Ethics and The A-Bomb

[CurveLight]

they wanted to surrender on their terms. what was our offical policy????

We accepted a surrender based on their terms. Not ours.

 

[namvet]

bas ackwards as usual

 

[CurveLight]

bas ackwards as usual

"On August 10, 1945, Japan offered to surrender to the Allies, the only condition being that the emperor be allowed to remain the nominal head of state."


"On August 12, the United States announced that it would accept the Japanese surrender, making clear in its statement that the emperor could remain in a purely ceremonial capacity only."
Http://www.cfo.doe.gov/me70/manhattan/surrender.htm


Japan stated the terms for a conditional surrender and the US accepted. Your continued denial of this fundamental and indisputable fact only helps reveals the depths of your inability to reach anything close to honesty.

 

[namvet]

you just claimed they offered to surrender in Jan. change your mind now????

 

[CurveLight]

you just claimed they offered to surrender in Jan. change your mind now????

You're not deflecting that easily. Respond to the facts I posted or understand I have nothing more to say to you on this.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The atomic bomb was not dropped on Berlin because the Germans had surrendered two months before the prototype was exploded in New Mexico.

The Japanese accepted all conditions, begging only for the Emperor to remain, which the U.S. graciously (and smartly, I might add) accepted.

The decision to nuke the Japanese cities was essential for their surrender. Two reasons: (1) the Japanese military did not want to surrender, (2) we were facing getting clobbered on the beaches and taking incredible casualties.

 

[namvet]

Light: the emperor was allowed to stay AFTER the bombs were dropped. your rants go all the way back to Jan and stating we accepted their terms mons before the bombs were dropped. now your stepping all over yourself !!!!

 

[JakeStarkey]

hmmm . . . wonder what namvet is muttering down there in the hole in the ground.

 

[namvet]

wonder what Skankey has up his ass ????

 

[JakeStarkey]

namvet: mutter, mutter, bugreth shashlocks, mutter, mutter

 

[CurveLight]

The atomic bomb was not dropped on Berlin because the Germans had surrendered two months before the prototype was exploded in New Mexico.

The Japanese accepted all conditions, begging only for the Emperor to remain, which the U.S. graciously (and smartly, I might add) accepted.

The decision to nuke the Japanese cities was essential for their surrender. Two reasons: (1) the Japanese military did not want to surrender, (2) we were facing getting clobbered on the beaches and taking incredible casualties.

You're full of shit as I just posted the fact Japan offered the terms for surrender and we accepted.

Also......

Leahy, Eisenhower, and Macarthur all stated the bombs were not necessary for a surrender. Could you explain why we should believe you over them?

 

[JakeStarkey]

The atomic bomb was not dropped on Berlin because the Germans had surrendered two months before the prototype was exploded in New Mexico.

The Japanese accepted all conditions, begging only for the Emperor to remain, which the U.S. graciously (and smartly, I might add) accepted.

The decision to nuke the Japanese cities was essential for their surrender. Two reasons: (1) the Japanese military did not want to surrender, (2) we were facing getting clobbered on the beaches and taking incredible casualties.

You're full of shit as I just posted the fact Japan offered the terms for surrender and we accepted.

Also......

Leahy, Eisenhower, and Macarthur all stated the bombs were not necessary for a surrender. Could you explain why we should believe you over them?

Your facts and your documentation are wrong. Check it out for your own creditability's sake, curve.

 

[namvet]

well well Starkey is getting his ass handed to him. let me go get some popcorn

 

[JakeStarkey]

Because you have not bothered to read the declassified material from the 1945 strategic planning ops for the Japanese invasion that have been released in the last decade. It turns out that Leahy, Eisenhower, and Macarthur were all wrong, and that Truman made the right decision. Here: http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/wars_downfall3.html

Now did you really suggest that Japanese offered to surrender in January 1945? Really? Oh, my.

 

[CurveLight]

Because you have not bothered to read the declassified material from the 1945 strategic planning ops for the Japanese invasion that have been released in the last decade. It turns out that Leahy, Eisenhower, and Macarthur were all wrong, and that Truman made the right decision. Here: Operation Downfall 3: Allied Intelligence

Now did you really suggest that Japanese offered to surrender in January 1945? Really? Oh, my.

Quote the specific part that proves they were wrong.

 

[CurveLight]

The atomic bomb was not dropped on Berlin because the Germans had surrendered two months before the prototype was exploded in New Mexico.

