Even at $10/barrel, oil can’t match solar on cost

[Old Rocks]

Plus a citizen cannot produce their own oil, but the can produce their own electricity. It is called independence, something our 'Conservatives' hate the thought of.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Plus a citizen cannot produce their own oil, but the can produce their own electricity. It is called independence, something our 'Conservatives' hate the thought of.

but the can produce their own electricity

How?

It is called independence, something our 'Conservatives' hate the thought of.

Be as independent as you want.
Without solar subsidies and without forcing the power company to buy your excess.

 

[bripat9643]

Plus a citizen cannot produce their own oil, but the can produce their own electricity. It is called independence, something our 'Conservatives' hate the thought of.

but the can produce their own electricity

How?

It is called independence, something our 'Conservatives' hate the thought of.

Be as independent as you want.
Without solar subsidies and without forcing the power company to buy your excess.

He should also take himself off the grid and freeze to death when the sun doesn't come out for three or four days.

 

[ralfy]

Plus a citizen cannot produce their own oil, but the can produce their own electricity. It is called independence, something our 'Conservatives' hate the thought of.

Electricity is stored, distributed, and used using multiple components, including charge controllers, wires, inverters, batteries, and all types of consumer goods. These involve extensive mining, manufacturing, and shipping operations, in several cases on a global scale.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Well, considering that oil is a consumable, meaning that once you use it it's gone, and considering that the only money you have to sink into wind and solar energy once it's built is that required for maintenance, yeah...........I think that it's cheaper right now to build wind farms and solar farms than it is to drill or frack a new well.

and considering that the only money you have to sink into wind and solar energy once it's built is that required for maintenance,

And replacing it every 20 years or so.

And the occasional hail storm or tornado.

Quick couple of questions...................

How often do the energy companies have to replace their pumps?

And.......................are oil wells impervious to the occasional hail storm or tornado?

I'm guessing that the windmills and solar panels would fare better than oil pumps from a direct hit.

 

[bripat9643]

Well, considering that oil is a consumable, meaning that once you use it it's gone, and considering that the only money you have to sink into wind and solar energy once it's built is that required for maintenance, yeah...........I think that it's cheaper right now to build wind farms and solar farms than it is to drill or frack a new well.

and considering that the only money you have to sink into wind and solar energy once it's built is that required for maintenance,

And replacing it every 20 years or so.

And the occasional hail storm or tornado.

Quick couple of questions...................

How often do the energy companies have to replace their pumps?

Never. They are simple devices that are very solidly built. They can last 100 years.

And.......................are oil wells impervious to the occasional hail storm or tornado?

Yes they are.

I'm guessing that the windmills and solar panels would fare better than oil pumps from a direct hit.

Your guessing dead wrong. Windmills fail in high winds all the time. Solar panels are made of glass. That's not exactly a robust material, especially in a hail storm. They are easily destroyed by flying debris.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Keep telling yourself that is true.

We are going against that and will prove what is true.

 

[bripat9643]

Keep telling yourself that is true.

We are going against that and will prove what is true.

Go right ahead. I'm curious to see this "proof."

 

[warf]

Living in the largest off-grid community in Northern California I have a little experience with solar power.

With only 1000 watts of PV array one can live quite well. With 2000W your house would be like the average on-grid home.

You just have to use your common sense. Use gas for heating water and cooking and electricity for most everything else.

The technology for off-grid living has improved rapidly and is still evolving.

It works. It works well and is probably going to be the norm in a few years.

 

[waltky]

Oil prices could slide lower...

Oil prices seen under pressure as Paris attacks spark demand worries
Sun Nov 15, 2015 - Prices of oil and other commodities will come under renewed pressure on Monday on fears that Friday night's deadly attacks on Paris will further slow the global economy.

Oil is already trading near its six-year lows and healthy demand has been a major factor preventing the prices from sliding any lower amid a worsening global oil glut due to abundant supplies. At least 129 people were killed on Friday evening in a series of coordinated attacks on Paris with Islamist militants claiming responsibility for the carnage. "Currently sentiment is really bearish, so this could be seen as hurting demand, so oil prices could fall further," said Amrita Sen from Energy Aspects.

