Does carrying a gun make you safer? No. In fact, right-to-carry laws increase violent crime

[Blues Man]

According to a "novel algorithm" -- hmmmmmmmmmm.

and synthetic controls IOW made up shit

 

[Blues Man]

Are you really making the point that criminals doing criminal acts isn't the cause, but law abiding people being victims of criminals rather is?

Stop the criminal. Michael Jordan and Nike didn't cause kids to get robbed and shot. Criminals wanting his shoes did.

From the link:
The image that comes to mind is guys who might in one instance have solved their disagreement with fists now have guns. Is that a fair image or is it exaggerating?

Well, I think that there are many ways in which right-to-carry laws cause problems. One is as you said, and there are some obvious examples just in the last couple of weeks. In one case, a guy in Pennsylvania was merging in traffic and an 18-year-old girl cut in front of him and enraged him, and he just took out his gun, which he had a concealed-carry permit for, and shot her in the head and just drove off – killed her.

Then a couple of days later, in Seattle, a guy was riding home in an Uber from a wedding, and he had had too much to drink, and he and his wife got into a heated argument and he just took out a gun and shot her in the head. I suspect both of these cases would not have happened had the guy not had a concealed carry permit. There wouldn’t have been a gun around, and you know if you get really angry carrying a gun, it’s more likely something bad will happen.

But there are also so many other ways in which carrying concealed handguns creates problems. One huge way is that guns are much more likely to be stolen when you’re taking them around town and walking around. We see this quite a bit in California over the last couple of years. A number of incidents in San Francisco got a lot of headlines when somebody left their gun in their car – a permit holder – and somebody breaks into the car and steals the gun and within a day or so, or even a number of hours, murders someone on the street.

So the one thing we know is that permit holders do an amazing effectively job of arming criminals with their lost and stolen guns.

That obviously causes a lot of problems. And then, you also cause a lot of problems for police, and anything that causes problems for police tends to make all crime go up, because the police are such an important force in restraining crime.

We’ve seen this with the Philando Castile case in Minneapolis. The guy was a permit-holder and as soon as the cop heard he was carrying a gun, you could see that he became much more nervous and ended up shooting Castile, because he thought he was reaching for the gun when he was in fact reaching for his driver’s license.

So I don’t think it’s any surprise that police in the United States kill a lot more people than police in other industrialized nations -- not that they have fewer criminals than we have; there are just many fewer people walking around with guns, and police feel a lot more nervous when they’re meeting angry people with guns than they would in England or France or Germany or Japan, where they’re meeting angry people, but the worst that’s going to happen is they’re carrying a knife.

Such bullshit

I've had a CC permit for over 30 years and in my real experience not "synthetic" experience people who carry do not draw their weapon at every provocation in fact most are likely to avoid situations where some idiot might start something

 

[Blues Man]

Interesting study:

The way I try to frame it is, right-to-carry laws can increase crime, violent crime, by maybe 13 or 15% over a 10-year period. Some factors decrease crime, some factors increase crime. Increasing incarceration tends to push down crime, increasing police tends to push down crime, and allowing citizens to carry handguns tends to push up crime.

Does carrying a gun make you safer? No. In fact, right-to-carry laws increase violent crime

I have seen study after study that shows that crime goes down abruptly when concealed carry is instituted. So I wondered where the **** you would find this bull shit and I only had to click on the link and there was the answer: a fake news site, the LA Times.

You will find all the studies claiming it goes down are done by the same person. And he's very questionable.

Such a lie!

And your "study" is complete and total bullshit as well.

If you have studies not tied to the same guy please post them.

The guy used made up data as "synthetic controls"

Therefore his conclusions are based on fictional data

 

[Blues Man]

The image that comes to mind is guys who might in one instance have solved their disagreement with fists now have guns. Is that a fair image or is it exaggerating?

Not really. Australia got a lot of props for reductions in violent crime when it put in it's draconian anti gun laws. Of course New Zealand in a very similar socioeconomic situation had the same exact violent crime reduction without any gun law changes.

Instead of punishing law abiding citizens for what criminals do, why not punish criminals harder, or work for social change that would reduce that threat.

