Ethics: Is Abortion Taking A Life?

[Katzndogz]

Maybe.

I look at a baby at birth and I have no trouble accepting that it is a human being deserving of all the protections society bestows. I look at a fertilized egg and I see no heart, brain, etc., I see a blueprint for a human being, not a human being. A blueprint is not a house, you can't live in it, so tearing it up and starting again is just fine. Somewhere between that egg and birth an arbitrary line is crossed that can be discussed and maybe even a consensus arrived at but to claim there is only one answer and you have it is pure arrogance and ignorance.

A blueprint only exists on paper. A drawing of a human being is not a human being. A blueprint is nothing more than a drawing of a house. An unborn child at whatever stage of development is not a separate species, it is a developing human being.

 

[alang1216]

Maybe.

I look at a baby at birth and I have no trouble accepting that it is a human being deserving of all the protections society bestows. I look at a fertilized egg and I see no heart, brain, etc., I see a blueprint for a human being, not a human being. A blueprint is not a house, you can't live in it, so tearing it up and starting again is just fine. Somewhere between that egg and birth an arbitrary line is crossed that can be discussed and maybe even a consensus arrived at but to claim there is only one answer and you have it is pure arrogance and ignorance.

A blueprint only exists on paper. A drawing of a human being is not a human being. A blueprint is nothing more than a drawing of a house. An unborn child at whatever stage of development is not a separate species, it is a developing human being.

The only thing unique about the fertilized egg is the DNA it contains. Otherwise, it is just a cell like any other in our bodies. I believe we’ve already been able to coerce a skin cell to become an egg cell (or soon will be able to).

A blueprint is a guide for building like DNA is a guide for assembling a human building. Both are ways of storing information. That strand of DNA can't become a person any more than that blueprint can become a house without external help, bricklayers in one case RNA in another. That strand of DNA is not a person, it can’t think, feel, sense or react to the world but just like a blueprint it can be read by those that can.

 

[jillian]

At conception, is the being in a woman's body "alive"?

Is it anything other than human?

eating a steak is taking a life

human life begins on a continuum.

luckily you don't decide when...we each decide for ourselves....thank G-d for the supreme court.

 

[aris2chat]

I really don't want this thread to SPECIFICALLY be about abortion...

More like a brain storming exercise.

Here's a question. Is taking the "morning after pill" taking a life?

Well, cells are alive but that isn't a baby or fetus. Some times the body does it naturally, which I think the drug mimics. Should it be legal? Yes. Should pharmacists be forced to sell it? No.

cancer is alive
tape worm is alive
bacteria is alive, good and bad
virus is alive

Woman can decide what she allows to happen to her body. If she chooses not to carry a parasite feeding off her, that is her right.
Should not matter is she takes day after, 72 hours after, herbs, a cocktail of pills delivered to her home or goes to a clinic.
No one gets a say. No one gets to see her medical records or discuss her health and treatment.

What ever she chooses to do is private, protected by HIPAA

 

[Iceweasel]

I really don't want this thread to SPECIFICALLY be about abortion...

More like a brain storming exercise.

Here's a question. Is taking the "morning after pill" taking a life?

Well, cells are alive but that isn't a baby or fetus. Some times the body does it naturally, which I think the drug mimics. Should it be legal? Yes. Should pharmacists be forced to sell it? No.

cancer is alive
tape worm is alive
bacteria is alive, good and bad
virus is alive

Woman can decide what she allows to happen to her body. If she chooses not to carry a parasite feeding off her, that is her right.
Should not matter is she takes day after, 72 hours after, herbs, a cocktail of pills delivered to her home or goes to a clinic.
No one gets a say. No one gets to see her medical records or discuss her health and treatment.

What ever she chooses to do is private, protected by HIPAA

This isn't a courtroom, you goddamn retard. It's about people's opinions, can't you even understand the title? But thanks for pointing out you think bacteria is alive and good but early human life is a parasite.

