Embattled evol health insurance providers mum on criticism? There's a reason...

[Midnight Marauder]

Last time I checked, evol wasn't a word.

No matter, this sounds like another of your hysterical conspiracy theorist threads.

It's a word I coined years ago. It means "Voluntary Evil" instead of just plain evil because that's its nature.

Evol. People who know they are evil and volunteer to be and stay that way.

 

[Ravi]

Last time I checked, evol wasn't a word.

No matter, this sounds like another of your hysterical conspiracy theorist threads.

It's a word I coined years ago. It means "Voluntary Evil" instead of just plain evil because that's its nature.

Evol. People who know they are evil and volunteer to be and stay that way.

Oh, I get it. Like claiming the health care bill means we will be taxed 15% of our income if we don't purchase health care.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Last time I checked, evol wasn't a word.

No matter, this sounds like another of your hysterical conspiracy theorist threads.

It's a word I coined years ago. It means "Voluntary Evil" instead of just plain evil because that's its nature.

Evol. People who know they are evil and volunteer to be and stay that way.

Oh, I get it. Like claiming the health care bill means we will be taxed 15% of our income if we don't purchase health care.

Have you seen the latest version yet?

Have you nothing to say about the 21 million new customers the evol health insurance providers are potentially getting when this plan goes into effect?

 

[Varth Dader]

The "real public option" won't curtail people getting their insurance from these very same private companies who are being demonized.

Again, it's this simple: 47 million uninsured, being required by law to get insurance. If only 45% of them get private insurance, it's 21 million NEW customers for Evol Insurance. There's no way around that. 21 million new customers they didn't have before, HELPS them, doesn't hurt them.

Even if it's just 20% that get a private health plan, that's 9.4 million new customers.

Buy stock in the top insurers, they're gonna make a killing and you'll get rich on it too.

Additionally, the "public option" is subsidized on the backs of the poor and middle class. It's an additional, new tax burden. And it actually HELPS "big insurance."

For me, a real public option is one where people can enroll in Medicare or something similar. No middle man, no insurance companies, etc.

As for the new customers, the solution to that would be to control the fees insurance companies can charge or the profit they can make. If controls are put into place, then insurers won't make a killing out of this.

More government control.

Always the pat answer.

And it always has unintended consequences like the one I am describing here.

Not quite. I am an advocate for a governmental run program, which I see as different from government control.

If you don't want to enroll in the government program, I don't want to force you. And I rather not get into the business of regulating more the insurance companies. I would rather see a governmental alternative, and if people want to pay more and more to insurance companies, it would be their problem.

 

[Ravi]

Medicare hasn't eliminated private health insurance, there are plenty of medigap policies.

So MM fears that the private companies won't be able to compete on the one hand and that private companies will profit on the other.

His solution is to leave 47 million people unable to afford health insurance.

Evol, indeed.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

For me, a real public option is one where people can enroll in Medicare or something similar. No middle man, no insurance companies, etc.

As for the new customers, the solution to that would be to control the fees insurance companies can charge or the profit they can make. If controls are put into place, then insurers won't make a killing out of this.

More government control.

Always the pat answer.

And it always has unintended consequences like the one I am describing here.

Not quite. I am an advocate for a governmental run program, which I see as different from government control.

If you don't want to enroll in the government program, I don't want to force you. And I rather not get into the business of regulating more the insurance companies. I would rather see a governmental alternative, and if people want to pay more and more to insurance companies, it would be their problem.

Yeah, we just need more government control over corporate profits and salaries, and over the products and services they provide.

And thusly, much more control over our lives.

That's the pat ticket.

If people go with a private plan, it'll likely be competitive with a government plan, but probably with fewer strings. Thus, you get 20 million new customers.

Quite a nice handout from Uncle Sam to the private insurers.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Medicare hasn't eliminated private health insurance, there are plenty of medigap policies.

So MM fears that the private companies won't be able to compete on the one hand and that private companies will profit on the other.

His solution is to leave 47 million people unable to afford health insurance.

Evol, indeed.

Again you lie about my position.

The private companies WILL be able to compete. I've asserted that over and over. It's the very REASON they stand to get 20 million new customers out of this.

