Employed, Unemployed and Uninsured.

[RDD_1210]

Act your age.

You're just proving my point everytime you post. Please neg rep me and go away.

I deleted the post, b/c I didnt want to be a jackass.... but since you quoted it before I could,

Why is it you "liberals" think America owes you ANYTHING?
It should be the other way around. What have you got to offer America besides give me give me take take take!

Who said anyone owes me anything? I'm arguing for quite the opposite. I want us to all pitch in and help the less fortunate who are struggling. I am asking what I can do for my country. I can afford health insurance but I know not everyone is as fortunate as I am. I am fine with higher taxes for myself if it means it will help those who truly need it. Will some of that benefit actual free loaders and dead beats? Sure, but it will also help the millions of people who do need that help and I'm ok with that trade off.

See, in the other thread I pointed out that you were one of those very people who only likes to throw insults, neg reps and avoid actual discussion. You promptly gave me shit for that statement.

Yet here we are and I gave you the benefit of the doubt even though you've already acted like an ass in this thread and neg rep'd me. I still responded to your questioning with a response. And look at that.....not a peep from you. You make this too easy to prove how right I am about people like you.

Pathetic.

 

[hortysir]

Again, why do we need to deprive people of something that is literally about life and death and affecting millions of people now, because of what *might* happen down the road and on a much smaller scale. I don't understand the fear. If you support people being able to get health care no matter what then support it, if you are against every student getting a computer/ipad/etc... then don't support that. I don't understand what a vote for one means you have to vote for all? Vote for and support what you think is important on a case by case basis.

Not depriving anyone of anything. One can still pay for medical expenses without having insurance.
It is still a good/service.
Nowhere in the Declaration or Constitution is it the federal government's job to provide and/or require purchase of a good/service.

Nothing against people "getting" health care coverage any more than I'm against people getting satellite tv in their home.
I am, however, against me paying for your's.

Nope, Atlanta area hospitals today admitted that they charge 500-600% MORE for the uninsured for the same procedures.
Same nationwide. They are legally ripping everyone off. Look it up. Been going on for decades. And insurance companies have all kinds of side agreements in place and are immune from anti trust laws.
Insurance companies run the show in every state. And it is bad, just as bad as government running it.
We need to go back to where everyone has their own health insurance policy personally. Like auto and home they will not pay for maintenance just like your auto does not pay for tires and oil changes and your home owners does not pay for new carpet, HVAC and paint.

Group health insurance has ruined American health care. Americans with the "I have it I might as well use it" mentality runs the tab up, doctors take advantage of it and the system is over utilized. Coupled with 60 % of all health care dollars spent on 5% of the population, the senior population, on disease care and this ship has already sunk.

I'll reply to this post as it's void of the snide remarks made by others.

I do not recall saying that our health care industry doesn't need an overhaul. It most definitely does.... For, at least, the reasons you've listed.
Prices have sky-rocketed out of reach for all but the wealthiest among us.

My point was simple. It's not my government's place to nurse me.

I never hinted that it was easy to pay for a medical procedure out of one's own pocket, without insurance coverage. Though it can and has been done by myself and others.

I could be convinced to support government having a hand in controlling prices, as they do with several other goods and services.
There's a HUUUUUGE difference between that and telling me that, with the only qualification being my birth, I Must buy health insurance.

 

[Flopper]

I was always totally against any changes to the current system until last year when my father died and I saw first hand the crooked health care system we have. Doctors and hospitals running the tab up hundreds of thousands of dollars per senior, ambulance services billing $900 for a 400 yard ride for an 88 year old man, refusing to release patients, not honoring 10 year old DNR orders, doctors ordering speech and occupational therapy to an 88 year old man to the tune of 12K in 15 days, home health care companies charging $150 an hour sitting around assisted living facilities doing nothing other than billing Medicare and on and on.
The current system is fucked folks. It has to be changed. My nephew is 35, self employed and pays $600 a month for health insurance. At current rise of 15% per year over the last 25 years he will be paying $4800 a month in his eatly 50s for health insurance and health care will be 40% of GNP.
GOP is lost on this one, just as lost as the Democrats.

Well said. I too am familiar with the "best healthcare system in the world". It is the best for the privileged few that can afford it. For the rest of us, if we are lucky, an insurance company decides what care we get or don't get and in some cases, whether we live or die.

A few days ago I received an explanation of benefits from my insurance company for an office visit with a specialist. The bill was $350. The doctor spent about 20 minutes with me, listened to my chest, and my complaints, then wrote a prescription. The insurance company paid $150 and I paid a $30 copay. The doctor wrote off $170, nearly half the bill because he is in the insurance company network and had a contract. Had I not had insurance, the bill would have been $350.

