Electric Cars: Dead Batteries: Hypothetical Hype

Shrimpbox

Gold Member
Dec 4, 2013
3,952
1,112
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Carrabelle, fl. 60 miles s of tallahassee
Ok, this all happened in a parking lot in Tallahassee fl. By a chevy volt and two charging stations both of which had a sign on them that said out of order. I was slipping in to a Whole Foods store(around here we say whole wallet cause their prices take all your money) when I passed a chevy volt hooked up to one of two charging stations. I went in and did my shopping and on the way out the owner of the volt was there and we struck up a conversation. It went something like this, he was a very salty old curmudgeon so I will edit out the most colorful language and he claimed he was a computer guy for the store.

Me: hey man, how can you hook up to the car when both machines are out of order?
Him: oh this is such a pile of crap, this machine works and the other one doesn't.
Me: how do you like your volt?
Him: I like it a lot. I have driven this thing 5000 miles and only used 6 gallons of gas. My family all worked for gm, I wanted an American made car and I got the discount for employees(and the subsidy too I am assuming). Did you know that even in American made cars at least 30% is still made overseas, mostly Chinese electrical parts.
Me: I thought the chevy volts were all electric, I didn't know they had a gas motor. So this thing is really a hybrid?
Him: we'll sort of. The motor charges the batteries and is not hooked directly to the drive train. This car has a range of 63 miles. I live in quincy(about 30 miles away) so when I come here to work I plug in and am charged up for the ride home.
Me: well tell me something, is this the wave of the future or what?
Him: well you know that Britain just passed a law outlawing all gas and diesel vehicles by 2050.
Me: well I don't agree with that, I think the market should determine what works, but tell me, are these things going to be a significant part of the auto world in 20 years?
Him: you know there are only ten charging stations in all of Tallahassee. Ford, gm, Chrysler, Toyota, Nissan , Honda, all the big car companies sell electric vehicles. But every car has a different plug for charging. A tesla charger will not fit any other vehicle. And think about this, Florida just redid all its rest stops and didn't put in one charging station. That should tell you something.
Me: so is it just a question of infrastructure?
Him: well I don't know about that but let me tell you this. My electric bill at home went up so much the electric company put me in a higher bracket with a Higher rate. So by using more electricity I was punished twice. I went to see them to tell them I was driving an electric car so they should charge me less for using more and they just flipped me off( as a side note tallahassee utility won the award for the best utility in the country). It would have been cheaper in the long run to buy a gas vehicle.


Man on the street testimony about electric vehicles. I know Mathew and old rocks won't find this credible but reality is a bitch. My granddaughter is married to a tire mechanic who says his lifts at the shop can't even lift up a tesla to change the tires it is so heavy. There was some other defect he mentioned that I have forgotten about, but the point is that electric cars are not the panacea liberals would have us believe.
 
Ok, this all happened in a parking lot in Tallahassee fl. By a chevy volt and two charging stations both of which had a sign on them that said out of order. I was slipping in to a Whole Foods store(around here we say whole wallet cause their prices take all your money) when I passed a chevy volt hooked up to one of two charging stations. I went in and did my shopping and on the way out the owner of the volt was there and we struck up a conversation. It went something like this, he was a very salty old curmudgeon so I will edit out the most colorful language and he claimed he was a computer guy for the store.

