Donald Trump might go down in history as the greatest president of all time

there4eyeM

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While possible that Trump will go down in history, he is currently probably as low as he will go. Difficult to get under "W".
Actually, W looks positively dignified compared to Trump.

W managed to win a second term.
W the highest unemployment got was 7.8%. Trump hit 14.3%.
W was able to work with Democrats to get stuff done. Trump couldn't even get stuff done when Republicans controlled congress.

W was an awful president, but he was actually kind of a decent human being who wasn't up to the job.

Trump is an awful human being to his very core, and his rotten, corrupt presidency will be remember for that.
Difficult to take this seriously. The absolutely catastrophic and un-American, immoral, illegal Iraq debacle outweighs anything Trump did. Add to that the economic debacle, somewhat resulting from the aforementioned crime, adds to the infamy of the 'Bushleague'.
I can understand not liking Trump (I don't understand how anyone could), but his supporters have a point when they say that unbridled hatred of him has led to absurd hyperbole.
 

JoeB131

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The US economy was/is is far better shape after COVID that Europe, despite the looney left locking everything down.

Only ignorant morons will remember Trump for having policies that hurt the economy. It doesn’t surprise me that you are in that camp.
Actually, Trump is not going to be well-regarded at all.. the fact so many Republicans are trying to put daylight between him and them is telling.
 

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Difficult to take this seriously. The absolutely catastrophic and un-American, immoral, illegal Iraq debacle outweighs anything Trump did. Add to that the economic debacle, somewhat resulting from the aforementioned crime, adds to the infamy of the 'Bushleague'.
I can understand not liking Trump (I don't understand how anyone could), but his supporters have a point when they say that unbridled hatred of him has led to absurd hyperbole.
I'm a metrics guy... By any metric, Unemployment, GDP growth, etc. Bush comes off slightly better than Trump.

Yes, Iraq was a fuckup, but it would be foolish to put the whole mess on him. Most of his own party and about half the Democrats went along with it. Everyone was just convinced Saddam had WMD's. I think if Gore had won in 2000, we'd have still ended up going to war with Iraq.
 

there4eyeM

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Difficult to take this seriously. The absolutely catastrophic and un-American, immoral, illegal Iraq debacle outweighs anything Trump did. Add to that the economic debacle, somewhat resulting from the aforementioned crime, adds to the infamy of the 'Bushleague'.
I can understand not liking Trump (I don't understand how anyone could), but his supporters have a point when they say that unbridled hatred of him has led to absurd hyperbole.
I'm a metrics guy... By any metric, Unemployment, GDP growth, etc. Bush comes off slightly better than Trump.

Yes, Iraq was a fuckup, but it would be foolish to put the whole mess on him. Most of his own party and about half the Democrats went along with it. Everyone was just convinced Saddam had WMD's. I think if Gore had won in 2000, we'd have still ended up going to war with Iraq.
There are others guilty with Bush. All who voted for it in Congress share the shame. This is one of the greatest indictments of the duopoly. This and other of its crimes get covered over and forgotten. It even offers these criminals as candidates for the highest office. That is a measure, a "metric", that must surely lead to our rejecting this cohort of criminals.
 

Smokin' OP

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Difficult to take this seriously. The absolutely catastrophic and un-American, immoral, illegal Iraq debacle outweighs anything Trump did. Add to that the economic debacle, somewhat resulting from the aforementioned crime, adds to the infamy of the 'Bushleague'.
I can understand not liking Trump (I don't understand how anyone could), but his supporters have a point when they say that unbridled hatred of him has led to absurd hyperbole.
I'm a metrics guy... By any metric, Unemployment, GDP growth, etc. Bush comes off slightly better than Trump.

Yes, Iraq was a fuckup, but it would be foolish to put the whole mess on him. Most of his own party and about half the Democrats went along with it. Everyone was just convinced Saddam had WMD's. I think if Gore had won in 2000, we'd have still ended up going to war with Iraq.
There are others guilty with Bush. All who voted for it in Congress share the shame. This is one of the greatest indictments of the duopoly. This and other of its crimes get covered over and forgotten. It even offers these criminals as candidates for the highest office. That is a measure, a "metric", that must surely lead to our rejecting this cohort of criminals.
No, they shouldn't.
Congress were LIED to by Bush's "intelligence" agencies, Cheney coordinated most of it and Bush sold it, along with FOX.
 

