Dogs - surgical stop of bark?

[koshergrl]

Yeah, unfortunately, if you live in town and have dogs, and the neighbors protest, your dog is the one who is going to suffer.

Which is why I'm fine with debarking. The dogs don't give a shit, and if it means they can continue to live with a family that loves them and they love, who cares?

I actually got a bizarro hate letter shortly after moving here....a rambling anonymous letter about how my neighbors were suffering because of my dogs barking (I had no idea they were barking..my little dog was being kept in the house, my big dog in back during the day). With a full page xerox insert about how God is watching me, how he watches everything I do, every move I make...

The letter included the standard "This was a nice quiet neighborhood before YOU moved here" lol.

I was appalled and mortified...particularly since none of my neighbors has ever said a word to me, and every other house in the neighborhood has dogs...some of them big ones. I asked my cousin, who is a dispatcher and lives down the street, and knows many of our neighbors (which include a K-9 cop and various and assorted other cops) if she had heard anything about my dogs, and she said absolutely not.

Anyway, I brought my dog in and they are now completely house dogs, including the big boy. I have no idea who sent the letter, I think it was some random person who walked by my house and didn't like being barked at, and not a neighbor at all.

But I digress. My point is, I would rather debark my dogs than try to find new homes for them. They love us, and we love them, and they have a good life. I haven't had to do that, because I do keep them in the house (and listen to all the other neighborhood dogs in my before-KG "quiet" neighborhood bark long and hard for hours on end)

My little dog obsesses over birds..she'll bark incessantly at them. Tweety birds, birds flying overhead, crows sitting on the top of the roof. She never ever stops. That's the sort of dog she is.

When she's loose, she runs, and she hunts. For hours, and hours, and hours. She hunts birds and small animals.

I'm still playing with the idea of debarking her, if that meant that she could stay outside during the day. Because she LOVES to be outside.

 

[Thorgasm]

Yeah, unfortunately, if you live in town and have dogs, and the neighbors protest, your dog is the one who is going to suffer.

Which is why I'm fine with debarking. The dogs don't give a shit, and if it means they can continue to live with a family that loves them and they love, who cares?

I actually got a bizarro hate letter shortly after moving here....a rambling anonymous letter about how my neighbors were suffering because of my dogs barking (I had no idea they were barking..my little dog was being kept in the house, my big dog in back during the day). With a full page xerox insert about how God is watching me, how he watches everything I do, every move I make...

The letter included the standard "This was a nice quiet neighborhood before YOU moved here" lol.

I was appalled and mortified...particularly since none of my neighbors has ever said a word to me, and every other house in the neighborhood has dogs...some of them big ones. I asked my cousin, who is a dispatcher and lives down the street, and knows many of our neighbors (which include a K-9 cop and various and assorted other cops) if she had heard anything about my dogs, and she said absolutely not.

Anyway, I brought my dog in and they are now completely house dogs, including the big boy. I have no idea who sent the letter, I think it was some random person who walked by my house and didn't like being barked at, and not a neighbor at all.

But I digress. My point is, I would rather debark my dogs than try to find new homes for them. They love us, and we love them, and they have a good life. I haven't had to do that, because I do keep them in the house (and listen to all the other neighborhood dogs in my before-KG "quiet" neighborhood bark long and hard for hours on end)

My little dog obsesses over birds..she'll bark incessantly at them. Tweety birds, birds flying overhead, crows sitting on the top of the roof. She never ever stops. That's the sort of dog she is.

When she's loose, she runs, and she hunts. For hours, and hours, and hours. She hunts birds and small animals.

I'm still playing with the idea of debarking her, if that meant that she could stay outside during the day. Because she LOVES to be outside.

This is silly. You operate from the premise of a false dichotomy. You state that it's either debark them or get rid of them. There are other options. You could try training them, they have bark collars, or you could have someone else train them.

Having them debarked without trying other methods is as stupid as having gastric bypass surgery before trying exercise and a healthy diet.

 

[koshergrl]

Actually, I never stated that, so you are the one operating from the premise of a false dichotomy. But there definitely are instances where a dog's barking leads to them being shuffled from place to place. Are there other options? Maybe. Once in a while they work. Will neighbors wait? Not always.

