Electing Hillary is NOT Enough

Czernobog

Gold Member
Sep 29, 2014
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495
130
Corner of Chaos and Reason
I do think there should be a strong, healthy opposition party to keep Democrats honest. I don’t think we’re always right, or that government can fix everything. I don’t want our foreign policy to go unchallenged, or our party to become the caricature depicted by some on the right and the left: corporatist, elitist, corrupt, and out of touch. But the Republican Party can’t serve as a healthy opposition right now, because the Republican Party is no longer a functioning institution. Indeed, the most consequential truth of this entire nightmare of an election is that in 2016, the party of Lincoln and Reagan facilitated the nomination of an unstable demagogue for president of the United States.
---
After George W. Bush left office with a near–30 percent approval rating, the party’s centre of power and influence shifted from elected officials to media activists like Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, and the Breitbart crew, who kept their audiences enraged with a business model based on grievance, resentment, and bizarre conspiracies. They didn’t just target Democrats, but any Republican who even contemplated compromising with Democrats, a sin that often led to a primary challenge.
---
Republican Senator Chuck Grassley made a big show of wanting to compromise on the Affordable Care Act. When months of negotiations and multiple concessions to Republicans went nowhere, the president asked Grassley, “Is there any form of health-care reform that you can support?” He admitted, “Probably not.”
Electing Hillary Isn’t Enough

The very same Freedom Caucus that forced John Boehner into a government shut-down when he publicly expressed a desire for a "grand compromise" over taxes, and spending, then forced him out over his "party betraying blasphemy", are now making rumblings of outing Paul Ryan for his "betrayal of Trump".

This is the new reality. What should be a strong party of opposition, and challenge to compromise has become a party in fear of its own base, and a party of inaction, obstruction, and stagnation. Anyone who thinks that a Republican Congress will act as a responsible counter-balance to the Presidency hasn't been paying attention to the last 6 years. Remember this is the party that forced Marco Rubio to vote against his own immigration reform legislation out of fear of being primaried if he was perceived as "working with Obama, and Democrats".

If there was any doubt that the next four years will be the same, one need only consider the words of John McCain - "I promise you that we will be united against any Supreme Court nominee that Hillary Clinton … would put up." - followed by Ted Cruz musing that an indefinite hold on a Supreme Court Justice is a doable thing. This is a Republican Party that is already talking about challenging the legitimacy of a Clinton Presidency: "To hold on to their congressional majorities, Republicans should promise voters they’ll impeach Hillary by 2018." Again this sentiment is being echoed by Mark Levin.

Electing Trump may solve the existential problem of Trump, but, in order to break the stranglehold that the extremists have on the Republican Party, we need to break the party's hold on Washington, at all levels, and give the rational, reasonable leaders of the classic party of opposition time to reclaim control of their party.
 
I do think there should be a strong, healthy opposition party to keep Democrats honest. I don’t think we’re always right, or that government can fix everything. I don’t want our foreign policy to go unchallenged, or our party to become the caricature depicted by some on the right and the left: corporatist, elitist, corrupt, and out of touch. But the Republican Party can’t serve as a healthy opposition right now, because the Republican Party is no longer a functioning institution. Indeed, the most consequential truth of this entire nightmare of an election is that in 2016, the party of Lincoln and Reagan facilitated the nomination of an unstable demagogue for president of the United States.
---
After George W. Bush left office with a near–30 percent approval rating, the party’s centre of power and influence shifted from elected officials to media activists like Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, and the Breitbart crew, who kept their audiences enraged with a business model based on grievance, resentment, and bizarre conspiracies. They didn’t just target Democrats, but any Republican who even contemplated compromising with Democrats, a sin that often led to a primary challenge.
---
Republican Senator Chuck Grassley made a big show of wanting to compromise on the Affordable Care Act. When months of negotiations and multiple concessions to Republicans went nowhere, the president asked Grassley, “Is there any form of health-care reform that you can support?” He admitted, “Probably not.”
Electing Hillary Isn’t Enough

The very same Freedom Caucus that forced John Boehner into a government shut-down when he publicly expressed a desire for a "grand compromise" over taxes, and spending, then forced him out over his "party betraying blasphemy", are now making rumblings of outing Paul Ryan for his "betrayal of Trump".