I get your point. If we made it illegal in the USA to be gay or transexual, we would greatly reduce the criminal threats and acts against that group. They maybe suffer a little bit, but with thousands of attacks, I think it's for the better good right?

There sure are lots of examples of guns being used to settle disputes. We have a very high gun crime rate.

Yes. And it is mainly gangbanger on gangbanger. Toss them in prison forever and the problem is vastly reduced.

We have the highest incarceration rate in the world.

and most of those are nonviolent crimes like drug possession and property crimes

we lock up the wrong people

 

[Blues Man]

Not really. Australia got a lot of props for reductions in violent crime when it put in it's draconian anti gun laws. Of course New Zealand in a very similar socioeconomic situation had the same exact violent crime reduction without any gun law changes.

Instead of punishing law abiding citizens for what criminals do, why not punish criminals harder, or work for social change that would reduce that threat.

I get your point. If we made it illegal in the USA to be gay or transexual, we would greatly reduce the criminal threats and acts against that group. They maybe suffer a little bit, but with thousands of attacks, I think it's for the better good right?

There sure are lots of examples of guns being used to settle disputes. We have a very high gun crime rate.

Yes. And it is mainly gangbanger on gangbanger. Toss them in prison forever and the problem is vastly reduced.

We have the highest incarceration rate in the world.

You mean that other countries do not lock up criminals and just let them roam free?

I mean countries with much lower crime rates have fewer incarcerated.

The US isn't even in the top 10 in crimes per capita

Countries Compared by Crime > Total crimes per 1000. International Statistics at NationMaster.com

 

[Blues Man]

I call bs on that LA Times article. I know for a fact my brother would be dead if he never carried. He LEGALLY carried (s) a concealed weapon. Stopped at a gas station/store combo......guy walks up to my brother pointing a gun on him telling him to give his money, or he was going to shoot him.
My brother reached inside his vehicle and got his gun, and my brother shot they guy.


Turned out the guy was a known drug dealer. Police knew him the second they saw him. YES it was a horrible situation, and one my brother has had to live with and come to terms with for several years now. I doubt he has or ever will, but it was either my brother or the drug dealer. And yes, the dealer is dead. He was not carrying legally. He was a drug dealing thug. If my brother didn't have protection, he would be the dead one.

People easily can get illegal guns.

Few people are killed by complete strangers. It was a robbery attempt, not a homicide.

No it was a robbery attempt that actually DID turn into a homicide. And how many are ''few''??

Well I should specify. Most victims know their killer or are themselves criminals. Very, very few law abiding citizens are killed by a stranger.

Bull.

You don't follow crime statistics obviously.

and you follow made up ones

 

[SavannahMann]

Are you really making the point that criminals doing criminal acts isn't the cause, but law abiding people being victims of criminals rather is?

Stop the criminal. Michael Jordan and Nike didn't cause kids to get robbed and shot. Criminals wanting his shoes did.

From the link:
The image that comes to mind is guys who might in one instance have solved their disagreement with fists now have guns. Is that a fair image or is it exaggerating?

Well, I think that there are many ways in which right-to-carry laws cause problems. One is as you said, and there are some obvious examples just in the last couple of weeks. In one case, a guy in Pennsylvania was merging in traffic and an 18-year-old girl cut in front of him and enraged him, and he just took out his gun, which he had a concealed-carry permit for, and shot her in the head and just drove off – killed her.

Then a couple of days later, in Seattle, a guy was riding home in an Uber from a wedding, and he had had too much to drink, and he and his wife got into a heated argument and he just took out a gun and shot her in the head. I suspect both of these cases would not have happened had the guy not had a concealed carry permit. There wouldn’t have been a gun around, and you know if you get really angry carrying a gun, it’s more likely something bad will happen.

But there are also so many other ways in which carrying concealed handguns creates problems. One huge way is that guns are much more likely to be stolen when you’re taking them around town and walking around. We see this quite a bit in California over the last couple of years. A number of incidents in San Francisco got a lot of headlines when somebody left their gun in their car – a permit holder – and somebody breaks into the car and steals the gun and within a day or so, or even a number of hours, murders someone on the street.