Smokin' OP

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While possible that Trump will go down in history, he is currently probably as low as he will go. Difficult to get under "W".
Actually, W looks positively dignified compared to Trump.

W managed to win a second term.
W the highest unemployment got was 7.8%. Trump hit 14.3%.
W was able to work with Democrats to get stuff done. Trump couldn't even get stuff done when Republicans controlled congress.

W was an awful president, but he was actually kind of a decent human being who wasn't up to the job.

Trump is an awful human being to his very core, and his rotten, corrupt presidency will be remember for that.
Difficult to take this seriously. The absolutely catastrophic and un-American, immoral, illegal Iraq debacle outweighs anything Trump did. Add to that the economic debacle, somewhat resulting from the aforementioned crime, adds to the infamy of the 'Bushleague'.
I can understand not liking Trump (I don't understand how anyone could), but his supporters have a point when they say that unbridled hatred of him has led to absurd hyperbole.
Dotard is easy to hate for normal people, he is a lying, blowhard, secretive, criminal.
That's even before he fooled gullible, idiots into voting for him.
What's to like, he didn't lift a finger to do anything but cover his ass last year.
A POS.
 

JoeB131

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There are others guilty with Bush. All who voted for it in Congress share the shame. This is one of the greatest indictments of the duopoly. This and other of its crimes get covered over and forgotten. It even offers these criminals as candidates for the highest office. That is a measure, a "metric", that must surely lead to our rejecting this cohort of criminals.
Oh, please. I will be the first to agree that our politicians are out of touch with the people, which is one of the reasons we got Trump as a big Fuck You from the electorate to both parties.

But Iraq was something that was immensely popular until it wasn't. Democrats got voted out of office in 2002 for not being enthusiastically behind the war. Max Cleland was demonized for not supporting Bush enthusiastically enough- a man who lost three limbs in Vietnam.

Iraq is like almost every other war we've ever fought. After a while, we get tired of it. But yeah, let's blame the politicians for giving us what we want when we get bored with it.

No, they shouldn't.
Congress were LIED to by Bush's "intelligence" agencies, Cheney coordinated most of it and Bush sold it, along with FOX.
Actually, so did the rest of the media, initially. Come on, get real, we spent a decade demonizing Saddam before the war, and everyone's initial go to after 9/11 was "Saddam Did It". Yes, Bush deserves a lot of condemnation for his lack of leadership and poor judgement, but let's look at ourselves. Anti-War was a bad look in 2002. Pro War was a bad look in 2006. John Kerry couldn't even bring himself to condemn the war itself in 2004, he tried to pass himself off as a War Hero who would lead us to victory...("shhhh...shhhh.. Go Away, Jane Fonda, I don't know you.")

Let's not forget, Lincoln Whitehouse, the only GOP Senator to vote against the War resolution, was voted out in 2006 in the anti-Republican wave, but Joe Leiberman (D-Israel) was sent back despite being the only guy in the Dem Caucus to still take his marching orders from Tel Aviv.
 

there4eyeM

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There are others guilty with Bush. All who voted for it in Congress share the shame. This is one of the greatest indictments of the duopoly. This and other of its crimes get covered over and forgotten. It even offers these criminals as candidates for the highest office. That is a measure, a "metric", that must surely lead to our rejecting this cohort of criminals.
Oh, please. I will be the first to agree that our politicians are out of touch with the people, which is one of the reasons we got Trump as a big Fuck You from the electorate to both parties.

But Iraq was something that was immensely popular until it wasn't. Democrats got voted out of office in 2002 for not being enthusiastically behind the war. Max Cleland was demonized for not supporting Bush enthusiastically enough- a man who lost three limbs in Vietnam.

Iraq is like almost every other war we've ever fought. After a while, we get tired of it. But yeah, let's blame the politicians for giving us what we want when we get bored with it.