And I have never said 47 million should be unable to afford insurance. And I have not yet opined on a solution.

You have nothing, so you erect straw men to knock down, hoping people will not notice it.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

His solution is

My solution to THIS unintended consequence is, to NOT have it be required to buy health insurance! Keep it optional, keep it a choice instead of a mandate. No matter what else they do, public option or not.

This way, we are not feeding potentially 20 million NEW customers to the big insurance companies, and they will STILL have to compete with the government plan on their existing customers.

AND the government option will be affordable to the 47 million who cannot afford health insurance now.

It addresses the problem without making the current one bigger.

 

[Care4all]

The demagoguery, exaggeration, embellishing and in some cases outright lying, and also fair criticism about health insurance providers continues unabated. And yet, you seldom if ever see any of them attempting to defend themselves.

Well hell, I wouldn't either if I saw say, 20 million new customers coming down the pike!

Huh?

If there's 47 million uninsured, and HC insurance is gonna be mandatory, fully 45% of those will be getting a private policy, right? Look at all those new customers for the evol insurance companies! Look at the BILLIONS of new revenue we're talking! Even if it's just 20%, it's quite a new, untapped billion dollar market they're getting courtesy of the idiots in Washington! Big bucks. The rich get richer and the poor get hosed again!

They can't defend themselves because they are too busy licking their chops! The smart money for investing? Health insurance providers folks. They are gonna clean up.

The law of unintended consequences? Or, part of the plan all along?

Discuss.

Isn't this exactly why the public option was pushed? So that we were not providing a gambit for the insurance companies to charge what they want without competition?

The insuran.......excuse me...republicans don't want insurance companies to compete, just like they did not want big pharma to compete.

I happen to agree with you and the Democrats on this one....the Public Option will help stop this bill from being a gift horse to the Health Insurance industry...a mandate to buy insurance GUARANTEES these insurance companies multi millions in additional customers, without having to compete by lowering their prices to capture more of the market.

a public option and another coop option should be made available on the exchange for all to choose from in addition to the private insurance companies.

I agree the Republicans and some Democrats such as Baucus, have their pockets lined with gold, by the Health Insurance Lobby and this is the only, absolute only reason why they really do not want to see one...but of course, under the guise that a public option will lead to a government run universal plan....that's all a ruse to keep any competition out of the picture so insurance companies can lap up the new customers just handed to them...

Boy, how i would have loved the gvt doing that for me, when i worked for an unrelated corporation!!!!

WAKE UP!

listen to the words or read them...forget the song was meant to be about war for a second...


there's something happinin here
what it is aint exactly clear
theres a man with a gun over there
tellin me i got to beware

i think it's time we stop, children
what's that sound
everybody look what's goin down

there's battle lines being drawn
nobody's right if everybody's wrong
young people speakin there minds
getting so much resistance far behind

it's time we stop,
hey what's that sound
everybody look what's goin down

what a field day for the heat
a thousand people in the street
singin songs that they carry inside
mostly say hurray for our side

it's time we stop,
hey what's that sound
everybody look what's goin down

there are lawyer strikes deep
into your life it will creep
it starts when your always afraid
step out of line the man come and take you away

you better stop
hey what's that sound
everybody look what's going down

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypP2bgHWErY]YouTube - Buffalo Springfield Stop, Children, What's That Sound[/ame]


Something is definately going down here and it ain't pretty in my book...

 

[Midnight Marauder]

The demagoguery, exaggeration, embellishing and in some cases outright lying, and also fair criticism about health insurance providers continues unabated. And yet, you seldom if ever see any of them attempting to defend themselves.

Well hell, I wouldn't either if I saw say, 20 million new customers coming down the pike!

Huh?

If there's 47 million uninsured, and HC insurance is gonna be mandatory, fully 45% of those will be getting a private policy, right? Look at all those new customers for the evol insurance companies! Look at the BILLIONS of new revenue we're talking! Even if it's just 20%, it's quite a new, untapped billion dollar market they're getting courtesy of the idiots in Washington! Big bucks. The rich get richer and the poor get hosed again!

They can't defend themselves because they are too busy licking their chops! The smart money for investing? Health insurance providers folks. They are gonna clean up.

The law of unintended consequences? Or, part of the plan all along?

