Don t Let Anybody Tell You That Businesses Create Jobs

[OnePercenter]

Which "subsidies" are those? When a businesses deducts its electric bill, is that a "subsidy?"

Everything except state/local taxes and fees and employee expenses.

 

[bripat9643]

What is "5 years total capital?" Does that mean everything you'll spend for 5 years, include your employees wages? That would run into the millions of dollars even for a small business. Who do you think you're kidding?

Total capital.

Thanks for that totally useless answer. But then, why should I expect anything else from you?

I can't help it if you don't know the meaning of total capital.

You obviously don't either because you obviously can't explain it.

 

[bripat9643]

Which "subsidies" are those? When a businesses deducts its electric bill, is that a "subsidy?"

Everything except state/local taxes and fees and employee expenses.

So the food a restaurant buys won't be deductible? The electric bill? The bank loan?

Really?

 

[OnePercenter]

So the food a restaurant buys won't be deductible? The electric bill? The bank loan?

Really?

Run the numbers.

 

[bripat9643]

So the food a restaurant buys won't be deductible? The electric bill? The bank loan?

Really?

Run the numbers.

You realize, of course, that you're only proving what a profound numskull you are.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Perhaps she meant that businesses would rather outsource and shop the jobs offshore, hiring cheaper non-American labor, than to create or sustain a job here, yes?

When you have the second-highest corporate income tax rate in the world and one of the highest repatriated income tax rates in the world, both of which Democrats oppose lowering, it's not surprising that offshore outsourcing occurs and that some $2 trillion dollars in overseas-earned income is being kept outside our borders. But liberals would rather "stick it to" the rich than take some common-sense steps that would encourage growth and bring $2 trillion back into our economy.

Or tempt-across and then hire Illegal Aliens at near-slave wages, yes?

Seal the border and enforce E-Verify, and then that won't be an issue.

It would also help if unions didn't extort unrealistic benefit packages that end up bankrupting or severely hurting companies and local and state governments, e.g., GM, Detroit, New Jersey, Wisconsin, California, etc., etc.

For some of the Big Boy Companies, those accusations are certainly true, aren't they?

See above. I like big companies. They typically have the best jobs. I want our companies to grow, to get bigger and richer, so they'll hire more people, open more offices, develop more and better products, etc., etc. I don't want to punish them or tax them into collapse. I want to grow and multiply them. The more businesses you have, the more employees you have; and the more employees you have, the more consumers you have.

 

[zeke]

It would also help if unions didn't extort unrealistic benefit packages that end up bankrupting or severely hurting companies and local and state governments, e.g., GM, Detroit, New Jersey, Wisconsin, California, etc., etc

Those union actions are over with. Unless you know of some new union negotiation that caused problems.

You do know that the defense industry is full of union jobs eh? Oil industry as well. Bet you hate that. Matter of fact along with a few UAW jobs, some Teamster jobs and the public employee unions, thats about all the unions left in America.

But let me ask you something. How is it that corporations are not being greedy when they go for the lowest cost of labor but unions are SO greedy when they want their members to be paid well? How's that work?
One side's greed is based on paying you the least they can and the other side is trying to get members paid well.
Are both sides equally greedy?

 

[Iceweasel]

Those union actions are over with. Unless you know of some new union negotiation that caused problems.

You do know that the defense industry is full of union jobs eh? Oil industry as well. Bet you hate that. Matter of fact along with a few UAW jobs, some Teamster jobs and the public employee unions, thats about all the unions left in America.

But let me ask you something. How is it that corporations are not being greedy when they go for the lowest cost of labor but unions are SO greedy when they want their members to be paid well? How's that work?
One side's greed is based on paying you the least they can and the other side is trying to get members paid well.
Are both sides equally greedy?

Unions in the private sector are at an all time low for a reason. Laws are in place for the things they championed years ago. Not all unions are the same, some are more interested in the companies survival, some apparently care more about union management and power.