This is the new reality. What should be a strong party of opposition, and challenge to compromise has become a party in fear of its own base, and a party of inaction, obstruction, and stagnation. Anyone who thinks that a Republican Congress will act as a responsible counter-balance to the Presidency hasn't been paying attention to the last 6 years. Remember this is the party that forced Marco Rubio to vote against his own immigration reform legislation out of fear of being primaried if he was perceived as "working with Obama, and Democrats".

If there was any doubt that the next four years will be the same, one need only consider the words of John McCain - "I promise you that we will be united against any Supreme Court nominee that Hillary Clinton … would put up." - followed by Ted Cruz musing that an indefinite hold on a Supreme Court Justice is a doable thing. This is a Republican Party that is already talking about challenging the legitimacy of a Clinton Presidency: "To hold on to their congressional majorities, Republicans should promise voters they’ll impeach Hillary by 2018." Again this sentiment is being echoed by Mark Levin.

Electing Trump may solve the existential problem of Trump, but, in order to break the stranglehold that the extremists have on the Republican Party, we need to break the party's hold on Washington, at all levels, and give the rational, reasonable leaders of the classic party of opposition time to reclaim control of their party.

No!

Simple as that...

I would rather have the harsh opposition than what this country had from 2009 to 2011 that gave the citizens of this country the ACA!
 
I do think there should be a strong, healthy opposition party to keep Democrats honest. I don’t think we’re always right, or that government can fix everything. I don’t want our foreign policy to go unchallenged, or our party to become the caricature depicted by some on the right and the left: corporatist, elitist, corrupt, and out of touch. But the Republican Party can’t serve as a healthy opposition right now, because the Republican Party is no longer a functioning institution. Indeed, the most consequential truth of this entire nightmare of an election is that in 2016, the party of Lincoln and Reagan facilitated the nomination of an unstable demagogue for president of the United States.
---
After George W. Bush left office with a near–30 percent approval rating, the party’s centre of power and influence shifted from elected officials to media activists like Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, and the Breitbart crew, who kept their audiences enraged with a business model based on grievance, resentment, and bizarre conspiracies. They didn’t just target Democrats, but any Republican who even contemplated compromising with Democrats, a sin that often led to a primary challenge.
---
Republican Senator Chuck Grassley made a big show of wanting to compromise on the Affordable Care Act. When months of negotiations and multiple concessions to Republicans went nowhere, the president asked Grassley, “Is there any form of health-care reform that you can support?” He admitted, “Probably not.”
Electing Hillary Isn’t Enough

The very same Freedom Caucus that forced John Boehner into a government shut-down when he publicly expressed a desire for a "grand compromise" over taxes, and spending, then forced him out over his "party betraying blasphemy", are now making rumblings of outing Paul Ryan for his "betrayal of Trump".

This is the new reality. What should be a strong party of opposition, and challenge to compromise has become a party in fear of its own base, and a party of inaction, obstruction, and stagnation. Anyone who thinks that a Republican Congress will act as a responsible counter-balance to the Presidency hasn't been paying attention to the last 6 years. Remember this is the party that forced Marco Rubio to vote against his own immigration reform legislation out of fear of being primaried if he was perceived as "working with Obama, and Democrats".

If there was any doubt that the next four years will be the same, one need only consider the words of John McCain - "I promise you that we will be united against any Supreme Court nominee that Hillary Clinton … would put up." - followed by Ted Cruz musing that an indefinite hold on a Supreme Court Justice is a doable thing. This is a Republican Party that is already talking about challenging the legitimacy of a Clinton Presidency: "To hold on to their congressional majorities, Republicans should promise voters they’ll impeach Hillary by 2018." Again this sentiment is being echoed by Mark Levin.

Electing Trump may solve the existential problem of Trump, but, in order to break the stranglehold that the extremists have on the Republican Party, we need to break the party's hold on Washington, at all levels, and give the rational, reasonable leaders of the classic party of opposition time to reclaim control of their party.

No!

Simple as that...

I would rather have the harsh opposition than what this country had from 2009 to 2011 that gave the citizens of this country the ACA!

Obstruction is not synonymous with opposition, regardless of how much you would like to convince everyone otherwise.
 
