Environmental Downside of Electric Vehicles

task0778

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Mar 10, 2017
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According to the International Energy Agency (IEA), an electric vehicle requires six times the mineral inputs of a comparable internal combustion engine vehicle (ICE). EV batteries are very heavy and are made with some exotic, expensive, toxic, and flammable materials.

The primary metals in EV batteries include Nickel, Lithium, Cobalt, Copper and Rare Earth metals (Neodymium and Dysprosium). The mining of these materials, their use in manufacturing and their ultimate disposal all present significant environmental challenges. Ninety percent of the ICE lead-acid batteries are recycled while only five percent of the EV lithium-ion batteries are.
.
... the power for EVs is dependent on a mixture of diverse commodities from just a handful of third world countries. In spite of the environmental hysteria about oil drilling, the surface area disturbed is relatively small since the oil is extracted from under the ground. In contrast, many of the materials prominent in the clean energy revolution are obtained through open-pit horizontal mining which is extremely damaging to wide areas of the environment.

Nickel
Nickel, a major component of the EV batteries, is found just below the topsoil in the Rainforests of Indonesia and the Philippines. As a result, the nickel is extracted using horizontal surface mining that results in extensive environmental degradation: deforestation and removal of the top layer of soil.

Lithium
Over half of the world’s Lithium reserves are found in three South American countries that border the Andes Mountains: Chile, Argentina and Bolivia. These countries are collectively known as the “Lithium Triangle”. According to the Institute for Energy Research, Lithium is found in salt flats in very arid areas which complicates the mining process. A multi-mineral mixture containing Lithium is removed from beneath the salt flats. The Lithium extraction from the mixture is a lengthy, 12 to 18 months, evaporation process that is water intensive. Each ton of lithium produced requires 500,000 gallons of water. Besides the discarded mineral salt mixture, the process can result in water and soil contamination plus a depleted water table.

It should be noted that the United States is 4th in total Lithium reserves behind the Lithium Triangle countries. However, NIMBY (Not In My Backyard) environmental protests to “Save the Planet” have stymied efforts to develop the US Lithium market. It seems that our provincial “Earth-Firsters” want to maintain a pristine US, but have no problem turning a blind eye to the environmental exploitation of third world countries.

Cobalt
... the overriding problem here is human rights: dangerous working conditions and the use of child labor. Cobalt is a toxic metal. Prolonged exposure and inhalation of Cobalt dust can lead to health issues of the eyes, skin, and lungs. Because Cobalt can be easily extracted from the ground by hand, small scale, bare-bones “artisanal” mines are common. The simplicity of the operation discourages/negates the need for occupational safety measures and encourages the use of child labor. ... Of the 255,000 Congolese mining for cobalt, 40,000 are children, some as young as six years. Despite the potentially fatal health effects of prolonged exposure to cobalt, adult and child miners work without even the most basic protective equipment.

Copper
Chile is the leading producer of the world’s Copper. The vast majority of Chile’s Copper comes from open-pit/strip mines. This type of mining negatively affects vegetation, topsoil, wildlife habitats, and groundwater. The next three largest producers of copper are Peru, China, and the infamous Democratic Republic of the Congo. Number five happens to be the United States. Several states in particular, such as Minnesota and Arizona, show promise as new sources for domestic copper using underground mining instead of open-pit mining.

However, on January 26th, the Biden Administration canceled two copper mining leases in Minnesota. Commenting on the matter, Interior Secretary Deb Haaland said, “the Department of the Interior takes seriously our obligations to steward public lands and waters on behalf of all Americans.” This decision was applauded by the strongest supporters of America’s quest for Clean Energy: Environmentalists and Democrats.
.
.
For all the “happy talk” about Clean Energy, our actions simply show a superficial commitment. We don’t want to do the heavy lifting that it will take to make the transition to Clean Energy. Our role in the Clean Energy revolution will be limited to the final assembly of electric vehicles. But hey, that is good enough for our virtue signalling Earth First environmentalists and politicians.