So the one thing we know is that permit holders do an amazing effectively job of arming criminals with their lost and stolen guns.

That obviously causes a lot of problems. And then, you also cause a lot of problems for police, and anything that causes problems for police tends to make all crime go up, because the police are such an important force in restraining crime.

We’ve seen this with the Philando Castile case in Minneapolis. The guy was a permit-holder and as soon as the cop heard he was carrying a gun, you could see that he became much more nervous and ended up shooting Castile, because he thought he was reaching for the gun when he was in fact reaching for his driver’s license.

So I don’t think it’s any surprise that police in the United States kill a lot more people than police in other industrialized nations -- not that they have fewer criminals than we have; there are just many fewer people walking around with guns, and police feel a lot more nervous when they’re meeting angry people with guns than they would in England or France or Germany or Japan, where they’re meeting angry people, but the worst that’s going to happen is they’re carrying a knife.

A couple things. I see how the study got the numbers. Their San Francisco example. It wasn’t a citizen licensed to carry in California. Citizens have a hell of a hard time getting a permit in California. It was a cop. A LEO who left his gun in the car. He wasn’t licensed to carry, it was his job. Even if you had your dream scenario as reality, that guns were not in the hands of private citizens, but only in the hands of police, then that incident would still have happened.

That tells us a great deal about the methodology of the study. The authors of the study are taking every incident where a gun was present, even if it was not involved. One example they used was the Philando Castile shooting. Where the cop was charged with the shooting. Charged with a crime.

The Author’s of the study used that as proof that the police would not have shot Castile if there were no gun present. That is laughable considering how many are shot who are unarmed. In Georgia, the study from the Atlanta Journal and Constitution, half of the people shot by Police, were unarmed, or shot in the back. Half.

The Authors decided what results they wanted, and figured out how to collect and organize the data to show what they wanted to see.

In an earlier reply, one poster told the story of his Brother who was attacked/robbed by another man with a gun. You dismiss the story of the Brother saving his own life, by dismissing it as a simple robbery. The Robbery works because of the threat of injury, or death, in an effort to coerce property away from you. Unless you are saying that we should not take such a threat seriously, then dismissing such incidents, which I am sure the Author’s of this report did, or lumping them into proof that guns cause death, which I bet they also did, is dishonest to say the least.

 

[Claudette]

I call bs on that LA Times article. I know for a fact my brother would be dead if he never carried. He LEGALLY carried (s) a concealed weapon. Stopped at a gas station/store combo......guy walks up to my brother pointing a gun on him telling him to give his money, or he was going to shoot him.
My brother reached inside his vehicle and got his gun, and my brother shot the guy.


Turned out the guy was a known drug dealer. Police knew him the second they saw him. YES it was a horrible situation, and one my brother has had to live with and come to terms with for several years now. I doubt he has or ever will, but it was either my brother or the drug dealer. And yes, the dealer is dead. He was not carrying legally. He was a drug dealing thug. If my brother didn't have protection, he would be the dead one.

People easily can get illegal guns.

Yup glad to see your brother took charge and saved his own life.

As for carrying??

No one wants to ever have to use a gun but needing a gun and having it is it is better than needing it and not having it.

Common Sense.

 

[koshergrl]

Over 2,000 people shot in Chicago so far this year. Who is doing this?

Black criminals and suicides.

 

[koshergrl]

Another lib troll post. These liars never stop. Countless lives have been saved by carrying. countless crimes deterred.

It's a post about an actual study that was done.

Fake news, done by lying liberals.

Digging up bones huh? This thread is over a year and a half old.

Idiots think that the only information that is relevant happened today.

Leftists hate history. It exposes them and makes the "never again" option a reality.

 

[Rustic]

Interesting study:

The way I try to frame it is, right-to-carry laws can increase crime, violent crime, by maybe 13 or 15% over a 10-year period. Some factors decrease crime, some factors increase crime. Increasing incarceration tends to push down crime, increasing police tends to push down crime, and allowing citizens to carry handguns tends to push up crime.

Does carrying a gun make you safer? No. In fact, right-to-carry laws increase violent crime

 

[DigitalDrifter]

I don't have guns for safety, that's just a side benefit for me.