Me: hey man, how can you hook up to the car when both machines are out of order?
Him: oh this is such a pile of crap, this machine works and the other one doesn't.
Me: how do you like your volt?
Him: I like it a lot. I have driven this thing 5000 miles and only used 6 gallons of gas. My family all worked for gm, I wanted an American made car and I got the discount for employees(and the subsidy too I am assuming). Did you know that even in American made cars at least 30% is still made overseas, mostly Chinese electrical parts.
Me: I thought the chevy volts were all electric, I didn't know they had a gas motor. So this thing is really a hybrid?
Him: we'll sort of. The motor charges the batteries and is not hooked directly to the drive train. This car has a range of 63 miles. I live in quincy(about 30 miles away) so when I come here to work I plug in and am charged up for the ride home.
Me: well tell me something, is this the wave of the future or what?
Him: well you know that Britain just passed a law outlawing all gas and diesel vehicles by 2050.
Me: well I don't agree with that, I think the market should determine what works, but tell me, are these things going to be a significant part of the auto world in 20 years?
Him: you know there are only ten charging stations in all of Tallahassee. Ford, gm, Chrysler, Toyota, Nissan , Honda, all the big car companies sell electric vehicles. But every car has a different plug for charging. A tesla charger will not fit any other vehicle. And think about this, Florida just redid all its rest stops and didn't put in one charging station. That should tell you something.
Me: so is it just a question of infrastructure?
Him: well I don't know about that but let me tell you this. My electric bill at home went up so much the electric company put me in a higher bracket with a Higher rate. So by using more electricity I was punished twice. I went to see them to tell them I was driving an electric car so they should charge me less for using more and they just flipped me off( as a side note tallahassee utility won the award for the best utility in the country). It would have been cheaper in the long run to buy a gas vehicle.


Man on the street testimony about electric vehicles. I know Mathew and old rocks won't find this credible but reality is a bitch. My granddaughter is married to a tire mechanic who says his lifts at the shop can't even lift up a tesla to change the tires it is so heavy. There was some other defect he mentioned that I have forgotten about, but the point is that electric cars are not the panacea liberals would have us believe.
I was just reading today those cars emit a emi inside the cabin and may not be good for folks with pace makers.
 
I see plenty of Teslas driving around Atlanta. The Volt & LEAF are common. If you think they will disappear you are mistaken. The charging stations will come. Right now most EV drivers don't take them on vacations.
 
They won't disappear. Too many rich and outwardly environmental conscious wannabes will buy these vehicles to prove their bona fides. My point all along is can these vehicles create significant market share without govt subsides.

Enough of that. You got tickets to fsu/ala winter?
 
After 5 years the batteries on a Tesla will have worn out and need replacing.

Estimated cost is somewhere between $12,000 and $20,000. (no one knows, not even the Tesla sales rep I asked)

Who would be stupid enough to buy a used Tesla with that kind of repair bill looming in the background? ..... :dunno:
 
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They won't disappear. Too many rich and outwardly environmental conscious wannabes will buy these vehicles to prove their bona fides. My point all along is can these vehicles create significant market share without govt subsides.

Enough of that. You got tickets to fsu/ala winter?

No, I'm not looking for tickets. I'll watch it on tv. Prices for this game are nuts.
 
After 5 years the batteries on a Tesla will have worn out and need replacing.

Estimated cost is somewhere between $12,000 and $20,000. (no one knows, not even the Tesla sales rep I asked)

Who would be stupid enough to buy a used Tesla with that kind of repair bill looming in the background? ..... :dunno:

5 years? No one asked a Tesla rep what it would cost to replace the batteries after 5 years. They would have told you the batteries are under full warranty for 8 years. I would not cost anything if they needed to be replaced.

And when the Gigawatt Factory is completed, the prices on batteries will drop significantly.

Also, the likelihood of all of the batteries dying at once (worn out & failing) is somewhere between slim & none.
 
upload_2017-8-7_21-49-14.jpeg


How much hazardous waste is produced in the manufacturing of the battery and disposal once the batteries life is finished?

*****SMILE*****



:)
 
5 years? No one asked a Tesla rep what it would cost to replace the batteries after 5 years. They would have told you the batteries are under full warranty for 8 years. I would not cost anything if they needed to be replaced.
And when the Gigawatt Factory is completed, the prices on batteries will drop significantly.
Also, the likelihood of all of the batteries dying at once (worn out & failing) is somewhere between slim & none.
Yes, I ask the salesman at the Tesla dealership. I thought he said 5 years, but I agree that it's 8 years.