And there are dogs that can't be trained not to bark. My parson is one of them.

And I'd rather have my girl debarked that subject her to the torture of a bark collar. At least she still gets to engage in the behavior if she's de-barked, rather than being subjected to punishment every time she tries it.

 

[Thorgasm]

Actually, I never stated that, so you are the one operating from the premise of a false dichotomy. But there definitely are instances where a dog's barking leads to them being shuffled from place to place. Are there other options? Maybe. Once in a while they work. Will neighbors wait? Not always.

And there are dogs that can't be trained not to bark. My parson is one of them.

And I'd rather have my girl debarked that subject her to the torture of a bark collar. At least she still gets to engage in the behavior if she's de-barked, rather than being subjected to punishment every time she tries it.

You said:

My point is, I would rather debark my dogs than try to find new homes for them.

Unless your dog has a neuroligical issue, it is trainable. What methods have you used? Which books did you read about training dogs and who were they authored by? How many trainers have you taken your dog to?

You don't have to punish a dog to train it. You can use redirection or corrections. I'll bet Cesar Milan could have your dog behaving in an afternoon. It sounds to me like you don't know how to train your dog to not bark and probably haven't even tried it.

I also don't understand how you don't think it was really a neighbor that wrote the letter but yet your neighbors won't wait for training to work. I think you are making excuses for laziness. How often do you walk your dogs?

 

[Thorgasm]

I rep for a lot of reasons.

But if I rep you (not YOU personally...the abstract "you") a lot, and you never rep me back, and in fact say shitty things to and about me...eventually those reps are going to stop.

I don't know if you directed this at me or not, but I am new here and not familiar with the rep system.

 

[koshergrl]

I know what I said. And it wasn't what you said I said.
I would rather debark my dog than try to find new homes for them.

And no, Cesar wouldn't have my dog behaving in an afternoon. She would be one of the "this is as bad as it gets" cases that he would take and put with his big bad boys. She doesn't back down, she's aggressive, she's dominant, and she's hard wired to do what she does.

I don't think it was a neighbor because I have since gotten to know my neighbors, and they say it wasn't them. And at the time it happened, I asked around. Nobody else was bothered by the dogs.

So thank you, take your amateur dog training tips and try them on someone who will be impressed by them. I don't need your input, I'm discussing debarking, and I remain in favor of it, if makes life easier for a family, including their pet.

 

[koshergrl]

I rep for a lot of reasons.

But if I rep you (not YOU personally...the abstract "you") a lot, and you never rep me back, and in fact say shitty things to and about me...eventually those reps are going to stop.

I don't know if you directed this at me or not, but I am new here and not familiar with the rep system.

WTH..wrong thread, deleted.

 

[Thorgasm]

I know what I said. And it wasn't what you said I said.
I would rather debark my dog than try to find new homes for them.

And no, Cesar wouldn't have my dog behaving in an afternoon. She would be one of the "this is as bad as it gets" cases that he would take and put with his big bad boys. She doesn't back down, she's aggressive, she's dominant, and she's hard wired to do what she does.

I don't think it was a neighbor because I have since gotten to know my neighbors, and they say it wasn't them. And at the time it happened, I asked around. Nobody else was bothered by the dogs.

So thank you, take your amateur dog training tips and try them on someone who will be impressed by them. I don't need your input, I'm discussing debarking, and I remain in favor of it, if makes life easier for a family, including their pet.

There is a difference between aggression and dominance.

I noticed that you refused to answer any of my questions. My suspicions must have been correct.

Not every dog reacts well to anasthesia. Surgery should be a last option. You chose the quickest and easiest option. If your dog was allergic to anasthesia or got an infection it certainly could have been more harmful than training. I hope people on the fence about debarking consider this.

If people don't have the time to walk their dogs, stimulate them mentally, and train them, they probably would be better off having fish for a pet.

 

[koshergrl]

I know there's a difference between aggression and dominance, which is why I said she's aggressive AND dominant.

I refused to answer your question because I don't need a lesson on training my dog, thanks, but no thanks. I don't get into *discussions* about how I should be dealing with my animals with people who offer advice without being asked. I've had horses and dogs all my life, and I can smell a wannabe with something to prove a mile away. They're the people who approach you before they know anything about you or your animals, or your history, to tell you all the things you're doing wrong, and to puff up their own chests and rattle off all their expert opinions as fast as they can get them out.