You obviously didn't understand my post and went off on some weird tirade. And thanks to obamacare all records are electronic and anyone's can be seen with the right tools. You can quote HIPAA until your dumb face turns purple.

 

[aris2chat]

Biology 101:

A human being's lifespan begins at conception and ends at death.

at birth. Till it takes a breath outside the womb it is not a person.

There are many reason before and during birth that a fetus can die, never taking a breath.

When a woman arrives at the hospital she does not register in the babies name, but her name. She is the patient till the baby is born alive.

There maybe times what the woman's health is at risk and she should not try to carry a fetus to term. She might need treatment that would kill the fetus.

Hipo: a woman has trained for years to go on a space mission and two weeks before finds she is pregnant. They cannot replace her on the mission. Her choice to give up the mission or to wait for a later time to carry a baby.

Caring for a loved one. Exposed to viruses or diseases. Does not want or cannot change her life style. Prenatal test show baby is so badly deformed it cannot live or will be in pain for the short time it does live.

Maybe she is injured or disabled and cannot care for a child at that time. Maybe she is carrier of a birth defect. Maybe there is a history of mothers dying during child birth in her family.

Maybe she just wants to carry on with her career and can't take the time for a baby.

None of medical history is open to judgement. What happens between a doctor patient is private.

Her body is only subject to what she chooses.

Not your business to know and certainly not your business to interfere in any way.

A child should be brought into the world because of love and desire for a child, not sex.

The mother or couple should be ready and able to afford to raise a child.

A woman should be willing and able to commit to putting the child's needs above her own.

It is her choice for her body and her life. No one has a right to force her to carry and give birth. She is not a slave, for nine months or a life time.

 

[Iceweasel]

Biology 101:

A human being's lifespan begins at conception and ends at death.

at birth. Till it takes a breath outside the womb it is not a person.

You are one stupid individual. You think it's just tissue one second, you reach in and take it out and now it's a baby? LOL, how do you manage to function day to day?

 

[aris2chat]

I really don't want this thread to SPECIFICALLY be about abortion...

More like a brain storming exercise.

Here's a question. Is taking the "morning after pill" taking a life?

Well, cells are alive but that isn't a baby or fetus. Some times the body does it naturally, which I think the drug mimics. Should it be legal? Yes. Should pharmacists be forced to sell it? No.

cancer is alive
tape worm is alive
bacteria is alive, good and bad
virus is alive

Woman can decide what she allows to happen to her body. If she chooses not to carry a parasite feeding off her, that is her right.
Should not matter is she takes day after, 72 hours after, herbs, a cocktail of pills delivered to her home or goes to a clinic.
No one gets a say. No one gets to see her medical records or discuss her health and treatment.

What ever she chooses to do is private, protected by HIPAA

This isn't a courtroom, you goddamn retard. It's about people's opinions, can't you even understand the title? But thanks for pointing out you think bacteria is alive and good but early human life is a parasite.

You obviously didn't understand my post and went off on some weird tirade. And thanks to obamacare all records are electronic and anyone's can be seen with the right tools. You can quote HIPAA until your dumb face turns purple.

even under obama care the medical records are private.
Hacking is illegal.

You don't have a right to deny any medical treatment she wants.

It could be plastic surgery, a D&C or getting her tubes tied.

You post on a message board, anyone can comment.

You don't get to take a woman's choice away from her over her body.

 

[Muhammed]

Science tells us when an individual human being's lifespan begins at conception.

However, you will have a hard time convincing a mother who had an abortion that she purposefully killed a baby. Likewise, you will have a hard time convincing a father who has pressured a woman to have an abortion.

To them science does not matter. They just don't want to feel like a murderer.

 

[playtime]

according to traditional religions - yes, abortion is a murder. No matter what women think about it.

Not to the woman who doesn't hold the same religious belief, so secular law is the rule of law in this country.

 

[Iceweasel]

I really don't want this thread to SPECIFICALLY be about abortion...

More like a brain storming exercise.

