Environmentalism: The "Greenist Insanity"

[Treeshepherd]

Count me as a Gaia worshipper, and an environmentalist, and a primitivist in many ways, though my greatest fear has materialized; I'm addicted to this damn iPhone.

I'm anti-consumerism. In most ways though, I think solutions are best reached by grassroots methods, not federal mandates.

We didn't need to make Hummers illegal, we just had to convince our neighbors that they look like assholes commuting to office jobs in them.

Can I offer you an introduction to the other tree-hugger moron in the post above yours?

Perhaps you can split a Mensa membership.

Anger issues?

Somebody needs a bong hit and/or a session of hot yoga

Truth issues, m'man.

Now, back in your tree.

That's the problem with this iPhone... I can still connect from my tree. In fact, the reception in better up here.

In 1990, when I became a forest activist, and we fought the Maxxam Corporation, which had leveraged a sneaky stock takeover of 100+ year old family owned Pacific Lumber Company, many of us wondered what it would be like when government co opted the environmental movement.

Today, we have our answer.

Capitalism is about using money to make money. Capitalism is about the cultivation of needs. I'm for less excessive consumption, and I am against the mantra of economic growth by any means necessary.

But I am not in favor of replacing capitalism with Big State communism. I'm just for a global awakening of environmental conscientiousness. Is that too much to ask?

"The more you know, the less you need."- Yvon Chouinard.

 

[Bfgrn]

Bravo. You've got the conviction of your wallet.

From Publisher's Weekly:
Science writer and environmentalist Kaufman ( The Beaches Are Moving ) fires broadsides at the environmental movement, which, he argues, has become a religion that ignores the basic principles of science, economics and human nature. Noting that American history has been dominated by the challenge to master and manage nature, he asserts, "the only way to maintain a balance in nature is through sophisticated, often high-tech intervention, such as managing the flow of the Mississippi River or building earthquake-proof skyscapers." Among his targets are programs sponsored by the Environmental Protection Agency, the Endangered Species Act, the premises of Al Gore's Earth in the Balance and various recycling programs. In this stimulating volume, Kaufman discusses new technologies and suggests that private enterprises are not necessarily anti-environment and can be beneficial as a resource.
Copyright 1994 Reed Business Information, Inc. --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.

You might be waiting a while for that copy

You ignored this one...

From Library Journal
Science writer Kaufman, who has served as president of two state-level environmental groups, purports that the environmental movement, like any large movement, has become a large machine, a large system of power with its own agenda, which includes controlling versions of the truth. The author identifies with other "recovering" environmentalists who report that internal politics has given those in the movement an irrational view of the world. Kaufman flails a lot in his writing and often doesn't lead the reader through his arguments, especially in the first part of the book. He generalizes too often for all environmentalists, and he could have used a good course in rhetoric. But the later chapters have less hyperbole and are more coherent and readable, and his thesis is one that should be debated. For larger environmental collections.
Diane M. Fortner, Univ. of California Lib., Berkeley

 

[initforme]

There are certain natural places in which humans simply should not be able to own or profit from. And surely we must protect our resources from industry whose goal is to exploit it for profit and willfully and purposely damage it

 

[PoliticalChic]

To the point of the thread, how about you attempt to respond to this, from post #32:

.....is environmentalism merely an atavistic attempt to worship Gaia, curtail technology and industry, inflate the power of government?

Environmentalism does not involve the worship of Gaia. Technology and industry have been inextricably involved in the degradation of the environment. So obviously there will be conflict when attempting to balance human needs

Is it not based, as communism is, on ending private property?

That, I'm afraid, is complete nonsense.

How many examples of Greenists claiming that the noble savage should be our icon, and learning from same should be our goal?

That environmentalists should argue that humans need to learn how to live in greater harmony with Earth's ecosystems and minimize our consumption of - and damage to - its organic resources, should be fully expected. How do you believe environmentalists should work to protect the environment from human damage?

"Environmentalism does not involve the worship of Gaia."