Rank and file Republicans have lost faith in those who presume to consider themselves the party leadership because if they had truly represented the folks who elected them Obama and most of his administration would have been impeached long ago. There is almost no incumbent who will receive a vote from me. As Trump has said: it's time to drain the swamp.
 
I do think there should be a strong, healthy opposition party to keep Democrats honest. I don’t think we’re always right, or that government can fix everything. I don’t want our foreign policy to go unchallenged, or our party to become the caricature depicted by some on the right and the left: corporatist, elitist, corrupt, and out of touch. But the Republican Party can’t serve as a healthy opposition right now, because the Republican Party is no longer a functioning institution. Indeed, the most consequential truth of this entire nightmare of an election is that in 2016, the party of Lincoln and Reagan facilitated the nomination of an unstable demagogue for president of the United States.
---
After George W. Bush left office with a near–30 percent approval rating, the party’s centre of power and influence shifted from elected officials to media activists like Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, and the Breitbart crew, who kept their audiences enraged with a business model based on grievance, resentment, and bizarre conspiracies. They didn’t just target Democrats, but any Republican who even contemplated compromising with Democrats, a sin that often led to a primary challenge.
---
Republican Senator Chuck Grassley made a big show of wanting to compromise on the Affordable Care Act. When months of negotiations and multiple concessions to Republicans went nowhere, the president asked Grassley, “Is there any form of health-care reform that you can support?” He admitted, “Probably not.”
Electing Hillary Isn’t Enough

The very same Freedom Caucus that forced John Boehner into a government shut-down when he publicly expressed a desire for a "grand compromise" over taxes, and spending, then forced him out over his "party betraying blasphemy", are now making rumblings of outing Paul Ryan for his "betrayal of Trump".

This is the new reality. What should be a strong party of opposition, and challenge to compromise has become a party in fear of its own base, and a party of inaction, obstruction, and stagnation. Anyone who thinks that a Republican Congress will act as a responsible counter-balance to the Presidency hasn't been paying attention to the last 6 years. Remember this is the party that forced Marco Rubio to vote against his own immigration reform legislation out of fear of being primaried if he was perceived as "working with Obama, and Democrats".

If there was any doubt that the next four years will be the same, one need only consider the words of John McCain - "I promise you that we will be united against any Supreme Court nominee that Hillary Clinton … would put up." - followed by Ted Cruz musing that an indefinite hold on a Supreme Court Justice is a doable thing. This is a Republican Party that is already talking about challenging the legitimacy of a Clinton Presidency: "To hold on to their congressional majorities, Republicans should promise voters they’ll impeach Hillary by 2018." Again this sentiment is being echoed by Mark Levin.

Electing Trump may solve the existential problem of Trump, but, in order to break the stranglehold that the extremists have on the Republican Party, we need to break the party's hold on Washington, at all levels, and give the rational, reasonable leaders of the classic party of opposition time to reclaim control of their party.

No!

Simple as that...

I would rather have the harsh opposition than what this country had from 2009 to 2011 that gave the citizens of this country the ACA!

Obstruction is not synonymous with opposition, regardless of how much you would like to convince everyone otherwise.

And what you would like is the one party system that gave this country the ACA...

So I can live with the obstruction just as long as the government never passes another bill that they will read after passing!

Giving someone like Hillary Clinton the House and Senate is wrong no matter how you attempt to justify it to yourself because of the fact she will abuse her Presidential powers and the Democratic House and Senate will do nothing to stop her!

One last thing it matter not because the Democratic Party will not win the House this November and by 2018 there is no damn way the Democratic Party will win it either and by 2020 Hillary Clinton one term will be done because America will be sick of her and her corruption!
 