But when I asked him the replacement cost, he had no answer. ...... :cool:
 
Hybrids make more sense. I am not sure our electrical grids are up to 260M cars being charged at the same time overnight when cellphone users won't even bother to unplug their charger when not in use
 
Hybrids make more sense. I am not sure our electrical grids are up to 260M cars being charged at the same time overnight when cellphone users won't even bother to unplug their charger when not in use

The same was said years ago when they realized that one phone per household or business was not going to work. Are you old enough to remember the jump in the number of phone lines people had? That infrastructure was expanded to meet the demand. So will the electrical grid. It is being expanded and upgraded now.
 
upload_2017-8-7_23-50-4.jpeg


It was my question but thanks for playing since it's now obvious that you have no clue...

Generally there's a lot of toxic waste from batteries and a very high cost to recycling what they can recycle. With what's left being extremely toxic. Of course we could go back to using the lead in the car battery to make water pipes for the inner city urban areas and the sulfuric acid to clean the downtown areas. While other batteries contain other toxic materials that can be even more difficult to recycle. It's the nature of the beast.

Where as the CO2 from internal combustion engines is completely recyclable with enough green matter.

Again thanks for playing...

*****CHUCKLE*****



:)

NOTE: I've worked in the electronics field for nearly forty years. All batteries have lots of toxic wastes in production, recycling, and disposing. The bigger the battery the more toxic material.
 
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Ok, this all happened in a parking lot in Tallahassee fl. By a chevy volt and two charging stations both of which had a sign on them that said out of order. I was slipping in to a Whole Foods store(around here we say whole wallet cause their prices take all your money) when I passed a chevy volt hooked up to one of two charging stations. I went in and did my shopping and on the way out the owner of the volt was there and we struck up a conversation. It went something like this, he was a very salty old curmudgeon so I will edit out the most colorful language and he claimed he was a computer guy for the store.

Me: hey man, how can you hook up to the car when both machines are out of order?
Him: oh this is such a pile of crap, this machine works and the other one doesn't.
Me: how do you like your volt?
Him: I like it a lot. I have driven this thing 5000 miles and only used 6 gallons of gas. My family all worked for gm, I wanted an American made car and I got the discount for employees(and the subsidy too I am assuming). Did you know that even in American made cars at least 30% is still made overseas, mostly Chinese electrical parts.
Me: I thought the chevy volts were all electric, I didn't know they had a gas motor. So this thing is really a hybrid?
Him: we'll sort of. The motor charges the batteries and is not hooked directly to the drive train. This car has a range of 63 miles. I live in quincy(about 30 miles away) so when I come here to work I plug in and am charged up for the ride home.
Me: well tell me something, is this the wave of the future or what?
Him: well you know that Britain just passed a law outlawing all gas and diesel vehicles by 2050.
Me: well I don't agree with that, I think the market should determine what works, but tell me, are these things going to be a significant part of the auto world in 20 years?
Him: you know there are only ten charging stations in all of Tallahassee. Ford, gm, Chrysler, Toyota, Nissan , Honda, all the big car companies sell electric vehicles. But every car has a different plug for charging. A tesla charger will not fit any other vehicle. And think about this, Florida just redid all its rest stops and didn't put in one charging station. That should tell you something.
Me: so is it just a question of infrastructure?
Him: well I don't know about that but let me tell you this. My electric bill at home went up so much the electric company put me in a higher bracket with a Higher rate. So by using more electricity I was punished twice. I went to see them to tell them I was driving an electric car so they should charge me less for using more and they just flipped me off( as a side note tallahassee utility won the award for the best utility in the country). It would have been cheaper in the long run to buy a gas vehicle.