It is a common practice throughout the healthcare industry to pad bills and delivery unneeded service to patients that are too ill to known what's going on. The more services they sell, the more they make. Until we do something about how healthcare services are delivery, the cost will continue to rise.

 

[auditor0007]

I am not against Healthcare reform but I am against how it was shoved down our throats and its mandatory. They should not be allowed to force us to have healthcare PERIOD. People say they make us have car insurance. Not true. You dont have to drive or own a car its an option !!! I am all for everyone having an chance to have healthcare my problem is how they went around doing it!!

This mandatory thing is a hard pill to swallow for many. But let me ask you something? What should we do with those who would choose not to purchase health insurance and who also don't have the money to pay their medical bills when they get sick? Should we require proof that someone can actually pay before treating them?

 

[auditor0007]

So are we going with the "it must explicitly state everything in the constitution" argument today? If so, let's discuss the Air Force and Nuclear weapons.

If you can show me where I've said anything different you can use this argument. I'll wait for you to find it.

So you're in favor of disbanding the air force?

Why take everything to an extreme? Where have I or anyone argued that every american is entitled to owning a home or a computer? You can be rational without taking things to the extreme with your "what if" scenarios. Nothing is more important then your health and thats the only reason I support ensuring all citizens can get all the healthcare that they need.

I'd be willing to bet you a large sum of money that if you'd said 30 years ago that the government would mandate health insurance a vast majority of the population would have said, "Why take everything to an extreme?"

I'm not taking anything to an extreme, I'm merely asking a question. And the question is, if we start mandating things that all Americans must purchase, where does it stop? I know you'll say "of course, it stops with health insurance." But we're setting a precedent here. And as you know once a precedent is set it opens the door for other things to follow.

So, tell me, exactly where do we stop?

In a town in Maine the school district is supplying every kindergartner with a $500 I pad. How long do you think it'll be before it's mandated that every student should start school with an I pad? I don't think it's a far jump, when we start mandating that every American should have a certain thing, that other larger things will follow.

I'd like to know where we stop. It's a serious question.

Rick

We stop with health insurance. I've never advocated for requiring any other product/service but we unfortunately live in a society where having health insurance really is the only way to get sufficient health care for the masses. You can't live in fear of what *might* happen when we need to fix what IS happening. I support health care for all because I believe that is a basic right. Owning a computer or a house is not a right and I would not support that. We are individuals with brains who should be able to decide what makes sense on a case-by-case basis and be afraid of the "what-ifs" is ridiculous since we should be concerned with what "what is".

This entire argument over healthcare will eventually become moot, because eventually we will have national healthcare. No matter how we try to address the problem now, we are not going to bring costs down. Healthcare will eventually eat up 35 to 40 percent of GDP. At some point, we will be forced to look at making drastic changes to the entire system.

As for now, if there are enough people who do not want to make health insurance mandatory, then fine. Don't make it mandatory. Just stop allowing insurance companies to deny coverage to those who become sick. Secondly pool everyone together, so those who are sick don't end having to spend three times as much as everyone else for an inferior plan, because that would just be the same as denying coverage for most people.

After that, we will need to make a decision as to whether or not we treat those who do not have coverage in the instances when they cannot afford their treatment. There are an awful lot of people out there who gamble on their health. They have the money to pay for health insurance, but they do not because they think they never will get sick, and if they do, they know they will receive at least some treatment. Financially, in a worst case scenario, they will just file bankruptcy. So for people like that, I would suggest that we just don't treat them.

 

[Gadawg73]

Not depriving anyone of anything. One can still pay for medical expenses without having insurance.
It is still a good/service.
Nowhere in the Declaration or Constitution is it the federal government's job to provide and/or require purchase of a good/service.

Nothing against people "getting" health care coverage any more than I'm against people getting satellite tv in their home.
I am, however, against me paying for your's.

Nope, Atlanta area hospitals today admitted that they charge 500-600% MORE for the uninsured for the same procedures.
Same nationwide. They are legally ripping everyone off. Look it up. Been going on for decades. And insurance companies have all kinds of side agreements in place and are immune from anti trust laws.
Insurance companies run the show in every state. And it is bad, just as bad as government running it.
We need to go back to where everyone has their own health insurance policy personally. Like auto and home they will not pay for maintenance just like your auto does not pay for tires and oil changes and your home owners does not pay for new carpet, HVAC and paint.