That's why unions have moved into not just defense jobs but governments in general, which should be outlawed, with the exception of police, fire and emergency services. The employers (us) have no say in public union contracts and that's just wrong.

 

[zeke]

Unions in the private sector are at an all time low for a reason.

Yea, their jobs got shipped overseas. That'll cause union membership to decline.

Unions haven't just "moved" into defense industry jobs. They been there for a long time. As well as the oil industry.

I just find it strangely funny that the two industries most beloved by Republicans (defense and oil) both have large numbers of high paying union jobs. And you know how Republicans hate unions.

In terms of public unions. They can't strike. They can't strike and they can't strike. So what is the problem? You don't want a cop to make 50k a year? Why? They deserve it. Teachers. Firefighters.

Just what do you think is so wrong about people performing a certain job banding together to make the most of the job they have? For profit corporations do it all the time. Governments do it. You just don't like unions doing it.
Why?

 

[Iceweasel]

Yea, their jobs got shipped overseas. That'll cause union membership to decline.

Unions haven't just "moved" into defense industry jobs. They been there for a long time. As well as the oil industry.

I just find it strangely funny that the two industries most beloved by Republicans (defense and oil) both have large numbers of high paying union jobs. And you know how Republicans hate unions.

In terms of public unions. They can't strike. They can't strike and they can't strike. So what is the problem? You don't want a cop to make 50k a year? Why? They deserve it. Teachers. Firefighters.

Just what do you think is so wrong about people performing a certain job banding together to make the most of the job they have? For profit corporations do it all the time. Governments do it. You just don't like unions doing it.
Why?

I'm not the spokesperson for Republicans but i guess you are? As far as I know they want the freedom of a company to unionize or not. Something the union opposes. You are also oblivious to the fact that public ed teachers, one of the largest, if not the largest unions, strike on a regular basis all around the country, usually just before school is set to start, even though it's illegal.

What companies do with their money should be their business, not yours or mine.

 

[BlackSand]

We've had corporations making record profits without increasing jobs. We need to remove all subsidies from businesses less local taxes and fees and employee expense.

Profits occur when supply meets demand and they are exchanged. Having record profits means you are properly managing your business ... Not that you need to increase jobs.

Many subsidies and tax breaks companies receive have nothing to do with what kind of profit the company makes. They concern the activities the company agrees to engage in. It could be the location of a facility, production of specific products or the lack thereof ... The list goes on.

In most cases you should just be pissed at the stupid local, state and federal officials who make sorry deals with corporations in order to save their jobs.

.

 

[Kondor3]

Perhaps she meant that businesses would rather outsource and shop the jobs offshore, hiring cheaper non-American labor, than to create or sustain a job here, yes?

When you have the second-highest corporate income tax rate in the world and one of the highest repatriated income tax rates in the world, both of which Democrats oppose lowering, it's not surprising that offshore outsourcing occurs and that some $2 trillion dollars in overseas-earned income is being kept outside our borders. But liberals would rather "stick it to" the rich than take some common-sense steps that would encourage growth and bring $2 trillion back into our economy.

Or tempt-across and then hire Illegal Aliens at near-slave wages, yes?

Seal the border and enforce E-Verify, and then that won't be an issue.

It would also help if unions didn't extort unrealistic benefit packages that end up bankrupting or severely hurting companies and local and state governments, e.g., GM, Detroit, New Jersey, Wisconsin, California, etc., etc.

For some of the Big Boy Companies, those accusations are certainly true, aren't they?

See above. I like big companies. They typically have the best jobs. I want our companies to grow, to get bigger and richer, so they'll hire more people, open more offices, develop more and better products, etc., etc. I don't want to punish them or tax them into collapse. I want to grow and multiply them. The more businesses you have, the more employees you have; and the more employees you have, the more consumers you have.

Well, you've certainly managed to make enough excuses for Corporate America, in all of that, but... OK.

Raw and unbridled laissez faire doesn't work out, very well, for the Worker Bees, given that it leads to raw and unbridled greed and heartless management of corporate activity, so I can see how we got to this point - being obliged to *****-slap the greediest of the bunch from time to time.

