Is this an official government site, Mr. Geroge? I don't think so. I think I will take the word of a former poster, a retired Naval Intelligence Officer, who said that if Americans knew just how much the Israelis were helping us, Americans wouldn't begrudge them one penny. I find it verry pathetic, Mr. George, that while innocent people are being murdered all over the Middle East, you only concentrate on Israel and the Jews. Perhaps these people who have died were not human beings in your mind.
EU warns Israel over settlement construction
- Thread starter pbel
- Start date
Is this an official government site, Mr. Geroge? I don't think so. I think I will take the word of a former poster, a retired Naval Intelligence Officer, who said that if Americans knew just how much the Israelis were helping us, Americans wouldn't begrudge them one penny. I find it verry pathetic, Mr. George, that while innocent people are being murdered all over the Middle East, you only concentrate on Israel and the Jews. Perhaps these people who have died were not human beings in your mind.
Hossfly
ZIONIST
The difference,George, is that the US doesn't provide military aid to Israel to fight or defend themselves from "Palestians" who are but a fleabite on an elephant's ass. As I am not a Christian or a Jew (but support both) I am also not a hypocrite. Get all your shit in one pile befor you run that alligator mouth you have under your snout.
pbel
Gold Member
- Feb 26, 2012
- 5,653
- 449
- 130
- Thread starter
- #24
You analyzed it perfectly...The original idea of co-existence was destroyed by right wing terrorist PM's like Begin in pursuing the expulsion of Arabs from Eretz Israel...Instead of becoming part and parcel in the Fabric of the ME, it became a military Lackey for the West and now the West being way less dependent on ME oil is beginning to abandon the aggressive Israeli state.
Things are changing. The West is not going to take on the Jihadists for Israel or Saudi Arabia's which fear the Arab Spring Uprisings.
Last edited:
docmauser1
Gold Member
- Oct 8, 2010
- 7,274
- 698
- 190
Can't the euros get more whiny?
docmauser1
Gold Member
- Oct 8, 2010
- 7,274
- 698
- 190
Very good.
aris2chat
Gold Member
- Feb 17, 2012
- 18,678
- 4,689
- 280
Yep, that figure came direct from Iran Press TV, same ones that first said Israel had opened a dam and intentionally flooded gaza, during the storm of the century. All the best stories come from there.
RoccoR
Gold Member
Sally, et al,
First, FAS (Federation of American Scientist) is not a government cite. But the CRS (Congressional Research Service - publisher of the document) is and FAS is an outlet. It is a very legitimate open-source cite to reference. CRS is public policy research arm of the United States Congress.
Is everything CRS says, the gospel? Not necessarily, but it is a good source of specific data and facts.
When one looks at the advise and assistance that the Israelis have provided the US, you often (most often) get a summary of useful tactical and strategic intelligence provided through the relationship. In fact, it is the most common argument used as to why the US needs to maintain the relationship. A current summary of such usefulness is list on the ISRAEL ACT NOW web site; and it is all true. It is outsourced intelligence, the same as you get from any fully funded intelligence contractor. But one has to remember, that Israeli Intelligence, as an apparatus, works in the best interest of the GOI (Government of Israel). It will not tell the US anything it don't want the US to know or expend energy to get itself, and it is careful as to how the intelligence is slanted. But it is a Return on our Investment (ROI). That is not to say that it is absolutely essential or of a quality and character that the US could not get otherwise. I suppose that if the US took the sum total of the money it sends to Israel, and diverted it to Middle East Intelligence and Research programs (HUMINT/SIGINT/IMINT), in five years (ten at the outside), the US could have a regional apparatus that would rival that of the Aman, Mossad, and Shin Bet. Although the Shin Bet and IDF Counterintelligence would be working against use at every step. In a way, the US use and dependence of Israeli Intelligence is much like a drug dependency; and would require a period of detoxification. The fact that it is consistently used as a reason or justification for continued support is a symptom of our dependency; not our close relationship.