Man on the street testimony about electric vehicles. I know Mathew and old rocks won't find this credible but reality is a bitch. My granddaughter is married to a tire mechanic who says his lifts at the shop can't even lift up a tesla to change the tires it is so heavy. There was some other defect he mentioned that I have forgotten about, but the point is that electric cars are not the panacea liberals would have us believe.
The Kind of "Science" That Sells Popcorn

Futuristic science is science fiction, which is no more scientific than vampire movies. We should reject the escapist geeks who peddle this mind-candy junk food.
 
Ok, this all happened in a parking lot in Tallahassee fl. By a chevy volt and two charging stations both of which had a sign on them that said out of order. I was slipping in to a Whole Foods store(around here we say whole wallet cause their prices take all your money) when I passed a chevy volt hooked up to one of two charging stations. I went in and did my shopping and on the way out the owner of the volt was there and we struck up a conversation. It went something like this, he was a very salty old curmudgeon so I will edit out the most colorful language and he claimed he was a computer guy for the store.

Me: hey man, how can you hook up to the car when both machines are out of order?
Him: oh this is such a pile of crap, this machine works and the other one doesn't.
Me: how do you like your volt?
Him: I like it a lot. I have driven this thing 5000 miles and only used 6 gallons of gas. My family all worked for gm, I wanted an American made car and I got the discount for employees(and the subsidy too I am assuming). Did you know that even in American made cars at least 30% is still made overseas, mostly Chinese electrical parts.
Me: I thought the chevy volts were all electric, I didn't know they had a gas motor. So this thing is really a hybrid?
Him: we'll sort of. The motor charges the batteries and is not hooked directly to the drive train. This car has a range of 63 miles. I live in quincy(about 30 miles away) so when I come here to work I plug in and am charged up for the ride home.
Me: well tell me something, is this the wave of the future or what?
Him: well you know that Britain just passed a law outlawing all gas and diesel vehicles by 2050.
Me: well I don't agree with that, I think the market should determine what works, but tell me, are these things going to be a significant part of the auto world in 20 years?
Him: you know there are only ten charging stations in all of Tallahassee. Ford, gm, Chrysler, Toyota, Nissan , Honda, all the big car companies sell electric vehicles. But every car has a different plug for charging. A tesla charger will not fit any other vehicle. And think about this, Florida just redid all its rest stops and didn't put in one charging station. That should tell you something.
Me: so is it just a question of infrastructure?
Him: well I don't know about that but let me tell you this. My electric bill at home went up so much the electric company put me in a higher bracket with a Higher rate. So by using more electricity I was punished twice. I went to see them to tell them I was driving an electric car so they should charge me less for using more and they just flipped me off( as a side note tallahassee utility won the award for the best utility in the country). It would have been cheaper in the long run to buy a gas vehicle.


Man on the street testimony about electric vehicles. I know Mathew and old rocks won't find this credible but reality is a bitch. My granddaughter is married to a tire mechanic who says his lifts at the shop can't even lift up a tesla to change the tires it is so heavy. There was some other defect he mentioned that I have forgotten about, but the point is that electric cars are not the panacea liberals would have us believe.
I was just reading today those cars emit a emi inside the cabin and may not be good for folks with pace makers.
Really? Link?
 
There are far better and faster charging batteries being worked on right now. Some of them show the promise of 500 to 1000 miles per charge. And a much faster charge.

Building a better battery is the holy grail for people who want better technology. Now researchers at the University of Texas, Austin say they may have found that battery — or something close. But their claims have sparked controversy.

At the center of this debate is a towering figure in the world of science — John Goodenough, who teaches material science at the university.

In 1980, his work led to the invention of the lithium-ion battery — now crucial to powering everything from cellphones and laptops to electric cars. For a lot of people, that would probably be enough. But at 94 years old, he's still at it.

"All the young people that I had as postdocs are getting ready to retire," he says, laughing.

Now, Goodenough and his team say they've created a new battery that may store up to five times more power than current ones. And, even better, such a battery would charge and recharge in a matter of minutes — all without exploding.


