Euthanasia

[rightwinger]

Forced by who? Ultimately, any person can take their life if they have the bare minimal ability. I object to them turfing that out to to the medical community.

Forced by archaic laws that are more concerned with religious opposition to a dignified end of life than the needs and desires of those who are suffering

That might be true, but you are still putting the responsibility of ending life on people who most likely don't want it.

Dr Jack had a solution to that

 

[Sky Dancer]

I was not making such comments to support in any way euthanizing the deemed mentally "ill". To the contrary, I support better educating the masses about BOTH.

I didn't mean to imply you were. I meant to state we go out of our way to prevent the suicidal from harming themselves.

That is a different issue. If someone wants to end their lives... IMO it should be their choice and decision.

I rest my case. You would do NOTHING to help them live.

I lost a family member to suicide. I would do EVERYTHING in my power to prevent that happening to anyone else.

 

[Skull Pilot]

If Syrenn knew someone was suicidal she'd probably lend them her gun.

If a person wants to die why would you force them to live?

There is a difference between crisis counseling someone who is suicidal and "forcing them to live".

I'm just saying that respect for life is low on Syrenn's list. She is into executing, and taking the lives of those who are terminally ill.

I trust she would lend a gun to someone who was suicidal rather than try and help them.

Why do you assume that someone who wants to commit suicide is in crisis?

And if someone who is terminally ill wants to die who are you to tell them they must live?

 

[Sky Dancer]

Forced by archaic laws that are more concerned with religious opposition to a dignified end of life than the needs and desires of those who are suffering

That might be true, but you are still putting the responsibility of ending life on people who most likely don't want it.

Dr Jack had a solution to that

True story. I knew Dr Jack's first assisted suicide victim.

 

[geauxtohell]

Oh please. I say "God" and "soul" in a post and that automatically removes my objectivity on this matter?

I admittedly am influenced by Freud's (et al) thinking on the matter of usage in ordinary speech. But if I happen to be far off base in this example, I apologize.

Of all the people on this thread, I am one of a handful of people whose thoughts and opinions are going to translate into actions. I'll have a DEA number if I finish school. So, you can dismiss my opinions because you deem them as "subjective". Here's some objective fact for you: I will follow the law and I will do what I deem to be right, regardless of what you think about it.

If your will is to follow the law it doesn't get more secular than that. But I suggest what you deem to be right today and what you might think is right after years of practice could be quite different (as per Dr. Jack Kevorkian's comments on his own change of attitude).


It is an extremely relevant concept in this discussion.

I can assure you, if anyone grieves more over the death of a pet then a human, their priorities are seriously out of whack.

I believe that depends on certain factors, such as the specific pet and the specific human.

My friend Lou has a Golden Retriever whom he dearly loves. But Lou, who is an essentially gentle soul and a genuinely nice person, is married to a Harpy. If I were married to that woman and could not free myself from her I would plot to kill her for the insurance money. If I were Lou there is no doubt in my mind whose death I would mourn and whose I would celebrate. So on this matter we strongly disagree.

I will also say that if I were a physician attending Dick Cheney who was dying of the most painful kind of cancer I would not euthanize him -- even if it were legal. In fact I would do my best to keep him alive and conscious for as long as I could.

And before we go there, I grew up on a farm. I had to euthanize a lot of livestock growing up. I will never make my son take part in that. I don't blame my family for having me in the process. I just now know that it's not something a young person should be tasked with doing.

Do you mean euthanize as in merciful dispatch to end a creature's suffering? Or do you mean slaughter?

I would not hesitate to euthanize a suffering animal but slaughtering is quite another thing.

I meant merciful dispatch. Usually with a handgun to end the suffering of an animal that was in pain and it wasn't always a pleasant ordeal, but we didn't have access to morphine or something pleasant. I wouldn't put my kid through that. I wouldn't know the first thing about butchering, though I have no objections to it. I like meat.

