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My grandpa was 72 and about 4 months passed the date his doctor said he'd die from cancer.
The whole time though things were decent, he was losing his bodily functions but my dad works in a hospital and I was there so we helped him with all that stuff and it wasn't a big problem. (we essentially moved in with him his last 4-6 months).
However on his last day my grandpa woke up wailing in pain, you could tell he was in total agony, my dad just kept giving him more and more and more liquid morphine and my grandpa kept taking it until he essentially fell asleep/passed out and he never woke up. So my dad basically euthanized him rather than putting him through continuous unbearable pain until he was most certainly going to die anyway that same day.
Morally, I've always been proud of what my dad did. Hopefully in the same circumstances my son does the same for me.
I would not call what your dad did euthanasia. He allowed your grandpa to die naturally and pain free. It's good hospice care.
I was with my father when we removed him from life support. It was a gut wrenching decision but we had no choice. It took an hour and a half for him to eventually die
I have also been with several pets that we have had to put down. The process takes a few seconds and they just pass away
I think we are more humane with our pets than with those we love
Removing someone from life support isn't really euthanasia, in my eyes. People have that option regardless of whether or not euthanasia is legal, and always have.
I know there are cases where people have fought over whether or not do remove life support, and it has turned into a euthanasia issue, because one party is just hardline "let them die!!" and the other party wants to maintain them...but euthanasia is the legalized killing of patients based upon the perception by doctors and family that their life is worthless.
And this is what happens...we've removed all sense of responsibility of family from the process of death. Not only do they no longer bear the financial burden for the most part, they don't have to provide care any more, either. And the result of that is when they DO see pain, suffering, and the advent of death, they freak out..."KILL THEM OFF KILL THEM OFF OH THE HUMANITY!"
Grow up. Dying is a part of death. You don't get to hurry it along, or make the decision for other people that it's their time.
I would not call what your dad did euthanasia. He allowed your grandpa to die naturally and pain free. It's good hospice care.
administering a lethal dose of opiates IS euthanasia. if he was hospitalized he would have been denied lethal doses of opiates no matter how much pain he was in.
First of all, we don't know that a lethal dose was administered. We know he was given morphine for his pain, PRN. That is standard hospice practice. Oral morphine solution begins working quickly, usually within 15 minutes. It only lasts for 4 hours; however, so some patients may find they have to use it often.
administering a lethal dose of opiates IS euthanasia. if he was hospitalized he would have been denied lethal doses of opiates no matter how much pain he was in.
First of all, we don't know that a lethal dose was administered. We know he was given morphine for his pain, PRN. That is standard hospice practice. Oral morphine solution begins working quickly, usually within 15 minutes. It only lasts for 4 hours; however, so some patients may find they have to use it often.
Sorry but the description of the scenario was that of an overdose.
administering a lethal dose of opiates IS euthanasia. if he was hospitalized he would have been denied lethal doses of opiates no matter how much pain he was in.
First of all, we don't know that a lethal dose was administered. We know he was given morphine for his pain, PRN. That is standard hospice practice. Oral morphine solution begins working quickly, usually within 15 minutes. It only lasts for 4 hours; however, so some patients may find they have to use it often.
Sorry but the description of the scenario was that of an overdose.
Euthanasia isn't allowing people who are dying a peaceful option. It's legalizing murder for convenience sake. That's the long and short of it.
7 days in a hospital bed staring at the ceiling, not being able to eat, or take fluids by mouth convinced me that I would rather die swiftly then lay there with a tube in my cock pissing in a can, and having a nurse wipe shit off my legs while days of our lives plays in the background is not how I want to spend my last days, hours of life. Get it done, or I will spend every ounce of strength I have to do it my self.
However, there is a difference between Euthanasia and Assisted Suicide.
Obviously you recovered from your experience in the hospital. If Euthanasia were legal, whoever is the beneficiary of your life insurance policy could have pulled the plug on you on day six of your hospital stay and we would not have the pleasure of your presence here with us.
That is the problem with Euthanasia. I have mixed feelings about Assisted Suicide. I have no mixed feelings about Euthanasia. Euthanasia is an out for the greedy and the murderous.
Immie
Perhaps for future reference it may be best to not post such negative things.
