Embattled evol health insurance providers mum on criticism? There's a reason...

[Midnight Marauder]

Really! I have more of a problem with that than the public option.

But the mandate hasn't been a deal killer, or even a heated topic. It's almost like the public option is a decoy, something to get us all worked up and focused on while they slip the mandate, the jail time, the extra tax if you don't get insurance, the wellness police, and a ton of other shit through.

 

[Thinman]

I'm just trying to wrap my mind around who it actually helps to MANDATE health insurance, and all I can come up with is, the insurance companies who stand to gain millions of new customers and billions in new revenue.

Thus far, no one's come up with any other answer.

Most folks only look at the stated goals, I am looking at the (possibly) unintended consequences.

With so many more purchasers of health care, there will be a requirement for more doctors, nurses, clinics, hospitals, medical equipment and supplies. I'm sure there are lobbyists for medical equipment companies. No tort reform yet, so lawyers will also see more opportunity with the coverage on so many more people.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

I'm just trying to wrap my mind around who it actually helps to MANDATE health insurance, and all I can come up with is, the insurance companies who stand to gain millions of new customers and billions in new revenue.

Thus far, no one's come up with any other answer.

Most folks only look at the stated goals, I am looking at the (possibly) unintended consequences.

With so many more purchasers of health care, there will be a requirement for more doctors, nurses, clinics, hospitals, medical equipment and supplies. I'm sure there are lobbyists for medical equipment companies. No tort reform yet, so lawyers will also see more opportunity with the coverage on so many more people.

What we will see is a system that is already way overcrowded and short handed, get much more that way.

And Big Insurance cleaning up with millions of new customers and billions of new revenue.

 

[Barb]

Do you even know what it is?

Is it the ability to buy health care insurance from the gubmint, at hopefully, lower rates and better coverage? Thus "competing" with private insurers?

Or is it just, free medical?

Either way, if any significant percentage of the 47 million who they claim are uninsured go private, the law is mandating a huge largess for the very private insurers they're demonizing. Irony?

"Big Insurance is bad, is evil and isn't fair. So we're going to punish them by making it the law of the land that you are REQUIRED to buy health insurance" just sort of rings hollow with me, for some reason.

Makes you wonder who's REALLY "in bed with big insurance."

Of course I know what the public option is.
Low overhead costs, no need to advertise, no gross CEO salaries

Are you nuts? Of COURSE there will be advertising, there WILL be big salaries. Name me one govt program that hasn't had these.

Public Option will provide a bare bones policy that will force the private sector to contain costs. It is the insurance companies worst nightmare. That's why they have spent billions to defeat it.

Could you possibly be more deluded? Have you forgotten already that they are making health insurance mandatory, therefore "Big Insurance" stands to clean up? Where exactly have they "spent billions" to defeat this? And you really think a "monster" like Big Insurance can't compete with Uncle Sam?

Its also why the republicans will do anything to defeat it

I see now my earlier question is answered: You CAN get more delusional. Newsflash for you -- the Dems don't need ANY republican votes OR support to get this passed, or to get anything else they want, passed. The republicans CANNOT defeat anything! They are POWERLESS to stop the democrats no matter what it is!

Blaming Boooosh and the republicans is all you have in your shtick. Because you are a mindless puppet. I can see now how beyond stupid and partisan you are.

One last time:

If I were a friend of big insurance, I might make insurance MANDATORY in order to line my friends' pockets.

The Dems are making health insurance mandatory, and it's going to line the pockets of Big Insurance.

And you're okay with that, so long as you think your side "wins."

Right?

Not so fast there. Most liberals want and are pushing the public option, hell 77% of Americans want the public option. Of course we aren't in favor of any bill that does not include the public option. Meanwhile, back at the truth, WHAT party, in collusion with what is known as the "blue dog" democrats, have screamed and protested (with Hitler signs, misinformation, and GUNS, complete with references to blood watering the "tree of liberty") have agitated AGAINST the public option, which aside from a couple of worthy regulations is the ONLY thing that put any TEETH into the proposed legislation?

