Do You Support The "Gun Show Loophole?"

[Black_Label]

LOL! Then, everyone will meet in parking lots to sell, having arranged their meetings on Craigslist.

What should happen is we stop trying to punish the weapon, as if it's the problem. Instead, we need to deal more effectively with those who would victimize us.

Guns should only be sold at gun stores, if you have a gun to sell, sell it on consignment at the gun store. VERY VERY simple measure.

Cars should only be sold at "dealerships". If you have a car to sell, sell it on "consignment". It doesn't make a lot of sense, does it?

All cars require a title of ownership, as well as the vin number to be on file with the state. Not to mention insurance and registration to use the car.

Firearms require none of the above.

 

[Polk]

Also, for those arguing about the intersection of guns and race, remember that the "Klan agenda of gun control" was supported by none other than Ronald Reagan.

 

[tap4154]

I'm not about to read the entire thread, but I just voted no.

In CA there is no GS loophole anyway, but I do want to keep guns out of the hands of felons and mentally ill folks, and gladly filled out the paperwork and waited 10 days recently to pick up an AR-15 lower receiver. ALL my guns have been purchased legally, yet I feel like I'm the one being punished each time a scofflaw lunatic acts out, by having more restrictions put on me!

 

[Uncensored2008]

You can't make the changes retroactive.

Besides, laws don't apply to member of the King's court.

Laws are for the little people - Barack Obama.

 

[Polk]

The law doesn't apply when it wasn't violated in the first place.

 

[Uncensored2008]

The law doesn't apply when it wasn't violated in the first place.

Yes, selling guns to foreign nationals is a federal felony - for the little people, but perfectly legal for Holder, who is above the law applied to commoners.

 

[Polk]

The law doesn't apply when it wasn't violated in the first place.

Yes, selling guns to foreign nationals is a federal felony - for the little people, but perfectly legal for Holder, who is above the law applied to commoners.

The particular law doesn't apply to federal agencies .

 

[OriginalShroom]

I actually like the last bit of news..

That Congress was going to increase the punishment for Straw purchasers.

I only hope that they make it retroactive and prosecute those who ordered the FFL holders to sell those gun that were used in Fast and Furious under it.

You can't make the changes retroactive.

Sure you can. Clinton and the Democrats did it twice.

Once when they made the tax increases retroactive and the second time when they passed the Violence against Women act and made past Domestic Violence convictions, admissions of guilt, and pleas of No Contest fall under the law for the person not being able to own any firearms.

There were reports of Police Officers and Military who were retroactively affected and lost their jobs because of it.

 

[Black_Label]

The law doesn't apply when it wasn't violated in the first place.

Yes, selling guns to foreign nationals is a federal felony - for the little people, but perfectly legal for Holder, who is above the law applied to commoners.

Under private sales you can sell to anyone with no questions asked.

Hell you can be a known terrorist and still acquire guns, 100% legally even with a federal background check.

 

[Polk]

I actually like the last bit of news..

That Congress was going to increase the punishment for Straw purchasers.

I only hope that they make it retroactive and prosecute those who ordered the FFL holders to sell those gun that were used in Fast and Furious under it.

You can't make the changes retroactive.

Sure you can. Clinton and the Democrats did it twice.

Once when they made the tax increases retroactive and the second time when they passed the Violence against Women act and made past Domestic Violence convictions, admissions of guilt, and pleas of No Contest fall under the law for the person not being able to own any firearms.

There were reports of Police Officers and Military who were retroactively affected and lost their jobs because of it.

A change in tax rates is not a punishment for a crime, nor are restrictions on gun ownership by convicts.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Under private sales you can sell to anyone with no questions asked.

Holder directed a federal firearms dealer to sell to the Mexican drug cartels.

Hell you can be a known terrorist and still acquire guns, 100% legally even with a federal background check.

False, as you know.

To knowingly sell to a criminal is illegal - always has been. Private sales simply are not required to do background checks.

 

[Polk]

Key word: knowingly. Good luck proving that in court.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Key word: knowingly. Good luck proving that in court.

Where you go off the rails is in your imagining that your neighbor would WANT to sell their gun to a criminal.

 

[ima]

LOL! Then, everyone will meet in parking lots to sell, having arranged their meetings on Craigslist.

What should happen is we stop trying to punish the weapon, as if it's the problem. Instead, we need to deal more effectively with those who would victimize us.

Guns should only be sold at gun stores, if you have a gun to sell, sell it on consignment at the gun store. VERY VERY simple measure.

And property must only be sold through a Government Approved dealer, Cars can only be sold through a Government Approved Dealer, Food can only be sold by an Government Aprroved Dealer.

Sorry, not relevant. It's like saying if we legalize marijuana, we have to legalize every drug. We're not talking about every transaction, we're talking about guns. Please try again with more integrity.

 

[Polk]

Key word: knowingly. Good luck proving that in court.

Where you go off the rails is in your imagining that your neighbor would WANT to sell their gun to a criminal.

They're more than willing to do it, for a premium.

 

[Uncensored2008]

They're more than willing to do it, for a premium.

Barack Obama is your neighbor?

