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There are some who claim they have been discriminated against in housing or employment in every country - I'm sure we could find an African or Pakistani who has made such a claim in the UK - but in Israel when such a claim is brought to the attention of the courts, if they are true, the discrimination is disallowed. You may wish to believe such discrimination is worse in Israel than it is in the US or UK or France, etc., but you have no reason to believe it is.
In fact, there is every reason to think that less discrimination is allowed to stand in Israel than in the other great democracies. From it's first days of statehood, while it was still under fire from Arabs within the new state and from without, Israel guaranteed equal rights, protections and opportunities to all of its citizens regardless of race, ethnicity, religion,etc., and no country has been more self critical than Israel concerning its performance in this area. Not only does the intense competition between political parties keep issues of social justice constantly on the table in the Knesset, and the courts and AG constantly issue their own advisory opinions, but the universities issue study after study criticizing the government and recommending remedial actions. Both right wing and left wing governments have been responsive to these criticisms throughout Israel's history.
No you are just huffing and puffing and trying to create co relations that do not exist. See below for some education.
If you were not so blinded by bigotry, you would understand that you are making my point for me; the article is based on studies coming from agencies and commissions of the Israeli government or from Israeli university, making my point that no country is as self critical as Israel or is working harder to remedy inequities among population groups.
But Israels Arab citizens are also, in many ways, second-class citizens. They have always been and still are economically and politically inferior to Jewish citizens of Israel. From Israels establishment until today, the Arab minority has been persistently discriminated against and neglected by the state (a fact that was recognized by the Orr Commission, an Israeli government-appointed body headed by former Supreme Court judge Theodore Orr). Official Israeli sources such as the Central Bureau of Statistics have reported for many years on the inferior socio-economic conditions of the Arabs in areas such as education, housing, health, welfare and employment. More than 50% of Arabs in Israel are living in poverty.
Over the last few years, the gaps between Arabs and Jews have actually increased.
To make matters worse, Arab citizens still have to contend with land confiscations, home demolitions, underfunded municipalities and discriminatory legislation. The divide between Jewish and Arab citizens of Israel remains the deepest and most problematic cleavage within the country.
-snip-
here is a real and growing fear within the Arab minority that their rights are under attack and in serious jeopardy. Many Arab citizens in Israel worry about severe infringements on their civil rights, the revocation of their citizenship, and even expulsion from the state (in the context of a territorial exchange with a future Palestinian state). These anxieties have been stoked by the introduction in the Knesset of a number of anti-Arab bills and by the inflammatory rhetoric of prominent right-wing Jewish politicians. Nor are these fears misplaced. A third of Israeli Jews now support revoking the voting rights of Arab citizens.
Ilan Peleg and Dov Waxman: Israel
Certainly, no one is denying that despite Israeli legal guarantees of equality, inequities exist among various minority groups, but this is no different from the situation in the other great democracies such as the UK, the US and France. The statistics concerning poverty among ethnic minorities in the UK are similar to those in Israel.
Around two-fifths of people from ethnic minorities live in low-income households, twice the rate for White people.
Within this, there are big variations by ethnic group. More specifically, the proportion of people who live in low-income households is:
◦20% for White people.
◦30% for Indians and Black Caribbeans.
◦50% for Black Africans.
◦60% for Pakistanis.
◦70% for Bangladeshis.
The proportion of people from ethnic minorities who live in low-income households declined during the late 1990s and early 2000s but has been rising since then. The net result is that the proportion in 2008/09 was lower than that of a decade previously, but only by a bit.
Each ethnic group has seen a similar (small) fall over the last decade in the proportion of people from ethnic minorities who live in low-income households. The net results are a) that the gap between the proportion for ethnic minorities and that for White people is the same as a decade ago and b) that the ethnic groups with the greatest risk of low income are the same as a decade ago (i.e. Bangladeshi and Pakistani).
For all ages, people from ethnic minorities are, on average, much more likely to live in low-income households than White people. For example, almost half of all children from ethnic minorities live in low-income households compared to a quarter of White British children. The differences are, however, less for pensioners than for either children or working-age adults.
For all family work statuses, people from ethnic minorities are, on average, more likely to live in low-income households than White people. Whilst these differences are relatively small for workless families, they are proportionally much bigger for working families. In particular, part-working families from ethnic minorities are almost twice as likely to be in low income as part-working White British families: 45% compared to 25%.
Among those in working families, around 65% of Bangladeshis, 50% of Pakistanis and 30% of Black Africans are in low income. These rates are much higher than those for White British (10%), White other, Indians and Black Caribbeans (all 15-20%).
In all parts of the country, people from ethnic minorities are, on average, more likely to live in low-income households than White British people. The differences are, however, much higher in inner London and the English North and Midlands than in the rest of the United Kingdom.
