Don’t Go To College !

[postman]

Shit I hired a civil engineering student who couldn't understand how to frame a wall. He lasted all of a week.

Maybe not, but he could calculate the load being carried by that wall and investigate alternative methods to carry that load

He confuses application knowledge, with education. They don't teach building codes in college, but as you pointed out, given the specifications of the wall, i'm sure he could figure out the most efficient method of constructing it.

 

[rightwinger]

But in the end, that well rounded education makes you suitable for a wide range of jobs, and not just the single "tech" field you learn in trade school. After all, look how many people learned typesetting, or COBOL thinking they had a bright future.

I spent a career in Engineering and the ability to crunch numbers only got you so far.
You need to be able to write coherently, speak in other than geek mode, you need to be able to interrelate with others and work as a team.

 

[postman]

I spent a career in Engineering and the ability to crunch numbers only got you so far.
You need to be able to write coherently, speak in other than geek mode, you need to be able to interrelate with others and work as a team.

You also have to be able to think outside the box. And most importantly to understand all the parameters of a problem. For example one engineer figured out where to put apiece of equipment based on the floor loading, and location to promote proper work flow. The problem was he forgot to look up. Because he spec'ed it to be under an inspection gallery, which would interfere with it as it operated.

 

[Synthaholic]

College is filled with professors, or 'experts', in a chosen discipline.

Wingnuts reject the concept of experts and embrace a Cult of Inferiority

 

[DrLove]

Despite her years of learning, she has never learned to differentiate credible sources from propaganda.

She probably spent her classroom hours reading Gateway Pundit, Infowars & LifeNews

 

[PoliticalChic]

Internships and Co-ops are important

What would be a way to getting out of college without the huge debt that ensues....????

Such as these choices.


1. Work Study Programs

2. Work your way through

3. Work at a job where your major will be paid by the job

4. Night school

5. Community College, then transfer

6. ROTC will pay a full scholarship

7. Take eight years….ever hear of anyone asking ‘how much time you spent in college..?’


And a very careful analysis of one's major.
Very careful







1. The conservative way, personal responsibility:

2. The College of the Ozarks — a four-year college since 1965, and rated No. 30 by U.S. News and World Report among Midwestern colleges offering both liberal arts and professional degrees — is one of seven so-called work colleges. Six describe themselves as Christian institutions and often, like Ozarks, are socially and politically conservative.

3. Like many undergraduates, students at the College of the Ozarks here work their way through school, though they often do such unconventional campus jobs as milking cows at dawn in the college’s barns and baking fruit breads for sale to donors.


4. But what is truly different about Hard Work U. — as the college styles itself — is that all 1,345 students must work 15 hours per week to pay off the entire cost of tuition — $15,900 per year. If they work summers, as one-third are doing this summer, they pay off their $4,400 room and board as well. Work study is not an option as it is at most campuses; it is the college’s raison d’être.

5. This is a college that is philosophically opposed to students starting careers with an Ozark mountain of debt — 95 percent graduate debt free — and it believes that students who put sweat equity into their education value it more.

 

[DrLove]

Can you imagine having to deal with that twit in real life?

No - You’d have to pay me a hundred grand to spend one hour in a room with PC.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Engineering has almost twice as many liberals teaching it as conservatives
And math has almost 6 times as many liberals teaching it as conservatives.

In short. Conservatives don't have the academic background to teach much. Is that your point?

"Engineering has almost twice as many liberals teaching it as conservatives
And math has almost 6 times as many liberals teaching it as conservatives."


I guess we just explained your Biden vote.


I've seen your posts, so I know you're a moron.....but you can't read a chart?????

 

[PoliticalChic]

Engineering has almost twice as many liberals teaching it as conservatives
And math has almost 6 times as many liberals teaching it as conservatives.

In short. Conservatives don't have the academic background to teach much. Is that your point?

"Conservatives don't have the academic background to teach much. Is that your point?"

Have you seen the academic achievement stats of ed majors?

They're like yours.


“At many large universities with an undergraduate college of education, the education school is regarded by students and faculty alike as the weak link, sometimes something of an embarrassment. None of the top dozen or so universities in rankings compiled by magazines like US News or Forbes typically even has an undergraduate ed school, in contrast to lots of institutions among the lowest ranked universities that were originally "normal schools" that even now have large education colleges.

An important new study of literally thousands of teacher prep programs from the National Council on Teacher Quality (NCTQ) suggests the campus indictments of education schools are very justified.

The students majoring in education are below average academically, with relatively low test scores and high school rank. They often have so-so preparation in the subject matter they are going to teach.
Relatively weak students are given a non-rigorous course of study but earn very high grades.” https://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2013/07/08/The-Alarming-Truth-About-Education-Majors

 

[DrLove]

I often say that a music degree simply makes you more intolerant of musicians who don't have music degrees...

It depends on the type of musician a person wants to be. Pop/ blues/ rock/ folk/ bluegrass etc no you don’t need Juilliard. If one wants to be a classical musician, it would be wise.