 

[Varth Dader]

...Are you nuts? Of COURSE there will be advertising, there WILL be big salaries. Name me one govt program that hasn't had these....

Actually what we can't name is the government position related to health care earning a salary of 8 digits...

Ron Williams, Aetna, $24,300,112
H. Edward Hanway, CIGNA, $12,236,740
Angela Braly, WellPoint, $9,844,212

http://www.washclean.org/Library/HC-CEOpay08.pdf

I think you are not thinking big enough!

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Not so fast there. Most liberals want and are pushing the public option, hell 77% of Americans want the public option. ~blah blah blah~

Again you deflect with partisan nonsense. "Big Insurance" is only going to get BIGGER and the rich are going to get RICHER due to the government MANDATING that everyone buy health insurance. What part of that has you confused?

One last time, the topic please:

If I were a friend of big insurance, I might make insurance MANDATORY in order to line my friends' pockets.

The Dems are making health insurance mandatory, and that is going to line the pockets of Big Insurance.

And you're okay with that, so long as you think your side "wins."

Is it the law of unintended consequences? Or something more sinister?

Most folks only look at the stated goals, I am looking at the (possibly) unintended consequences.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

...Are you nuts? Of COURSE there will be advertising, there WILL be big salaries. Name me one govt program that hasn't had these....

Actually what we can't name is the government position related to health care earning a salary of 8 digits...

Ron Williams, Aetna, $24,300,112
H. Edward Hanway, CIGNA, $12,236,740
Angela Braly, WellPoint, $9,844,212

http://www.washclean.org/Library/HC-CEOpay08.pdf

I think you are not thinking big enough!

We can't name it YET.

But we can reasonably postulate that this mandate is going to make the fat cats fatter, on the backs of the poor and middle class.

 

[Oddball]

The demagoguery, exaggeration, embellishing and in some cases outright lying, and also fair criticism about health insurance providers continues unabated. And yet, you seldom if ever see any of them attempting to defend themselves.

Well hell, I wouldn't either if I saw say, 20 million new customers coming down the pike!

Huh?

If there's 47 million uninsured, and HC insurance is gonna be mandatory, fully 45% of those will be getting a private policy, right? Look at all those new customers for the evol insurance companies! Look at the BILLIONS of new revenue we're talking! Even if it's just 20%, it's quite a new, untapped billion dollar market they're getting courtesy of the idiots in Washington! Big bucks. The rich get richer and the poor get hosed again!

They can't defend themselves because they are too busy licking their chops! The smart money for investing? Health insurance providers folks. They are gonna clean up.

The law of unintended consequences? Or, part of the plan all along?

Discuss.

Part of the plan all along.

Like mandated auto liability insurance, it forces the high risks to buy coverage and pay the exorbitant rates.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

The demagoguery, exaggeration, embellishing and in some cases outright lying, and also fair criticism about health insurance providers continues unabated. And yet, you seldom if ever see any of them attempting to defend themselves.

Well hell, I wouldn't either if I saw say, 20 million new customers coming down the pike!

Huh?

If there's 47 million uninsured, and HC insurance is gonna be mandatory, fully 45% of those will be getting a private policy, right? Look at all those new customers for the evol insurance companies! Look at the BILLIONS of new revenue we're talking! Even if it's just 20%, it's quite a new, untapped billion dollar market they're getting courtesy of the idiots in Washington! Big bucks. The rich get richer and the poor get hosed again!

They can't defend themselves because they are too busy licking their chops! The smart money for investing? Health insurance providers folks. They are gonna clean up.

The law of unintended consequences? Or, part of the plan all along?

Discuss.

Part of the plan all along.

Like mandated auto liability insurance, it forces the high risks to buy coverage and pay the exorbitant rates.