What is needed, however, is an honest and comprehensive evaluation of the entire life cycle of clean energy from raw materials through disposition. There are pros and cons to all forms of energy. To date, all we have heard are the benefits of clean energy. It is now time to highlight the true costs of clean energy which must include the negative societal and environmental impact as well.



How dishonest is it to claim we should save the environment here in the US but it's okay to destroy the environment in other places? One might think the real aim is to make tons of money from gov't subsidies and loans by selling EVs while raping the environment elsewhere and taking advantage of 3rd world countries.
 
Their comeuppance is coming. :omg:

Revelation 11:18
And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
 
IMHO, ultimately it comes down to money and politics, which I suppose ends up being the same thing. No question that there are so many people who earnestly believe in EVs as the answer or a big part of the answer to the global warming/climate change problem. But no one really knows how serious that problem really is, some say it will be catastrophic while others say otherwise. And it doesn't help when we've heard dire predictions and projections for at least the last 30 years that have all been false; the North Pole is not ice free, the polar bears are not extinct, and Florida is not under water. And yet we have the environmentalists still screaming gloom an doom and donating huge amounts of money to the democrats who champion their cause. The Green New Deal is said to cost some $90 trillion according to some estimates, and I don't think that covers the real cost to the lower income people if they have to adapt to the proposed changes.

What would the environmental impact be if gas-powered cars and trucks were summarily eliminated in favor of EVs? No doubt the Left would drastically underestimate that if they bother to consider it at all. These days it feels like we're being scammed on a number of issues so that certain people can get rich or richer on the gov'ts dime, which is actually our dime. It's all about rewarding your party's benefactors when you can, cuz if you don't they will stop supporting you financially. I get that we should as a society and as occupants on this planet try to clean up the air and water, and we've made strides to do that over the last 30 years or so. But you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater and make it too expansive for most people that ain't rich to survive or at least keep up their standard of living. IOW, we gotta be sensible about it but I'm not seeing much of that from the Left or the environmentalists.
 
The future of the automotive industry is in Electric Vehicles

May as well accept the fact

Only the deep matrix dwellers think that.

Americans disinterest in EV's could not possibly be any more prolific.

Drive around town tomorrow for 30 minutes and count how many EV's you see. :up:

1% of the cars on the road are electric....only a progressive would be impressed and take bows.
 
Only the deep matrix dwellers think that.

Americans disinterest in EV's could not possibly be any more prolific.

Drive around town tomorrow for 30 minutes and count how many EV's you see. :up:

1% of the cars on the road are electric....only a progressive would be impressed and take bows.
Guess what?

ALL the Automotive manufacturers think that
They are investing all R&D in electric vehicles
New manufacturing is in EVs

They see the writing on the wall
 
According to the International Energy Agency (IEA), an electric vehicle requires six times the mineral inputs of a comparable internal combustion engine vehicle (ICE). EV batteries are very heavy and are made with some exotic, expensive, toxic, and flammable materials.

The primary metals in EV batteries include Nickel, Lithium, Cobalt, Copper and Rare Earth metals (Neodymium and Dysprosium). The mining of these materials, their use in manufacturing and their ultimate disposal all present significant environmental challenges. Ninety percent of the ICE lead-acid batteries are recycled while only five percent of the EV lithium-ion batteries are.
.

... the power for EVs is dependent on a mixture of diverse commodities from just a handful of third world countries. In spite of the environmental hysteria about oil drilling, the surface area disturbed is relatively small since the oil is extracted from under the ground. In contrast, many of the materials prominent in the clean energy revolution are obtained through open-pit horizontal mining which is extremely damaging to wide areas of the environment.

Nickel
Nickel, a major component of the EV batteries, is found just below the topsoil in the Rainforests of Indonesia and the Philippines. As a result, the nickel is extracted using horizontal surface mining that results in extensive environmental degradation: deforestation and removal of the top layer of soil.

