Education Myths

[GotZoom]

Then you and I agree.



Get that sentence from your private school education?

Oh El Dorfo. Now we are picking on typos.

First, Jillian complaining about a Marine song.

Now you picking on typos.

Must be a slow day.

 

[Annie]

I did? Got a quote for that allegation?

Wow, 'quote' no. Infer, yes. What you wrote about both your wife's class, with parents that don't care and your mother's experience with an entire sophomore class.

Then how the charter/voucher schools could claim 'teaching' for less costs. Happens all the time, check out parochial school salaries and terra nova scores of the students.

Never you mind, yours is so closed nothing will get through.

 

[jasendorf]

Oh El Dorfo. Now we are picking on typos.

First, Jillian complaining about a Marine song.

Now you picking on typos.

Must be a slow day.

That's a typo? A typo is a slip of the fingers where the wrong letter ends up in a word. Such as, "You're an iduot." Are you suggesting that he "slipped" and typed a bunch of correctly spelled words as a result?

 

[jasendorf]

Wow, 'quote' no. Infer, yes. What you wrote about both your wife's class, with parents that don't care and your mother's experience with an entire sophomore class.

Then how the charter/voucher schools could claim 'teaching' for less costs. Happens all the time, check out parochial school salaries and terra nova scores of the students.

Never you mind, yours is so closed nothing will get through.

Just because there are challenges in public schools doesn't mean you punish those teachers who attempt to overcome them by undermining their attempts and further destroy the chances of those kids with bad parents chances at a good education.

 

[5stringJeff]

Just because there are challenges in public schools doesn't mean you punish those teachers who attempt to overcome them by undermining their attempts and further destroy the chances of those kids with bad parents chances at a good education.

And just because there are challenges in public schools doesn't mean you punish kids whose parents want to get them a better education by limiting their choices in education.

 

[Annie]

Just because there are challenges in public schools doesn't mean you punish those teachers who attempt to overcome them by undermining their attempts and further destroy the chances of those kids with bad parents chances at a good education.

Again, all you say is, "No." No to vouchers, no to charters, no to getting kids out of regular classrooms that do not belong there. The reason? It's not fair.

 

[GotZoom]

That's a typo? A typo is a slip of the fingers where the wrong letter ends up in a word. Such as, "You're an iduot." Are you suggesting that he "slipped" and typed a bunch of correctly spelled words as a result?

I think you are losing it. Very bad for a 34-year old..still so young.

That "he" is me. You ask me if he slipped...I am the he who slipped.

And just a little FYI. People who type very fast (70 wp and above) usually type whole words as opposed to each letter of the word. So when someone means to type haven't...their fingers could go off and type a different "hav..." word.

I don't know why I explained that to you. You can't even follow along to keep track of who posted what.

But you know..maybe you aren't getting old; maybe you are just an iduot.

 

[jasendorf]

Again, all you say is, "No." No to vouchers, no to charters, no to getting kids out of regular classrooms that do not belong there. The reason? It's not fair.

I say yes to vouchers and charters that don't destroy the education system AS A WHOLE. Are vouchers and charters, as they exist right now, good for individuals? Definitely. Are they good for our country? No. The end won't be better education for our country... it'll mean a greater disparity between the classes resulting in greater resentment between those classes. Once the vouchers and charters have destroyed public education, the worst for-profit schools will be the only schools which accept only the voucher and the best will be voucher + $$$$$. There will be no difference except that someone will be making big bucks at taxpayers' expense.

 

[jasendorf]

I think you are losing it. Very bad for a 34-year old..still so young.

That "he" is me. You ask me if he slipped...I am the he who slipped.

And just a little FYI. People who type very fast (70 wp and above) usually type whole words as opposed to each letter of the word. So when someone means to type haven't...their fingers could go off and type a different "hav..." word.

I don't know why I explained that to you. You can't even follow along to keep track of who posted what.

But you know..maybe you aren't getting old; maybe you are just an iduot.

Oh, well the word "haven't" makes much more sense now... and, you're right... I did not realize you and "he" were one and the same... but at least I won't hide behind calling it a "typo" when it wasn't.