1. Gaia
   Gaia is the Greek goddess, which personifies the Earth itself. The wordGaia is a compound of two elements: Ge meaning the Earth and Aiameaning Grandmother, often Gaia is referred to as the Mother of Earth.Gaia Myth - Gaiawww.gaia.fi/company/gaia_myth

2. UNITED NATIONS — Bolivia will this month table a draft United Nations treaty giving “Mother Earth” the same rights as humans — having just passed a domestic law that does the same for bugs, trees and all other natural things in the South American country.
The bid aims to have the UN recognize the Earth as a living entity that humans have sought to “dominate and exploit” — to the point that the “well-being and existence of many beings” is now threatened…. It also establishes a Ministry of Mother Earth, and provides the planet with an ombudsman whose job is to hear nature's complaints as voiced by activist and other groups, including the state.UN document would give 'Mother Earth' same rights as humans

3. “In our contemporary era, Earth Day has become the modern celebration of Gaia. Partakers of this event, whether aware of it or not, play off the ancient pagan beliefs of a Universal Mother. Like the sacred oaths taken in her name, today’s Earth Day celebrants sign environmental petitions, make pledges, and announce resolutions in support of Mother Earth. And like the old sacrifices to the deity, today’s Earth Day practitioners offer sacrifices of “good works” to the planet. Not only is the Earth a deity to be venerated, but the Earth itself – as the representative and embodiment of the Goddess – has become a modern day idol.” All For Gaia: Earth Day and Total Transformation for a Post-Christian World « Forcing Change

Me: Madison Bumgarner

You: Strike one!

Where ever did you get the idea that the world's environmental movement was run by the Bolivians?

What percentage of environmentalists do you think worship Gaia? One in a hundred? One in a thousand? How many people do you think would assert that they had NO concern for the environment? One in ten thousand?

Your arguments here are absurd. All of them.

It is paramount to PC extreme rhetoric that they ALL worship Gaia... she is totally incapable of any civil discussion.

I can be nicer if you could be smarter.

 

[PoliticalChic]

There are certain natural places in which humans simply should not be able to own or profit from. And surely we must protect our resources from industry whose goal is to exploit it for profit and willfully and purposely damage it

"There are certain natural places in which humans simply should not be able to own or profit from."

Let's start with your hovel.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Count me as a Gaia worshipper, and an environmentalist, and a primitivist in many ways, though my greatest fear has materialized; I'm addicted to this damn iPhone.

I'm anti-consumerism. In most ways though, I think solutions are best reached by grassroots methods, not federal mandates.

We didn't need to make Hummers illegal, we just had to convince our neighbors that they look like assholes commuting to office jobs in them.

Can I offer you an introduction to the other tree-hugger moron in the post above yours?

Perhaps you can split a Mensa membership.

Anger issues?

Somebody needs a bong hit and/or a session of hot yoga

Truth issues, m'man.

Now, back in your tree.

That's the problem with this iPhone... I can still connect from my tree. In fact, the reception in better up here.

In 1990, when I became a forest activist, and we fought the Maxxam Corporation, which had leveraged a sneaky stock takeover of 100+ year old family owned Pacific Lumber Company, many of us wondered what it would be like when government co opted the environmental movement.

Today, we have our answer.

Capitalism is about using money to make money. Capitalism is about the cultivation of needs. I'm for less excessive consumption, and I am against the mantra of economic growth by any means necessary.

But I am not in favor of replacing capitalism with Big State communism. I'm just for a global awakening of environmental conscientiousness. Is that too much to ask?

"The more you know, the less you need."- Yvon Chouinard.

I look forward to many interesting and informative lessons and remediations that I will be providing for you.

Be prepared to take notes.

 

[Bfgrn]

To the point of the thread, how about you attempt to respond to this, from post #32:

.....is environmentalism merely an atavistic attempt to worship Gaia, curtail technology and industry, inflate the power of government?

Environmentalism does not involve the worship of Gaia. Technology and industry have been inextricably involved in the degradation of the environment. So obviously there will be conflict when attempting to balance human needs

Is it not based, as communism is, on ending private property?

That, I'm afraid, is complete nonsense.

How many examples of Greenists claiming that the noble savage should be our icon, and learning from same should be our goal?

That environmentalists should argue that humans need to learn how to live in greater harmony with Earth's ecosystems and minimize our consumption of - and damage to - its organic resources, should be fully expected. How do you believe environmentalists should work to protect the environment from human damage?

"Environmentalism does not involve the worship of Gaia."