Discuss.

Isn't this exactly why the public option was pushed? So that we were not providing a gambit for the insurance companies to charge what they want without competition?

The insuran.......excuse me...republicans don't want insurance companies to compete, just like they did not want big pharma to compete.

I happen to agree with you and the Democrats on this one....the Public Option will help stop this bill from being a gift horse to the Health Insurance industry...

Huh? You mean you disagree, correct? The bill is going to be a gift horse for Big Insurance whether there's a "public option" or "co-ops" in it or not. The MANDATE is what creates the new 20 million customer base.

a mandate to buy insurance GUARANTEES these insurance companies multi millions in additional customers, without having to compete by lowering their prices to capture more of the market.

WITH the "public option" as I said earlier, there's still this guaranteed new customer base. WITH the public option, the insurers will have to lower rates to compete. What you fail to see is, business can lower rates and still make massive profits when you're adding tens of millions of new customers.

The "public option" might be a pricing point factor, but it's not going to stop Big Insurance from getting its half of that new market being created by the mandate.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Kucinich is the only Dem who gets it. He voted NO for the very reason I talk about here -- the whole thing is a gift to private insurers, who stand to collect 70 billion in new revenue, by his estimate.

The only question is, is this an unintended consequence, or part of the plan all along?

Read up:

Why This Democrat Voted 'No' on the Health Care Bill - Greta Van Susteren | On The Record With Greta - FOXNews.com

 

[KittenKoder]

Kucinich is the only Dem who gets it. He voted NO for the very reason I talk about here -- the whole thing is a gift to private insurers, who stand to collect 70 billion in new revenue, by his estimate.

The only question is, is this an unintended consequence, or part of the plan all along?

Read up:

Why This Democrat Voted 'No' on the Health Care Bill - Greta Van Susteren | On The Record With Greta - FOXNews.com

I believe it was part of the plan all along. As I have said, politicians pass policies which will earn them profits in some way ... most times they own stock or even entire companies that benefit from these policies. Follow the money to the top, people don't do that enough, they stop one rung higher than themselves.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Kucinich is the only Dem who gets it. He voted NO for the very reason I talk about here -- the whole thing is a gift to private insurers, who stand to collect 70 billion in new revenue, by his estimate.

The only question is, is this an unintended consequence, or part of the plan all along?

Read up:

Why This Democrat Voted 'No' on the Health Care Bill - Greta Van Susteren | On The Record With Greta - FOXNews.com

I believe it was part of the plan all along. As I have said, politicians pass policies which will earn them profits in some way ... most times they own stock or even entire companies that benefit from these policies. Follow the money to the top, people don't do that enough, they stop one rung higher than themselves.

I just finished re-reading this whole thread again and must admit I am quite stunned at how prophetic it is. However I never guessed one of the most liberal Dems would actually get it, and actually vote NO because of the big largess for Big Insurance.

 

[KittenKoder]

Kucinich is the only Dem who gets it. He voted NO for the very reason I talk about here -- the whole thing is a gift to private insurers, who stand to collect 70 billion in new revenue, by his estimate.

The only question is, is this an unintended consequence, or part of the plan all along?

Read up:

Why This Democrat Voted 'No' on the Health Care Bill - Greta Van Susteren | On The Record With Greta - FOXNews.com

I believe it was part of the plan all along. As I have said, politicians pass policies which will earn them profits in some way ... most times they own stock or even entire companies that benefit from these policies. Follow the money to the top, people don't do that enough, they stop one rung higher than themselves.

I just finished re-reading this whole thread again and must admit I am quite stunned at how prophetic it is. However I never guessed one of the most liberal Dems would actually get it, and actually vote NO because of the big largess for Big Insurance.

A true liberal will always surprise you, we aren't against corporations making money with good products, we are against corporations abusing laws and regulations to boost their profits.

 

[Care4all]

The demagoguery, exaggeration, embellishing and in some cases outright lying, and also fair criticism about health insurance providers continues unabated. And yet, you seldom if ever see any of them attempting to defend themselves.

Well hell, I wouldn't either if I saw say, 20 million new customers coming down the pike!

Huh?