To respond to your rumination, I'm a class-warfare-liberal... not a race-baiting-liberal... duh!

 

[Annie]

I say yes to vouchers and charters that don't destroy the education system AS A WHOLE. Are vouchers and charters, as they exist right now, good for individuals? Definitely. Are they good for our country? No. The end won't be better education for our country... it'll mean a greater disparity between the classes resulting in greater resentment between those classes. Once the vouchers and charters have destroyed public education, the worst for-profit schools will be the only schools which accept only the voucher and the best will be voucher + $$$$$. There will be no difference except that someone will be making big bucks at taxpayers' expense.

Wrong, every child that gets a decent education is a plus for the country. Perhaps the only way of improving public schools is to come up with a better system, one geared to the individuals, which is what vouchers allow parents to do and charters offer more directly.

Your guess about vouchers 'destroying' the public schools just seems to be your concession that most parents in the worst performing schools would opt out with choice. Why would you deny them the opportunity to do better by their kids?

There is disparity in people, problem is the schools pretend to teach 'all' and the students pretend to 'learn'.

 

[GotZoom]

Oh, well the word "haven't" makes much more sense now... and, you're right... I did not realize you and "he" were one and the same... but at least I won't hide behind calling it a "typo" when it wasn't.

To respond to your rumination, I'm a class-warfare-liberal... not a race-baiting-liberal... duh!

Rare form today El Dorfo.

From Wikipedia:

A typographical error, or typo, is a mistake made during the typing process. The term includes errors due to slips of the hand or finger, subconsciously typing a homophone, and also mechanical failure, but excludes errors of ignorance. However, it is common to find the word typo used as a euphemism to describe instances of poor spelling, punctuation or grammar. Typographical errors typically manifest in the form of an additional or missing character, or the switching of two characters.

But we don't neet to nit-pic over defintions.

Question for you. When your little bundle of joy is old enough for school, do you want the best education possible for him? The best schools? Best teachers?

 

[jasendorf]

Wrong, every child that gets a decent education is a plus for the country. Perhaps the only way of improving public schools is to come up with a better system, one geared to the individuals, which is what vouchers allow parents to do and charters offer more directly.

Your guess about vouchers 'destroying' the public schools just seems to be your concession that most parents in the worst performing schools would opt out with choice. Why would you deny them the opportunity to do better by their kids?

There is disparity in people, problem is the schools pretend to teach 'all' and the students pretend to 'learn'.

So, your solution is "let the kids with ignorant parents rot"?

My "guess about destroying" is simple. Once the voucher and charter schools, or more accurately... the companies which own these for-profit schools, have hoodwinked enough people into believing that they are doing the same job as the public schools for "half the cost" the voters will eventually attempt to disband public education for a government-funded private system. Problem is, they aren't doing the same job as public schools... public schools are doing a job infinitely more difficult than that of voucher and charter schools. A job which mandates they teach educate every child, regardless of their challenges (or advantages for that matter), to a level determined by a state-issued test. Voucher and charter schools have no such mandate. Hence, they are not doing the same job... but the distinction will be lost in the lobbying and PR by the for-profit companies running these schools.

Only when it is too late to get public education back will people realize that unless someone challenges the current "we do 'it' for less" lie.

 

[jasendorf]

Rare form today El Dorfo.

From Wikipedia:

Just add that definition yourself? Enough already... your sentence made no sense due to your typo. Maybe they forgot to teach you proof-reading at your superior private school? There, better?

Question for you. When your little bundle of joy is old enough for school, do you want the best education possible for him? The best schools? Best teachers?

Of course.

And those can be found in the public school system. Let's see... in my public high school I... took AP Calculus from PhD in mathematics... took AP World History from a PhD in something (He was a Dr. but of what I can't recall... I do recall that he spent his early years teaching as a civilian on a Navy ship which he would race off of each weekend while at dock and take slide photos of all the places we ended up studying... very cool).... AP English from the same woman who taught my dad freshman English! (Teachers are getting out faster and faster these days as the conditions get worse and worse... good luck of that happening these days). There are plenty of good and great teachers in the public school system. Being involved enough in your child's education to find them and request them is all it takes.


