Educate the LayPeople

[WillowTree]

Regarding the Fireman's test in Conn. What was it about the test that made it disparate??

I sure it must have involved.. firefighting and rescue procedures,, and policy.. and possibly some management questions. So what was it about this test that was illegal.. as in a black man could not pass it but a white man could.. I don't get it..

Ricci v. Destefano.

 

[Nik]

Regarding the Fireman's test in Conn. What was it about the test that made it disparate??

I sure it must have involved.. firefighting and rescue procedures,, and policy.. and possibly some management questions. So what was it about this test that was illegal.. as in a black man could not pass it but a white man could.. I don't get it..

Ricci v. Destefano.

Don't know. Care to explain to us why no blacks and only 2 of 50 minorities passed it?

Title VII makes results like that illegal. Do you think Sotomayer should have followed what the law said, or no?

 

[WillowTree]

Regarding the Fireman's test in Conn. What was it about the test that made it disparate??

I sure it must have involved.. firefighting and rescue procedures,, and policy.. and possibly some management questions. So what was it about this test that was illegal.. as in a black man could not pass it but a white man could.. I don't get it..

Ricci v. Destefano.

Don't know. Care to explain to us why no blacks and only 2 of 50 minorities passed it?

Title VII makes results like that illegal. Do you think Sotomayer should have followed what the law said, or no?

I cannot answer the question until I know why they ruled the test illegal.. Right now it looks like the people who passed it prepared for it.. what I am asking is what was it about the test that made it impossible for blacks to prepare and to pass it???? what is Title VII?

 

[DiamondDave]

Regarding the Fireman's test in Conn. What was it about the test that made it disparate??

I sure it must have involved.. firefighting and rescue procedures,, and policy.. and possibly some management questions. So what was it about this test that was illegal.. as in a black man could not pass it but a white man could.. I don't get it..

Ricci v. Destefano.

Don't know. Care to explain to us why no blacks and only 2 of 50 minorities passed it?

Title VII makes results like that illegal. Do you think Sotomayer should have followed what the law said, or no?

Results do not make a test illegal.. Results that would be as a result of typecasting by race on purpose would be illegal... results based on actual performance or knowledge needed to perform the job, irregardless if only X amount of whatever race, would be just fine

 

[WillowTree]

seems to me the things that would make a test illegal would be a "different or difficult language" I think this one was in English but a Hispanic passed it.. Every one on the firefighting team should be able to answer questions related to policy and procedure.. and probably questions related to law and ethics.. so what was it that made this particular test illegal.. other than the fact that the black firemen did not put forth to effort to prepare for and pass the test.

 

[Vel]

Regarding the Fireman's test in Conn. What was it about the test that made it disparate??

I sure it must have involved.. firefighting and rescue procedures,, and policy.. and possibly some management questions. So what was it about this test that was illegal.. as in a black man could not pass it but a white man could.. I don't get it..

Ricci v. Destefano.

Don't know. Care to explain to us why no blacks and only 2 of 50 minorities passed it?

Title VII makes results like that illegal. Do you think Sotomayer should have followed what the law said, or no?

In case you hadn't noticed, the reason that this case is up for appeal is the need to clarify exactly what VII means. It is my personal opinion that Title VII has been poorly interpreted. Unless someone can prove that the test itself had a racial bias that made it difficult for minorities to pass it, and the test is deemed to be on topics that you would expect a qualified firefighter to know, then those that studied and passed the test should receive their promotions.

 

[Ravi]

If you read this link you might have a clue.

Supreme Court Hears Firefighter Promotion Case : NPR

On the one hand you seem to be against forcing employers to hire certain groups yet here you are seemingly wanting to force the employer's hand.

 

[Nik]

Regarding the Fireman's test in Conn. What was it about the test that made it disparate??

I sure it must have involved.. firefighting and rescue procedures,, and policy.. and possibly some management questions. So what was it about this test that was illegal.. as in a black man could not pass it but a white man could.. I don't get it..

Ricci v. Destefano.

Don't know. Care to explain to us why no blacks and only 2 of 50 minorities passed it?

Title VII makes results like that illegal. Do you think Sotomayer should have followed what the law said, or no?

Results do not make a test illegal.. Results that would be as a result of typecasting by race on purpose would be illegal... results based on actual performance or knowledge needed to perform the job, irregardless if only X amount of whatever race, would be just fine

Actually results do make a test illegal. This is because there is a presumption that blacks aren't systematically more stupid/less qualified than whites. Do you have some issue with this presumption?