1. Gaia
   Gaia is the Greek goddess, which personifies the Earth itself. The wordGaia is a compound of two elements: Ge meaning the Earth and Aiameaning Grandmother, often Gaia is referred to as the Mother of Earth.Gaia Myth - Gaiawww.gaia.fi/company/gaia_myth

2. UNITED NATIONS — Bolivia will this month table a draft United Nations treaty giving “Mother Earth” the same rights as humans — having just passed a domestic law that does the same for bugs, trees and all other natural things in the South American country.
The bid aims to have the UN recognize the Earth as a living entity that humans have sought to “dominate and exploit” — to the point that the “well-being and existence of many beings” is now threatened…. It also establishes a Ministry of Mother Earth, and provides the planet with an ombudsman whose job is to hear nature's complaints as voiced by activist and other groups, including the state.UN document would give 'Mother Earth' same rights as humans

3. “In our contemporary era, Earth Day has become the modern celebration of Gaia. Partakers of this event, whether aware of it or not, play off the ancient pagan beliefs of a Universal Mother. Like the sacred oaths taken in her name, today’s Earth Day celebrants sign environmental petitions, make pledges, and announce resolutions in support of Mother Earth. And like the old sacrifices to the deity, today’s Earth Day practitioners offer sacrifices of “good works” to the planet. Not only is the Earth a deity to be venerated, but the Earth itself – as the representative and embodiment of the Goddess – has become a modern day idol.” All For Gaia: Earth Day and Total Transformation for a Post-Christian World « Forcing Change

Me: Madison Bumgarner

You: Strike one!

Where ever did you get the idea that the world's environmental movement was run by the Bolivians?

What percentage of environmentalists do you think worship Gaia? One in a hundred? One in a thousand? How many people do you think would assert that they had NO concern for the environment? One in ten thousand?

Your arguments here are absurd. All of them.

It is paramount to PC extreme rhetoric that they ALL worship Gaia... she is totally incapable of any civil discussion.

I can be nicer if you could be smarter.

No you can't PC. You are unable to have a civil conversation.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Environmentalism does not involve the worship of Gaia. Technology and industry have been inextricably involved in the degradation of the environment. So obviously there will be conflict when attempting to balance human needs

That, I'm afraid, is complete nonsense.

That environmentalists should argue that humans need to learn how to live in greater harmony with Earth's ecosystems and minimize our consumption of - and damage to - its organic resources, should be fully expected. How do you believe environmentalists should work to protect the environment from human damage?

"Environmentalism does not involve the worship of Gaia."

1. Gaia
   Gaia is the Greek goddess, which personifies the Earth itself. The wordGaia is a compound of two elements: Ge meaning the Earth and Aiameaning Grandmother, often Gaia is referred to as the Mother of Earth.Gaia Myth - Gaiawww.gaia.fi/company/gaia_myth

2. UNITED NATIONS — Bolivia will this month table a draft United Nations treaty giving “Mother Earth” the same rights as humans — having just passed a domestic law that does the same for bugs, trees and all other natural things in the South American country.
The bid aims to have the UN recognize the Earth as a living entity that humans have sought to “dominate and exploit” — to the point that the “well-being and existence of many beings” is now threatened…. It also establishes a Ministry of Mother Earth, and provides the planet with an ombudsman whose job is to hear nature's complaints as voiced by activist and other groups, including the state.UN document would give 'Mother Earth' same rights as humans

3. “In our contemporary era, Earth Day has become the modern celebration of Gaia. Partakers of this event, whether aware of it or not, play off the ancient pagan beliefs of a Universal Mother. Like the sacred oaths taken in her name, today’s Earth Day celebrants sign environmental petitions, make pledges, and announce resolutions in support of Mother Earth. And like the old sacrifices to the deity, today’s Earth Day practitioners offer sacrifices of “good works” to the planet. Not only is the Earth a deity to be venerated, but the Earth itself – as the representative and embodiment of the Goddess – has become a modern day idol.” All For Gaia: Earth Day and Total Transformation for a Post-Christian World « Forcing Change

Me: Madison Bumgarner

You: Strike one!

Where ever did you get the idea that the world's environmental movement was run by the Bolivians?

What percentage of environmentalists do you think worship Gaia? One in a hundred? One in a thousand? How many people do you think would assert that they had NO concern for the environment? One in ten thousand?

Your arguments here are absurd. All of them.

It is paramount to PC extreme rhetoric that they ALL worship Gaia... she is totally incapable of any civil discussion.