First of all, we don't know that a lethal dose was administered. We know he was given morphine for his pain, PRN. That is standard hospice practice. Oral morphine solution begins working quickly, usually within 15 minutes. It only lasts for 4 hours; however, so some patients may find they have to use it often.
Sorry but the description of the scenario was that of an overdose.
We don't know that, and we don't know what instructions he had from the doctor or nurse. If the morphine orders were for PRN, (per required need), then it is up to the caregiver. No harm, no foul.
Read the explanation in the post just below from a board certified hospice MD and you'll better understand.Sorry but the description of the scenario was that of an overdose.
We don't know that, and we don't know what instructions he had from the doctor or nurse. If the morphine orders were for PRN, (per required need), then it is up to the caregiver. No harm, no foul.
Drock described it as "giving more and more morphine"
Now I don't know where you come from but that phrase did not describe a by the directions dosing.
"I want to assure you that giving morphine prn to an actively dying patient is most definitely not "euthenasia" in any way, shape or form. PRN doses of opioids are usually ordered in a dose that is immediate release, short-acting and at insufficient dose levels to "hasten a death". The intent of the morphine is to alleviate the symptoms associated with the dying process. I have seen some patients who come to me actively dying with poorly controlled symptoms. Their uncontrolled pain causes them to produce increased adrenaline, which in turn can actually cause the patient to "linger". At this point, I will inform the families of this and let them know, that with their permission, we will give the patient a little bit of morphine to get the patient comfortable, and that once they get comfortable---that will allow them to "let go". It is not the medicine that is killing them--it is the underlying disease. We cannot change the final outcome--death; however, we can change the way it happens (ie, die comfortably, instead of die in pain)."
Spiritual Beliefs and End of Life Care - Page 2- Nursing for Nurses
"I want to assure you that giving morphine prn to an actively dying patient is most definitely not "euthenasia" in any way, shape or form. PRN doses of opioids are usually ordered in a dose that is immediate release, short-acting and at insufficient dose levels to "hasten a death". The intent of the morphine is to alleviate the symptoms associated with the dying process. I have seen some patients who come to me actively dying with poorly controlled symptoms. Their uncontrolled pain causes them to produce increased adrenaline, which in turn can actually cause the patient to "linger". At this point, I will inform the families of this and let them know, that with their permission, we will give the patient a little bit of morphine to get the patient comfortable, and that once they get comfortable---that will allow them to "let go". It is not the medicine that is killing them--it is the underlying disease. We cannot change the final outcome--death; however, we can change the way it happens (ie, die comfortably, instead of die in pain)."
Spiritual Beliefs and End of Life Care - Page 2- Nursing for Nurses
You are forgetting that in Drock's scenario the morphine was not given by a doctor and again the phrase more and more denotes that increasing dosages were given.
Morphine depresses respiration and in high enough doses causes respiratory arrest.
"I want to assure you that giving morphine prn to an actively dying patient is most definitely not "euthenasia" in any way, shape or form. PRN doses of opioids are usually ordered in a dose that is immediate release, short-acting and at insufficient dose levels to "hasten a death". The intent of the morphine is to alleviate the symptoms associated with the dying process. I have seen some patients who come to me actively dying with poorly controlled symptoms. Their uncontrolled pain causes them to produce increased adrenaline, which in turn can actually cause the patient to "linger". At this point, I will inform the families of this and let them know, that with their permission, we will give the patient a little bit of morphine to get the patient comfortable, and that once they get comfortable---that will allow them to "let go". It is not the medicine that is killing them--it is the underlying disease. We cannot change the final outcome--death; however, we can change the way it happens (ie, die comfortably, instead of die in pain)."
Spiritual Beliefs and End of Life Care - Page 2- Nursing for Nurses
You are forgetting that in Drock's scenario the morphine was not given by a doctor and again the phrase more and more denotes that increasing dosages were given.
Morphine depresses respiration and in high enough doses causes respiratory arrest.
It is unusual for a doctor to be present when a patient is dying at home. It is much more likely the caregiver, in Drock's case, a family member, administered the morphine on a PRN basis.
The intent, was to keep the patient from dying in extreme pain and agitation. Drock's grandpa was actively dying before the morphine was administered.
