Does the 2nd Amendment Cover Ammo?

[SwimExpert]

The second one I think is bullshit because domestic violence too often is he said she said and nobody should lose their gun rights forever because of a crazy girlfriend.

Actually, it's more "she said." Nobody cares what the man says. And definitely nobody cares much if she did.

 

[007]

I've heard some say that it does and others say that POTUS is able to sign an executive order banning ammo.

That's like asking if the first amendment covers punctuation.

No.

 

[bripat9643]

The police have no authority to do background checks on anyone unless they are the target of a criminal investigation. The Constitution doesn't allow infringing the right to bear arms for any reason other than having been convicted of a felony by due process of law.

Not exactly true.
The state can infringe your right so long at such infringement confirms to the standards of strict scrutiny.
This is, of course, exceedingly difficult to do as the state must show a compelling interest for the infringement, that the infringement meets that interest, and that it is least restrictve means of doing so.

Agreed. I don't think Americans are ready to get rid of background checks to prevent felons and crazy people from getting guns. Nearly all gun rights supporters including myself want to make sure that certain people can't just walk into a gun store and walk out with a gun.

That depends on how you define "crazy person." Does going to a doctor and getting a prescription for anti-depressants or Vallium make you a "crazy person?" Where is the line drawn

In most cases it has to be adjudicated. That means you don't lose your gun rights just for going to see a psychiatrist for depression. It's actually an uphill battle to get somebody disqualified and it's more rare than people think. Most people lose their gun rights by committing a felony or domestic violence. The second one I think is bullshit because domestic violence too often is he said she said and nobody should lose their gun rights forever because of a crazy girlfriend.

My brother got thrown in jail because he took her cell phone when she threatened to call the police on him. Calling the police was her favorite tactic. She did it three times previously

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Romney can ban automatic weapons at the state level and RW's don't give it a second thought. I'd be more concerned about idiot RW politicians ...

Yeah, Romney was VERY popular with right wingers. That's why 4 million of us didn't show up to vote for him.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

The police have no authority to do background checks on anyone unless they are the target of a criminal investigation. The Constitution doesn't allow infringing the right to bear arms for any reason other than having been convicted of a felony by due process of law.

Not exactly true.
The state can infringe your right so long at such infringement confirms to the standards of strict scrutiny.
This is, of course, exceedingly difficult to do as the state must show a compelling interest for the infringement, that the infringement meets that interest, and that it is least restrictve means of doing so.

Agreed. I don't think Americans are ready to get rid of background checks to prevent felons and crazy people from getting guns. Nearly all gun rights supporters including myself want to make sure that certain people can't just walk into a gun store and walk out with a gun.

That depends on how you define "crazy person." Does going to a doctor and getting a prescription for anti-depressants or Vallium make you a "crazy person?" Where is the line drawn

In most cases it has to be adjudicated. That means you don't lose your gun rights just for going to see a psychiatrist for depression. It's actually an uphill battle to get somebody disqualified and it's more rare than people think. Most people lose their gun rights by committing a felony or domestic violence. The second one I think is bullshit because domestic violence too often is he said she said and nobody should lose their gun rights forever because of a crazy girlfriend.

My brother got thrown in jail because he took her cell phone when she threatened to call the police on him. Calling the police was her favorite tactic. She did it three times previously

It's one of the many reasons shacking up is stupid. Guys who shack up with girls they hardly know are taking their chances with their gun rights...for life. I'm hoping that with a Republican president and congress, the NRA pushes very hard to get that stupid law repealed.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Read the next half of the Second.

Rights can be abridged by the law for many reasons. That's why those in prison are not allowed to bear arms. That's why some states practice capital punishment.

That part is purely explanatory. It has no legal implications.

Only boot-licking government toadies believe the government can abridge your rights. The constitution says your rights can be abridged only by "due process of law." That means a jury trial. That's the only way your rights can be abridged. The ATF doesn't have the authority to abridge your 2nd Amendment rights with some Obama Executive Order.

You just proved my argument!

Also, apparently you've not heard of gun permits, etc.

Jury trial. LOL.

I'm well aware of the fact that government infringes on our Constitutional rights, and it has come up with a thousand excuses for doing so. It also has an army of toadies that will defend its actions. Apparently you believe that since murder still occurs that it must be legal.

Abridging is not the same as infringing. The first refers to curtailing a right for certain individuals while the second refers to removing the right for everyone.

It's exactly the same thing.

Thus, the right to bear arms remains, but it can be abridged if, say, the police has to do a background check on the gun owner.

Your last point makes no sense at all.

The police have no authority to do background checks on anyone unless they are the target of a criminal investigation. The Constitution doesn't allow infringing the right to bear arms for any reason other than having been convicted of a felony by due process of law.

ralfy is actually trying to say that wanting to purchase a firearm is suspicious, and therefore the government can conduct a warantless search on you. Because guns are evil!