Lithium
Over half of the world’s Lithium reserves are found in three South American countries that border the Andes Mountains: Chile, Argentina and Bolivia. These countries are collectively known as the “Lithium Triangle”. According to the Institute for Energy Research, Lithium is found in salt flats in very arid areas which complicates the mining process. A multi-mineral mixture containing Lithium is removed from beneath the salt flats. The Lithium extraction from the mixture is a lengthy, 12 to 18 months, evaporation process that is water intensive. Each ton of lithium produced requires 500,000 gallons of water. Besides the discarded mineral salt mixture, the process can result in water and soil contamination plus a depleted water table.

It should be noted that the United States is 4th in total Lithium reserves behind the Lithium Triangle countries. However, NIMBY (Not In My Backyard) environmental protests to “Save the Planet” have stymied efforts to develop the US Lithium market. It seems that our provincial “Earth-Firsters” want to maintain a pristine US, but have no problem turning a blind eye to the environmental exploitation of third world countries.

Cobalt
... the overriding problem here is human rights: dangerous working conditions and the use of child labor. Cobalt is a toxic metal. Prolonged exposure and inhalation of Cobalt dust can lead to health issues of the eyes, skin, and lungs. Because Cobalt can be easily extracted from the ground by hand, small scale, bare-bones “artisanal” mines are common. The simplicity of the operation discourages/negates the need for occupational safety measures and encourages the use of child labor. ... Of the 255,000 Congolese mining for cobalt, 40,000 are children, some as young as six years. Despite the potentially fatal health effects of prolonged exposure to cobalt, adult and child miners work without even the most basic protective equipment.

Copper
Chile is the leading producer of the world’s Copper. The vast majority of Chile’s Copper comes from open-pit/strip mines. This type of mining negatively affects vegetation, topsoil, wildlife habitats, and groundwater. The next three largest producers of copper are Peru, China, and the infamous Democratic Republic of the Congo. Number five happens to be the United States. Several states in particular, such as Minnesota and Arizona, show promise as new sources for domestic copper using underground mining instead of open-pit mining.

However, on January 26th, the Biden Administration canceled two copper mining leases in Minnesota. Commenting on the matter, Interior Secretary Deb Haaland said, “the Department of the Interior takes seriously our obligations to steward public lands and waters on behalf of all Americans.” This decision was applauded by the strongest supporters of America’s quest for Clean Energy: Environmentalists and Democrats.
.
.
For all the “happy talk” about Clean Energy, our actions simply show a superficial commitment. We don’t want to do the heavy lifting that it will take to make the transition to Clean Energy. Our role in the Clean Energy revolution will be limited to the final assembly of electric vehicles. But hey, that is good enough for our virtue signalling Earth First environmentalists and politicians.

What is needed, however, is an honest and comprehensive evaluation of the entire life cycle of clean energy from raw materials through disposition. There are pros and cons to all forms of energy. To date, all we have heard are the benefits of clean energy. It is now time to highlight the true costs of clean energy which must include the negative societal and environmental impact as well.



How dishonest is it to claim we should save the environment here in the US but it's okay to destroy the environment in other places? One might think the real aim is to make tons of money from gov't subsidies and loans by selling EVs while raping the environment elsewhere and taking advantage of 3rd world countries.
Lithium iron phosphate batteries. Lithium sulfur batteries. Sodium ion batteries. And many more permutations that they are working on now. Even working on a diamond battery featuring carbon 14. Basically, you whole post is just silly bullshit.
 
Only the deep matrix dwellers think that.

Americans disinterest in EV's could not possibly be any more prolific.

Drive around town tomorrow for 30 minutes and count how many EV's you see. :up:

1% of the cars on the road are electric....only a progressive would be impressed and take bows.
More dumbfuckery from a dumfuck. Even with the production of the huge Austin factory coming online, Tesla models are sold out until 2023.