Here's a question. Is taking the "morning after pill" taking a life?

Well, cells are alive but that isn't a baby or fetus. Some times the body does it naturally, which I think the drug mimics. Should it be legal? Yes. Should pharmacists be forced to sell it? No.

cancer is alive
tape worm is alive
bacteria is alive, good and bad
virus is alive

Woman can decide what she allows to happen to her body. If she chooses not to carry a parasite feeding off her, that is her right.
Should not matter is she takes day after, 72 hours after, herbs, a cocktail of pills delivered to her home or goes to a clinic.
No one gets a say. No one gets to see her medical records or discuss her health and treatment.

What ever she chooses to do is private, protected by HIPAA

This isn't a courtroom, you goddamn retard. It's about people's opinions, can't you even understand the title? But thanks for pointing out you think bacteria is alive and good but early human life is a parasite.

You obviously didn't understand my post and went off on some weird tirade. And thanks to obamacare all records are electronic and anyone's can be seen with the right tools. You can quote HIPAA until your dumb face turns purple.

even under obama care the medical records are private.
Hacking is illegal.

You don't have a right to deny any medical treatment she wants.

It could be plastic surgery, a D&C or getting her tubes tied.

You post on a message board, anyone can comment.

You don't get to take a woman's choice away from her over her body.

You need your drugs adjusted. Something is wrong. You are responding to voices in your head.

 

[Igrok_]

according to traditional religions - yes, abortion is a murder. No matter what women think about it.

Not to the woman who doesn't hold the same religious belief, so secular law is the rule of law in this country.

of course, the anti-religious law is the rule in this country. Let's see, who will be right: this country or God. Needless even to wait, just watch into the other's history.

 

[ChrisL]

according to traditional religions - yes, abortion is a murder. No matter what women think about it.

Not to the woman who doesn't hold the same religious belief, so secular law is the rule of law in this country.

of course, the anti-religious law is the rule in this country. Let's see, who will be right: this country or God. Needless even to wait, just watch into the other's history.

Too bad. Not everyone agrees with YOUR beliefs. Get used to it.

 

[Igrok_]

according to traditional religions - yes, abortion is a murder. No matter what women think about it.

Not to the woman who doesn't hold the same religious belief, so secular law is the rule of law in this country.

of course, the anti-religious law is the rule in this country. Let's see, who will be right: this country or God. Needless even to wait, just watch into the other's history.

Too bad. Not everyone agrees with YOUR beliefs. Get used to it.

Doesn't matter if God agrees.

 

[aris2chat]

Science tells us when an individual human being's lifespan begins at conception.

However, you will have a hard time convincing a mother who had an abortion that she purposefully killed a baby. Likewise, you will have a hard time convincing a father who has pressured a woman to have an abortion.

To them science does not matter. They just don't want to feel like a murderer.

just because a chicken lays and egg it does not mean the egg will hatch.

an embryo is not a person till it can breath outside the womb.

The embryo/fetus might be growing but till at least 27 week it will not survive out side the womb, and that is far too early.

If the woman does not want to carry it, she has the option to terminate. Not every woman throughout their life wants something feeding on her depleting her of nutrients and distorting her body, or passing a water melon nine months later.
It is her body and during till 24 weeks she has the right to terminate.

You want to create an embryo in petri dish and call it a person, you are wrong.
Worms are life, but we choose not to keep them inside us, feeding off us.
Till a fetus kicks, it is just so much cells multiplying like a cancer.

Most faiths have different ideas of when it become a person or at what point a woman should not abort. Most of the major faith say at four to six month, but even then it is not a person. Some at birth, but the bible determines at one month after birth.

Islam allows a woman to abort a fetus up to 120 days

In Judaism it does not forbid abortions, but if harm comes to a woman that is obviously pregnant there are consequences, but the harm is of the woman, not the fetus. If a woman is having a hard birth, the fetus can be cut in pieces and removed piece by piece to save the woman's life.

A fetus is of "doubtful viability" till it is born.