No, they shouldn't.
Congress were LIED to by Bush's "intelligence" agencies, Cheney coordinated most of it and Bush sold it, along with FOX.
Actually, so did the rest of the media, initially. Come on, get real, we spent a decade demonizing Saddam before the war, and everyone's initial go to after 9/11 was "Saddam Did It". Yes, Bush deserves a lot of condemnation for his lack of leadership and poor judgement, but let's look at ourselves. Anti-War was a bad look in 2002. Pro War was a bad look in 2006. John Kerry couldn't even bring himself to condemn the war itself in 2004, he tried to pass himself off as a War Hero who would lead us to victory...("shhhh...shhhh.. Go Away, Jane Fonda, I don't know you.")

Let's not forget, Lincoln Whitehouse, the only GOP Senator to vote against the War resolution, was voted out in 2006 in the anti-Republican wave, but Joe Leiberman (D-Israel) was sent back despite being the only guy in the Dem Caucus to still take his marching orders from Tel Aviv.
The end of your post explains the cowardice of those who folded and voted for illegal action. Clinton and Biden were in the forefront of this lack of courage. There is no exonerating these people and all attempts at it are reprehensible. All those in Congress were probably at least as intelligent as I and certainly more educated in law and had the same information as I. Why did I and so many others know it was strategically insane in addition to being immoral and illegal?
 

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There are others guilty with Bush. All who voted for it in Congress share the shame. This is one of the greatest indictments of the duopoly. This and other of its crimes get covered over and forgotten. It even offers these criminals as candidates for the highest office. That is a measure, a "metric", that must surely lead to our rejecting this cohort of criminals.
Oh, please. I will be the first to agree that our politicians are out of touch with the people, which is one of the reasons we got Trump as a big Fuck You from the electorate to both parties.

But Iraq was something that was immensely popular until it wasn't. Democrats got voted out of office in 2002 for not being enthusiastically behind the war. Max Cleland was demonized for not supporting Bush enthusiastically enough- a man who lost three limbs in Vietnam.

Iraq is like almost every other war we've ever fought. After a while, we get tired of it. But yeah, let's blame the politicians for giving us what we want when we get bored with it.

No, they shouldn't.
Congress were LIED to by Bush's "intelligence" agencies, Cheney coordinated most of it and Bush sold it, along with FOX.
Actually, so did the rest of the media, initially. Come on, get real, we spent a decade demonizing Saddam before the war, and everyone's initial go to after 9/11 was "Saddam Did It". Yes, Bush deserves a lot of condemnation for his lack of leadership and poor judgement, but let's look at ourselves. Anti-War was a bad look in 2002. Pro War was a bad look in 2006. John Kerry couldn't even bring himself to condemn the war itself in 2004, he tried to pass himself off as a War Hero who would lead us to victory...("shhhh...shhhh.. Go Away, Jane Fonda, I don't know you.")

Let's not forget, Lincoln Whitehouse, the only GOP Senator to vote against the War resolution, was voted out in 2006 in the anti-Republican wave, but Joe Leiberman (D-Israel) was sent back despite being the only guy in the Dem Caucus to still take his marching orders from Tel Aviv.
Sure even daddy Bush went to war with Iraq, they talked of Saddam gassing his own people and other atrocities committed by him.

Bush and his regime never considered a war with Iraq until 9/11.

That gave him a reason to invade the wrong country.
 

JoeB131

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The end of your post explains the cowardice of those who folded and voted for illegal action. Clinton and Biden were in the forefront of this lack of courage. There is no exonerating these people and all attempts at it are reprehensible. All those in Congress were probably at least as intelligent as I and certainly more educated in law and had the same information as I. Why did I and so many others know it was strategically insane in addition to being immoral and illegal?
Mostly because most sensible people realize that Saddam Hussein was a really evil piece of shit and no one felt particularly bad for him because they got him for the one he didn't do.

I'm angry about the Iraq War because it was executed so badly. A lot of that is on the politicians, a lot of that is on the military leadership. (Then again, after 11 years in the army, that officers engage in collective stupidity is hardly a surprise.)

No one was willing to go out on a limb for Saddam, that was the thing. Kind of like all the lefties who travelled to Iraq to volunteer to be human shields, until the found out Saddam wanted to put them in places we were likely to bomb.