 

[DrLove]

PoliticalChic
You lost me at “the brilliant Ann Coulter”

 

[j-mac]

We need trades in this country....

 

[PoliticalChic]

Colleges give a well rounded education. No matter what field, you have to take other courses as well. I constantly hear English majors complain about having to take math, and math majors complain about having to take English.

But in the end, that well rounded education makes you suitable for a wide range of jobs, and not just the single "tech" field you learn in trade school. After all, look how many people learned typesetting, or COBOL thinking they had a bright future.

And once again we find that truth is always the very opposite of what you write.

“The Dumbest Generation”​

“To Mark Bauerlein, a professor of English at Emory University, the present is a good time to be young only if you don't mind a tendency toward empty-headedness. In "The Dumbest Generation," he argues that cultural and technological forces, far from opening up an exciting new world of learning and thinking, have conspired to create a level of public ignorance so high as to threaten our democracy.

If the new hours in front of the computer were subtracting from television time, there might be something encouraging to say about the increasingly interactive quality of youthful diversions. The facts, at least as Mr. Bauerlein marshals them, show otherwise: TV viewing is constant. The printed word has paid a price – from 1981 to 2003, the leisure reading of 15- to 17-year-olds fell to seven minutes a day from 18. But the real action has been in multitasking. By 2003, children were cramming an average of 8½ hours of media consumption a day into just 6½ hours – watching TV while surfing the Web, reading while listening to music, composing text messages while watching a movie.

This daily media binge isn't making students smarter. The National Assessment of Educational Progress has pegged 46% of 12th-graders below the "basic" level of proficiency in science, while only 2% are qualified as "advanced." Likewise in the political arena: Participatory Web sites may give young people a "voice," but their command of the facts is shaky. Forty-six percent of high-school seniors say it's " 'very important' to be an active and informed citizen," but only 26% are rated as proficient in civics. Between 1992 and 2005, the NAEP reported, 12th-grade reading skills dropped dramatically. (As for writing, Naomi Baron, in her recent book, "Always On: Language in an Online and Mobile World," cites the NAEP to note that "only 24% of twelfth-graders are 'capable of composing organized, coherent prose in clear language with correct spelling and grammar.' ") Conversation is affected, too. Mr. Bauerlein sums up part of the problem: "The verbal values of adulthood and adolescence clash, and to enter adult conditions, individuals must leave the verbal mores of high school behind. The screen blocks the ascent."

What frustrates Mr. Bauerlein is not these deficits themselves – it's the way a blind celebration of youth, and an ill-informed optimism about technology, have led the public to ignore them. "Over and over," he writes, "commentators stress the mental advance, the learning side over the fun and fantasy side." Steven Johnson, in his best-selling "Everything Bad Is Good for You," describes videogames as "a kind of cognitive workout." Jonathan Fanton of the MacArthur Foundation writes that children have created "communities the size of nations" where they explore "new techniques for personal expression." Such assessments, Mr. Bauerlein argues, are far too charitable.

Mr. Bauerlein contrasts such "evidence-lite enthusiasm" for digital technologies with a weightier learning tradition. He eulogizes New York's City College in the mid-20th century, a book-centered, debate-fostering place where a generation of intellectuals rejected the "sovereignty of youth" in favor of the concerted study of canonical texts and big ideas."

From Bookshelf- book review in the May 13, 2008 Wall Street Journal

 

[Blues Man]

Very true
Shows College is not just a rubber stamp
Takes a commitment to graduate. Many don’t have it.

Which is why the everyone has to go to college mantra is pure bullshit

 

[rightwinger]

Which is why the everyone has to go to college mantra is pure bullshit

Never said everyone should go to college
For some, Trade School is a better option

Some can’t cut it at either

 

[Blues Man]

Very few most likely and those that don't have that knowledge understand how to get it in like 5 minutes

Why would you expect him to? Take the average High School senior and he won't either

Gee I figured it out all by myself and I dropped out of HS and never got a college degree.

I taught myself how to do just about everything needed to build a house except for HVAC.

I did take lots of courses that would have a direct application to the work I was doing and didn't waste my time on some degree program with all kinds of extraneous crap.

 

[postman]

"Engineering has almost twice as many liberals teaching it as conservatives
And math has almost 6 times as many liberals teaching it as conservatives."

I've seen your posts, so I know you're a moron.....but you can't read a chart?????

You didn't explain what the chart represented, since it doesn't have a legend.

So those ratios either represent those teaching, or those learning. And neither bodes well, since if i'm wrong about how I first read the chart it means that liberals learn math and science at nearly 6 times the rate of conservatives.

No wonder you're against college. All the smart kids were liberals.

 

[Blues Man]

Never said everyone should go to college
For some, Trade School is a better option

Some can’t cut it at either

LEarning on the job is better than trade school

 

[danielpalos]

...when you can find college level courses online!

 

[postman]

LEarning on the job is better than trade school

The problem is many employers don't want to spend a lot of money training somebody, only to have them use those skills to find a better job elsewhere.