I also appreciate that an overbearing and smothering regulation and taxation can kill or harm the goose that laid the golden egg.

The truth of the matter is, however, that, now that the Asians have modernized and are beginning to reap the benefit of popular (Worker Bee) education, they continue to undercut American wage-rates by remarkable margins - willing to live and work under frightful conditions that would make Sinclair Lewis et al blanche with shock and disgust.

We managed to eliminate actual slavery long ago, and we put a good-sized dent in wage-slavery in this country.

So, given that the pool of uneducated, desperate, exploitation-ripe Worker Bees in this country has dried-up, keeping the cost of labor higher in this country...

Vast improvements in global infrastructure and communications and travel in recent decades have made it possible and practical for American companies to employ and exploit gaggles of pseudo-slaves in other countries, where Big Business can glean the benefits of 'slave' labor while not being bothered by the consequences of domestic near-slavery being in our faces right down the street on a daily basis.

Tax rates and all of that happy horseshit are certainly ONE reason why Big Business goes off-shore, but Slave Labor is ANOTHER reason, and a more dominant one, and one that does great harm to the American People in the form of job-loss, and which stains and impugns the honor and morality of both American Business and the American Consumer.

It may be time to begin clamping down on off-shoring of jobs - as 'nationalistic' or 'socialistic' or 'protectionist' (of Labor) as that sounds - because Business will not and cannot be 'incentivized' or trusted to do that of its own volition - we functioned that way for many decades, and we can probably function that way again - and Devil take the hindmost.

In any event, it should prove interesting, to watch the next round or two of developments, in connection with off-shoring and globalization, in the next decade or two - especially the next time that the Dems get a turn at-bat in the White House and Congress combined (during the 2020s? 2030s? it's going to be a while, probably).

 

[BlackSand]

Well, you've certainly managed to make enough excuses for Corporate America, in all of that, but... OK.

Raw and unbridled laissez faire doesn't work out, very well, for the Worker Bees, given that it leads to raw and unbridled greed and heartless management of corporate activity, so I can see how we got to this point - being obliged to *****-slap the greediest of the bunch from time to time.

I also appreciate that an overbearing and smothering regulation and taxation can kill or harm the goose that laid the golden egg.

The truth of the matter is, however, that, now that the Asians have modernized and are beginning to reap the benefit of popular (Worker Bee) education, they continue to undercut American wage-rates by remarkable margins - willing to live and work under frightful conditions that would make Sinclair Lewis et al blanche with shock and disgust.

We managed to eliminate actual slavery long ago, and we put a good-sized dent in wage-slavery in this country.

So, given that the pool of uneducated, desperate, exploitation-ripe Worker Bees in this country has dried-up, keeping the cost of labor higher in this country...

Vast improvements in global infrastructure and communications and travel in recent decades have made it possible and practical for American companies to employ and exploit gaggles of pseudo-slaves in other countries, where Big Business can glean the benefits of 'slave' labor while not being bothered by the consequences of domestic near-slavery being in our faces right down the street on a daily basis.

Tax rates and all of that happy horseshit are certainly ONE reason why Big Business goes off-shore, but Slave Labor is ANOTHER reason, and a more dominant one, and one that does great harm to the American People in the form of job-loss, and which stains and impugns the honor and morality of both the American Business and the Consumer.

It may be time to begin clamping down on off-shoring of jobs - as 'nationalistic' or 'socialistic' or 'protectionist' (of Labor) as that sounds - because Business will not and cannot be 'incentivized' or trusted to do that of its own volition - we functioned that way for many decades, and we can probably function that way again - and Devil take the hindmost.

In any event, it should prove interesting, to watch the next round or two of developments, in connection with off-shoring and globalization, in the next decade or two - especially the next time that the Dems get a turn at-bat in the White House and Congress combined (during the 2020s? 2030s? it's going to be a while, probably).

