Do You Think The Fast & Furious Scandal Is Worse Than Watergate Scandal?

[BlindBoo]

I think he's taken a different strategy. His strategy now is to give automatic weapons to terrorists who in turn kill people, then he'll use that to fuel propaganda about how law abiding americans will become terrorists who kill people if given the chance to buy semi automatic weapons.

But the Drug Cartels would be and have been killing innocents before and after F&F. Couldn't they just use the already occuring violence to brainwash people? Why after sending about 1% of the weapon these cartel buy each year would it make any difference at all?

Hey I'm trying to think of any possible explanation as to why an anti-gun nut would want to give automatic weapons to terrorists that have a motive to kill americans.

Okay B+ for trying. But were the ATF agents really anti-gun nuts?

 

[paulitician]

'Hope & Change.' How ya like me now? Man, is there any promise this President hasn't broken? Now he's suddenly all about that Executive Privilege. Gawd, Obamabots are such silly dupes.

Not half as silly as you make yourself look almost every day on these boards. You are a robot of the right.

Yes we know, you're all about that Executive Privilege now too. But if an 'R' was in there, you would be here screeching for Impeachment 24/7. You're not fooling anyone...except yourself.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

But the Drug Cartels would be and have been killing innocents before and after F&F. Couldn't they just use the already occuring violence to brainwash people? Why after sending about 1% of the weapon these cartel buy each year would it make any difference at all?

Hey I'm trying to think of any possible explanation as to why an anti-gun nut would want to give automatic weapons to terrorists that have a motive to kill americans.

Okay B+ for trying. But were the ATF agents really anti-gun nuts?

Don't know but their bosses the one that gave them the green light and provided the funds for the program are. By the way big sis new about fast and the furious when terry was killed.

 

[Dr.Drock]

But the Drug Cartels would be and have been killing innocents before and after F&F. Couldn't they just use the already occuring violence to brainwash people? Why after sending about 1% of the weapon these cartel buy each year would it make any difference at all?

Hey I'm trying to think of any possible explanation as to why an anti-gun nut would want to give automatic weapons to terrorists that have a motive to kill americans.

Okay B+ for trying. But were the ATF agents really anti-gun nuts?

So you're sticking with the ignorance defense for Holder?

 

[The T]

But the Drug Cartels would be and have been killing innocents before and after F&F. Couldn't they just use the already occuring violence to brainwash people? Why after sending about 1% of the weapon these cartel buy each year would it make any difference at all?

Hey I'm trying to think of any possible explanation as to why an anti-gun nut would want to give automatic weapons to terrorists that have a motive to kill americans.

Okay B+ for trying. But were the ATF agents really anti-gun nuts?

ATF Agents follow orders DERP.

 

[BlindBoo]

It all depends on who is telling the story Boo. A commentator that frequents Salon.com or Daily Kos is going to have a much different perspective and is likely to believe much different things that will a commentator that frequents Townhall or World Net Daily. Those who want to promote the ideological perspective will go to such sites to get them. Those of us who want the truth rather than the propaganda check a lot of different sources rather than depend on one to give us the whole story.

I gave you a link at least as credible as yours to counter your link. That is a fundamental of real debate rather than just throwing stuff at the wall hoping something will stick.

If this F&F scandal gains legs and Holder is held accountable, there will be post mortems for years afterward trying to dig up exhoneration or more dirt on both the Attorney General's office and any culpability that can be attached to Obama. Obama lovers will deplore such digging expeditions; Obama critics will applaud them and post them on message boards.

And life goes on.
The fact is that President Bush, his entire cabinet and other advisors, essentially all of Congress, all of the U.N., and most heads of state and Arab nations believed Saddam had WMD whether or not they thought it imperative to invade to destroy them. Armchair quarter backing and attacking a hated President after the fact is politics, not objective reporting.

That claim is not entirely true because it attempts to make equal Bush and the U.N. and others, when in fact they were as different as night and day.

Yes, the U.N. and others believed that Iraq had WMD. The difference, however, is in degree.

The U.N. believed that Hussein may have had some weapons of mass destruction, in the form of limited stockpiles of chemical and perhaps some biological weapons. But they did not believe them to be an immediate threat, and did not believe they would leave the country; they believed, in short, that Hussein was contained and could continue to be contained. They did not beleive he was on the path to a nuclear weapon.

President Bush was telling a different tale. They claimed massive stockpiles of freshly produced weapons. He was six months away from completing a nuclear weapon, and they claimed Hussein had operational ties with al Qaeda. These facts were known well in advance of the invasion.

Again it depends on who is telling the story. A fanatical leftist who hates President Bush will tell it one way. Objective historians who have no propaganda to promote and no ax to grind tell it entirely differently. I prefer to go with objective historians rather than fanatical ideologues who hate George Bush.

I will choose to do that with the Fast and Furious situation as well.

You forgot the fanatical Righties who still praise President Bushes decision and have a definte agenda to re-write history in a more positive way for President Bush.

I will go with the facts on both matters.

 

[The T]

That claim is not entirely true because it attempts to make equal Bush and the U.N. and others, when in fact they were as different as night and day.