You are forgetting that in Drock's scenario the morphine was not given by a doctor and again the phrase more and more denotes that increasing dosages were given.
Morphine depresses respiration and in high enough doses causes respiratory arrest.
It is unusual for a doctor to be present when a patient is dying at home. It is much more likely the caregiver, in Drock's case, a family member, administered the morphine on a PRN basis.
The intent, was to keep the patient from dying in extreme pain and agitation. Drock's grandpa was actively dying before the morphine was administered.
And if the intent causes death it is euthanasia.
7 days in a hospital bed staring at the ceiling, not being able to eat, or take fluids by mouth convinced me that I would rather die swiftly then lay there with a tube in my cock pissing in a can, and having a nurse wipe shit off my legs while days of our lives plays in the background is not how I want to spend my last days, hours of life. Get it done, or I will spend every ounce of strength I have to do it my self.
However, there is a difference between Euthanasia and Assisted Suicide.
Obviously you recovered from your experience in the hospital. If Euthanasia were legal, whoever is the beneficiary of your life insurance policy could have pulled the plug on you on day six of your hospital stay and we would not have the pleasure of your presence here with us.
That is the problem with Euthanasia. I have mixed feelings about Assisted Suicide. I have no mixed feelings about Euthanasia. Euthanasia is an out for the greedy and the murderous.
Immie
Immie, your opinion about euthanasia may only reveal to you your own heart...
Accordingly to my father, who I am a Medical Power of Attorney to, he would be offended and hurt if I were to reject his life insurance policy BUT NO MORE offended or hurt than I would be if he choose to have someone else to take care of him in his last days that was less equipped than I am. I would not deny him his companions but I would HOPE to be one of his favored caretakers. The money isn't much more than a way to provide the means to me. Sadly, even the most devoted and well-meaning medical practitioners have found that the best medical care does cost the most money, but it won't change the heart of matter for those of us who are from nothing and who can be resourceful enough to accomplish much with little.
"I want to assure you that giving morphine prn to an actively dying patient is most definitely not "euthenasia" in any way, shape or form. PRN doses of opioids are usually ordered in a dose that is immediate release, short-acting and at insufficient dose levels to "hasten a death". The intent of the morphine is to alleviate the symptoms associated with the dying process. I have seen some patients who come to me actively dying with poorly controlled symptoms. Their uncontrolled pain causes them to produce increased adrenaline, which in turn can actually cause the patient to "linger". At this point, I will inform the families of this and let them know, that with their permission, we will give the patient a little bit of morphine to get the patient comfortable, and that once they get comfortable---that will allow them to "let go". It is not the medicine that is killing them--it is the underlying disease. We cannot change the final outcome--death; however, we can change the way it happens (ie, die comfortably, instead of die in pain)."
Spiritual Beliefs and End of Life Care - Page 2- Nursing for Nurses
You are forgetting that in Drock's scenario the morphine was not given by a doctor and again the phrase more and more denotes that increasing dosages were given.
Morphine depresses respiration and in high enough doses causes respiratory arrest.
If morphine was withheld then he may have lingered for days in agony before the disease killed him. Morphine in high doses hurries it along.
Did you ever think that a doctor has to describe an overdose of morphine in the way you quoted so as to keep his license since intentionally overdosing a patient to relieve suffering is illegal?
It is unusual for a doctor to be present when a patient is dying at home. It is much more likely the caregiver, in Drock's case, a family member, administered the morphine on a PRN basis.
The intent, was to keep the patient from dying in extreme pain and agitation. Drock's grandpa was actively dying before the morphine was administered.
And if the intent causes death it is euthanasia.
The Medical Board has ruled otherwise. This situation is one reason it is so important to have hospice involved. If you want someone you love to die naturally and without pain, morphine is necessary in many cases. The MD I just quoted spoke to the adrenaline surge in pain prolonging life. Do you want to prolong your loved one's life when he or she is in that much pain?
Skull and Sky you both make good points. None of us can say for certain if he would've died at the exact same time or even the exact same day without the morphine.
However IF he would've lingered on another handful of hours or a day in excruciating pain because the option of a lethal dose of morphine was taken away I would take serious moral issue with that.