I can be nicer if you could be smarter.

No you can't PC. You are unable to have a civil conversation.

Well, then, we're even.
"No you can't" certainly applies to my request that you be smarter.

 

[Bfgrn]

There are certain natural places in which humans simply should not be able to own or profit from. And surely we must protect our resources from industry whose goal is to exploit it for profit and willfully and purposely damage it

More specifically, there are essential resources that cannot and SHOULD not be owned by anyone. The air we breathe, the water we drink, the soil we seed. It is the rule of the commons that goes back to the Magna Carta.

 

[Bfgrn]

"Environmentalism does not involve the worship of Gaia."

1. Gaia
   Gaia is the Greek goddess, which personifies the Earth itself. The wordGaia is a compound of two elements: Ge meaning the Earth and Aiameaning Grandmother, often Gaia is referred to as the Mother of Earth.Gaia Myth - Gaiawww.gaia.fi/company/gaia_myth

2. UNITED NATIONS — Bolivia will this month table a draft United Nations treaty giving “Mother Earth” the same rights as humans — having just passed a domestic law that does the same for bugs, trees and all other natural things in the South American country.
The bid aims to have the UN recognize the Earth as a living entity that humans have sought to “dominate and exploit” — to the point that the “well-being and existence of many beings” is now threatened…. It also establishes a Ministry of Mother Earth, and provides the planet with an ombudsman whose job is to hear nature's complaints as voiced by activist and other groups, including the state.UN document would give 'Mother Earth' same rights as humans

3. “In our contemporary era, Earth Day has become the modern celebration of Gaia. Partakers of this event, whether aware of it or not, play off the ancient pagan beliefs of a Universal Mother. Like the sacred oaths taken in her name, today’s Earth Day celebrants sign environmental petitions, make pledges, and announce resolutions in support of Mother Earth. And like the old sacrifices to the deity, today’s Earth Day practitioners offer sacrifices of “good works” to the planet. Not only is the Earth a deity to be venerated, but the Earth itself – as the representative and embodiment of the Goddess – has become a modern day idol.” All For Gaia: Earth Day and Total Transformation for a Post-Christian World « Forcing Change

Me: Madison Bumgarner

You: Strike one!

Where ever did you get the idea that the world's environmental movement was run by the Bolivians?

What percentage of environmentalists do you think worship Gaia? One in a hundred? One in a thousand? How many people do you think would assert that they had NO concern for the environment? One in ten thousand?

Your arguments here are absurd. All of them.

It is paramount to PC extreme rhetoric that they ALL worship Gaia... she is totally incapable of any civil discussion.

I can be nicer if you could be smarter.

No you can't PC. You are unable to have a civil conversation.

Well, then, we're even.
"No you can't" certainly applies to my request that you be smarter.

Thanks for proving my point PC. BTW, when are you going to pick apart the excerpt of Robert F. Kennedy Jr's speech and tell us where Teddy Roosevelt would disagree?

 

[initforme]

I enjoy the fact that bears have some place to live. Protect their habitat. What is wrong with saving some forest lands from human corruption? It is pure common sense. If you don't believe in this then you think Chinese air is safe to breathe. Look at what industry has done to that country..turned it into a god forsaken pit.

 

[PoliticalChic]

There are certain natural places in which humans simply should not be able to own or profit from. And surely we must protect our resources from industry whose goal is to exploit it for profit and willfully and purposely damage it

More specifically, there are essential resources that cannot and SHOULD not be owned by anyone. The air we breathe, the water we drink, the soil we seed. It is the rule of the commons that goes back to the Magna Carta.

"....The air we breathe, the water we drink,..."

See....that's what I mean: you're a moron.


"DETROIT (Reuters) - U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Steven Rhodes ruled on Monday that Detroit can continue shutting off water service to non-paying customers, saying his court does not have jurisdiction over the issue and that suspending disconnections for six months could hurt the city's finances.

"Detroit cannot afford any revenue slippages," the judge said, before resuming his ongoing hearing on Detroit's plan to exit the biggest-ever municipal bankruptcy.

....Detroit began what some witnesses last week described as an "aggressive campaign" to pare down $90 million in overdue bills.

Mayor Mike Duggan in August issued a month-long moratorium on shutoffs and implemented a plan to help low-income customers pay their bills that Rhodes called "bold, commendable and necessarily aggressive."