I do think there should be a strong, healthy opposition party to keep Democrats honest. I don’t think we’re always right, or that government can fix everything. I don’t want our foreign policy to go unchallenged, or our party to become the caricature depicted by some on the right and the left: corporatist, elitist, corrupt, and out of touch. But the Republican Party can’t serve as a healthy opposition right now, because the Republican Party is no longer a functioning institution. Indeed, the most consequential truth of this entire nightmare of an election is that in 2016, the party of Lincoln and Reagan facilitated the nomination of an unstable demagogue for president of the United States.
---
After George W. Bush left office with a near–30 percent approval rating, the party’s centre of power and influence shifted from elected officials to media activists like Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, and the Breitbart crew, who kept their audiences enraged with a business model based on grievance, resentment, and bizarre conspiracies. They didn’t just target Democrats, but any Republican who even contemplated compromising with Democrats, a sin that often led to a primary challenge.
---
Republican Senator Chuck Grassley made a big show of wanting to compromise on the Affordable Care Act. When months of negotiations and multiple concessions to Republicans went nowhere, the president asked Grassley, “Is there any form of health-care reform that you can support?” He admitted, “Probably not.”
Electing Hillary Isn’t Enough

The very same Freedom Caucus that forced John Boehner into a government shut-down when he publicly expressed a desire for a "grand compromise" over taxes, and spending, then forced him out over his "party betraying blasphemy", are now making rumblings of outing Paul Ryan for his "betrayal of Trump".

This is the new reality. What should be a strong party of opposition, and challenge to compromise has become a party in fear of its own base, and a party of inaction, obstruction, and stagnation. Anyone who thinks that a Republican Congress will act as a responsible counter-balance to the Presidency hasn't been paying attention to the last 6 years. Remember this is the party that forced Marco Rubio to vote against his own immigration reform legislation out of fear of being primaried if he was perceived as "working with Obama, and Democrats".

If there was any doubt that the next four years will be the same, one need only consider the words of John McCain - "I promise you that we will be united against any Supreme Court nominee that Hillary Clinton … would put up." - followed by Ted Cruz musing that an indefinite hold on a Supreme Court Justice is a doable thing. This is a Republican Party that is already talking about challenging the legitimacy of a Clinton Presidency: "To hold on to their congressional majorities, Republicans should promise voters they’ll impeach Hillary by 2018." Again this sentiment is being echoed by Mark Levin.

Electing Trump may solve the existential problem of Trump, but, in order to break the stranglehold that the extremists have on the Republican Party, we need to break the party's hold on Washington, at all levels, and give the rational, reasonable leaders of the classic party of opposition time to reclaim control of their party.

No!

Simple as that...

I would rather have the harsh opposition than what this country had from 2009 to 2011 that gave the citizens of this country the ACA!

Obstruction is not synonymous with opposition, regardless of how much you would like to convince everyone otherwise.

And what you would like is the one party system that gave this country the ACA...

So I can live with the obstruction just as long as the government never passes another bill that they will read after passing!

Giving someone like Hillary Clinton the House and Senate is wrong no matter how you attempt to justify it to yourself because of the fact she will abuse her Presidential powers and the Democratic House and Senate will do nothing to stop her!

One last thing it matter not because the Democratic Party will not win the House this November and by 2018 there is no damn way the Democratic Party will win it either and by 2020 Hillary Clinton one term will be done because America will be sick of her and her corruption!
But that is what they want. Seems that way. The right the same way though. I like checks and balances. Hacks like one party rule
 
And what you would like is the one party system that gave this country the ACA...
No, I wouldn't. You seemed to have missed the point entirely. What I want is two strong parties, equally committed to finding the best possible path to a functioning government. Instead what we have is one party who has demonstrated a willingness to compromise in order to achieve that, and a party that is not, forcing the party in power to use executive caveat, and any other means necessary in order to do the job of governing around a party bent on obstruction, and gridlock.

I don't want Republicans thrown out of Congress to never be heard from again. I want them to be in a position that the extremists no longer get to bully the rational statesmen, and give the reasonable Republicans to wrench control of the party back from the nutcakes, and extremists. Then we can, again, have honest debates about ideology, and have a healty party of opposition.
 