Sen added that a short-term sell-off could, however, be followed in the mid-term by a rally if people think events in Paris could lead to a serious escalation of tensions in the Middle East. Analysts from Eurasia Group said the attacks will likely undermine the French government's ability to focus attention on the improving economy. Looking at the broader financial repercussions, global stocks are set for a short-term sell-off on Monday but few strategists expect a prolonged economic impact or change in prevailing market directions.

ActivTrades chief analyst Carlo Alberto de Casa and Ed Meir, analyst at INTL FCStone, both said they expect a moderate rebound in gold prices given that equities and commodities were poised to be hit. "People in France are in shock. They are not doing much shopping and that could last for a few days," said Olivier Jakob from Petromatrix consultancy. "The rest of the world is not as deeply affected to change consumer behavior," said Jakob adding that the bearish impact of Paris attacks would likely be short-lived. "The attack could however result in a re-calibration of France's foreign policy and positioning in the Middle East," he added.

MORE

See also:

Global markets brace for short-term hit after Paris attacks
Nov 15, 2015: Global stocks are set for a short-term sell-off on Monday after Islamist militants launched coordinated attacks across Paris that killed 129 people, but analysts said a prolonged economic impact or market reaction was unlikely.

President Francois Hollande has declared a state of emergency, ordering police and troops into the streets, and set three days of official mourning after the attacks he called an "act of war" by Islamic State. The carnage prompted condemnation by world leaders and outpourings of support for Parisians from around the globe, but would likely have only a knee-jerk impact on investment decisions, said Shane Oliver, chief economist at Australia's AMP Capital in Sydney. "History will tell us that if the economic impact is limited - and I think it will be - that markets will quickly recover and go on to focus on other things," Oliver, who is also head of strategy at the A$156 billion ($111 billion) wealth management firm.

While news of the attacks hit after markets closed on Friday, S&P 500 Index futures were still trading and shed about 1 percent in light volume. "If this had happened during market trading hours there could have been a panic but markets had a weekend to digest all the information," said Eiji Kinouchi, chief technical analyst at Daiwa Securities in Tokyo. With Wall Street closing more than 1 percent lower after weak US retail sales figures, Asian and European share markets would have been expected to fall even without the Paris attacks

French stocks, particularly those exposed to the country's large tourism sector, are likely to suffer the biggest falls. France has the largest number of tourists in the world and the sector accounts for almost 7.5 percent of GDP. "These Paris terrorist attacks and the larger scale of this attack could have a meaningful negative impact on the travel and tourism sector," said Robert T. Lutts, president and chief investment officer at Cabot Wealth Management in Salem, Massachusetts. "It is possible this could cause investors to take a bit more cautious stance on the higher risk sectors of the markets."

MORE

 

[flacaltenn]

Depletion allowance, for one. No, depletion allowance for wind or sun.

Depletion allowances are similar to asset depreciation. If Ford Motor can depreciate their assembly robots, then oil companies ought to be allowed to depreciate their assets.

Actually -- I don't know for a fact -- but I'll bet a hamburger that since solar panels have a limited lifetime --- they ARE allowed to take depreciation on the assets.

 

[flacaltenn]

Even at $10/barrel, oil can’t match solar on cost

One of the biggest banks in the Middle East and the oil-rich Gulf countries says that fossil fuels can no longer compete with solar technologies on price, and says the vast bulk of the $US48 trillion needed to meet global power demand over the next two decades will come from renewables.

The report from the National Bank of Abu Dhabi says that while oil and gas has underpinned almost all energy investments until now, future investment will be almost entirely in renewable energy sources.
“Cost is no longer a reason not to proceed with renewables,” the 80-page NBAD report says. It says the most recent solar tender showed even at $10/barrel for oil, and $5/mmbtu for gas, solar is still a cheaper option.

And we all know that black crap is going to go up in price in the future! Solar can only get cheaper and will as far as we're concerned won't run out.

Matthew.. I'm sure you've heard this, but maybe you forgot. Oil does not compete in the same markets as solar. They are not an either/or choice. One powers transportation, the other produces electricity.

The only places oil is used to generate electricity are very sparse and remote..

 

[CultureCitizen]

Even at $10/barrel, oil can’t match solar on cost

One of the biggest banks in the Middle East and the oil-rich Gulf countries says that fossil fuels can no longer compete with solar technologies on price, and says the vast bulk of the $US48 trillion needed to meet global power demand over the next two decades will come from renewables.