Without collecting on delinquent bill payers, the department would have to increase charges....."
U.S. bankruptcy judge allows Detroit water shutoffs to continue - Yahoo News

 

[Old Rocks]

What the hell does that have to do with the pollution of the water and atmosphere, PoliticalShit?

 

[PoliticalChic]

There are certain natural places in which humans simply should not be able to own or profit from. And surely we must protect our resources from industry whose goal is to exploit it for profit and willfully and purposely damage it

More specifically, there are essential resources that cannot and SHOULD not be owned by anyone. The air we breathe, the water we drink, the soil we seed. It is the rule of the commons that goes back to the Magna Carta.

So....what are you....communist? socialist? Liberal? all-around imbecile?


If you were capable of learning, this MIGHT help:

8. Let's review:

So, John Locke wrote that private property rights are intimately intertwined with liberty.The Founding Fathers studied, and revered Locke.

Government was about enforcing laws that ensured private property rights.


Primitive peoples had no concept of said rights until early settlers put a value on furs, and that value was found in the free market.




9. Watch this bit of irony: at the same time as the Founders were espousing capitalism, the free market, and private property, the provenance of every totalitarian revolution burst on the scene, in the form of the French Revolution!

Jean-Jacques Rousseau.
Rousseau was the spiritual godfather of the French Revolution, and every similar one that followed it!
Know what those 'similar' ones were?
Right....the most maniacal, sociopathic revolutions in history!

a. " If the French revolution was the end of monarchy and aristocratic privilege and the emergence of the common man and democratic rights, it was also the beginnings ofmodern totalitarian government and large-scale executions of "enemies of the People" by impersonal government entities (Robespierre's "Committee of Public Safety").
This legacy would not reach its fullest bloom until the tragic arrival of the German Nazis and Soviet and Chinese communists of the 20th century. Jean-Jacques Rousseau, the precursor of the modern pseudo-democrats such as Stalin and Hitler and the "people's democracies."
French Revolution - Robespierre and the Legacy of the Reign of Terror



Guess what Rousseau blamed for all evil in the world?


Yup....private property.


10. What Rousseau saw as the culprit, the source of every evil in society, was the same one as does every communist and Leftist, Occupy'er and Obamunist,
....he blames the existence of private property for a loss of liberty...the very opposite of the truth.



a. This is what Rousseau wrote:

"THE first man who, having enclosed a piece of ground, bethought himself of sayingThis is mine, and found people simple enough to believe him, was the real founder of civil society. From how many crimes, wars and murders, from how many horrors and misfortunes might not any one have saved mankind, by pulling up the stakes, or filling up the ditch, and crying to his fellows, "Beware of listening to this impostor; you are undone if you once forget that the fruits of the earth belong to us all, and the earth itself to nobody."
Jean Jacques Rousseau (1754), "On the Origin of the Inequality of Mankind."Rousseau On the Origin of Inequality First Part




b.[Rousseau believed] "Private property was followed by laws to protect it, magistrates to carry out the laws, and kings to pass them. The happy independence of the savage,who wants for nothing as he knows of nothing he might want, is replaced by the master/slave relationship of ruler to ruled, which is the result of civil society, association and trade. Thus civilised man sinks into ‘the last degree of inequality’which endures until ‘the government is ... dissolved by new revolutions...The popular insurrection that ends in the death or deposition of a Sultan is as lawful an act as those by which he disposed, the day before, of the lives and fortunes of his subjects’.
"Wild In The Woods," by Robert Whelan, p.18.
"....the death or deposition..."
He's suggesting same for any who own anything!
Workers of the world unite, and all that.....

No wonder France became an abattoir....

"In the course of France's short revolution, 600,000 French citizens were killed, and another 145,000 fled the country."
Schom, "Napoleon Bonaparte," p. 253.

Know who was listening? Stalin, Hitler, Mao....



So:
Noble savage, Roussseau, communism, property rights. Which one is not like the others?

The Importance of Private Property. Page 2 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

 

[Old Rocks]

All that, and you said what? PoliticalShit, maybe you have better be checked for dementia.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I enjoy the fact that bears have some place to live. Protect their habitat. What is wrong with saving some forest lands from human corruption? It is pure common sense. If you don't believe in this then you think Chinese air is safe to breathe. Look at what industry has done to that country..turned it into a god forsaken pit.

