Doolittle's raid April 1942

[whitehall]

Was it worth all the trouble and planning and jeopardizing Halsey's fleet so early in the war? The raid was immortalized in the book "30 Seconds Over Tokyo" and later the movie by the same name. There was never any serious criticism of the raid and Doolittle and the surviving crew were treated like heroes. Halsey was probably a reluctant participant, When a Japanese picket boat was spotted and sunk by gunfire Halsey ordered the bombers to take off before the planned time and they were effectively doomed even if they could reach China. The raid killed about 50 Japanese and did little strategic damage. The official report raved about the effect the raid had on Japanese morale but that may have been an overstatement. It's likely that the raid caused the Japanese to tighten their defenses and pissed them off.

 

[Stryder50]

Was it worth all the trouble and planning and jeopardizing Halsey's fleet so early in the war? The raid was immortalized in the book "30 Seconds Over Tokyo" and later the movie by the same name. There was never any serious criticism of the raid and Doolittle and the surviving crew were treated like heroes. Halsey was probably a reluctant participant, When a Japanese picket boat was spotted and sunk by gunfire Halsey ordered the bombers to take off before the planned time and they were effectively doomed even if they could reach China. The raid killed about 50 Japanese and did little strategic damage. The official report raved about the effect the raid had on Japanese morale but that may have been an overstatement. It's likely that the raid caused the Japanese to tighten their defenses and pissed them off.

Your last sentence is one of the crucial benefits of the raid, causing the Japanese to haul back some of their forces for further defense of the Home Islands.

As for morale, it was a big boast to USA morale because we had struck back at Japan for Pearl Harbor.

A factor often unknown and overlooked is that in earlier 1941 when the USA authorized the American Volunteer Group(1st AVG) ("Flying Tigers") to help China in it's fight against Japan, plans were for a second and third AVG. The second* would be a bomber group, not fighter(pursuit), and plans were to use it(bombers) against Japan's home islands, including use of incendiary bombing of the "paper" cities.

* Third AVG would be another fighter/pursuit group.

As it played out, the 1st AVG had completed training in the China theater about the time of the Pearl Harbor attack and had it's first battle against Japanese air forces about Dec. 20-22, 1941.

 

[whitehall]

Your last sentence is one of the crucial benefits of the raid, causing the Japanese to haul back some of their forces for further defense of the Home Islands.

As for morale, it was a big boast to USA morale because we had struck back at Japan for Pearl Harbor.

A factor often unknown and overlooked is that in earlier 1941 when the USA authorized the American Volunteer Group(1st AVG) ("Flying Tigers") to help China in it's fight against Japan, plans were for a second and third AVG. The second* would be a bomber group, not fighter(pursuit), and plans were to use it(bombers) against Japan's home islands, including use of incendiary bombing of the "paper" cities.

* Third AVG would be another fighter/pursuit group.

As it played out, the 1st AVG had completed training in the China theater about the time of the Pearl Harbor attack and had it's first battle against Japanese air forces about Dec. 20-22, 1941.

The argument is noted but it was so early in the Pacific War that the strategic effect was negligible and the morale effect in the U.S. was short lived. Looking back it seems like a cheap stunt.

 

[Stryder50]

For those interested in knowing more facts and details about this mission;

Doolittle Raid - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[whitehall]

For those interested in knowing more facts and details about this mission;

Doolittle Raid - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The victors write the history books and Wiki writes whatever they say. Americans should be educated enough to get beyond Wiki and discuss hundred year old issues like they discuss the Civil War but maybe not.

 

[DudleySmith]

Your last sentence is one of the crucial benefits of the raid, causing the Japanese to haul back some of their forces for further defense of the Home Islands.

As for morale, it was a big boast to USA morale because we had struck back at Japan for Pearl Harbor.

A factor often unknown and overlooked is that in earlier 1941 when the USA authorized the American Volunteer Group(1st AVG) ("Flying Tigers") to help China in it's fight against Japan, plans were for a second and third AVG. The second* would be a bomber group, not fighter(pursuit), and plans were to use it(bombers) against Japan's home islands, including use of incendiary bombing of the "paper" cities.

* Third AVG would be another fighter/pursuit group.

As it played out, the 1st AVG had completed training in the China theater about the time of the Pearl Harbor attack and had it's first battle against Japanese air forces about Dec. 20-22, 1941.

It was great for morale. Whitehall misses the blatantly obvious in a lot of real life stuff.

 

[whitehall]

It was great for morale. Whitehall misses the blatantly obvious in a lot of real life stuff.

The media became the propaganda arm of the FDR administration right after the "The Day of Infamy". the FDR administration partnered with the media to portray good news when the news was dismal. Bataan and Corrigador surrendered in April 1942 and Doolittle's "raid " in April 1942 was a propaganda stunt to deflect attention.

 

[Stryder50]

Another place some might want to go to for some real information and realistic perspectives;
Carrier Aviation ~ 100 years of USA/USN Traditions; 1922-2022

 

[DudleySmith]

The media became the propaganda arm of the FDR administration right after the "The Day of Infamy". the FDR administration partnered with the media to portray good news when the news was dismal. Bataan and Corrigador surrendered in April 1942 and Doolittle's "raid " in April 1942 was a propaganda stunt to deflect attention.

