anytime it wanted to, like Trump has posted on Truth Social, then there would be no violation...
View attachment 681946

18 U.S. Code § 1519 - Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations and bankruptcy​

Whoever knowingly alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry in any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter

This statute also requires intent. It's relevance is probably that it has been reported that Trump's lawyer signed a statement saying there was no classified material at Mar-A-Lago in June....

Trump's lawyer told the DOJ that ALL classified docs were returned

One of the lawyers working for Former President Donald Trump signed a written statement in June confirming that all classified material had been returned to the government.

www.dailymail.co.uk

If that signed statement was believed to be true at the time, there is no violation of this statute.

Opinions?

I didn’t bother reading any of this. What I will say is that I agree a conviction isn’t likely. Some things are just too good to be true, unfortunately. It would still be cathartic and satisfying to see him in handcuffs, however. Ah, talk about bliss. Hopefully the media image capturing it is spread far and wide and it will endure for the rest of time!

 

[Marener]

Ummmmmmmmmm, all presidents have done this. And, everyone has known about this from day one so why did they wait a year and a half to do this, right around the kangaroo hearings and just before the midterms? Seems kind of suspicious, doesn't it?

Negative on all counts.

All presidents don’t secretly cart off boxes of classified information.

And no, everyone did not know about this from “day one”.

 

[Winco]

How am I an insider?

By pretending to KNOW what was classified or NOT.

They weren't classified,

OK Mr. Pretend Insider.