The Fault Lies not with the stars, but within ourselves. The politicians gave us exactly what we wanted, revenge.

That the revenge was on some of the wrong people really didn't matter to Americans who couldn't tell you the difference between a Sunni and a Shi'ite on a bet.
 

JoeB131

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Sure even daddy Bush went to war with Iraq, they talked of Saddam gassing his own people and other atrocities committed by him.

Bush and his regime never considered a war with Iraq until 9/11.

That gave him a reason to invade the wrong country.
As long as we are spreading blame around, when Bill Clinton indicted Osama Bin Laden in 1998, he mentioned his links to Iraq four times in the indictment. This wasn't to demonize Saddam, it was to make Bin Laden look more threatening. And when Clinton took military action against both Saddam and Bin Laden, Republicans accused him of "Wagging the Dog"

I go back to my original statement. As long as the Zionists and Oil Companies are dictating our middle east policies, we'll be over there fighting whoever they consider a threat.
 
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P@triot

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We've covered this. President Trump was the most accomplished President in US history. What makes that even more remarkable is that your sick party was trying to undermine him. Nobody accomplished more in less time than President Trump.
  • Record low unemployment (not a single job "lost")
Again, until Trump Recession hit, and we lost 65 million jobs.
Again, there was no “Trump Recession”. There was only your side (the Dumbocrats) shutting down the economy across the nation citing your side (communist China) unleashing a virus on the world as the justification.
 
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P@triot

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Except DNA didn't exonerate him. They couldn't test either his DNA nor the DNA of the Hemmings kids, so they tested relatives of both and found there was a genetic link.
Thank you, Joseph (Stalin). I always appreciate the opportunity to expose you as the liar that you are!
“Interestingly, the “striking resemblance” charge is still invoked today as “proof” that Jefferson fathered Hemings’ children, but since the recent DNA testing unequivocally proved that Sally’s son Tom was not the son of Thomas Jefferson, Callender’s allegations that Tom bore a “striking resemblance to the president himself” are completely meaningless.”
Facts matter. And the facts trump your lies every time!

5E8C7AA2-348E-4985-BAB4-AA53250B4CE0.jpeg



Excerpt from The Jefferson Lies (David Barton). This material may be protected by copyright.
 
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P@triot

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The constitution isn't a suicide pact. Saving the union and ending slavery were more important than a lot of empty ritual.
You’re right...it’s not a “pact” at all. It’s the law. It’s the highest law of the land. And only communist thugs advocate for breaking the law.
 
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P@triot

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Those things didn't happen until after he LEFT.

The Berlin Wall Came down in NOVEMBER 1989, 10 months after Reagan left office.

The USSR disbanded in December 1991, THREE YEARS after Reagan left office.

I always wonder why you guys don't give Poppy Bush the credit, but Poppy Bush raised taxes and did things conservatives didn't like.
Of course you “wonder”. You’re confused by subject matter that is beyond you. “Poppy Bush” didn’t have a U.S.S.R. doctrine because they had already been defeated. Since he had no policies for defeating the U.S.S.R. (like Reagan did), he doesn’t receive credit.

Can’t say I’m surprised that a leftist is confused why someone doesn’t get credit for not doing anything :laugh:
 
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P@triot

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Again, I realize you're young and weren't around in the 1980's... or you'd know this.
Hate to break it to you junior, but I was around for the entire 1980’s. Oh, and the 1970’s as well! :laugh:
 
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Actually, they certainly can. The economy in 1980 wasn't that bad. Inflation was high, but unemployment was only 7.8%. Reagan managed to run it up to 11.3%- INTENTIONALLY - as a weapon to fight inflation. We continued to shed manufacturing jobs under his watch. He tripled the national debt, wasted hundred of billions on weapon systems that didn't work.
The only thing that “sheds” jobs (especially manufacturing) is failed left-wing policies. Notice that all of those jobs went to places that have no unions (artificially inflating labor costs), no minimum wage (artificially inflating labor costs), and no “regulations” (artificially inflating business costs)?

You’re arguing failed left-wing talking points that were debunked 5 decades ago :eusa_doh:
 

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Again, there was no “Trump Recession”. There was only your side (the Dumbocrats) shutting down the economy across the nation citing your side (communist China) unleashing a virus on the world as the justification.
The economy was going into recession before Trump Plague hit because of his idiotic trade wars.