But this time it's under the guise of "government competition" that's allegedly going to bring down rates, in order to "compete" with the government company.

What people are missing is, these evol private companies can well afford to bring down rates if you're getting 20 freaking million new customers due to the government mandating the coverage, and still get filthier richer in the process. And that is what will happen.

 

[Oddball]

But will those supposed new customers go to the insurance companies, or just onto the dole?

 

[Thinman]

The demagoguery, exaggeration, embellishing and in some cases outright lying, and also fair criticism about health insurance providers continues unabated. And yet, you seldom if ever see any of them attempting to defend themselves.

Well hell, I wouldn't either if I saw say, 20 million new customers coming down the pike!

Huh?

If there's 47 million uninsured, and HC insurance is gonna be mandatory, fully 45% of those will be getting a private policy, right? Look at all those new customers for the evol insurance companies! Look at the BILLIONS of new revenue we're talking! Even if it's just 20%, it's quite a new, untapped billion dollar market they're getting courtesy of the idiots in Washington! Big bucks. The rich get richer and the poor get hosed again!

They can't defend themselves because they are too busy licking their chops! The smart money for investing? Health insurance providers folks. They are gonna clean up.

The law of unintended consequences? Or, part of the plan all along?

Discuss.

Part of the plan all along.

Like mandated auto liability insurance, it forces the high risks to buy coverage and pay the exorbitant rates.

But this time it's under the guise of "government competition" that's allegedly going to bring down rates, in order to "compete" with the government company.

What people are missing is, these evol private companies can well afford to bring down rates if you're getting 20 freaking million new customers due to the government mandating the coverage, and still get filthier richer in the process. And that is what will happen.

And of those 20 million, most will be young people who feel they don,t need health insurance at this time in their lives. Also, it is probably the time in their lives when they can least afford it. I can't imagine having to pay for health care insurance when I was going to college.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

But will those supposed new customers go to the insurance companies, or just onto the dole?

I allowed for only 45% of the claimed 47 million uninsured, to actually get private insurance which I think is somewhat a reasonable projection.

The thing is, the "government option" will be subsidized anyway, so whatever savings there is over private plans is also on the backs of the taxpayer. Making those who choose the public option, a burden.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Part of the plan all along.

Like mandated auto liability insurance, it forces the high risks to buy coverage and pay the exorbitant rates.

But this time it's under the guise of "government competition" that's allegedly going to bring down rates, in order to "compete" with the government company.

What people are missing is, these evol private companies can well afford to bring down rates if you're getting 20 freaking million new customers due to the government mandating the coverage, and still get filthier richer in the process. And that is what will happen.

And of those 20 million, most will be young people who feel they don,t need health insurance at this time in their lives. Also, it is probably the time in their lives when they can least afford it. I can't imagine having to pay for health care insurance when I was going to college.

Unintended consequences? Which come mostly from half-baked plans?

 

[Varth Dader]

We can't name it YET.

But we can reasonably postulate that this mandate is going to make the fat cats fatter, on the backs of the poor and middle class.

Some people could get rich through the government (for example, military contractors), but I'm pretty sure no governmental official will be paid as much.

And if they are, we have control over our own officials to change them. As for the CEO of AETNA or Cigna, it's a bit harder...

I agree with you on one point though. Simply creating a mandate with no cost containment is not logical. Which is why progressives support a real public option (i.e. no middle man like an insurance company padding its profit knowing that the government will pay for it).

 

[Midnight Marauder]

We can't name it YET.

But we can reasonably postulate that this mandate is going to make the fat cats fatter, on the backs of the poor and middle class.

Some people could get rich through the government (for example, military contractors), but I'm pretty sure no governmental official will be paid as much.

And if they are, we have control over our own officials to change them. As for the CEO of AETNA or Cigna, it's a bit harder...

I agree with you on one point though. Simply creating a mandate with no cost containment is not logical. Which is why progressives support a real public option (i.e. no middle man like an insurance company padding its profit knowing that the government will pay for it).