 

[SwimExpert]

My brother got thrown in jail because he took her cell phone when she threatened to call the police on him. Calling the police was her favorite tactic. She did it three times previously

So....your brother got thrown in jail for theft. Cool story.

 

[bripat9643]

Not exactly true.
The state can infringe your right so long at such infringement confirms to the standards of strict scrutiny.
This is, of course, exceedingly difficult to do as the state must show a compelling interest for the infringement, that the infringement meets that interest, and that it is least restrictve means of doing so.

Agreed. I don't think Americans are ready to get rid of background checks to prevent felons and crazy people from getting guns. Nearly all gun rights supporters including myself want to make sure that certain people can't just walk into a gun store and walk out with a gun.

That depends on how you define "crazy person." Does going to a doctor and getting a prescription for anti-depressants or Vallium make you a "crazy person?" Where is the line drawn

In most cases it has to be adjudicated. That means you don't lose your gun rights just for going to see a psychiatrist for depression. It's actually an uphill battle to get somebody disqualified and it's more rare than people think. Most people lose their gun rights by committing a felony or domestic violence. The second one I think is bullshit because domestic violence too often is he said she said and nobody should lose their gun rights forever because of a crazy girlfriend.

My brother got thrown in jail because he took her cell phone when she threatened to call the police on him. Calling the police was her favorite tactic. She did it three times previously

It's one of the many reasons shacking up is stupid. Guys who shack up with girls they hardly know are taking their chances with their gun rights...for life. I'm hoping that with a Republican president and congress, the NRA pushes very hard to get that stupid law repealed.

That makes getting married just as stupid.

 

[bripat9643]

My brother got thrown in jail because he took her cell phone when she threatened to call the police on him. Calling the police was her favorite tactic. She did it three times previously

So....your brother got thrown in jail for theft. Cool story.

Wrong, moron. You can't be arrested for stealing from your wife because be definition everything is community property.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Didn

To recap, the Second actually doesn't defend the right to bear arms. Rather it uses the right to bear arms to justify the formation of regulated militias.

The reason for this is that the right to bear arms is a natural right and thus does not require government approval. It's a natural right because it's part of the right to defend oneself and loved ones.

On the other hand, defending strangers (like fellow countrymen) is not a natural right and requires government enforcement. Ironically, that's where the Second comes in, together with Art. 1 Sec. 8 and the Militia Acts.

Finally, natural rights may be abridged by law for one reason or another. Hence, government units may impose gun control. In turn, citizens who are against this may vote for government officials who do not support such.

Horseshit. All the rights listed in the Bill of Rights are natural rights. What part of "the right to bear arms shall not be infringed" doesn't protect the right to bear arms?

Furthermore, how can you say rights can be infringed when the BOR says it shall not be infringed? You're spewing government doublespeak.

Read the next half of the Second.

Rights can be abridged by the law for many reasons. That's why those in prison are not allowed to bear arms. That's why some states practice capital punishment.

That part is purely explanatory. It has no legal implications.

Only boot-licking government toadies believe the government can abridge your rights. The constitution says your rights can be abridged only by "due process of law." That means a jury trial. That's the only way your rights can be abridged. The ATF doesn't have the authority to abridge your 2nd Amendment rights with some Obama Executive Order.

You just proved my argument!

Also, apparently you've not heard of gun permits, etc.

Jury trial. LOL.

So the existence of gun permits is proof that they're valid? Circular dumbass reasoning.

Jim Crow must have been good because it existed for decades!

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Agreed. I don't think Americans are ready to get rid of background checks to prevent felons and crazy people from getting guns. Nearly all gun rights supporters including myself want to make sure that certain people can't just walk into a gun store and walk out with a gun.

That depends on how you define "crazy person." Does going to a doctor and getting a prescription for anti-depressants or Vallium make you a "crazy person?" Where is the line drawn

In most cases it has to be adjudicated. That means you don't lose your gun rights just for going to see a psychiatrist for depression. It's actually an uphill battle to get somebody disqualified and it's more rare than people think. Most people lose their gun rights by committing a felony or domestic violence. The second one I think is bullshit because domestic violence too often is he said she said and nobody should lose their gun rights forever because of a crazy girlfriend.

My brother got thrown in jail because he took her cell phone when she threatened to call the police on him. Calling the police was her favorite tactic. She did it three times previously

It's one of the many reasons shacking up is stupid. Guys who shack up with girls they hardly know are taking their chances with their gun rights...for life. I'm hoping that with a Republican president and congress, the NRA pushes very hard to get that stupid law repealed.

That makes getting married just as stupid.