ALL TECH CONSIDERED
Batteries With A Less Fiery Future

The implications are huge.

"If we can really lower the price of these batteries, there's so much you can do with it," Goodenough says.

At 94, Lithium-Ion Pioneer Eyes A New Longer-Lasting Battery
 
Ok, this all happened in a parking lot in Tallahassee fl. By a chevy volt and two charging stations both of which had a sign on them that said out of order. I was slipping in to a Whole Foods store(around here we say whole wallet cause their prices take all your money) when I passed a chevy volt hooked up to one of two charging stations. I went in and did my shopping and on the way out the owner of the volt was there and we struck up a conversation. It went something like this, he was a very salty old curmudgeon so I will edit out the most colorful language and he claimed he was a computer guy for the store.

Me: hey man, how can you hook up to the car when both machines are out of order?
Him: oh this is such a pile of crap, this machine works and the other one doesn't.
Me: how do you like your volt?
Him: I like it a lot. I have driven this thing 5000 miles and only used 6 gallons of gas. My family all worked for gm, I wanted an American made car and I got the discount for employees(and the subsidy too I am assuming). Did you know that even in American made cars at least 30% is still made overseas, mostly Chinese electrical parts.
Me: I thought the chevy volts were all electric, I didn't know they had a gas motor. So this thing is really a hybrid?
Him: we'll sort of. The motor charges the batteries and is not hooked directly to the drive train. This car has a range of 63 miles. I live in quincy(about 30 miles away) so when I come here to work I plug in and am charged up for the ride home.
Me: well tell me something, is this the wave of the future or what?
Him: well you know that Britain just passed a law outlawing all gas and diesel vehicles by 2050.
Me: well I don't agree with that, I think the market should determine what works, but tell me, are these things going to be a significant part of the auto world in 20 years?
Him: you know there are only ten charging stations in all of Tallahassee. Ford, gm, Chrysler, Toyota, Nissan , Honda, all the big car companies sell electric vehicles. But every car has a different plug for charging. A tesla charger will not fit any other vehicle. And think about this, Florida just redid all its rest stops and didn't put in one charging station. That should tell you something.
Me: so is it just a question of infrastructure?
Him: well I don't know about that but let me tell you this. My electric bill at home went up so much the electric company put me in a higher bracket with a Higher rate. So by using more electricity I was punished twice. I went to see them to tell them I was driving an electric car so they should charge me less for using more and they just flipped me off( as a side note tallahassee utility won the award for the best utility in the country). It would have been cheaper in the long run to buy a gas vehicle.


Man on the street testimony about electric vehicles. I know Mathew and old rocks won't find this credible but reality is a bitch. My granddaughter is married to a tire mechanic who says his lifts at the shop can't even lift up a tesla to change the tires it is so heavy. There was some other defect he mentioned that I have forgotten about, but the point is that electric cars are not the panacea liberals would have us believe.
I was just reading today those cars emit a emi inside the cabin and may not be good for folks with pace makers.
Really? Link?
upload_2017-8-8_0-37-30.jpeg


They're already concerned about the EM that cell phones and the like generate. But here you go...

Can Electric Cars & Hybrids Interfere With Pacemakers?

What do you think would happen if one of these vehicles was misaligned and started generating a EMP pulse every few seconds?

Don't think it's possible?

There's a pretty big electric motor/generator under that hood. If it doesn't have a Faraday cage to contain the electromagnetic fields generated I wouldn't want someone around it who has a pacemaker.

*****CHUCKLE*****



:)
 
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Can Electric Cars & Hybrids Interfere With Pacemakers?

Some of those sources could be the increasing number of hybrid and electric cars we drive.

Thankfully, Mayo Clinic is working to nip this problem in the bud with a study of pacemakers and hybrid vehicles. There, researchers monitored 30 pacemaker recipients as they rode in a 2012 Toyota Prius.