 

[geauxtohell]

I was not making such comments to support in any way euthanizing the deemed mentally "ill". To the contrary, I support better educating the masses about BOTH.

I didn't mean to imply you were. I meant to state we go out of our way to prevent the suicidal from harming themselves.

If Syrenn knew someone was suicidal she'd probably lend them her gun.

I'd rather not get in between you two cats. It's turned down right nasty and personal.

 

[syrenn]

I was not making such comments to support in any way euthanizing the deemed mentally "ill". To the contrary, I support better educating the masses about BOTH.

I didn't mean to imply you were. I meant to state we go out of our way to prevent the suicidal from harming themselves.

If Syrenn knew someone was suicidal she'd probably lend them her gun.

Guns sometimes don't to a good job. It could leave someone worse off then before.

 

[geauxtohell]

I was not making such comments to support in any way euthanizing the deemed mentally "ill". To the contrary, I support better educating the masses about BOTH.

I didn't mean to imply you were. I meant to state we go out of our way to prevent the suicidal from harming themselves.

That is a different issue. If someone wants to end their lives... IMO it should be their choice and decision.

Not on our watch, and especially not for psych patients who probably lack mental capacity to assess the consequences of their actions.

99% of the SI cases I've seen have been either psych or substance related. If a person wants to kill themselves, they usually have ample places to do it.

The one place not to do it is the hospital, because we aren't going to let you walk out the door.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I didn't mean to imply you were. I meant to state we go out of our way to prevent the suicidal from harming themselves.

If Syrenn knew someone was suicidal she'd probably lend them her gun.

Guns sometimes don't to a good job. It could leave someone worse off then before.

Oh, I'm sure you'd help them kill themselves some other way then. Something more coldly efficient.

I will do whatever it takes to prevent suicide. I know what it's like to lose someone.

 

[geauxtohell]

Forced by archaic laws that are more concerned with religious opposition to a dignified end of life than the needs and desires of those who are suffering

That might be true, but you are still putting the responsibility of ending life on people who most likely don't want it.

Dr Jack had a solution to that

I don't have a problem with Physician Assisted Suicide. I think the "Death with Dignity" act will one day be a reality in all 50 states, as it should be.

I just object to putting the responsibility or task into someone elses hands. Soon the arguement will be "only people with medical licenses should be allowed to do this medical procedure because they are trained about the human body" which is just a bullshit cover to turf it out to people that want no part of it.

Kavorkian went too far. After a while it stopped being about the patients and more about his own ego.

 

[syrenn]

I didn't mean to imply you were. I meant to state we go out of our way to prevent the suicidal from harming themselves.

That is a different issue. If someone wants to end their lives... IMO it should be their choice and decision.

Not on our watch, and especially not for psych patients who probably lack mental capacity to assess the consequences of their actions.

99% of the SI cases I've seen have been either psych or substance related. If a person wants to kill themselves, they usually have ample places to do it.

The one place not to do it is the hospital, because we aren't going to let you walk out the door.

I know....

 

[syrenn]

If Syrenn knew someone was suicidal she'd probably lend them her gun.

Guns sometimes don't to a good job. It could leave someone worse off then before.

Oh, I'm sure you'd help them kill themselves some other way then. Something more coldly efficient.

I will do whatever it takes to prevent suicide. I know what it's like to lose someone.

So its about YOU and what you feel and want.... not about them and what they want. That is my point.

 

[syrenn]

That might be true, but you are still putting the responsibility of ending life on people who most likely don't want it.

Dr Jack had a solution to that

I don't have a problem with Physician Assisted Suicide. I think the "Death with Dignity" act will one day be a reality in all 50 states, as it should be.

I just object to putting the responsibility or task into someone elses hands. Soon the arguement will be "only people with medical licenses should be allowed to do this medical procedure because they are trained about the human body" which is just a bullshit cover to turf it out to people that want no part of it.