The report from the National Bank of Abu Dhabi says that while oil and gas has underpinned almost all energy investments until now, future investment will be almost entirely in renewable energy sources.
“Cost is no longer a reason not to proceed with renewables,” the 80-page NBAD report says. It says the most recent solar tender showed even at $10/barrel for oil, and $5/mmbtu for gas, solar is still a cheaper option.

And we all know that black crap is going to go up in price in the future! Solar can only get cheaper and will as far as we're concerned won't run out.

Matthew.. I'm sure you've heard this, but maybe you forgot. Oil does not compete in the same markets as solar. They are not an either/or choice. One powers transportation, the other produces electricity.

The only places oil is used to generate electricity are very sparse and remote..

With some luck we'll get fusion by 2040 and then electric vehicles will be powered by clean electric energy.
Even then we'll still need oil : many products use oil as a raw material.
Mathew,
I've done the math several times, even without the storage costs ( which are a big problem ) solar only defeats oil above $60 per barrel, maybe $50 in sunny tropical zones. As much as I like solar and clean energy I must admit current oil prices are not helping ( they stopped fracking too , so I guess it's a mixed blessing).

 

[DarkFury]

Even at $10/barrel, oil can’t match solar on cost

One of the biggest banks in the Middle East and the oil-rich Gulf countries says that fossil fuels can no longer compete with solar technologies on price, and says the vast bulk of the $US48 trillion needed to meet global power demand over the next two decades will come from renewables.

The report from the National Bank of Abu Dhabi says that while oil and gas has underpinned almost all energy investments until now, future investment will be almost entirely in renewable energy sources.
“Cost is no longer a reason not to proceed with renewables,” the 80-page NBAD report says. It says the most recent solar tender showed even at $10/barrel for oil, and $5/mmbtu for gas, solar is still a cheaper option.

And we all know that black crap is going to go up in price in the future! Solar can only get cheaper and will as far as we're concerned won't run out.

Matthew.. I'm sure you've heard this, but maybe you forgot. Oil does not compete in the same markets as solar. They are not an either/or choice. One powers transportation, the other produces electricity.

The only places oil is used to generate electricity are very sparse and remote..

Not to mention there are places in this world and this country where there is not enough sun year round. Sections of Alaska only get a VERY few hours of sun during the winter. Solar is simply not going to help them.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Even at $10/barrel, oil can’t match solar on cost

One of the biggest banks in the Middle East and the oil-rich Gulf countries says that fossil fuels can no longer compete with solar technologies on price, and says the vast bulk of the $US48 trillion needed to meet global power demand over the next two decades will come from renewables.

The report from the National Bank of Abu Dhabi says that while oil and gas has underpinned almost all energy investments until now, future investment will be almost entirely in renewable energy sources.
“Cost is no longer a reason not to proceed with renewables,” the 80-page NBAD report says. It says the most recent solar tender showed even at $10/barrel for oil, and $5/mmbtu for gas, solar is still a cheaper option.

And we all know that black crap is going to go up in price in the future! Solar can only get cheaper and will as far as we're concerned won't run out.

Matthew.. I'm sure you've heard this, but maybe you forgot. Oil does not compete in the same markets as solar. They are not an either/or choice. One powers transportation, the other produces electricity.

The only places oil is used to generate electricity are very sparse and remote..

Not to mention there are places in this world and this country where there is not enough sun year round. Sections of Alaska only get a VERY few hours of sun during the winter. Solar is simply not going to help them.

What about during the summer time when Alaska is known as "The Land of the Midnight Sun"?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Even at $10/barrel, oil can’t match solar on cost

One of the biggest banks in the Middle East and the oil-rich Gulf countries says that fossil fuels can no longer compete with solar technologies on price, and says the vast bulk of the $US48 trillion needed to meet global power demand over the next two decades will come from renewables.

The report from the National Bank of Abu Dhabi says that while oil and gas has underpinned almost all energy investments until now, future investment will be almost entirely in renewable energy sources.
“Cost is no longer a reason not to proceed with renewables,” the 80-page NBAD report says. It says the most recent solar tender showed even at $10/barrel for oil, and $5/mmbtu for gas, solar is still a cheaper option.

And we all know that black crap is going to go up in price in the future! Solar can only get cheaper and will as far as we're concerned won't run out.