Even Fox News said so. Trump screwed up supply chains. Foreign countries cancelled purchases of American goods in response to his tariffs.

The only thing that “sheds” jobs (especially manufacturing) is failed left-wing policies. Notice that all of those jobs went to places that have no unions (artificially inflating labor costs), no minimum wage (artificially inflating labor costs), and no “regulations” (artificially inflating business costs)?
That's not true, either. Germany and Japan are kicking our asses in Manufacturing, and they have stronger unions and worker protections than we do. (Mostly because the New Dealers set up their governments after WWII and did all the things they couldn't do here.)

Now, if you worked in manufacturing, you'd know that the biggest decline in manufacturing jobs isn't outsourcing, it's automation and process improvement.

Hate to break it to you junior, but I was around for the entire 1980’s. Oh, and the 1970’s as well!
Nobody believes that... you have the life experience and maturity of a Millennial. Probably one that read Ayn Rand in High School and think that's how the world should work.

1614429344394.png


Of course you “wonder”. You’re confused by subject matter that is beyond you. “Poppy Bush” didn’t have a U.S.S.R. doctrine because they had already been defeated. Since he had no policies for defeating the U.S.S.R. (like Reagan did), he doesn’t receive credit.

Can’t say I’m surprised that a leftist is confused why someone doesn’t get credit for not doing anything
Reagan didn't do anything, either. That was the point.

The USSR fell for the same reason the British Empire fell. Because deep down, people don't like being ruled by foreigners, even if the foreigners are doing a better job than they would.

You’re right...it’s not a “pact” at all. It’s the law. It’s the highest law of the land. And only communist thugs advocate for breaking the law.
If we had listened to people like you, the Constitution wouldn't have mattered. The country would have broken up into several smaller states and would have been quickly dominated by the European Powers. Thank Goodness Lincoln didn't treat the constitution like a suicide pact. (The quote "the Constitution isn't a suicide pact" is often wrongly attributed to him.)

So thankfully, Lincoln crushed the South and ended slavery, and we are all better off for it today.
 

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The end of your post explains the cowardice of those who folded and voted for illegal action. Clinton and Biden were in the forefront of this lack of courage. There is no exonerating these people and all attempts at it are reprehensible. All those in Congress were probably at least as intelligent as I and certainly more educated in law and had the same information as I. Why did I and so many others know it was strategically insane in addition to being immoral and illegal?
Mostly because most sensible people realize that Saddam Hussein was a really evil piece of shit and no one felt particularly bad for him because they got him for the one he didn't do.

I'm angry about the Iraq War because it was executed so badly. A lot of that is on the politicians, a lot of that is on the military leadership. (Then again, after 11 years in the army, that officers engage in collective stupidity is hardly a surprise.)

No one was willing to go out on a limb for Saddam, that was the thing. Kind of like all the lefties who travelled to Iraq to volunteer to be human shields, until the found out Saddam wanted to put them in places we were likely to bomb.

The Fault Lies not with the stars, but within ourselves. The politicians gave us exactly what we wanted, revenge.

That the revenge was on some of the wrong people really didn't matter to Americans who couldn't tell you the difference between a Sunni and a Shi'ite on a bet.
They hanged Saddam for doing exactly what Churchill did in Iraq in 1920.
 

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BEHOLD Republicans
There once was a Republican president
He spent 4 years being a prick.

2 years in, the Repubs lost control of the House.

4 years in, that Repub president lost reelection.

And then the Repubs lost control of the Senate.

So this Repub president is a LOSER. 3 strikes and you're out!

But wait! Have the Repubs rid themselves of this loser? Have they relegated this loser to the dustbin of ugly history?

NO! Indeed, they've done the opposite!

Instead, they have created a golden idol with which to worship Him:

Behold!

A woman takes a photo with a golden Donald Trump statue at the Conservative Political Action (CPAC) conference on Friday, Feb. 26, 2021, in Orlando, Fla. (Sam Thomas/Orlando Sentinel via AP) ORG XMIT: FLORL801
 

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