Group health insurance has ruined American health care. Americans with the "I have it I might as well use it" mentality runs the tab up, doctors take advantage of it and the system is over utilized. Coupled with 60 % of all health care dollars spent on 5% of the population, the senior population, on disease care and this ship has already sunk.

I'll reply to this post as it's void of the snide remarks made by others.

I do not recall saying that our health care industry doesn't need an overhaul. It most definitely does.... For, at least, the reasons you've listed.
Prices have sky-rocketed out of reach for all but the wealthiest among us.

My point was simple. It's not my government's place to nurse me.

I never hinted that it was easy to pay for a medical procedure out of one's own pocket, without insurance coverage. Though it can and has been done by myself and others.

I could be convinced to support government having a hand in controlling prices, as they do with several other goods and services.
There's a HUUUUUGE difference between that and telling me that, with the only qualification being my birth, I Must buy health insurance.

Unlike the politicians be they Democrat or Republican you and I are at the table discussing.
I respect your post.

 

[Gadawg73]

If you can show me where I've said anything different you can use this argument. I'll wait for you to find it.

So you're in favor of disbanding the air force?

I'd be willing to bet you a large sum of money that if you'd said 30 years ago that the government would mandate health insurance a vast majority of the population would have said, "Why take everything to an extreme?"

I'm not taking anything to an extreme, I'm merely asking a question. And the question is, if we start mandating things that all Americans must purchase, where does it stop? I know you'll say "of course, it stops with health insurance." But we're setting a precedent here. And as you know once a precedent is set it opens the door for other things to follow.

So, tell me, exactly where do we stop?

In a town in Maine the school district is supplying every kindergartner with a $500 I pad. How long do you think it'll be before it's mandated that every student should start school with an I pad? I don't think it's a far jump, when we start mandating that every American should have a certain thing, that other larger things will follow.

I'd like to know where we stop. It's a serious question.

Rick

We stop with health insurance. I've never advocated for requiring any other product/service but we unfortunately live in a society where having health insurance really is the only way to get sufficient health care for the masses. You can't live in fear of what *might* happen when we need to fix what IS happening. I support health care for all because I believe that is a basic right. Owning a computer or a house is not a right and I would not support that. We are individuals with brains who should be able to decide what makes sense on a case-by-case basis and be afraid of the "what-ifs" is ridiculous since we should be concerned with what "what is".

This entire argument over healthcare will eventually become moot, because eventually we will have national healthcare. No matter how we try to address the problem now, we are not going to bring costs down. Healthcare will eventually eat up 35 to 40 percent of GDP. At some point, we will be forced to look at making drastic changes to the entire system.

As for now, if there are enough people who do not want to make health insurance mandatory, then fine. Don't make it mandatory. Just stop allowing insurance companies to deny coverage to those who become sick. Secondly pool everyone together, so those who are sick don't end having to spend three times as much as everyone else for an inferior plan, because that would just be the same as denying coverage for most people.

After that, we will need to make a decision as to whether or not we treat those who do not have coverage in the instances when they cannot afford their treatment. There are an awful lot of people out there who gamble on their health. They have the money to pay for health insurance, but they do not because they think they never will get sick, and if they do, they know they will receive at least some treatment. Financially, in a worst case scenario, they will just file bankruptcy. So for people like that, I would suggest that we just don't treat them.

Exactly right and most Americans are too naive that the current model is making the health care sector rich and has no supply and demand principles to it.
The biggest problem is the government sector now. The janitor at the school makes less $$$ than what the taxpayers pay for his health insurance.
If that does not explain how fucked up the current health care world is nothing will.

 

[hortysir]

I am not against Healthcare reform but I am against how it was shoved down our throats and its mandatory. They should not be allowed to force us to have healthcare PERIOD. People say they make us have car insurance. Not true. You dont have to drive or own a car its an option !!! I am all for everyone having an chance to have healthcare my problem is how they went around doing it!!

This mandatory thing is a hard pill to swallow for many. But let me ask you something? What should we do with those who would choose not to purchase health insurance and who also don't have the money to pay their medical bills when they get sick? Should we require proof that someone can actually pay before treating them?

That's exactly where we're at now.
My premiums get raised to help cover the uninsured using ERs as clinics.

 

[Flopper]

I am not against Healthcare reform but I am against how it was shoved down our throats and its mandatory. They should not be allowed to force us to have healthcare PERIOD. People say they make us have car insurance. Not true. You dont have to drive or own a car its an option !!! I am all for everyone having an chance to have healthcare my problem is how they went around doing it!!

