Zone1 Does morality shape religion or does religion shape morality ?

[Crepitus]

and you are stupid as all the folks who studied that as their life's work would laugh at you

Take Arnold J Toynbee
“Religion holds the solution to all problems of human relationship, whether they are between parents and children or nation and nation. Sooner or later, man has always had to decide whether he worships his own power or the power of God.”


“On this showing, the nature of the breakdowns of civilizations can be summed up in three points: a failure of creative power in the minority, an answering withdrawal of mimesis on the part of the majority, and a consequent loss of social unity in the society as a whole.”

— Arnold J. Toynbee
AND TOTALLY AGAINST YOU:
. “The equation of religion with belief is rather recent.”
— Arnold J. Toynbee
“The course of human history consists of a series of encounters between individual human beings and God in which each man and woman or child, in turn, is challenged by God to make his free choice between doing God’s will and refusing to do it.”

— Arnold J. Toynbee “The course of human history consists of a series of encounters between individual human beings and God in which each man and woman or child, in turn, is challenged by God to make his free choice between doing God’s will and refusing to do it.”

They should have gotten real jobs instead of wasting their lives on what made up abusive sky daddies want us to do.

 

[Hang on Sloopy]

Our retreat from Christianity doesn’t mean we’ve lost our sense of morality | Kenan Malik

Those who moan that we’re losing our religion are quick to demonise the most vulnerable

www.theguardian.com

Yet the history of Christianity itself shows that it is not belief in God that defines our moral values but our moral values that shape the way we think about God. Christians (like those of many faiths) once enslaved fellow human beings, burned witches and killed adulterers, believing such practices to have divine sanction. Few Christians today would regard such practices as morally acceptable. Not because God has changed his mind but because humans have.

Collective social struggle – from campaigns to abolish slavery to battles for women’s rights – have been underpinned by moral considerations while becoming also the source of moral development. Such struggles have transformed our moral universe, and in so doing transformed, also, what believers imagine God deems to be good.

I cant see how this can be argued with.The people who campaigned aganst slavery may have been Christians but they were also good people who recognised it as evil.
It was their personal morality rather than any shift in the attitude of the churvh.

Life is generally better now that it was a century,or 2 centuries, back. But that is because we are better people rather than a shift in faith.

You could argue that art is more influential than the church in this.

i have only a few questions to gauge morality

do you denounce all grooming and pedophile actions and thoughts

renounce all trans gender and gender nonsense

to renounce homosexuality

renounce single motherhood and breeding worthless bastartds

renounce control of the government

 

[Libby von H]

They should have gotten real jobs instead of wasting their lives on what made up abusive sky daddies want us to do.

Do you think you sound profound? The evidence goes the other way.

 

[Blues Man]

Human morality evolved out of the need for interdependence between members of a tribe in order to survive.

 

[Libby von H]

Human morality evolved out of the need for interdependence between members of a tribe in order to survive.

Then you have supplied your own rebuttal. What about 'honor among thieves'
Of course that can't be right eople would no more agree on what needs to be imposed than on what kept them apart to begin with. This is all Rousseau nonsense,noble savage crap.

People were already and always in groups whether family or clan and they KNEW the basic moral law.
Does Cannibal Joe and Warrior Ralph have to agree that you aren't to kill my kids or attack my wife.
Get your head cleared, you talk nonsense

 

[Blues Man]

Then you have supplied your own rebuttal. What about 'honor among thieves'
Of course that can't be right eople would no more agree on what needs to be imposed than on what kept them apart to begin with. This is all Rousseau nonsense,noble savage crap.

People were already and always in groups whether family or clan and they KNEW the basic moral law.
Does Cannibal Joe and Warrior Ralph have to agree that you aren't to kill my kids or attack my wife.
Get your head cleared, you talk nonsense

Look the guy with a weak sense of morality lecturing me on what morality is.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

and you are stupid as all the folks who studied that as their life's work would laugh at you

Take Arnold J Toynbee
“Religion holds the solution to all problems of human relationship, whether they are between parents and children or nation and nation. Sooner or later, man has always had to decide whether he worships his own power or the power of God.”


“On this showing, the nature of the breakdowns of civilizations can be summed up in three points: a failure of creative power in the minority, an answering withdrawal of mimesis on the part of the majority, and a consequent loss of social unity in the society as a whole.”

— Arnold J. Toynbee
AND TOTALLY AGAINST YOU:
. “The equation of religion with belief is rather recent.”
— Arnold J. Toynbee
“The course of human history consists of a series of encounters between individual human beings and God in which each man and woman or child, in turn, is challenged by God to make his free choice between doing God’s will and refusing to do it.”

— Arnold J. Toynbee “The course of human history consists of a series of encounters between individual human beings and God in which each man and woman or child, in turn, is challenged by God to make his free choice between doing God’s will and refusing to do it.”

In many cases religion is the problem not the answerto the problem.

 

[Crepitus]

Do you think you sound profound? The evidence goes the other way.

There is no evidence in the direction you want it to be.