The question you didn't ask pointedly, which is the biggest challenge these days, is whether I want a safe school with a low percentage of behavioral problems for him. Of course I do. But voucher schools will not solve that issue. Only parents and politicians can make that happen. Parents by stepping up, politicians by passing tort reform (as they've done for doctors) which allows teachers and administrators to take back their schools.

 

[Annie]

So, your solution is "let the kids with ignorant parents rot"?

My "guess about destroying" is simple. Once the voucher and charter schools, or more accurately... the companies which own these for-profit schools, have hoodwinked enough people into believing that they are doing the same job as the public schools for "half the cost" the voters will eventually attempt to disband public education for a government-funded private system. Problem is, they aren't doing the same job as public schools... public schools are doing a job infinitely more difficult than that of voucher and charter schools. A job which mandates they teach educate every child, regardless of their challenges (or advantages for that matter), to a level determined by a state-issued test. Voucher and charter schools have no such mandate. Hence, they are not doing the same job... but the distinction will be lost in the lobbying and PR by the for-profit companies running these schools.

Only when it is too late to get public education back will people realize that unless someone challenges the current "we do 'it' for less" lie.

All charter schools in Illinois must complete the ISATS state testing. They also must meet all NCLB goals or risk being listed.

Again, your option seems to be 'all kids should remain where they are, for good or bad' because it's not FAIR to those whose parents wouldn't help them. So, all sink or swim en mass. I think that's shameful.

 

[5stringJeff]

The question you didn't ask pointedly, which is the biggest challenge these days, is whether I want a safe school with a low percentage of behavioral problems for him. Of course I do. But voucher schools will not solve that issue.

Or, you could put your kid in a voucher school, in which case you'd definitely be getting him a better education.

 

[GotZoom]

Just add that definition yourself? Enough already... your sentence made no sense due to your typo. Maybe they forgot to teach you proof-reading at your superior private school? There, better?



Of course.

And those can be found in the public school system. Let's see... in my public high school I... took AP Calculus from PhD in mathematics... took AP World History from a PhD in something (He was a Dr. but of what I can't recall... I do recall that he spent his early years teaching as a civilian on a Navy ship which he would race off of each weekend while at dock and take slide photos of all the places we ended up studying... very cool).... AP English from the same woman who taught my dad freshman English! (Teachers are getting out faster and faster these days as the conditions get worse and worse... good luck of that happening these days). There are plenty of good and great teachers in the public school system. Being involved enough in your child's education to find them and request them is all it takes.


The question you didn't ask pointedly, which is the biggest challenge these days, is whether I want a safe school with a low percentage of behavioral problems for him. Of course I do. But voucher schools will not solve that issue. Only parents and politicians can make that happen. Parents by stepping up, politicians by passing tort reform (as they've done for doctors) which allows teachers and administrators to take back their schools.

Uh..yeah...ok. Good one.

I am overjoyed that you had highly qualified teachers when you went to school. I'm sure some of the kids in class benefited greatly from their educational background and life experience.

Let's suppose the school in your neighborhood doesn't give your little boy the same advantages as you had when you were in school.

For whatever reason there is, teachers who don't care, behavior problems in the school, etc. I'm sure the option of sending your kid to a private school is appealing to you.

After all, the only thing that counts is your child's education. I agree that the voucher program isn't the cure all fix to the problem of schools. There is a lot that needs to be done. But in the meantime, while the schools are being fixed, there are parents out there who need the option for their children.

The question you didn't ask pointedly, which is the biggest challenge these days, is whether I want a safe school with a low percentage of behavioral problems for him. Of course I do.

Bottom line El Dorfo....if the school your son had to go to did not meet your requirements, are you telling me you wouldn't consider a private school?

 

[Annie]

Just add that definition yourself? Enough already... your sentence made no sense due to your typo. Maybe they forgot to teach you proof-reading at your superior private school? There, better?



Of course.