Matthew.. I'm sure you've heard this, but maybe you forgot. Oil does not compete in the same markets as solar. They are not an either/or choice. One powers transportation, the other produces electricity.

The only places oil is used to generate electricity are very sparse and remote..

Not to mention there are places in this world and this country where there is not enough sun year round. Sections of Alaska only get a VERY few hours of sun during the winter. Solar is simply not going to help them.

What about during the summer time when Alaska is known as "The Land of the Midnight Sun"?

Maybe they can store the solar energy for 6 months.............LOL!

 

[DarkFury]

Even at $10/barrel, oil can’t match solar on cost

One of the biggest banks in the Middle East and the oil-rich Gulf countries says that fossil fuels can no longer compete with solar technologies on price, and says the vast bulk of the $US48 trillion needed to meet global power demand over the next two decades will come from renewables.

The report from the National Bank of Abu Dhabi says that while oil and gas has underpinned almost all energy investments until now, future investment will be almost entirely in renewable energy sources.
“Cost is no longer a reason not to proceed with renewables,” the 80-page NBAD report says. It says the most recent solar tender showed even at $10/barrel for oil, and $5/mmbtu for gas, solar is still a cheaper option.

And we all know that black crap is going to go up in price in the future! Solar can only get cheaper and will as far as we're concerned won't run out.

Matthew.. I'm sure you've heard this, but maybe you forgot. Oil does not compete in the same markets as solar. They are not an either/or choice. One powers transportation, the other produces electricity.

The only places oil is used to generate electricity are very sparse and remote..

Not to mention there are places in this world and this country where there is not enough sun year round. Sections of Alaska only get a VERY few hours of sun during the winter. Solar is simply not going to help them.

What about during the summer time when Alaska is known as "The Land of the Midnight Sun"?

So we put signs on the highways leading to Alaska "Closed for Winter"? There are places it WOULD help and there are places it would NOT help.

 

[ABikerSailor]

The poster said that because of the short days during the winter in Alaska, solar power would do no good.

I brought up the fact that the sun shines for 24 hours a day up there during the summer.

Use solar in the summer, store as much as you can via battery, and then, when the batteries get low, switch back to fossil fuels.

That way you could make the fossil fuels last twice as long.

 

[flacaltenn]

Even at $10/barrel, oil can’t match solar on cost

One of the biggest banks in the Middle East and the oil-rich Gulf countries says that fossil fuels can no longer compete with solar technologies on price, and says the vast bulk of the $US48 trillion needed to meet global power demand over the next two decades will come from renewables.

The report from the National Bank of Abu Dhabi says that while oil and gas has underpinned almost all energy investments until now, future investment will be almost entirely in renewable energy sources.
“Cost is no longer a reason not to proceed with renewables,” the 80-page NBAD report says. It says the most recent solar tender showed even at $10/barrel for oil, and $5/mmbtu for gas, solar is still a cheaper option.

And we all know that black crap is going to go up in price in the future! Solar can only get cheaper and will as far as we're concerned won't run out.

Matthew.. I'm sure you've heard this, but maybe you forgot. Oil does not compete in the same markets as solar. They are not an either/or choice. One powers transportation, the other produces electricity.

The only places oil is used to generate electricity are very sparse and remote..

Not to mention there are places in this world and this country where there is not enough sun year round. Sections of Alaska only get a VERY few hours of sun during the winter. Solar is simply not going to help them.

What about during the summer time when Alaska is known as "The Land of the Midnight Sun"?

Even then the sun angle is too low to operate at useful efficiencies. That doesn't mean it can't be used in remote areas. But it does mean that it's not a reliable or economic backbone generator for most of the demand.

There are charts that show solar radiation at different times of year for the globe. You'll see that summertime radiation in Alaska would be operating the panels at VERY low efficiencies. And at low efficiencies -- you have nothing left to store.

 

[DarkFury]

The poster said that because of the short days during the winter in Alaska, solar power would do no good.

I brought up the fact that the sun shines for 24 hours a day up there during the summer.

Use solar in the summer, store as much as you can via battery, and then, when the batteries get low, switch back to fossil fuels.

That way you could make the fossil fuels last twice as long.

How about you start in states it would work YEAR ROUND and NOT flex fuel the states it will not?