 

[Polk]

Would you like to provide any sort of evidence for your outlandish claim that Obama is selling guns to drug cartels for personal enrichment?

I'd even settle for you attempting to provide support for claims you made earlier in the thread that have been debunked.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Would you like to provide any sort of evidence for your outlandish claim that Obama is selling guns to drug cartels for personal enrichment?

Would you like to provide any sort of evidence for your outlandish claim that your neighbors are selling guns to criminals for personal enrichment?

I can prove the Eric Holder sold guns to Mexican drug cartels.

{Any person who willfully violates these provisions "shall upon conviction be fined for each violation not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both."

There have been some reports of agents having directly transferred firearms to drug cartel buyers, in order to boost their "street creds." That'd clearly be a violation. In other situations, the person who actually exported the firearms would be in clear violation. But what of those government supervisors who allowed the arms to flow -- especially the cases where a protesting FFL was told to sell the guns anyway?

18 U.S. Code §2 provides:

"§ 2. Principals

(a) Whoever commits an offense against the United States or aids, abets, counsels, commands, induces or procures its commission, is punishable as a principal.

(b) Whoever willfully causes an act to be done which if directly performed by him or another would be an offense against the United States, is punishable as a principal."}

Of Arms and the Law: Did Fast & Furious violate the Arms Export Control Act?

The Obama administration is a criminal organization and engaged in federal felonies - that is irrefutable fact, per the above statutes.

The "personal gain" Obama gets from this is furtherance of his war against basic civil liberty. Increased gun violence to support his drive to confiscate and outlaw gun ownership by commoners.

Now about the libel you levied against your neighbors?

I'd even settle for you attempting to provide support for claims you made earlier in the thread that have been debunked.

Debunked?

ROFL

Sure, sparky...

 

[OriginalShroom]

You can't make the changes retroactive.

Sure you can. Clinton and the Democrats did it twice.

Once when they made the tax increases retroactive and the second time when they passed the Violence against Women act and made past Domestic Violence convictions, admissions of guilt, and pleas of No Contest fall under the law for the person not being able to own any firearms.

There were reports of Police Officers and Military who were retroactively affected and lost their jobs because of it.

A change in tax rates is not a punishment for a crime, nor are restrictions on gun ownership by convicts.

So you seem to be saying that if Congress makes any form of child abuse an automatic death penalty, anyone in the past who has been convicted, plead guilty to, or even plead No Contest, to child abuse, they should be all rounded up and killed.

Am I right?

After all, Additional punishment was added to the punishment assigned by the court in those cases and Domestic Violence is often not a felony charge or a Class 5/D Felony. Yet by Federal law, once convicted, or if they had ever been convicted prior to the passage of the law, they lost their 2nd Amendment Rights.

 

[Polk]

Would you like to provide any sort of evidence for your outlandish claim that Obama is selling guns to drug cartels for personal enrichment?

Would you like to provide any sort of evidence for your outlandish claim that your neighbors are selling guns to criminals for personal enrichment?

I can prove the Eric Holder sold guns to Mexican drug cartels.

{Any person who willfully violates these provisions "shall upon conviction be fined for each violation not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both."

There have been some reports of agents having directly transferred firearms to drug cartel buyers, in order to boost their "street creds." That'd clearly be a violation. In other situations, the person who actually exported the firearms would be in clear violation. But what of those government supervisors who allowed the arms to flow -- especially the cases where a protesting FFL was told to sell the guns anyway?

18 U.S. Code §2 provides:

"§ 2. Principals

(a) Whoever commits an offense against the United States or aids, abets, counsels, commands, induces or procures its commission, is punishable as a principal.

(b) Whoever willfully causes an act to be done which if directly performed by him or another would be an offense against the United States, is punishable as a principal."}

Of Arms and the Law: Did Fast & Furious violate the Arms Export Control Act?

The Obama administration is a criminal organization and engaged in federal felonies - that is irrefutable fact, per the above statutes.

The "personal gain" Obama gets from this is furtherance of his war against basic civil liberty. Increased gun violence to support his drive to confiscate and outlaw gun ownership by commoners.

Now about the libel you levied against your neighbors?

I'd even settle for you attempting to provide support for claims you made earlier in the thread that have been debunked.

Debunked?

ROFL

Sure, sparky...

Are you actually dumb enough to believe that every gun used in the commission of a crime is stolen?

Also, perhaps you (and your blogger pal) should read the statute. It's true that "Any person who willfully violates any provision of this section... shall upon conviction be fined for each violation not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both." That's 22 USC § 2778 (c). The problem for your argument is that 22 USC § 2778 (b)(1)(A)(1) makes it clear that the actions in question are not violations because the federal government is exempt from the statute.

22 USC § 2778 (b)(1)(A)(1)

As prescribed in regulations issued under this section, every person (other than an officer or employee of the United States Government acting in an official capacity) who engages in the business of manufacturing, exporting, or importing any defense articles or defense services designated by the President under subsection (a)(1) of this section shall register with the United States Government agency charged with the administration of this section, and shall pay a registration fee which shall be prescribed by such regulations.