" human corruption?"

Oh,no...another imbecile.


"Ownership is not only a right, it is a duty.Ownership obligates Use your property as if it had been entrusted to you by the people."
Oswald Spengler

1. Born out of a fear that pastoral lands would be overrun by developers, the environmentalists practice ‘fortress conservation,’ the typical form of conservation everywhere. It involves locking down as much land as possible and practicing ‘natural regulation,’ which means no one touches it! Ever. Not even ‘disturbing the vegetation.’
2. Now, for most of recorded history, humans have practiced adaptive management of resources., i.e., when a problem crops up, we solve it. If we want a landscape, we create one; a working forest, ditto.
3. Rangeland, farmland, townscapes- all can be managed for bounty and health of resources and people!
4. But ‘natural regulation’ began in the 1960’s in almost all land-use agencies in the world and quickly became the preferred method by which all resources and land were to be managed. Over the past five decades, natural regulation has been adapted almost everywhere. Nature knows best.
5. To environmentalists, man is a virus and a despoiler and must be controlled!"Eco-Fascists," Nickson, chapter two.

 

[PoliticalChic]

What the hell does that have to do with the pollution of the water and atmosphere, PoliticalShit?

When you get to the men`s room, you will see a sign that says, "Gentlemen." Pay no heed to it. Go right on in

 

[Crick]

I enjoy the fact that bears have some place to live. Protect their habitat. What is wrong with saving some forest lands from human corruption? It is pure common sense. If you don't believe in this then you think Chinese air is safe to breathe. Look at what industry has done to that country..turned it into a god forsaken pit.

" human corruption?"

Oh,no...another imbecile.

Imbecile? Because they'd like to save some land for wildlife? Because they think the results of the unfettered industrialization practiced by the Chinese for the last several decades are undesirable? That it's something we ought try to avoid? You've got some odd priorities there.

"Ownership is not only a right, it is a duty.Ownership obligates Use your property as if it had been entrusted to you by the people."
Oswald Spengler

On which side of Spengler's comment do you stand? It's not clear.

1. Born out of a fear that pastoral lands would be overrun by developers, the environmentalists practice ‘fortress conservation,’ the typical form of conservation everywhere. It involves locking down as much land as possible and practicing ‘natural regulation,’ which means no one touches it! Ever. Not even ‘disturbing the vegetation.’
2. Now, for most of recorded history, humans have practiced adaptive management of resources., i.e., when a problem crops up, we solve it. If we want a landscape, we create one; a working forest, ditto.
3. Rangeland, farmland, townscapes- all can be managed for bounty and health of resources and people!
4. But ‘natural regulation’ began in the 1960’s in almost all land-use agencies in the world and quickly became the preferred method by which all resources and land were to be managed. Over the past five decades, natural regulation has been adapted almost everywhere. Nature knows best.
5. To environmentalists, man is a virus and a despoiler and must be controlled!"Eco-Fascists," Nickson, chapter two.

From Wikipedia's article on Environmentalism

Environmentalism is a broad philosophy, ideology and social movement regarding concerns for environmental protection and improvement of the health of the environment, particularly as the measure for this health seeks to incorporate the concerns of non-human elements. Environmentalism advocates the preservation, restoration and/or improvement of the natural environment, and may be referred to as a movement to control pollution or protect plant and animal diversity.[1] For this reason, concepts such as a land ethic,environmental ethics, biodiversity, ecology and the biophilia hypothesis figure predominantly.

At its crux, environmentalism is an attempt to balance relations between humans and the various natural systems on which they depend in such a way that all the components are accorded a proper degree of sustainability. The exact measures and outcomes of this balance is controversial and there are many different ways for environmental concerns to be expressed in practice. Environmentalism and environmental concerns are often represented by the color green,[2] but this association has been appropriated by the marketing industries and is a key tactic of greenwashing. Environmentalism is opposed by anti-environmentalism, which takes a skeptical stance against many environmentalist perspectives.

 

[Bfgrn]

There are certain natural places in which humans simply should not be able to own or profit from. And surely we must protect our resources from industry whose goal is to exploit it for profit and willfully and purposely damage it

More specifically, there are essential resources that cannot and SHOULD not be owned by anyone. The air we breathe, the water we drink, the soil we seed. It is the rule of the commons that goes back to the Magna Carta.