It shocked the Japanese and dented their 'Master Race' fantasy no end. They then began making more mistakes and serious ones. They then should have focused on withdrawing from many of their conquests, they were too strung out, but they simply upped the ante in the opposite direction, hoping to bully their way out of failure. They doubled down on Stupid, same as most batshit crazy ideologues always do.

In the meantime, MacArthur got away with being extremely incompetent and losing his bomber fleet to a very unsurprising Japanese air attack.

 

[BS Filter]

The raid was important for American morale. We had to strike back. How much damage we did wasn't important.

 

[Unkotare]

For those interested in knowing more facts and details about this mission;

Doolittle Raid - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Wikipedia? Really?

 

[Zincwarrior]

Was it worth all the trouble and planning and jeopardizing Halsey's fleet so early in the war? The raid was immortalized in the book "30 Seconds Over Tokyo" and later the movie by the same name. There was never any serious criticism of the raid and Doolittle and the surviving crew were treated like heroes. Halsey was probably a reluctant participant, When a Japanese picket boat was spotted and sunk by gunfire Halsey ordered the bombers to take off before the planned time and they were effectively doomed even if they could reach China. The raid killed about 50 Japanese and did little strategic damage. The official report raved about the effect the raid had on Japanese morale but that may have been an overstatement. It's likely that the raid caused the Japanese to tighten their defenses and pissed them off.

The raid was a major driver for the Midway operation later and I think (but could be mistaken) pushing down the Solomons down to Guadalcanal.

Here's an interesting butterfly. Because Enterprise and Hornet were on the raid they missed the Battle of the Coral Sea. With four carriers instead of two they would have had substantial superiority to the Japanese carrier groups. While the USN stopped the Japanese from their invasion, they lost the Lexington. In this scenario, they might have hammered the IJN without taking losses, thus setting up for an even stronger USN at Midway and later.

 

[Stryder50]

Wikipedia? Really?

Check the references of the link, and the text.
If you have a more "acceptable" source, present it.
Any G2/S2 worth their staff slot knows to avoid "source bias".

 

[Unkotare]

Check the references of the link, and the text.
If you have a more "acceptable" source, present it.
Any G2/S2 worth their staff slot knows to avoid "source bias".

Whoa, what a great scholar we got here! I mean, Wikipedia!!

 

[Stryder50]

The raid was a major driver for the Midway operation later and I think (but could be mistaken) pushing down the Solomons down to Guadalcanal.

Here's an interesting butterfly. Because Enterprise and Hornet were on the raid they missed the Battle of the Coral Sea. With four carriers instead of two they would have had substantial superiority to the Japanese carrier groups. While the USN stopped the Japanese from their invasion, they lost the Lexington. In this scenario, they might have hammered the IJN without taking losses, thus setting up for an even stronger USN at Midway and later.

Oh no! Wiki again.
But it makes a good start point for those with low information on the subject(s). See the references at the bottom for other sources to consult.

Battle of the Coral Sea - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

BTW, Hornet and Enterprise were in route to Coarl Sea area just after launching Doolittle Raiders, but the fracas there was over by the time they could arrive.

 

[Stryder50]

Whoa, what a great scholar we got here! I mean, Wikipedia!!

And I mean(challenge), if you have better, present it.
Any idiot can bitch and complain on "source" when they have no alternative substance to present.

 

[Stryder50]

The victors write the history books and Wiki writes whatever they say. Americans should be educated enough to get beyond Wiki and discuss hundred year old issues like they discuss the Civil War but maybe not.

Losers also write their history books, and Wiki presents what others write for it. The clue here is see if they will accept you and your view to add to their edit.

 

[Stryder50]

The media became the propaganda arm of the FDR administration right after the "The Day of Infamy". the FDR administration partnered with the media to portray good news when the news was dismal. Bataan and Corrigador surrendered in April 1942 and Doolittle's "raid " in April 1942 was a propaganda stunt to deflect attention.

"The Media" had been a "propaganda arm of the FDR Administration" years earlier with the New Deal, and also with his "Lend-Lease" program.

Doolittle Raid was hatched, planned, and trained for a few months prior to execution, wasn't a hasty stunt as you suggest.

Among other factors, the bulk of USN Pacific battle fleet on the floor of Pearl Harbor was a major clue the USA wouldn't be able to sortie to the Philippines and counter Japan's attacks there.

 

[Unkotare]

And I mean(challenge), if you have better, present it.
Any idiot can bitch and complain on "source" when they have no alternative substance to present.

I'm having a little trouble uploading my coloring book. I realize it is much more of a serious source than Wiki, but it shouldn't be this difficult.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Well this thread got weird in a hurry.

Doolittle forced multiple fighter groups to be retained in Japan, earlier then they would have been. It added pressure for multiple operations by the Japanese almost simultaneously. Inversely while Coral Sea gave Fletcher and the USN valuable experience they could use in Midway. Luck being what it is, there's nothing to say the US might have lost more carriers at Coral Sea had they been present.

The negatives were caused by Japan. Murdering several crewmen, and frankly going berserk in China, Estimates are up to 250,000 Chinese died as a result of Japanese reprisals.
The Doolittle Raiders | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans.

alternatively:

CHINA PAID PRICEFOR DOOLITTLE RAID

www.orlandosentinel.com

According to Claire L. Chennault in Way of a Fighter, "A quarter-million Chinese soldiers and civilians were killed in the three-month campaign." Chinese people paid for the Doolittle Raid with 250,000 lives, which was more than 25 times the Allied forces' casualties (9,758) on D-Day.