Study participants rotated positions within the vehicle, moving from the driver's seat, to the passenger's seat, to both sides of the rear. Patients were also tested while standing in front of and behind the vehicle.

When all was said and done, researchers determined that the Prius "did not generate clinically relevant amounts of [electromagnetic interference] and that the car is safe for patients with implanted devices...". However, lead researchers Luis R. Scott, M.D. and Fernando Tondato, M.D. both agree that further research is necessary to verify the study's results. Presumably subsequent studies will include a broader range of vehicles, including some electric cars.

You can watch Dr. Scott discuss the study's findings in the video clip embedded above.

That might possibly be a problem. However, it does not seem to be with the testing at present.
 
There are far better and faster charging batteries being worked on right now. Some of them show the promise of 500 to 1000 miles per charge. And a much faster charge.

Building a better battery is the holy grail for people who want better technology. Now researchers at the University of Texas, Austin say they may have found that battery — or something close. But their claims have sparked controversy.

At the center of this debate is a towering figure in the world of science — John Goodenough, who teaches material science at the university.

In 1980, his work led to the invention of the lithium-ion battery — now crucial to powering everything from cellphones and laptops to electric cars. For a lot of people, that would probably be enough. But at 94 years old, he's still at it.

"All the young people that I had as postdocs are getting ready to retire," he says, laughing.

Now, Goodenough and his team say they've created a new battery that may store up to five times more power than current ones. And, even better, such a battery would charge and recharge in a matter of minutes — all without exploding.


ALL TECH CONSIDERED
Batteries With A Less Fiery Future

The implications are huge.

"If we can really lower the price of these batteries, there's so much you can do with it," Goodenough says.

At 94, Lithium-Ion Pioneer Eyes A New Longer-Lasting Battery

upload_2017-8-8_0-59-36.jpeg


https://www.lion.com/catalog/courses/osha/lithium-battery-safety-(1)

Lithium Battery Storage | US CHEMICAL STORAGE

Lithium battery - Wikipedia

...Another manufacturer states that "button" size lithium batteries contain perchalate, which is regulated as a hazardous waste in California; regulated quantities would not be found in typical consumer use of these cells.

Perchlorate - Wikipedia

A perchlorate is the name for a chemical compound containing the perchlorate ion, ClO−
4. The preponderance of perchlorates are produced commercially. Perchlorate salts are mainly used for propellants, exploiting properties as powerful oxidizing agents Perchlorate contamination in the environment has been extensively studied as it has effects on human health. Perchlorate has been linked to its negative influence on the thyroid gland.


Just what we need... All cars running on industrial size lithium batteries and some idiot decides to dump them in the water supply instead of disposing of them properly.

*****SMILE*****



:)
 
Last edited:
Can Electric Cars & Hybrids Interfere With Pacemakers?

Some of those sources could be the increasing number of hybrid and electric cars we drive.

Thankfully, Mayo Clinic is working to nip this problem in the bud with a study of pacemakers and hybrid vehicles. There, researchers monitored 30 pacemaker recipients as they rode in a 2012 Toyota Prius.

Study participants rotated positions within the vehicle, moving from the driver's seat, to the passenger's seat, to both sides of the rear. Patients were also tested while standing in front of and behind the vehicle.

When all was said and done, researchers determined that the Prius "did not generate clinically relevant amounts of [electromagnetic interference] and that the car is safe for patients with implanted devices...". However, lead researchers Luis R. Scott, M.D. and Fernando Tondato, M.D. both agree that further research is necessary to verify the study's results. Presumably subsequent studies will include a broader range of vehicles, including some electric cars.

You can watch Dr. Scott discuss the study's findings in the video clip embedded above.

That might possibly be a problem. However, it does not seem to be with the testing at present.

upload_2017-8-8_1-14-10.jpeg


They conducted their studies under ideal conditions and most likely in brand new cars.

How about when the cars electric motor has been used for twenty years and is on it's last legs?

*****CHUCKLE*****



:)
 

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