If there's 47 million uninsured, and HC insurance is gonna be mandatory, fully 45% of those will be getting a private policy, right? Look at all those new customers for the evol insurance companies! Look at the BILLIONS of new revenue we're talking! Even if it's just 20%, it's quite a new, untapped billion dollar market they're getting courtesy of the idiots in Washington! Big bucks. The rich get richer and the poor get hosed again!

They can't defend themselves because they are too busy licking their chops! The smart money for investing? Health insurance providers folks. They are gonna clean up.

The law of unintended consequences? Or, part of the plan all along?

Discuss.

Isn't this exactly why the public option was pushed? So that we were not providing a gambit for the insurance companies to charge what they want without competition?

Are you daft? You think there's NO competition in the HC insurance industry?

You're twisting INTENDED consequences with unintended ones. If you're a insurance provider, aren't you really licking your chops right now, anticipating 20 million new customers possible, even if it is at lower rates somehow?

Think. "Big Insurance" is going to get a massive windfall from all of this, get BIGGER and stronger, and probably won't worry too much about rates!

i'm not nuts, and I KNOW there is not true competition within the health insurance industry when most all states have only one or 2 insurance companies providing much more than 50% of the issued policies.

in my state, 2 insurers have 88% of the policies written....north dakota has ONE Insurer for 90% of their population, alabama....2 insurers for 80% of their population....

Anything over 30% for 1 insurer is considered by our federal gvt with other industries, a monopoly, or an UNHEALTHY economic situation for the consumer...

AND YES, i agree that it is HANDING this gift horse to the insurance industry....thus my support of the public option, so it is not a guarantee to the private insurers to get these customers without competing.

but better yet, don't make the insurance mandatory....

 

[KittenKoder]

Isn't this exactly why the public option was pushed? So that we were not providing a gambit for the insurance companies to charge what they want without competition?

Are you daft? You think there's NO competition in the HC insurance industry?

You're twisting INTENDED consequences with unintended ones. If you're a insurance provider, aren't you really licking your chops right now, anticipating 20 million new customers possible, even if it is at lower rates somehow?

Think. "Big Insurance" is going to get a massive windfall from all of this, get BIGGER and stronger, and probably won't worry too much about rates!

i'm not nuts, and I KNOW there is not true competition within the health insurance industry when most all states have only one or 2 insurance companies providing much more than 50% of the issued policies.

in my state, 2 insurers have 88% of the policies written....north dakota has ONE Insurer for 90% of their population, alabama....2 insurers for 80% of their population....

Anything over 30% for 1 insurer is considered by our federal gvt with other industries, a monopoly, or an UNHEALTHY economic situation for the consumer...

AND YES, i agree that it is HANDING this gift horse to the insurance industry....thus my support of the public option, so it is not a guarantee to the private insurers to get these customers without competing.

but better yet, don't make the insurance mandatory....

Actually, that is accurate, there is no competition right now, thus why we see price gouging.

How is this possible? Because of (wait for it) ... government regulations.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

but better yet, don't make the insurance mandatory....

That's what I'm tryna tell you.

No idea really, how a discussion of the "public option" got into this thread. It's not about that, it's about the mandate.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

I believe it was part of the plan all along. As I have said, politicians pass policies which will earn them profits in some way ... most times they own stock or even entire companies that benefit from these policies. Follow the money to the top, people don't do that enough, they stop one rung higher than themselves.

I just finished re-reading this whole thread again and must admit I am quite stunned at how prophetic it is. However I never guessed one of the most liberal Dems would actually get it, and actually vote NO because of the big largess for Big Insurance.

A true liberal will always surprise you, we aren't against corporations making money with good products, we are against corporations abusing laws and regulations to boost their profits.

Kucinich isn't a Liberal, he's a far-left loon but at least he does get this, albeit for all the wrong reasons.

 

[KittenKoder]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLQ9xNgwyIg]YouTube - Hampton the Hamster "Thank God I'm a Country Boy"[/ame]


Yes ...







... I'm bored ... and very ... very ... very hyper ....
JAVA!

 

[Claudette]

So right Oreo. Couldn't agree more.

Plenty of fraud in Medicare and Medicaid also and those are Govt run programs. I wonder how much fraud and waste will be in the new and improved entitlement program that Pelosi and her possee passed??