Kavorkian went too far. After a while it stopped being about the patients and more about his own ego.

And there it is.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Guns sometimes don't to a good job. It could leave someone worse off then before.

Oh, I'm sure you'd help them kill themselves some other way then. Something more coldly efficient.

I will do whatever it takes to prevent suicide. I know what it's like to lose someone.

So its about YOU and what you feel and want.... not about them and what they want. That is my point.

Yeah, right. I crisis counsel suicidal people because it's all about me. My whole life is devoted to helping human beings have less suffering and more happiness.

Get lost. It is my mistake for EVER sharing any personal information. You're the kind of person who uses it like a weapon. I don't like that.

 

[syrenn]

Oh, I'm sure you'd help them kill themselves some other way then. Something more coldly efficient.

I will do whatever it takes to prevent suicide. I know what it's like to lose someone.

So its about YOU and what you feel and want.... not about them and what they want. That is my point.

Yeah, right. I crisis counsel suicidal people because it's all about me.

Get lost.

My mistake for EVER sharing any personal information. You're the kind of person who uses it like a weapon.

You said it your self sky...

I will do whatever it takes to prevent suicide. I know what it's like to lose someone.

within that statement.... it is very possible that is why you counsel suicidal people. You lost someone... you feel guilt about not being able to help them... be there for them or talk them back from the edge. It is all about you sky.


no... you would like to think that sky... and that is again a large part of your problem. I do reserve the right to comment on anything you put into public view though.

 

[Sky Dancer]

So its about YOU and what you feel and want.... not about them and what they want. That is my point.

Yeah, right. I crisis counsel suicidal people because it's all about me.

Get lost.

My mistake for EVER sharing any personal information. You're the kind of person who uses it like a weapon.

You said it your self sky...

I will do whatever it takes to prevent suicide. I know what it's like to lose someone.

within that statement.... it is very possible that is why you counsel suicidal people. You lost someone... you feel guilt about not being able to help them... be there for them or talk them back from the edge. It is all about you sky.


no... you would like to think that sky... and that is again a large part of your problem. I do reserve the right to comment on anything you put into public view though.

You are so cynical. I don't like you right now. I do my work out of love.

 

[koshergrl]

Good lord you're SUCH a nut.

That aside, it's still always wrong to judge for another person whether their life is worth living or not.

I don't think my ex's life is worth living for example.

 

[syrenn]

Yeah, right. I crisis counsel suicidal people because it's all about me.

Get lost.

My mistake for EVER sharing any personal information. You're the kind of person who uses it like a weapon.

You said it your self sky...

I will do whatever it takes to prevent suicide. I know what it's like to lose someone.

within that statement.... it is very possible that is why you counsel suicidal people. You lost someone... you feel guilt about not being able to help them... be there for them or talk them back from the edge. It is all about you sky.


no... you would like to think that sky... and that is again a large part of your problem. I do reserve the right to comment on anything you put into public view though.

You are so cynical. I don't like you right now. I do my work out of love.

I am not saying you dont do your work out of love


I am looking at deeper reasons for your work... deeper motivations.... and I think you should look there too.....

 

[Sky Dancer]

You said it your self sky...



within that statement.... it is very possible that is why you counsel suicidal people. You lost someone... you feel guilt about not being able to help them... be there for them or talk them back from the edge. It is all about you sky.


no... you would like to think that sky... and that is again a large part of your problem. I do reserve the right to comment on anything you put into public view though.

You are so cynical. I don't like you right now. I do my work out of love.

I am not saying you dont do your work out of love


I am looking at deeper reasons for your work... deeper motivations.... and I think you should look there too.....

The deepest reason I work in service is for love. You seem to think I do no self-reflection.

You would be wrong. You act like you know me better than I know myself, when you don't know me at all.

Goodbye.

 

[koshergrl]

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to detect narcissism.

And narcissism is a mental illness, incidentally.