Not interested.

 

[Thorgasm]

I know there's a difference between aggression and dominance, which is why I said she's aggressive AND dominant.

I refused to answer your question because I don't need a lesson on training my dog, thanks, but no thanks. I don't get into *discussions* about how I should be dealing with my animals with people who offer advice without being asked. I've had horses and dogs all my life, and I can smell a wannabe with something to prove a mile away. They're the people who approach you before they know anything about you or your animals, or your history, to tell you all the things you're doing wrong, and to puff up their own chests and rattle off all their expert opinions as fast as they can get them out.

Not interested.

I know you aren't interested. Don't think I am foolish enough to think I could persuade you.

My posts aren't about puffing up my chest. I am interested in dogs being healthy and balanced. I have no delusions about myself being the perfect pet owner. I have educated myself about dogs and dog behavior more than the average pet owner though. If I have a chance to share information with people and that helps them, that's great. As I am sure you know, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.

I know people that have driven their whole life and they still drink and drive, text while driving, put on makeup, etc... Being around people their whole life doesn't automatically make one a psychologist either.

If you like your dog being aggressive and dominant and aren't concerned about the potential lawsuits from your dog's aggression, or the possible harm to your dog due to it's aggression, don't listen to anyone. I'm am open to hearing peoples advice and suggestions. I'm not afraid to learn something new. Knowledge is power. If I don't like certain advice, I don't employ it.

This is a discussion about debarking dogs. In my opinion, it appears that you are only seeking validation for your opinion. I'm sorry my refusal to validate your poor choice of an opinion is offensive to you. I just hope others don't see your opinion well informed.

 

[koshergrl]

Good lord, shut up already.

If only you knew how many pontificating loons I've had the misfortune to be subjected to.

It goes with the territory...as bad as the dog world is, the horse world is even worse. I love it when someone who has had horses for about 10 minutes starts prating at me about everything I'm doing wrong, based on completely idiotic assumptions gleaned from a statement or two on an internet message board.

Now you belong to that crowd. You've made a lot of retarded assumptions about me based on the fact that I don't have a problem with debarking. You are the biggest loser.

 

[Thorgasm]

Good lord, shut up already.

So you want to amputate my hands?

If only you knew how many pontificating loons I've had the misfortune to be subjected to.

I'm not sure how this information would help me.

It goes with the territory...as bad as the dog world is, the horse world is even worse. I love it when someone who has had horses for about 10 minutes starts prating at me about everything I'm doing wrong, based on completely idiotic assumptions gleaned from a statement or two on an internet message board.

Now you belong to that crowd. You've made a lot of retarded assumptions about me based on the fact that I don't have a problem with debarking. You are the biggest loser.

So you want your dog to exhibit aggression?

That's odd.

 

[koshergrl]

Good lord, shut up already.

So you want to amputate my hands?

If only you knew how many pontificating loons I've had the misfortune to be subjected to.

I'm not sure how this information would help me.

It goes with the territory...as bad as the dog world is, the horse world is even worse. I love it when someone who has had horses for about 10 minutes starts prating at me about everything I'm doing wrong, based on completely idiotic assumptions gleaned from a statement or two on an internet message board.

Now you belong to that crowd. You've made a lot of retarded assumptions about me based on the fact that I don't have a problem with debarking. You are the biggest loser.

So you want your dog to exhibit aggression?

That's odd.

Keep rolling with it. You obviously have a rich fantasy life.

 

[Thorgasm]

Good lord, shut up already.

So you want to amputate my hands?


I'm not sure how this information would help me.

It goes with the territory...as bad as the dog world is, the horse world is even worse. I love it when someone who has had horses for about 10 minutes starts prating at me about everything I'm doing wrong, based on completely idiotic assumptions gleaned from a statement or two on an internet message board.

Now you belong to that crowd. You've made a lot of retarded assumptions about me based on the fact that I don't have a problem with debarking. You are the biggest loser.

So you want your dog to exhibit aggression?

That's odd.

Keep rolling with it. You obviously have a rich fantasy life.

It's irresponsible to not address aggression.