Bible also speaks of abortions by bitter water. Pope John XXI wrote a book of medicine including abortions.

"You" might choose to believe in conception, but most do not. Your faith does not apply to all the other people out there.

Childbirth might not be a dangerous as it once was, but if a woman chooses not to risk her life, that is her option. There are many conditions that would become worse if a woman is pregnant and some even life threatening because she would have to change her meds if she tried to keep the fetus. If she is diagnosed while pregnant, many doctor will advise an abortion so that she can be treated, either way the fetus would die, but it is safer to remove before treatment begins that after when she is too weak and vulnerable to infections and complications.

Till a child is born, the woman is the patient and what she decides with her doctor is her private business.

Law permits a woman to choose what happens to her body, she is not a slave.

If you don't believe in abortion, fine, don't have one. But tell others what they can and cannot do with their body.

Don't impose your beliefs on others. Most faiths do not forbid abortions or have absolutely no comment on it as a religious matter.

You don't get to know what a woman chooses and you don't get to control her body.

Why do people want to interfere with a legal and medical right rather than worry about the 16 million children that have already been born and need a home and family?

No one should have a right to tell a woman what she can and cannot do. She makes her own choices, that is her right to control her "life". That is her "freedom/liberty" to choose what will make her happy.

You have no right over a woman's body or her life.

Only over your own.

 

[aris2chat]

according to traditional religions - yes, abortion is a murder. No matter what women think about it.

Not to the woman who doesn't hold the same religious belief, so secular law is the rule of law in this country.

of course, the anti-religious law is the rule in this country. Let's see, who will be right: this country or God. Needless even to wait, just watch into the other's history.

Too bad. Not everyone agrees with YOUR beliefs. Get used to it.

Doesn't matter if God agrees.

Only if you believe in a god and a faith that teaches abortion is wrong for the members of that particular church.

Does not apply to everyone else.

Unless it is your sin, you have no say in the life of others and there "choices" or "sins". That is their "freedom" to control their "life".

You don't get to control or risk her life to produce a child she does not want. She is not a slave.

Go adopt dozen or so children if you are so concerned about a child's life. A fetus is not a child or person till after birth, you don't get to tell others what they must do.

 

[aris2chat]

according to traditional religions - yes, abortion is a murder. No matter what women think about it.

Not to the woman who doesn't hold the same religious belief, so secular law is the rule of law in this country.

of course, the anti-religious law is the rule in this country. Let's see, who will be right: this country or God. Needless even to wait, just watch into the other's history.

Gods have come a gone throughout history. Life goes on.
Some don't even believe in god, that is their right.

You don't get to impose your faith on others. Freedom of religion also means freedom to every other religion that disagrees with you, or freedom of no religion or god at all.

Why do people worry so much about a next life instead of their own actions in this one.
If you don't want to other to tell you when you "must" have an abortion, you don't get the right to tell others when they can't.

Stay out of a woman's medical choices, be it in a clinic or at her home.

 

[ChrisL]

according to traditional religions - yes, abortion is a murder. No matter what women think about it.

Not to the woman who doesn't hold the same religious belief, so secular law is the rule of law in this country.

of course, the anti-religious law is the rule in this country. Let's see, who will be right: this country or God. Needless even to wait, just watch into the other's history.

Too bad. Not everyone agrees with YOUR beliefs. Get used to it.

Doesn't matter if God agrees.

Only if you believe in a god and a faith that teaches abortion is wrong for the members of that particular church.

Does not apply to everyone else.

Unless it is your sin, you have no say in the life of others and there "choices" or "sins". That is their "freedom" to control their "life".

You don't get to control or risk her life to produce a child she does not want. She is not a slave.

Go adopt dozen or so children if you are so concerned about a child's life. A fetus is not a child or person till after birth, you don't get to tell others what they must do.

RWNJ need to clean their own houses first, I would say. However, they just love sticking their big stupid noses into everyone else's business.

 

[ChrisL]

Science tells us when an individual human being's lifespan begins at conception.