And those can be found in the public school system. Let's see... in my public high school I... took AP Calculus from PhD in mathematics... took AP World History from a PhD in something (He was a Dr. but of what I can't recall... I do recall that he spent his early years teaching as a civilian on a Navy ship which he would race off of each weekend while at dock and take slide photos of all the places we ended up studying... very cool).... AP English from the same woman who taught my dad freshman English! (Teachers are getting out faster and faster these days as the conditions get worse and worse... good luck of that happening these days). There are plenty of good and great teachers in the public school system. Being involved enough in your child's education to find them and request them is all it takes.


The question you didn't ask pointedly, which is the biggest challenge these days, is whether I want a safe school with a low percentage of behavioral problems for him. Of course I do. But voucher schools will not solve that issue. Only parents and politicians can make that happen. Parents by stepping up, politicians by passing tort reform (as they've done for doctors) which allows teachers and administrators to take back their schools.

And your high school was in the inner city or a rural area in a non-populous state? Your parents income was less than $20k in today's dollars for a family of 4? Wow, you were lucky to have all those AP courses offered. In Chicago, that's just not happening. Oh the Latin School, sure. University of Chicago Lab school, ditto. A good handful of the Catholic high schools too. Now where I live, kids also have the AP option, and some other college level options. But then again, the avg income for the school district today is: $88,694

Here's info from a couple years back:

http://money.cnn.com/best/bplive/snapshots/42379.html

Somehow I doubt that most people in the district would be those qualifying for vouchers. Of course, they could just choose to send their kids to private schools.

The truth is, those today in the BAD schools are not the kids from 'advantaged homes' their parents are already paying the property taxes to ensure the schools are where they should be. Many also ante up the tuition for private schools, to avoid the problems with inclusion or provide their kids with a true gifted program, not just helping out others.

You are advocating using the poor to keep the NEA in power. Great job.

 

[Mr.Conley]

And your high school was in the inner city or a rural area in a non-populous state? Your parents income was less than $20k in today's dollars for a family of 4? Wow, you were lucky to have all those AP courses offered. In Chicago, that's just not happening. Oh the Latin School, sure. University of Chicago Lab school, ditto. A good handful of the Catholic high schools too. Now where I live, kids also have the AP option, and some other college level options. But then again, the avg income for the school district today is: $88,694

They don't have APs in Chicago public schools!?!?!!?!

 

[Annie]

They don't have APs in Chicago public schools!?!?!!?!

Very few, mostly the Charter or Magnets. Problems with both kids being able and teachers qualified to teach the curriculum. While it's not a requirement that teachers have master's, it is college level materials, so you need to have the broad base of knowledge for the kinds of deeper thinking the kids should be generating.

I qualify for social studies related AP because of 3 BA degrees, thus bringing two disciplines to the one that I would be teaching. I can incorporate pol. sci and sociology to history for instance. I'm also endorsed in geography. It makes it easier for the connections to be made and discussion to deepen.

In Chicago there is a requirement that you live in the city. There are real problems for highly qualified teachers, unless their spouse makes a very good income, to find safe and affordable housing. Most do not want their own kids in Chicago Public Schools, so guess what? They are teaching in the suburbs.

 

[Mr.Conley]

Very few, mostly the Charter or Magnets. Problems with both kids being able and teachers qualified to teach the curriculum. While it's not a requirement that teachers have master's, it is college level materials, so you need to have the broad base of knowledge for the kinds of deeper thinking the kids should be generating.

That's very sad.

I qualify for social studies related AP because of 3 BA degrees, thus bringing two disciplines to the one that I would be teaching. I can incorporate pol. sci and sociology to history for instance. I'm also endorsed in geography. It makes it easier for the connections to be made and discussion to deepen.

Have you ever taught an AP class?

In Chicago there is a requirement that you live in the city. There are real problems for highly qualified teachers, unless their spouse makes a very good income, to find safe and affordable housing. Most do not want their own kids in Chicago Public Schools, so guess what? They are teaching in the suburbs.

hmhmhm... New Orleans has the same deal... only with the police.