Having said that, Israel is important to the US in many other tangible (and some less tangible) ways; scientifically, economically, and culturally. And these are the more important aspects in the long run.
Arieh Warshel, received the 2013 Nobel "for the development of multiscale models for complex chemical systems." He made the contribution while at University of Southern California, but come to us from the British Mandate of Palestine (now Israel). Oddly enough, he share the triumph of his work with Michael Levitt of Stanford University School of Medicine and from Pretoria, South Africa and Martin Karplus while at the University of Strasbourg and Harvard University, from Vienna, Austria.
I could go on about the Laureates James E. Rothman (Yale), Randy W. Schekman (UC Berkley), Thomas C. Südhof (Stanford), "for their discoveries of machinery regulating vesicle traffic, a major transport system in our cells;" but the point is, America is enriched by the relationship --- directly and indirectly by the culture and the diversity that such relationships bring; not just from the Jewish community - but from nearly all people.
Yes, most people bring up the products we get in terms of Intelligence and the impact on national defense and security; but, that is not nearly as important as what we get from other nations (including Israel) that are less tangible, yet more dynamically important.
Most Respectfully,
R
First, FAS (Federation of American Scientist) is not a government cite. But the CRS (Congressional Research Service - publisher of the document) is and FAS is an outlet. It is a very legitimate open-source cite to reference. CRS is public policy research arm of the United States Congress.
Is everything CRS says, the gospel? Not necessarily, but it is a good source of specific data and facts.
(COMMENT)
When one looks at the advise and assistance that the Israelis have provided the US, you often (most often) get a summary of useful tactical and strategic intelligence provided through the relationship. In fact, it is the most common argument used as to why the US needs to maintain the relationship. A current summary of such usefulness is list on the ISRAEL ACT NOW web site; and it is all true. It is outsourced intelligence, the same as you get from any fully funded intelligence contractor. But one has to remember, that Israeli Intelligence, as an apparatus, works in the best interest of the GOI (Government of Israel). It will not tell the US anything it don't want the US to know or expend energy to get itself, and it is careful as to how the intelligence is slanted. But it is a Return on our Investment (ROI). That is not to say that it is absolutely essential or of a quality and character that the US could not get otherwise. I suppose that if the US took the sum total of the money it sends to Israel, and diverted it to Middle East Intelligence and Research programs (HUMINT/SIGINT/IMINT), in five years (ten at the outside), the US could have a regional apparatus that would rival that of the Aman, Mossad, and Shin Bet. Although the Shin Bet and IDF Counterintelligence would be working against use at every step. In a way, the US use and dependence of Israeli Intelligence is much like a drug dependency; and would require a period of detoxification. The fact that it is consistently used as a reason or justification for continued support is a symptom of our dependency; not our close relationship.
Having said that, Israel is important to the US in many other tangible (and some less tangible) ways; scientifically, economically, and culturally. And these are the more important aspects in the long run.
Arieh Warshel, received the 2013 Nobel "for the development of multiscale models for complex chemical systems." He made the contribution while at University of Southern California, but come to us from the British Mandate of Palestine (now Israel). Oddly enough, he share the triumph of his work with Michael Levitt of Stanford University School of Medicine and from Pretoria, South Africa and Martin Karplus while at the University of Strasbourg and Harvard University, from Vienna, Austria.
I could go on about the Laureates James E. Rothman (Yale), Randy W. Schekman (UC Berkley), Thomas C. Südhof (Stanford), "for their discoveries of machinery regulating vesicle traffic, a major transport system in our cells;" but the point is, America is enriched by the relationship --- directly and indirectly by the culture and the diversity that such relationships bring; not just from the Jewish community - but from nearly all people.
Yes, most people bring up the products we get in terms of Intelligence and the impact on national defense and security; but, that is not nearly as important as what we get from other nations (including Israel) that are less tangible, yet more dynamically important.