!%, bullshit. 4%, and the only reason it is that low is that the Austin plant is just now in production;

"The United States is a much smaller market for EVs, in comparison. Only 535,000 cars, representing about 4% of new cars sold in the United States, were electric.Feb 14, 2022"
 
Their comeuppance is coming. :omg:

Revelation 11:18
And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Fucking religious nuts praying for the end of civilization. What a pox on our civilization.
 
More dumbfuckery from a dumfuck. Even with the production of the huge Austin factory coming online, Tesla models are sold out until 2023.

!%, bullshit. 4%, and the only reason it is that low is that the Austin plant is just now in production;

"The United States is a much smaller market for EVs, in comparison. Only 535,000 cars, representing about 4% of new cars sold in the United States, were electric.Feb 14, 2022"

Hey you're just pissed that after 10 years, on a HUGE scale, Americans still prefer their ICE vehicle...fAcT. That's some dumb fuckery, eh?!

C'mon dude...in this forum, all your shit is unicorn chasing. For 12 years now. Linus in the Pumpkin Patch comes to mind.

Being off the grid in Bumfook USA has made your perceptions of things real sketchy. Yours on the fringes of any Bell Curve....fAcT.

You routinely throw out % fakery that no serious person finds credible. Only progressives do this...publicizing rate increase %'s compared to NOTHING except prior years measured against itself. "Sales increased 4%...500K new orders!". While Americans are going out and buying 13 million ICE vehicles this year. Drrrrr

It's like saying you've increased the size of your home defense by buying 50% bigger Wiffle Ball Bats. :eusa_dance:

Dude...you're not a serious person.







elon-musk-twitter-memes-funny.jpeg
 
Hey you're just pissed that after 10 years, on a HUGE scale, Americans still prefer their ICE vehicle...fAcT. That's some dumb fuckery, eh?!

C'mon dude...in this forum, all your shit is unicorn chasing. For 12 years now. Linus in the Pumpkin Patch comes to mind.

Being off the grid in Bumfook USA has made your perceptions of things real sketchy. Yours on the fringes of any Bell Curve....fAcT.

You routinely throw out % fakery that no serious person finds credible. Only progressives do this...publicizing rate increase %'s compared to NOTHING except prior years measured against itself. "Sales increased 4%...500K new orders!". While Americans are going out and buying 13 million ICE vehicles this year. Drrrrr

It's like saying you've increased the size of your home defense by buying 50% bigger Wiffle Ball Bats. :eusa_dance:

Dude...you're not a serious person.







View attachment 636940

”Them Horseless Carriages will never catch on”
 
Guess what?

ALL the Automotive manufacturers think that
They are investing all R&D in electric vehicles
New manufacturing is in EVs

They see the writing on the wall
They are being told to by the government. When the government says a company won't be able to sell ICE cars in ten years, what other choice to the auto makers have. They will either build what the government lets them sell or go out of business.
 
They are being told to by the government. When the government says a company won't be able to sell ICE cars in ten years, what other choice to the auto makers have. They will either build what the government lets them sell or go out of business.

Guess what?
Electric Vehicles are being sold all over the world
More overseas than in the US (10 million)

What the US Government does has little impact
 
Another gloom and doom anti-EV thread

Face reality….EVs are here for good

Yeah, it gets really tiring to have people non-stop slag folks who are at least TRYING to do the right thing.

I think it's reasonable to assume there are ecological costs to an EV, maybe even some that aren't present in ICE cars. But once made the ICE car pollutes every single second it is in use. The EV, not so much.
 
They are being told to by the government. When the government says a company won't be able to sell ICE cars in ten years, what other choice to the auto makers have. They will either build what the government lets them sell or go out of business.

RIght now ICE car manufacturers are already under control as to what they can and cannot sell. That's what the CAFE standards are all about. Granted those have been significantly loosened during Trump's term, but in the long haul there are limits on what a car manufacturer can make and sell.
 

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