I don't really think so. Married people are more stable. Police show up to a domestic dispute, it's nearly always a shack up couple. I'm not saying it can't happen to married folk, but people with a commitment to each other don't act the same as some guy with an unpaid whore.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

That part is purely explanatory. It has no legal implications.

Only boot-licking government toadies believe the government can abridge your rights. The constitution says your rights can be abridged only by "due process of law." That means a jury trial. That's the only way your rights can be abridged. The ATF doesn't have the authority to abridge your 2nd Amendment rights with some Obama Executive Order.

You just proved my argument!

Also, apparently you've not heard of gun permits, etc.

Jury trial. LOL.

I'm well aware of the fact that government infringes on our Constitutional rights, and it has come up with a thousand excuses for doing so. It also has an army of toadies that will defend its actions. Apparently you believe that since murder still occurs that it must be legal.

Abridging is not the same as infringing. The first refers to curtailing a right for certain individuals while the second refers to removing the right for everyone.

It's exactly the same thing.

Thus, the right to bear arms remains, but it can be abridged if, say, the police has to do a background check on the gun owner.

Your last point makes no sense at all.

The police have no authority to do background checks on anyone unless they are the target of a criminal investigation. The Constitution doesn't allow infringing the right to bear arms for any reason other than having been convicted of a felony by due process of law.

ralfy is actually trying to say that wanting to purchase a firearm is suspicious, and therefore the government can conduct a warantless search on you. Because guns are evil!

And yet history proves that those who take away guns committed the most horrific wholesale evils in the history of man.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

My brother got thrown in jail because he took her cell phone when she threatened to call the police on him. Calling the police was her favorite tactic. She did it three times previously

So....your brother got thrown in jail for theft. Cool story.

OMG, you were just starting to sound respectable and then this ^^^^

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Yeah right. No chance in hell that will happen. He might as well hang himself with his own rope if pulled something stupid like that.

He did, Feb 2015

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Didn

Horseshit. All the rights listed in the Bill of Rights are natural rights. What part of "the right to bear arms shall not be infringed" doesn't protect the right to bear arms?

Furthermore, how can you say rights can be infringed when the BOR says it shall not be infringed? You're spewing government doublespeak.

Read the next half of the Second.

Rights can be abridged by the law for many reasons. That's why those in prison are not allowed to bear arms. That's why some states practice capital punishment.

That part is purely explanatory. It has no legal implications.

Only boot-licking government toadies believe the government can abridge your rights. The constitution says your rights can be abridged only by "due process of law." That means a jury trial. That's the only way your rights can be abridged. The ATF doesn't have the authority to abridge your 2nd Amendment rights with some Obama Executive Order.

You just proved my argument!

Also, apparently you've not heard of gun permits, etc.

Jury trial. LOL.

So the existence of gun permits is proof that they're valid? Circular dumbass reasoning.

Jim Crow must have been good because it existed for decades!

Over a century, in fact.

 

[Siete]

Romney can ban automatic weapons at the state level and RW's don't give it a second thought. I'd be more concerned about idiot RW politicians ...

Yeah, Romney was VERY popular with right wingers. That's why 4 million of us didn't show up to vote for him.

oh ... so now Romney lost because RW didn't show up and vote for him ... I remember the RW's said voter fraud caused him to lose ....


LMAO

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Romney can ban automatic weapons at the state level and RW's don't give it a second thought. I'd be more concerned about idiot RW politicians ...

Yeah, Romney was VERY popular with right wingers. That's why 4 million of us didn't show up to vote for him.

oh ... so now Romney lost because RW didn't show up and vote for him ... I remember the RW's said voter fraud caused him to lose ....


LMAO

4 million fewer GOP voters than showed up for McCain, you jackass.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Over a century, in fact.

It was even upheld by the SCOTUS, obviously a good thing!

 

[SwimExpert]

Wrong, moron. You can't be arrested for stealing from your wife because be definition everything is community property.

So, if I steal my wife's car, it's not actually stealing?

 

[bripat9643]

Didn

Read the next half of the Second.

Rights can be abridged by the law for many reasons. That's why those in prison are not allowed to bear arms. That's why some states practice capital punishment.

That part is purely explanatory. It has no legal implications.

Only boot-licking government toadies believe the government can abridge your rights. The constitution says your rights can be abridged only by "due process of law." That means a jury trial. That's the only way your rights can be abridged. The ATF doesn't have the authority to abridge your 2nd Amendment rights with some Obama Executive Order.

You just proved my argument!

Also, apparently you've not heard of gun permits, etc.

Jury trial. LOL.

So the existence of gun permits is proof that they're valid? Circular dumbass reasoning.

Jim Crow must have been good because it existed for decades!

Over a century, in fact.

Less than a century, actually. Jim Crow didn't start until after first Civil Rights Act was declared unconstitutional in 1883.