Do you support BANNING health insurance?

[Little-Acorn]

60 years ago most Americans (it's capitalized) didn't have links to back up their claims.
Apparently some still don't.

It was cheaper because pretty much all doctors could do for a lot of situations was say, "You're going to die!"

What do you know? Little pogo was actually right. For a change.

 

[Little-Acorn]

Do you support BANNING health insurance?


Of course not.

I merely support banning government from having anything to do with health insurance. Except for their legitimate functions of prosecuting fraud and coercion.

 

[Tom Horn]

All health insurance does for you these days is to try to scoot your ass out of the hospital bed as quick as they can whether you're healed or not. Take away the high insurance premiums and healthcare costs have to go down...what choice will doctors and hospitals have? Back in the mid-80's I had some surgery...was in for 3 days, and about shit when I saw the bill. I called and wanted an explanation....the woman asked if I wanted the bill reduced...DUH yeah...and they knocked a third off because my insurance refused to pay until I hired an attorney.

 

[Arianrhod]

Do you support BANNING health insurance?


Of course not.

I merely support banning government from having anything to do with health insurance. Except for their legitimate functions of prosecuting fraud and coercion.

Yeah, we remember you speaking up when they passed laws barring purchasing insurance across state lines. Oh, wait.

Then there were all those perks to the insurance companies thanks to their lobbyists, not to mention Big Pharma. You were very outspoken then. Oh, wait.

 

[healthmyths]

OTOH If we did things my way and banned health insurance, health care would cost about 1/20th what it does now and everyone could afford it.

Exactly how would health insurance cost 1/20th what it costs now if no one had insurance?
It really does cost money to pay for the hospitals, the time spent by doctors, nurses, lab technicians, etc. to provide the health care.

You can't read . I said health CARE would cost 1/20th as much. As for hospital costs, does it really cost $3000 a night to give someone a bed?? That's what the average hospital charges now and that does NOT include the doctor's fees. It's just a bed in a room with other people and they charge you $3000 every night!!!!

What you and most ignorant people seem to be unaware that hospitals have to recover costs of the UNINSURED
by charging MORE to those that pay!
You don't believe me? Here are the links to the proof!
A) 1986 EMTALA act... look it up EMTALA // ACEP
The Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA) is a federal law that requires anyone coming to an emergency department to be stabilized and treated, regardless of their insurance status or ability to pay, but since its enactment in 1986 has remained an unfunded mandate.
So what happens is hospitals OVERCHARGE insurance companies and those that can pay i.e. $10 aspirin!

You don't believe me? This is for the nation's largest hospital Florida Hospital in Orlando in 2014.
A CT Scan of which they did 25,287 patient claims.
The average charge to do the CT Scan: $3,472
The Average cost to do the CT Scan: $78
What is the markup : 4,351%! Think about it the hospital would charge $3,472 for a service that costs them $78!
WHY??? As one hospital CEO when asked "How do hospitals deal with the cost of the uninsured?
His answer: " Like any business, we pass it on to the paying customers."
http://classic.ncmedicaljournal.com/wp-content/uploads/NCMJ/mar-apr-05/Yarbrough.pdf

 

[Sun Devil 92]

60 years ago most americans did not have health insurance and health care was fine and much much cheaper. Health care works better without a third party payment system. If everyone has to pay their own medical bills.then

1. People take care of their health and when they got sick, they doctor themselves

2. People haggle with doctors over prices

3. There is very little fraud.

Sorry, but this does not fly.

Insurance is protection against "the big one" and people should be allowed to do what they want.

What I do support is banning medicare and medicaid (but not for current or soon to be seniors....basically not making new entrants into the work force pay for it)...they are why health care has gotten so costly.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

As for hospital costs, does it really cost $3000 a night to give someone a bed?? That's what the average hospital charges now and that does NOT include the doctor's fees. It's just a bed in a room with other people and they charge you $3000 every night!!!!

You pay that to cover the cost of people without health insurance or with inadequate health insurance.

Such as our 40 million illegals.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

Insurance is protection against "the big one" and people should be allowed to do what they want.

OK - then allow insurance but only with a $10,000 a year deductible. Would that satisfy you?

 

[ShootSpeeders]

What you and most ignorant people seem to be unaware that hospitals have to recover costs of the UNINSURED
by charging MORE to those that pay!
You don't believe me? Here are the links to the proof!
A) 1986 EMTALA act... look it up EMTALA // ACEP
The Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA) is a federal law that requires anyone coming to an emergency department to be stabilized and treated, regardless of their insurance status or ability to pay, but since its enactment in 1986 has remained an unfunded mandate.
So what happens is hospitals OVERCHARGE insurance companies and those that can pay i.e. $10 aspirin!

I know all about the EMTALA Act and i agree, it has to go. Esp since it applies to illegals!!!!. Yes - hospital ERs are required by law to give free emergency treatment to people that aren't even allowed to be in the country!!

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Insurance is protection against "the big one" and people should be allowed to do what they want.

OK - then allow insurance but only with a $10,000 a year deductible. Would that satisfy you?