I do think there should be a strong, healthy opposition party to keep Democrats honest. I don’t think we’re always right, or that government can fix everything. I don’t want our foreign policy to go unchallenged, or our party to become the caricature depicted by some on the right and the left: corporatist, elitist, corrupt, and out of touch. But the Republican Party can’t serve as a healthy opposition right now, because the Republican Party is no longer a functioning institution. Indeed, the most consequential truth of this entire nightmare of an election is that in 2016, the party of Lincoln and Reagan facilitated the nomination of an unstable demagogue for president of the United States.
---
After George W. Bush left office with a near–30 percent approval rating, the party’s centre of power and influence shifted from elected officials to media activists like Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, and the Breitbart crew, who kept their audiences enraged with a business model based on grievance, resentment, and bizarre conspiracies. They didn’t just target Democrats, but any Republican who even contemplated compromising with Democrats, a sin that often led to a primary challenge.
---
Republican Senator Chuck Grassley made a big show of wanting to compromise on the Affordable Care Act. When months of negotiations and multiple concessions to Republicans went nowhere, the president asked Grassley, “Is there any form of health-care reform that you can support?” He admitted, “Probably not.”
Electing Hillary Isn’t Enough

The very same Freedom Caucus that forced John Boehner into a government shut-down when he publicly expressed a desire for a "grand compromise" over taxes, and spending, then forced him out over his "party betraying blasphemy", are now making rumblings of outing Paul Ryan for his "betrayal of Trump".

This is the new reality. What should be a strong party of opposition, and challenge to compromise has become a party in fear of its own base, and a party of inaction, obstruction, and stagnation. Anyone who thinks that a Republican Congress will act as a responsible counter-balance to the Presidency hasn't been paying attention to the last 6 years. Remember this is the party that forced Marco Rubio to vote against his own immigration reform legislation out of fear of being primaried if he was perceived as "working with Obama, and Democrats".

If there was any doubt that the next four years will be the same, one need only consider the words of John McCain - "I promise you that we will be united against any Supreme Court nominee that Hillary Clinton … would put up." - followed by Ted Cruz musing that an indefinite hold on a Supreme Court Justice is a doable thing. This is a Republican Party that is already talking about challenging the legitimacy of a Clinton Presidency: "To hold on to their congressional majorities, Republicans should promise voters they’ll impeach Hillary by 2018." Again this sentiment is being echoed by Mark Levin.

Electing Trump may solve the existential problem of Trump, but, in order to break the stranglehold that the extremists have on the Republican Party, we need to break the party's hold on Washington, at all levels, and give the rational, reasonable leaders of the classic party of opposition time to reclaim control of their party.

No!

Simple as that...

I would rather have the harsh opposition than what this country had from 2009 to 2011 that gave the citizens of this country the ACA!

Obstruction is not synonymous with opposition, regardless of how much you would like to convince everyone otherwise.

And what you would like is the one party system that gave this country the ACA...

So I can live with the obstruction just as long as the government never passes another bill that they will read after passing!

Giving someone like Hillary Clinton the House and Senate is wrong no matter how you attempt to justify it to yourself because of the fact she will abuse her Presidential powers and the Democratic House and Senate will do nothing to stop her!

One last thing it matter not because the Democratic Party will not win the House this November and by 2018 there is no damn way the Democratic Party will win it either and by 2020 Hillary Clinton one term will be done because America will be sick of her and her corruption!
But that is what they want. Seems that way. The right the same way though. I like checks and balances. Hacks like one party rule

No matter which political party is in power I want the opposition party to control the House and Senate because like you wrote checks and balances...

Too many partisans believe their political party can check itself but the reality that is how this country got it corrupt system...

What is need a third and fourth political party in the House and a third party in the Senate to counter the Republican and Democratic Party for once!

Of course Partisans will say no and believe it will make Governing impossible and making deals to get things done should never happen because that would mean people would work together to get shit done for the American people and not special interest groups!
 
No matter which political party is in power I want the opposition party to control the House and Senate because like you wrote checks and balances...

Too many partisans believe their political party can check itself but the reality that is how this country got it corrupt system...

What is need a third and fourth political party in the House and a third party in the Senate to counter the Republican and Democratic Party for once!

Of course Partisans will say no and believe it will make Governing impossible and making deals to get things done should never happen because that would mean people would work together to get shit done for the American people and not special interest groups!
The thing is, I want that as well. But the key is "checks and balances". That's supposed to work both ways. It is the very heart of compromise - to prevent either party from ti[p[ping the scale too far one way, or the other. But, when one party retreats to complete obstructionism, that system of checks and balances digresses into on of gridlock, and all we are left with is dysfunction, leaving everyone frustrated, and angry.
 

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