"....The air we breathe, the water we drink,..."

See....that's what I mean: you're a moron.


"DETROIT (Reuters) - U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Steven Rhodes ruled on Monday that Detroit can continue shutting off water service to non-paying customers, saying his court does not have jurisdiction over the issue and that suspending disconnections for six months could hurt the city's finances.

"Detroit cannot afford any revenue slippages," the judge said, before resuming his ongoing hearing on Detroit's plan to exit the biggest-ever municipal bankruptcy.

....Detroit began what some witnesses last week described as an "aggressive campaign" to pare down $90 million in overdue bills.

Mayor Mike Duggan in August issued a month-long moratorium on shutoffs and implemented a plan to help low-income customers pay their bills that Rhodes called "bold, commendable and necessarily aggressive."

Without collecting on delinquent bill payers, the department would have to increase charges....."
U.S. bankruptcy judge allows Detroit water shutoffs to continue - Yahoo News

PC, a 'moron' is someone who doesn't understand issues, and is unable to decipher what forces are behind those issues.

The residents of Detroit no longer have the same Constitutional rights as other citizens of this nation. They now live under a dictatorship. The right wing Governor of Michigan castrated representative government in Detroit.

Detroit Shuts Off Water to Residents but Not to Businesses Who Owe Millions
More than 15,000 households have had their taps turned off for being past due. Yet the bankrupt city hasn’t touched 40 businesses who owe $9.5 million in total.

DETROIT — In Detroit, even the most basic necessity cannot be taken for granted.

Some 15,000 residential customers have lost water service, and tens of thousands more are in danger of losing it, thanks to past due bills. But businesses owing hundreds of thousands of dollars have not been disconnected, Detroit Water and Sewerage Department records show.

According to a department list, the top 40 commercial and industrial accounts have past-due accounts totaling $9.5 million. That list includes apartment complexes, the Chrysler Group, real estate agencies, a laundromat and even a cemetery.

Meanwhile, stories of residential shutoffs abound. Tangela Harris been doing her best to keep up, but when she was no longer able to work she had trouble stretching her monthly $780 in disability benefits to pay the water bill. So her water service was disconnected. Harris has since come up with $1,100 to have services restored but is having trouble keeping her $180 monthly payment to the water department. On top of that, her home has entered foreclosure because Detroit water bills are rolled into property taxes.

“They can say my house is condemned and take it,” said Harris, 38, a community organizer. “People think we’re not prioritizing, but it’s not that simple when you’re under the poverty level. It’s a different mindset.”

In March, the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department announced it was going after delinquent accounts in earnest after a reprieve this past winter. The city is in bankruptcy, after all, and looking for revenue where it can. In March, about half the department’s customers had outstanding balances, meaning they are at least 60 days past due or more than $150 behind. That amounted to $118 million in charges. Through June 30, service was severed to 15,200 customers, and about 92,000 remain in shutoff status.

The $9.5 million owed by non-residents would amount to $625 for each severed customer and $103 for those in shutoff status.

So far, most businesses have been exempt. At the beginning of July, the department issued 10-day shutoff notices to 250 commercial customers. Despite repeated requests, the department was unable to say how many of those, if any, have had their services discontinued. Vargo Golf Co., an Oakland County-based golf course management firm, owes $478,000, while a business called Russell Industrial Associations is more than $181,000 behind.

The $9.5 million owed by non-residents would amount to $625 for each severed customer.
The No. 1 scofflaw isn’t a business but the State of Michigan, which the department said owes more than $5 million. Dave Murray, deputy press secretary for Gov. Rick Snyder (who is sheparding Detroit through the largest municipal bankruptcy in U.S. history) said the bills have been disputed for the last five years over a possible broken water main near the old state fairgrounds in the city limits, which was mothballed several years ago.

 

[Bfgrn]

Well PC, you have proven beyond ANY doubt what I have posted before...

People only need to ask themselves a simple question after reading your posts...

When you understand what conservatism is, every argument PC makes leads to the same end.

Q: What is conservatism?
A: Conservatism is the domination of society by an aristocracy.

When you understand this and view her words, ask the question; will this lead to some form of an aristocracy?

The answer is always YES...


Liberalism is trust of the people, tempered by prudence; conservatism, distrust of people, tempered by fear.
William E. Gladstone