Most Respectfully,
R
Last edited:
docmauser1
Gold Member
- Oct 8, 2010
- 7,274
- 698
- 190
Palistanians have yet a lot to learn, indeed, but they won't, of course.
georgephillip
Diamond Member
"The CIA considers Israel its No. 1 counterintelligence threat in the agency's Near East Division, the group that oversees spying across the Middle East, according to current and former officials.
"Counterintelligence is the art of protecting national secrets from spies. This means the CIA believes that U.S. national secrets are safer from other Middle Eastern governments than from Israel."
US sees Israel, tight Mideast ally, as spy threat
Does Hossie's "retired Naval intelligence officer" have a name?
RoccoR
Gold Member
docmauser1, et al,
Giving military aid and assistance to the Palestinians is not in the best interest of regional security.
There is a history of past behaviors that has to be considered. The current use of what weapons the Palestinians do have, has not aided in regional security.
Most Respectfully,
R
Giving military aid and assistance to the Palestinians is not in the best interest of regional security.
(COMMENT)
There is a history of past behaviors that has to be considered. The current use of what weapons the Palestinians do have, has not aided in regional security.
Most Respectfully,
R
RoccoR
Gold Member
georgephillip, et al,
Your definition of CI is very narrow (in some circles wrong) and your conclusion is wrong.
The protecting national secrets from spies (counterespionage) is only one fine aspect.
CI is defined by Congress as:
This is an unfounded statement.
ALL nations (including Middle Eastern governments), foreign organizations, or foreign persons, or international terrorist activities pose a "potential" threat. The scope, degree, magnitude and nature of the threat vary from one threat to the next.
Most Respectfully,
R
Your definition of CI is very narrow (in some circles wrong) and your conclusion is wrong.
(COMMENT)
The protecting national secrets from spies (counterespionage) is only one fine aspect.
CI is defined by Congress as:
50 USC 401a said:
(COMMENT)
This is an unfounded statement.
ALL nations (including Middle Eastern governments), foreign organizations, or foreign persons, or international terrorist activities pose a "potential" threat. The scope, degree, magnitude and nature of the threat vary from one threat to the next.
Most Respectfully,
R
Last edited:
Smart Vegas Money is on the Israelis ignoring the EU in this matter.
RoccoR
Gold Member
pbel, georgephillip, et al,
Yes, if it were an "illegal occupation."
Be specific, what makes the "occupation" illegal?
The issue has been addressed as an item called PERMANENT STATUS NEGOTIATIONS (Oslo I) with the CHAPTER 2 - REDEPLOYMENT AND SECURITY ARRANGEMENTS in accordance with Oslo II.
I was pretty sure that Isreal and the PLO agreed that the outcome of the Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, and borders would be based of further negotiations under the "Permanent Status Negotiations clause."
(FURTHER)
I may be biased. It is hard not to be in today's political climate.
The response on the nature of CI was directed at: georgephillip You are correct, it has little to do with the Occupation.
I can say with great confidence that there is no ally of any consequence and capability, that does not pose a threat to sensitive US Operations, where ever they may be conducted overseas. This includes Israel, but is not limited to Israel. The internal security forces of every nation in the Middle East (and elsewhere) are formidable. And I can say, with great confidence, that nearly every nation, of any capability, interest, or of some consequence, believes that the US conducts either overt, covert, or clandestine collection operations against them; whether or not that is in truth the case. Everybody watches everybody else; friend or foe.
Most Respectfully,
R
Yes, if it were an "illegal occupation."
(COMMENT)
Be specific, what makes the "occupation" illegal?
The Government of the State of Israel and the PLO team (in the Jordanian-Palestinian delegation to the Middle East Peace Conference) (the "Palestinian Delegation") said:
The issue has been addressed as an item called PERMANENT STATUS NEGOTIATIONS (Oslo I) with the CHAPTER 2 - REDEPLOYMENT AND SECURITY ARRANGEMENTS in accordance with Oslo II.