However, you will have a hard time convincing a mother who had an abortion that she purposefully killed a baby. Likewise, you will have a hard time convincing a father who has pressured a woman to have an abortion.

To them science does not matter. They just don't want to feel like a murderer.

just because a chicken lays and egg it does not mean the egg will hatch.

an embryo is not a person till it can breath outside the womb.

The embryo/fetus might be growing but till at least 27 week it will not survive out side the womb, and that is far too early.

If the woman does not want to carry it, she has the option to terminate. Not every woman throughout their life wants something feeding on her depleting her of nutrients and distorting her body, or passing a water melon nine months later.
It is her body and during till 24 weeks she has the right to terminate.

You want to create an embryo in petri dish and call it a person, you are wrong.
Worms are life, but we choose not to keep them inside us, feeding off us.
Till a fetus kicks, it is just so much cells multiplying like a cancer.

Most faiths have different ideas of when it become a person or at what point a woman should not abort. Most of the major faith say at four to six month, but even then it is not a person. Some at birth, but the bible determines at one month after birth.

Islam allows a woman to abort a fetus up to 120 days

In Judaism it does not forbid abortions, but if harm comes to a woman that is obviously pregnant there are consequences, but the harm is of the woman, not the fetus. If a woman is having a hard birth, the fetus can be cut in pieces and removed piece by piece to save the woman's life.

A fetus is of "doubtful viability" till it is born.

Bible also speaks of abortions by bitter water. Pope John XXI wrote a book of medicine including abortions.

"You" might choose to believe in conception, but most do not. Your faith does not apply to all the other people out there.

Childbirth might not be a dangerous as it once was, but if a woman chooses not to risk her life, that is her option. There are many conditions that would become worse if a woman is pregnant and some even life threatening because she would have to change her meds if she tried to keep the fetus. If she is diagnosed while pregnant, many doctor will advise an abortion so that she can be treated, either way the fetus would die, but it is safer to remove before treatment begins that after when she is too weak and vulnerable to infections and complications.

Till a child is born, the woman is the patient and what she decides with her doctor is her private business.

Law permits a woman to choose what happens to her body, she is not a slave.

If you don't believe in abortion, fine, don't have one. But tell others what they can and cannot do with their body.

Don't impose your beliefs on others. Most faiths do not forbid abortions or have absolutely no comment on it as a religious matter.

You don't get to know what a woman chooses and you don't get to control her body.

Why do people want to interfere with a legal and medical right rather than worry about the 16 million children that have already been born and need a home and family?

No one should have a right to tell a woman what she can and cannot do. She makes her own choices, that is her right to control her "life". That is her "freedom/liberty" to choose what will make her happy.

You have no right over a woman's body or her life.

Only over your own.

Eggcelent.

 

[Igrok_]

Only if you believe in a god and a faith that teaches abortion is wrong for the members of that particular church.

Does not apply to everyone else.

not to that particular church, but for all people of all churches. Scientists don't claim that their laws applicable only for themselves.

Unless it is your sin, you have no say in the life of others and there "choices" or "sins". That is their "freedom" to control their "life".

I may do what i want, that is my freedom. If murderer is murderer i say it.

You don't get to control or risk her life to produce a child she does not want. She is not a slave.

For women, if they already have children, it is healthier to kill existing one, than to kill which is inside her. I take care of her life here.

A fetus is not a child or person till after birth

wrong. Many children being killed were trying to avoid instruments.

Some don't even believe in god, that is their right.

Some people don't even believe that killing mature people is bad, but that is not their right.

Freedom of religion also means freedom to every other religion that disagrees with you, or freedom of no religion or god at all.

ok, but the goverment acts in accordance to one of the ideologies despite this freedom. So, if government acts in an anti-christian way, it will fail for sure.

Stay out of a woman's medical choices, be it in a clinic or at her home.

Will stay if they avoid killing other people. If child can't defend himself from his mom, goverment or society should.