 

[koshergrl]

Russells are aggressive. That's the sort of dog they are. That's why people with Jacks & Parsons never leave their terriers alone with other terriers, or any other animal. They've been bred to hunt and kill foxes and large rodents. That's the sort of dog they are.

We've had my girl for 5 years now. She's a rescue. Her previous owner had to get rid of her because he was getting married, and his new wife had children and those children had pets, including other dogs, and she couldn't be trusted with any of them...kids, dogs, cats, whatever. She couldn't run loose, because she hunted continually and killed everything she found, and chased things for miles.

She's possessive, territorial, obsessive, aggressive, dominant and has a verry strong prey drive.

Are you getting the picture?

We love her and she's part of our family. If the barking caused a problem with the neighbors, I would have her debarked in a hot second because I don't want to give her to somebody else. It nearly broke her heart when she was given to us, and the first time I went on vacation and left her behind, she went into a decline that took her months to get over. Over the last 5 years I have managed to socialize her and she is much less inclined to bite (though she still does every now and then). She still attacks other dogs under certain circumstances. We can't have cats or any other small animal. She kills birds, she pulls them out of the air when they fly over the yard.

I know all about the 40 minute rollerblade/bicycle/treadmill schtick. I don't have a dog treadmill, and I can't run fast enough or far enough to wear her out. In fact, I've never seen her worn out, and I've seen her when she's come home after chasing deer for a full 24 hours. I promise you, 40 minutes at a run does nothing to change her attitude.

She's a terrier, and she's a parson russell to boot. This is what they do.

A saint bernard joined our household last year and he has opened up a whole new world for her, lol. It took a long time, but she has learned to play..and she can't hurt him, so they are the perfect, if odd looking, pair. They play tug of war every night...and it is so funny to watch her reach inside his mouth and pluck her toys out of there...

 

[Peach]

my neighbors adopted a beagle. It used to be a show dog. The original owners had elective surgery done on the adorable beagle's vocal cords to stop it from barking.

It still "barks" but it sounds like it hurts the poor little thing to try to bark - sounds like it has laryngitis.

I think that is beyond cruel. Makes me sad and mad at the same time.

And, i think any dog show that allows such a dog to continue competing is a shame to the dog-loving world. If the showing community immediately dqs any dog from competition, maybe fewer dogs would have their voices taken away by owners who are too inconvenienced to have a dog who acts like a dog.

Agreed. I do not care if the pup is a 'show dog' or not, this is abuse.

 

[koshergrl]

So you want to amputate my hands?


I'm not sure how this information would help me.



So you want your dog to exhibit aggression?

That's odd.

Keep rolling with it. You obviously have a rich fantasy life.

It's irresponsible to not address aggression.

When did you get the impression I didn't address it?

 

[Zander]

My neighbors adopted a beagle. It used to be a show dog. The original owners had elective surgery done on the adorable beagle's vocal cords to stop it from barking.

It still "barks" but it sounds like it hurts the poor little thing to try to bark - sounds like it has laryngitis.

I think that is beyond cruel. Makes me sad and mad at the same time.

And, I think any dog show that allows such a dog to continue competing is a shame to the dog-loving world. If the showing community immediately DQs any dog from competition, maybe fewer dogs would have their voices taken away by owners who are too inconvenienced to have a dog who acts like a dog.

I think it's sickening and I would have no problem telling them. In fact, I'd love to tell them. Give me their phone number and I will give those sick fucks a call, every night, until they die!

 

[koshergrl]

That's called harassment, and it's generally frowned upon.

 

[koshergrl]

my neighbors adopted a beagle. It used to be a show dog. The original owners had elective surgery done on the adorable beagle's vocal cords to stop it from barking.

It still "barks" but it sounds like it hurts the poor little thing to try to bark - sounds like it has laryngitis.

I think that is beyond cruel. Makes me sad and mad at the same time.

And, i think any dog show that allows such a dog to continue competing is a shame to the dog-loving world. If the showing community immediately dqs any dog from competition, maybe fewer dogs would have their voices taken away by owners who are too inconvenienced to have a dog who acts like a dog.

Agreed. I do not care if the pup is a 'show dog' or not, this is abuse.

Bullshit.

Exactly how is it abusive? Because you don't like the way the dog sounds after it's bark is quietened?