 

[Nik]

seems to me the things that would make a test illegal would be a "different or difficult language" I think this one was in English but a Hispanic passed it.. Every one on the firefighting team should be able to answer questions related to policy and procedure.. and probably questions related to law and ethics.. so what was it that made this particular test illegal.. other than the fact that the black firemen did not put forth to effort to prepare for and pass the test.

You know that for a fact? Care to provide any evidence for that fact?

 

[WillowTree]

If you read this link you might have a clue.

Supreme Court Hears Firefighter Promotion Case : NPR

On the one hand you seem to be against forcing employers to hire certain groups yet here you are seemingly wanting to force the employer's hand.

okay, I'm reading and it says




After five days of hearings, the board decided the exam was flawed.



that's what I'm trying to find out.. How was the exam flawed???

 

[del]

Don't know. Care to explain to us why no blacks and only 2 of 50 minorities passed it?

Title VII makes results like that illegal. Do you think Sotomayer should have followed what the law said, or no?

Results do not make a test illegal.. Results that would be as a result of typecasting by race on purpose would be illegal... results based on actual performance or knowledge needed to perform the job, irregardless if only X amount of whatever race, would be just fine

Actually results do make a test illegal. This is because there is a presumption that blacks aren't systematically more stupid/less qualified than whites. Do you have some issue with this presumption?

the make up of the test may make it illegal, the results can't.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Regarding the Fireman's test in Conn. What was it about the test that made it disparate??

I sure it must have involved.. firefighting and rescue procedures,, and policy.. and possibly some management questions. So what was it about this test that was illegal.. as in a black man could not pass it but a white man could.. I don't get it..

Ricci v. Destefano.

Don't know. Care to explain to us why no blacks and only 2 of 50 minorities passed it?

Title VII makes results like that illegal. Do you think Sotomayer should have followed what the law said, or no?

There is more at issue than just the test. Part of what is at issue is the city's response to the outcome of the test. This is going to be more important than the actual test in the final outcome of the case.

 

[Ravi]

If you read this link you might have a clue.

Supreme Court Hears Firefighter Promotion Case : NPR

On the one hand you seem to be against forcing employers to hire certain groups yet here you are seemingly wanting to force the employer's hand.

okay, I'm reading and it says




After five days of hearings, the board decided the exam was flawed.



that's what I'm trying to find out.. How was the exam flawed???

Keep reading. You'll figure it out.

 

[WillowTree]

If you read this link you might have a clue.

Supreme Court Hears Firefighter Promotion Case : NPR

On the one hand you seem to be against forcing employers to hire certain groups yet here you are seemingly wanting to force the employer's hand.

okay, I'm reading and it says




After five days of hearings, the board decided the exam was flawed.



that's what I'm trying to find out.. How was the exam flawed???

Keep reading. You'll figure it out.

other than the part that some people aren't good at taking tests! what else???

 

[Nik]

Results do not make a test illegal.. Results that would be as a result of typecasting by race on purpose would be illegal... results based on actual performance or knowledge needed to perform the job, irregardless if only X amount of whatever race, would be just fine

Actually results do make a test illegal. This is because there is a presumption that blacks aren't systematically more stupid/less qualified than whites. Do you have some issue with this presumption?

the make up of the test may make it illegal, the results can't.

The results can be enough to prove that the make up was illegal.

 

[del]

Actually results do make a test illegal. This is because there is a presumption that blacks aren't systematically more stupid/less qualified than whites. Do you have some issue with this presumption?

the make up of the test may make it illegal, the results can't.

The results can be enough to prove that the make up was illegal.

good luck with that.

 

[Nik]

Regarding the Fireman's test in Conn. What was it about the test that made it disparate??

I sure it must have involved.. firefighting and rescue procedures,, and policy.. and possibly some management questions. So what was it about this test that was illegal.. as in a black man could not pass it but a white man could.. I don't get it..

Ricci v. Destefano.

Don't know. Care to explain to us why no blacks and only 2 of 50 minorities passed it?

Title VII makes results like that illegal. Do you think Sotomayer should have followed what the law said, or no?

There is more at issue than just the test. Part of what is at issue is the city's response to the outcome of the test. This is going to be more important than the actual test in the final outcome of the case.

Yeah, but its unclear what else the city could have done. They were in a bit of a bind there.

 

[Nik]

the make up of the test may make it illegal, the results can't.

The results can be enough to prove that the make up was illegal.

good luck with that.

Umm, its currently the law today. I don't really need any luck with it, but thanks for your support.

 

[Nik]

okay, I'm reading and it says




After five days of hearings, the board decided the exam was flawed.



that's what I'm trying to find out.. How was the exam flawed???

Keep reading. You'll figure it out.

other than the part that blacks aren't good at taking tests! what else???

fixed it for you

 

[Tank]

Maybe on the average, blacks are not as smart as whites?