Or we could just accept the general idea that the US will sooner or later be a solely aristocratic society that produces managers to send to world-wide manufacturing companies producing goods for global distribution.

.

 

[Iceweasel]

Raw and unbridled laissez faire doesn't work out, very well, for the Worker Bees, given that it leads to raw and unbridled greed and heartless management of corporate activity, so I can see how we got to this point - being obliged to *****-slap the greediest of the bunch from time to time.

What is your evidence for that? The robber barons were engaged in crony capitalism, which differs from free market capitalism. The free market has a way to keep people in check. Government is good at playing favorites.

 

[Kondor3]

Or we could just accept the general idea that the US will sooner or later be a solely aristocratic society that produces managers to send to world-wide manufacturing companies producing goods for global distribution. .

But what to do with the peasantry? Sell them to the slave-markets overseas? Make them serfs? The Chosen Ones will have large landed estates, yes? Sounds like great fun, if you're one of the One-Percenters, anyway. Absentee Landlord-ism, too? We can pretend we're Ireland in the 1700s. Maybe we can even arrange for a potato famine or two. (sorry, couldn't resist).

 

[Kondor3]

Raw and unbridled laissez faire doesn't work out, very well, for the Worker Bees, given that it leads to raw and unbridled greed and heartless management of corporate activity, so I can see how we got to this point - being obliged to *****-slap the greediest of the bunch from time to time.

What is your evidence for that? The robber barons were engaged in crony capitalism, which differs from free market capitalism. The free market has a way to keep people in check. Government is good at playing favorites.

My evidence IS the Era of the Robber Barons. You call it Crony Capitalism. I call it Raw and unbridled laissez faire. You also seem a wee bit too trusting that free market capitalism will not degenerate into Robber Barons Era II if left unregulated in matters of off-shoring, but that's just my own perception.

 

[zeke]

What companies do with their money should be their business, not yours or mine.

And what unions want their members to be paid should be their business. Not yours or mine. Right?
In my state (Ohio) there haven't been any public union strikes in many many years. I would have to go look to find the last time a teachers union struck.

Or we could just accept the general idea that the US will sooner or later be a solely aristocratic society that produces managers to send to world-wide manufacturing companies producing goods for global distribution. .

But what to do with the peasantry? Sell them to the slave-markets overseas? Make them serfs?

Would you settle for a combo deal? A few serfs, a few overseas slaves. Some domestic servants. Hell maybe we could raise them to eat?

 

[zeke]

I would have to go look to find the last time a teachers union struck.

Rutro. My bad. Reynoldsburg teachers struck just a year ago.

 

[BlackSand]

Or we could just accept the general idea that the US will sooner or later be a solely aristocratic society that produces managers to send to world-wide manufacturing companies producing goods for global distribution. .

But what to do with the peasantry? Sell them to the slave-markets overseas? Make them serfs?

If you feel the need to tell people what they can or cannot do ... Wouldn't it be more effective if you put those efforts towards producing a product and joining a larger attempt to advance the economy in a setting that improves relations and working conditions for a larger population?

I mean a wave of "global colonization" is already occurring. Large food corporations are buying out family farms all over the United States. Some of those farmers are taking their money from the sale and moving to more fertile lands in places like Brazil and sending their produce back to the United States using improved transportation processes.

So what if those farms and businesses aren't doing it under the name of a country ... The Empires are building either way whether or not you like it.

.

 

[Iceweasel]

My evidence IS the Era of the Robber Barons. You call it Crony Capitalism. I call it Raw and unbridled laissez faire. You also seem a wee bit too trusting that free market capitalism will not degenerate into Robber Barons Era II if left unregulated in matters of off-shoring, but that's just my own perception.

The robber barons were very well entrenched with Washington. Look at the history of Rockefeller, Carnegie, Vanderbilt, J.P. Morgan, etc. They wouldn't have got there without their cozy relationship with government. Free market capitalism is about fair play, the only role government should play is making sure no one gets a friendly helping hand scratching each others' backs from Uncle Sam.