This mandatory thing is a hard pill to swallow for many. But let me ask you something? What should we do with those who would choose not to purchase health insurance and who also don't have the money to pay their medical bills when they get sick? Should we require proof that someone can actually pay before treating them?

The doctors I go to, ask for an insurance card or credit card before you see the doctor. For admission to the hospital, the insurance company has to pre-approve the procedure.

 

[rdean]

Employed, Unemployed and Uninsured.

How do the GOP plan to help those millions of Americans who are employed, unemployed and uninsured after they repeal or defund Obamacare? Obamacare is already helping millions of Americans.

Some had healthcare, but became unemployed and could not afford COBRA. Some who are employed, has healthcare and cannot afford to use it because of co-pays and deduction.

Case scenario; A woman with two children, quit her $40,000 job with no healthcare after 11 years to take a job at Starbucks because of the healthcare insurance they offer. One child is in college full time and will graduate in 2012 instead of 2013. She is now earning less, receiving food stamps, energy assistance, paying her mortgage and doing well. She was covered by her ex-husband until he was laid off twice in the last 4 years. She made the decision when her daughter needed a MRI and could not afford the co-pay or her ex’s insurance would not pay for it. If she becomes unemployed she will be without healthcare. Americans should not have to live with this kind of fear. This kind of fear forces people on welfare. Poor but safe.

Americans need Obamacare even if it is not perfect. Nothing is perfect. This woman is just one example of millions of Americans who need healthcare or have healthcare and cannot afford to use it or afford to buy it at all.

Medicare and Medicaid is not perfect but it is providing healthcare for millions of Americans.

GOP’s plan for healthcare to replace Obamacare if for people to “buy” “private healthcare” across state lines?” What part of “can’t afford healthcare” do they not understand?
They refuse to acknowledge the fact that we have poor people in this country of no fault of their own.

There is another thread that covers this topic. The title is: Obama: "We're responsible for each other". Really? Since when?

Read through it and it becomes pretty clear Republicans simply don't care about the middle class and the poor in that way. Instead, they seem to be mostly entertained by suffering Americans. Not sure why. Seems mean to me.

For most of the elderly that supported the Republicans, it's been about "hate the black guy in the WHITE House". But that tide is turning. It's difficult to keep the racist hate going for years. Besides, more and more Republicans are getting "booed" at their own town halls by the very people that got them elected. I can't remember when so many Republicans are being recalled. I don't remember this many marches on state governments. I've never seen teachers and nurses attacked along with the gays and feminists and blacks and Muslims and atheists and college professors.

 

[Samson]

Those two documents say that every American should be forced to purchase health insurance even if they don't want it? Really? Please point out to me exactly where it says that in those two documents.

So are we going with the "it must explicitly state everything in the constitution" argument today? If so, let's discuss the Air Force and Nuclear weapons.

And why stop there, couldn't you also argue then that it is in every American's best interest to own a computer? A car? A home? Let's just mandate all of those as well.

Rick

Why take everything to an extreme? Where have I or anyone argued that every american is entitled to owning a home or a computer? You can be rational without taking things to the extreme with your "what if" scenarios. Nothing is more important then your health and thats the only reason I support ensuring all citizens can get all the healthcare that they need.

YOU stated that those two documents said that Government owes every american healthcare.

It's up to YOU to provide the evidence.......Either provide it, or run along.

Maybe next time, you might try thinking before speaking.

Indeed the tactic of equating missing B-52's from the Constitution with missing Forced Purchasing becomes a little stupid outside the realm of the Coffee-house Left, and academia.

It would be much easier to simply say that the Constitution DOES mention that every US Citizen, (actually Unalienable Rights of Man) deserves life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

The debate is whether it is Government's Job to GIVE (or redistribute wealth) to accomplish this, or is it Government Job to create an environment allowing individuals to PURSUE life, liberty, and happiness.

It seems clear to me that all individuals in the US cannot be given happiness. But they should have the opportunity to be happy. One of the most unhappy feelings is not having the security of knowledge that if your child becomes ill, SOMEONE will care for him.

Therefore, we MUST have some form of Government Guaranteed Catastrophic Health Care. Why this has become complicated enough to require a 2000 page bill is anyone's guess.

 

[initforme]

Mandatory health care isnt the answer. Making health care more affordable is. But neither party wants to go after the insurance companies because they are in bed with them. Again it's the elite wealthy (from both parties) versus the average person. Eventually middle class america will catch on to this...then it will get interesting.