The Japanese accepted all conditions, begging only for the Emperor to remain, which the U.S. graciously (and smartly, I might add) accepted.

The decision to nuke the Japanese cities was essential for their surrender. Two reasons: (1) the Japanese military did not want to surrender, (2) we were facing getting clobbered on the beaches and taking incredible casualties.

You're full of shit as I just posted the fact Japan offered the terms for surrender and we accepted.

Also......

Leahy, Eisenhower, and Macarthur all stated the bombs were not necessary for a surrender. Could you explain why we should believe you over them?

Your facts and your documentation are wrong. Check it out for your own creditability's sake, curve.

What facts are wrong? If you know then you should have stated what they were and proven them wrong.

 

[Stainmaster]

First thing. The Atomic Bombs were not ready until Summer 1945. Germany surrendered in April. We had no reason to drop said bombs on Germany.

The reality is that it took BOTH bombs to get the Emperor of Japan to over ride his Army Controlled Government and order an immediate surrender. With those bombs we would have starved Japan through the winter killing untold thousands followed by an Invasion of a Home Island which would have seen MILLIONS of dead Japanese civilians and soldiers.

Japan was teaching her civilians to arm themselves with Bamboo spears and human wave charge any invasion. The continued invasion of Japan could have seen the potential elimination of the Japanese race.

The lie that Japan was ready to surrender is revisionist history. Japan under the Army had no intention of surrender. What they "offered" through the Soviet Union was a cease fire with Japan keeping everything she still possessed and the return of Japanese home possessions like Saipan and Okinawa. Japan was offering to let us just stop attacking them. They would retain all of their Chinese, Korean and other possessions and we would return their home island captures.

Here is a link to SOURCE documents verifying that Japan was NOT offering a meaningful surrender, that even after two atomic Bombs the Army controlled government refused to surrender, that the Emperor failed to act until after the second atomic bomb and that the Army attempted a Coup to prevent the Emperor from surrendering.

The Atomic Bomb and the End of World War II: A Collection of Primary Sources

The atomic bombs were necessary unless one thinks we should have just let Japan keep everything from before the war and not disarm. They SAVED millions of lives.

From everything I've read, and talking with people at my Grandpop's lodge, this is the version I believe. I think the Truman Administration did the right thing to save American lives as terrifying as it was.

I cannot get any pro-bomb person to answer a couple of questions so maybe you can.

If we dropped the bombs to force an unconditional surrender, then why is it the US changed its surrender terms instead of Japan?

Do you realize that after the bombs were dropped it was not Japan who changed their conditions for surrender but the US?

If it was worth nuking two civilian populations to try and force an unconditional surrender then why did we give up? The nukes didn't change Japan's terms for surrender so why didn't we invade? Why didn't we continue firebombing, blockades and air raids?

I have no idea. Invasion would have cost American lives. If it came down, as I understand it did, to American servicepeople dying or Japanese, it is a no brainer. Remember Pearl Harbor.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You're full of shit as I just posted the fact Japan offered the terms for surrender and we accepted.

Also......

Leahy, Eisenhower, and Macarthur all stated the bombs were not necessary for a surrender. Could you explain why we should believe you over them?

Your facts and your documentation are wrong. Check it out for your own creditability's sake, curve.

What facts are wrong? If you know then you should have stated what they were and proven them wrong.

You ignored the earlier posting, so I moved it to here.

Because you have not bothered to read the declassified material from the 1945 strategic planning ops for the Japanese invasion that have been released in the last decade. It turns out that Leahy, Eisenhower, and Macarthur were all wrong, and that Truman made the right decisiohttp://www.historyofwar.org/articles/wars_downfall3.htmln
.
Now did you really suggest that Japanese offered to surrender in January 1945? Really? Oh, my.

 

[namvet]

​

 

[CurveLight]

Your facts and your documentation are wrong. Check it out for your own creditability's sake, curve.

What facts are wrong? If you know then you should have stated what they were and proven them wrong.

You ignored the earlier posting, so I moved it to here.

Because you have not bothered to read the declassified material from the 1945 strategic planning ops for the Japanese invasion that have been released in the last decade. It turns out that Leahy, Eisenhower, and Macarthur were all wrong, and that Truman made the right decisiohttp://www.historyofwar.org/articles/wars_downfall3.htmln
.
Now did you really suggest that Japanese offered to surrender in January 1945? Really? Oh, my.

What facts are wrong? If you know then you should have stated what they were and proven them wrong.