The "real public option" won't curtail people getting their insurance from these very same private companies who are being demonized.

Again, it's this simple: 47 million uninsured, being required by law to get insurance. If only 45% of them get private insurance, it's 21 million NEW customers for Evol Insurance. There's no way around that. 21 million new customers they didn't have before, HELPS them, doesn't hurt them.

Even if it's just 20% that get a private health plan, that's 9.4 million new customers.

Buy stock in the top insurers, they're gonna make a killing and you'll get rich on it too.

Additionally, the "public option" is subsidized on the backs of the poor and middle class. It's an additional, new tax burden. And it actually HELPS "big insurance."

 

[Varth Dader]

We can't name it YET.

But we can reasonably postulate that this mandate is going to make the fat cats fatter, on the backs of the poor and middle class.

Some people could get rich through the government (for example, military contractors), but I'm pretty sure no governmental official will be paid as much.

And if they are, we have control over our own officials to change them. As for the CEO of AETNA or Cigna, it's a bit harder...

I agree with you on one point though. Simply creating a mandate with no cost containment is not logical. Which is why progressives support a real public option (i.e. no middle man like an insurance company padding its profit knowing that the government will pay for it).

The "real public option" won't curtail people getting their insurance from these very same private companies who are being demonized.

Again, it's this simple: 47 million uninsured, being required by law to get insurance. If only 45% of them get private insurance, it's 21 million NEW customers for Evol Insurance. There's no way around that. 21 million new customers they didn't have before, HELPS them, doesn't hurt them.

Even if it's just 20% that get a private health plan, that's 9.4 million new customers.

Buy stock in the top insurers, they're gonna make a killing and you'll get rich on it too.

Additionally, the "public option" is subsidized on the backs of the poor and middle class. It's an additional, new tax burden. And it actually HELPS "big insurance."

For me, a real public option is one where people can enroll in Medicare or something similar. No middle man, no insurance companies, etc.

As for the new customers, the solution to that would be to control the fees insurance companies can charge or the profit they can make. If controls are put into place, then insurers won't make a killing out of this.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Some people could get rich through the government (for example, military contractors), but I'm pretty sure no governmental official will be paid as much.

And if they are, we have control over our own officials to change them. As for the CEO of AETNA or Cigna, it's a bit harder...

I agree with you on one point though. Simply creating a mandate with no cost containment is not logical. Which is why progressives support a real public option (i.e. no middle man like an insurance company padding its profit knowing that the government will pay for it).

The "real public option" won't curtail people getting their insurance from these very same private companies who are being demonized.

Again, it's this simple: 47 million uninsured, being required by law to get insurance. If only 45% of them get private insurance, it's 21 million NEW customers for Evol Insurance. There's no way around that. 21 million new customers they didn't have before, HELPS them, doesn't hurt them.

Even if it's just 20% that get a private health plan, that's 9.4 million new customers.

Buy stock in the top insurers, they're gonna make a killing and you'll get rich on it too.

Additionally, the "public option" is subsidized on the backs of the poor and middle class. It's an additional, new tax burden. And it actually HELPS "big insurance."

For me, a real public option is one where people can enroll in Medicare or something similar. No middle man, no insurance companies, etc.

As for the new customers, the solution to that would be to control the fees insurance companies can charge or the profit they can make. If controls are put into place, then insurers won't make a killing out of this.

More government control.

Always the pat answer.

And it always has unintended consequences like the one I am describing here.

 

[Ravi]

wtf are "evol" insurance providers?

 

[Midnight Marauder]

wtf are "evol" insurance providers?

The ones being demagogued, lied about and embellished upon constantly. The "evol" ones who had to be made a convenient devil when this thing first started going south.

 

[Ravi]

Last time I checked, evol wasn't a word.

No matter, this sounds like another of your hysterical conspiracy theorist threads.