What good is that ?

Health insurance today is not built around a set of goals. Nor does it encourage people to manage their health.

I would support something that says...if you are 85 and have stage 4 lung cancer....we are not paying for chemo.

 

[Arianrhod]

Such as our 40 million illegals.

How many times do you have to repeat that before it magically comes true? You've been asked to prove it and you can't. Maybe you need a new song.

OK - then allow insurance but only with a $10,000 a year deductible. Would that satisfy you?

For you? Absolutely. And a $1,000 a month premium.

Health insurance today is not built around a set of goals. Nor does it encourage people to manage their health.

Not entirely true. Many insurers have incentives for quitting smoking, weight loss, etc. Some will even cover at least part of a regular exercise program.

I would support something that says...if you are 85 and have stage 4 lung cancer....we are not paying for chemo.

Standard of care for stage IV lung cancer in a patient of that age (who likely has other comorbid conditions) is generally palliative. With no hope of cure, the goal is to keep the patient comfortable and as free of pain as possible.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

What you and most ignorant people seem to be unaware that hospitals have to recover costs of the UNINSURED
by charging MORE to those that pay!
You don't believe me? Here are the links to the proof!
A) 1986 EMTALA act... look it up EMTALA // ACEP
The Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA) is a federal law that requires anyone coming to an emergency department to be stabilized and treated, regardless of their insurance status or ability to pay, but since its enactment in 1986 has remained an unfunded mandate.
So what happens is hospitals OVERCHARGE insurance companies and those that can pay i.e. $10 aspirin!

I know all about the EMTALA Act and i agree, it has to go. Esp since it applies to illegals!!!!. Yes - hospital ERs are required by law to give free emergency treatment to people that aren't even allowed to be in the country!!

I will once again state that the goals of this society are not articulated anywhere.

Obama purposely avoided that conversation as part of his elitist charge.

His only comment was that "health care was a right", which it is not (it has never been and today is not qualified as a right).

Once you have those goals...you can evaluate things like this.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

I would support something that says...if you are 85 and have stage 4 lung cancer....we are not paying for chemo.

Got that right. Even if the cancer is cured, the old guy will be dead in a few years of something else.

 

[HenryBHough]

If we accept that robots are going to take most jobs then we certainly need fewer people Entirely eliminating health insurance might go a long way to thinning the herd. Long term benefit, too, in that those who naturally would have died of various genetic weaknesses (example: tendency to liberalism) would perish at a young age, ideally without existing long enough to reproduce. A stronger, healthier and less numerous population - more in keeping with the planet's ability to provide. Now what libbie could be against that?

 

[Arianrhod]

If we accept that robots are going to take most jobs then we certainly need fewer people Entirely eliminating health insurance might go a long way to thinning the herd. Long term benefit, too, in that those who naturally would have died of various genetic weaknesses (example: tendency to liberalism) would perish at a young age, ideally without existing long enough to reproduce. A stronger, healthier and less numerous population - more in keeping with the planet's ability to provide. Now what libbie could be against that?

You may accept the robot scenario, but intelligent people view it differently.

Then again, we don't try to "cure" people with copper bracelets, baking soda, apple-cider vinegar, prayer circles, exorcisms, and anti-vaxxing.

Those are the people who die. And, unfortunately, so do many of their children.

 

[HenryBHough]

You may accept the robot scenario, but intelligent people view it differently.

Then again, we don't try to "cure" people with copper bracelets, baking soda, apple-cider vinegar, prayer circles, exorcisms, and anti-vaxxing.

Those are the people who die. And, unfortunately, so do many of their children.

Just out of curiosity, what part of "IF" do you find so challenging?

 

[Sun Devil 92]

I would support something that says...if you are 85 and have stage 4 lung cancer....we are not paying for chemo.

Got that right. Even if the cancer is cured, the old guy will be dead in a few years of something else.

I prefer to think of it as a choice.

We can spend that money on his/her grandkids care (preventive) or we can throw it at a few years.

I just don't think society should foot the bill for end of life (extension of life) care in low probability situations.

 

[Arianrhod]

I would support something that says...if you are 85 and have stage 4 lung cancer....we are not paying for chemo.

Got that right. Even if the cancer is cured, the old guy will be dead in a few years of something else.

I prefer to think of it as a choice.

We can spend that money on his/her grandkids care (preventive) or we can throw it at a few years.

I just don't think society should foot the bill for end of life (extension of life) care in low probability situations.

So who gets to decide who lives and who dies? The patient, his family, the medical community, the government, Sarah Palin, you?

 

[ShootSpeeders]

So who gets to decide who lives and who dies? The patient, his family, the medical community, the government, Sarah Palin, you?

It's up to the patient. If he has the money to pay for the treatment, then he lives.

 

[Arianrhod]

So who gets to decide who lives and who dies? The patient, his family, the medical community, the government, Sarah Palin, you?

It's up to the patient. If he has the money to pay for the treatment, then he lives.

Your second sentence contradicts your first, Sarah. Try again.

Money magically cures stage IV cancers. That's a new one.