I was pretty sure that Isreal and the PLO agreed that the outcome of the Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, and borders would be based of further negotiations under the "Permanent Status Negotiations clause."
(FURTHER)
I may be biased. It is hard not to be in today's political climate.
The response on the nature of CI was directed at: georgephillip You are correct, it has little to do with the Occupation.
I can say with great confidence that there is no ally of any consequence and capability, that does not pose a threat to sensitive US Operations, where ever they may be conducted overseas. This includes Israel, but is not limited to Israel. The internal security forces of every nation in the Middle East (and elsewhere) are formidable. And I can say, with great confidence, that nearly every nation, of any capability, interest, or of some consequence, believes that the US conducts either overt, covert, or clandestine collection operations against them; whether or not that is in truth the case. Everybody watches everybody else; friend or foe.
Most Respectfully,
R
Last edited:
georgephillip
Diamond Member
The best story was spun by Lord Rothschild:
"April 2, 2013
The strength of the Jewish Lobby in Washington DC has been demonstrated once again with US President Barack Obamas approval of a new congressional bill which boosts US taxpayer donations to $11 million every day.
"Previously, this figure stood at 'only' $8 million every day, but in terms of the now finalized 'United States-Israel Enhanced Security Cooperation Act of 2012,' American taxpayers will give an additional $40 billion in military funding to Israel over a ten-year period.
"The military aid package will automatically start when the current 10-year aid package (worth $30 billion), signed by President George W. Bush in 2007, comes to an end."
US Aid to Israel Jumps to $11 Million Dollars Per Day as US States, Counties and Cities go Bankrupt!
Any article coming from a website whose tagline reads... "Wake Up, America, Your Government is Hijacked by Zionism" gets automatically tossed into the garbage can...
It could be saying that water is wet, and I'd still ignore it, and toss it in the garbage...
Friggin' bottom-feeders...
Last edited:
RoccoR
Gold Member
georgephillip, et al,
Now this is a legitimate beef!
This is a matter of the US Congress making a determination of what is more important.
Most Respectfully,
R
Now this is a legitimate beef!
(COMMENT)
This is a matter of the US Congress making a determination of what is more important.
Most Respectfully,
R
pbel
Gold Member
- Feb 26, 2012
- 5,653
- 449
- 130
- Thread starter
- #39
United Nations Security Council Resolution 242
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
UN Security Council
Resolution 242
Greater Middle East (orthographic projection).svg
Map of the Greater Middle East
Date
November 22 1967
Meeting no.
1,382
Code
S/RES/242 (Document)
Vote
For: 15 Abs. 0 Against: 0
Subject
The situation in the Middle East
Result
Unanimously approved
Security Council composition
Permanent members
CHN
FRA
UK
USA
USSR
Non-permanent members
ARG
BRA
BUL
CAN
DEN
ETH
IND
JPN
MLI
NGR
United Nations Security Council Resolution 242 (S/RES/242) was adopted unanimously by the UN Security Council on November 22, 1967, in the aftermath of the Six-Day War. It was adopted under Chapter VI of the UN Charter.[1] The resolution was sponsored by British ambassador Lord Caradon and was one of five drafts under consideration.[2]
The preamble[3] refers to the "inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in the Middle East in which every State in the area can live in security."
Operative Paragraph One "Affirms that the fulfillment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles:
(i) Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force." [4]
georgephillip
Diamond Member
Therefore, you should have no problem disproving its allegation that the Jewish state of Israel currently receives $11 million US tax dollars every day, right?
Similar threads
New Topics
-
Why was Nithya Raman literally crying last Tuesday because she lost? Now she will be in runoff Should Pratt now cry?- Started by ColonelAngus
- Replies: 1
-
-
-
Noncitizens Now Exposed on NJ Voter Rolls: Most Registered Democrats
- Started by Hollie
- Replies: 19
-