Yes, the U.N. and others believed that Iraq had WMD. The difference, however, is in degree.

The U.N. believed that Hussein may have had some weapons of mass destruction, in the form of limited stockpiles of chemical and perhaps some biological weapons. But they did not believe them to be an immediate threat, and did not believe they would leave the country; they believed, in short, that Hussein was contained and could continue to be contained. They did not beleive he was on the path to a nuclear weapon.

President Bush was telling a different tale. They claimed massive stockpiles of freshly produced weapons. He was six months away from completing a nuclear weapon, and they claimed Hussein had operational ties with al Qaeda. These facts were known well in advance of the invasion.

Again it depends on who is telling the story. A fanatical leftist who hates President Bush will tell it one way. Objective historians who have no propaganda to promote and no ax to grind tell it entirely differently. I prefer to go with objective historians rather than fanatical ideologues who hate George Bush.

I will choose to do that with the Fast and Furious situation as well.

You forgot the fanatical Righties who still praise President Bushes decision and have a definte agenda to re-write history in a more positive way for President Bush.

I will go with the facts on both matters.

And what Re-Write was that exactly?

Specify?

 

[BlindBoo]

Hey I'm trying to think of any possible explanation as to why an anti-gun nut would want to give automatic weapons to terrorists that have a motive to kill americans.

Okay B+ for trying. But were the ATF agents really anti-gun nuts?

ATF Agents follow orders DERP.

Yeah? You got a copy of those orders?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Okay B+ for trying. But were the ATF agents really anti-gun nuts?

ATF Agents follow orders DERP.

Yeah? You got a copy of those orders?

Are you saying obama and holder are to incompetent to run anything?

 

[BlindBoo]

Hey I'm trying to think of any possible explanation as to why an anti-gun nut would want to give automatic weapons to terrorists that have a motive to kill americans.

Okay B+ for trying. But were the ATF agents really anti-gun nuts?

So you're sticking with the ignorance defense for Holder?

As much as your sticking to conviction on little or no evidence.

 

[The T]

Okay B+ for trying. But were the ATF agents really anti-gun nuts?

ATF Agents follow orders DERP.

Yeah? You got a copy of those orders?

In ANY organization? YOU FOLLOW ORDERS or be fired...this escapes you how?

 

[The T]

ATF Agents follow orders DERP.

Yeah? You got a copy of those orders?

Are you saying obama and holder are to incompetent to run anything?

Running cover...ineptly.

Holder still can AVOID the House vote on Thursday and get out from behind Obama's trousers, DROP the EP claim and comply.

 

[BlindBoo]

ATF Agents follow orders DERP.

Yeah? You got a copy of those orders?

Are you saying obama and holder are to incompetent to run anything?

Hahahaha that's funny. Are you dreaming?

 

[MikeK]

I think it's a very interesting question. Most were very willing to crucify the President over Watergate. So what about 'Fast & Furious?' What do you think?

While the effects of the Gunrunner operation have been more destructive than the effects of the Watergate affair, one was a deliberate criminal conspiracy while the other was an effort (however stupidly conceived) to interdict criminal activity. So the factor of criminal intent is pivotal in answering this question.

 

[BlindBoo]

ATF Agents follow orders DERP.

Yeah? You got a copy of those orders?

In ANY organization? YOU FOLLOW ORDERS or be fired...this escapes you how?

Was it Holder who signed to orders or was it the head of the Phoenix branch of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF)?

 

[paulitician]

Yeah? You got a copy of those orders?

In ANY organization? YOU FOLLOW ORDERS or be fired...this escapes you how?

Was it Holder who signed to orders or was it the head of the Phoenix branch of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF)?

I still don't get why you're defending Holder so vigorously. What do you owe him? Why sell your soul for him?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Yeah? You got a copy of those orders?

In ANY organization? YOU FOLLOW ORDERS or be fired...this escapes you how?

Was it Holder who signed to orders or was it the head of the Phoenix branch of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF)?

Are you saying holder has no control of his departments? Are you saying he's incompetent?

 

[The T]

In ANY organization? YOU FOLLOW ORDERS or be fired...this escapes you how?

Was it Holder who signed to orders or was it the head of the Phoenix branch of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF)?

Are you saying holder has no control of his departments? Are you saying he's incompetent?

Short answer? *YES*

And he as Obama...got CAUGHT. Blind Boob is making excuses for the EP.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Was it Holder who signed to orders or was it the head of the Phoenix branch of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF)?

Are you saying holder has no control of his departments? Are you saying he's incompetent?

Short answer? *YES*

And he as Obama...got CAUGHT. Blind Boob is making excuses for the EP.

obama chose an incompetent person to run the DOJ. No wonder that gave out all those wacky directives about right wingers being terrorist they don't have a clue what they are doing.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Are you saying holder has no control of his departments? Are you saying he's incompetent?

Short answer? *YES*

And he as Obama...got CAUGHT. Blind Boob is making excuses for the EP.

obama chose an incompetent person to run the DOJ. No wonder that gave out all those wacky directives about right wingers being terrorist they don't have a clue what they are doing.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nM0asnCXD0]Eric Holder "Brainwash People" about Guns - YouTube[/ame]