Although, overall, the rate of low income is much higher in London than in the rest of the country (see the indicator on location of low income), the rate of low income for White British people in London is actually similar to that in the rest of the United Kingdom.
More than half of people living in low-income households in London are from ethnic minorities. This is as a result of the high proportion of people from ethnic minorities in London who are in low income combined with the high proportion of the total population in London who are from ethnic minorities.
For a discussion of the reasons for the differences in poverty rates between ethnic groups, see the 2007 report entitled Poverty among ethnic groups: how and why does it differ? The main conclusion of this report is that around half of the differences are due to differences in family composition and work status but that the other half of the differences must be due to other factors such as the prevalence of low pay.
UK: low income and ethnicity - The Poverty Site
Quote: Originally Posted by toomuchtime_
In fact, the Ministry of Education allocates exactly the same amount of money for each Israeli student, Arab or Jewish. and in terms of regular classroom hours, Arabic language schools and Hebrew language schools have the same amount of money for each student. The claims of discrimination come from the way the part of the budget intended for special needs students is distributed. Again, the money is allocated according to how many students are in each school, without regard to whether they are Arab or Jewish, but the Arabic language schools had so many more special needs students than the Hebrew language schools that there was less money to spend on each Arab special needs student than there was to spend on each Jewish special needs student.
In 2009, Hebrew University issued a study that claimed the effect of the method of distribution of special needs money was discriminatory despite the fact that the same amount of special needs money was allocated for each student, and the Netanyahu government immediately changed the method of distribution by phasing in a plan under which all special needs money will be allocated according how many special needs students each school had, rather than how many total students the school had, so that the same amount of money would be available for each special needs student, Arab or Jewish. Of course, this will mean that there will be less money available for Jewish special needs students than there is now unless the education budget is increased and that per capita Israel will be spending more money on its Arab students than on its Jewish students.
King of spin! I have seen the breakdown and the special needs have the poor arabs at the lowest need.
Had you been able to understand my post, you would have realized that I acknowledged that Arab special needs students received less special needs money per capita than Jewish special needs students under the old system of distribution, but that in 2009, soon after taking office, Netanyahu's government began changing the system of distribution in a way that will guarantee the same amount of special needs money will be available for each special needs student, not in response to the rantings of hate mongers such as yourself but in response to a critical study from Hebrew University. Once again, this illustrates how intensely self critical Israelis are with respect to inequities between Israel's Jewish and Arab citizens and how alll Israeli governments, whether on the left or the right, are responsive to these internal criticisms.
Quote: Originally Posted by toomuchtime_
Virtually, all the democracies have put an enormous amount of work into fighting racism and the discrimination it can engender despite laws forbidding it, and no country has worked harder at this that Israel has, yet large segments of some minority populations remain disadvantaged in education and employment in all the great democracies. The fact is that under the same circumstances some minorities succeed and some minorities fail, and part of the reason has to be the cultures within the family and the respective communities either encourage success or encourage resignation and defeat.
50% of Arabs are in poverty. 2/3rds of Israelis who are in poverty are Arabs despite them only being 1/5th of the population. Get real
As we saw above, the statistics defining poverty among Israel's minorities are very similar to the UK's, and if we checked the numbers that would be similar to those for African Americans and Hispanics in the US and North Africans in France. Obviously, all the great democracies have found these problems difficult to deal with these problems, so despite your desire to convince people that conditions are worse for minorities in Israel all the studies indicate they are the same in virtually all the great democracies.
Like I said, the opportunity to study abroad has always received sponsorship with the hope that people will find a better life abroad, better possibilities abroad or meet a loved one. Of course they will find better possibilities.
Only in your excited imagination would the Ministry of Education devise a scholarship program in the hope the students would fall in love with a foreigner and move away, especially since the overwhelming majority of Arab Israelis and Jewish Israelis would rather live in Israel than anywhere else in the world. Most likely if any of these students did fall in love abroad, they would try to persuade their boy/girlfriend to return with them to Israel.
77% [ of Arab Israelis would rather live in Israel as Israeli citizens than in any other country in the world.[238][23
Arab citizens of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I trust you have had no secondary education. My arguments have been on situations. You do not like hearing about this so, like someone in the playground you believe you can throw in a 'racist' taunt. Nothing racist about what I have written so you have simply illustrated your lack of understanding of the word...or was it just a little bait. I was perfectly courteous to you so you wanted a little flaming, got it.
Your "arguments" are all based on lies either of your own invention or those you have copied uncritically from racist hate sites.
You will find what I was referring to at no 2 in this list of intended new bills
Quote:
1. Anyone denying the existence of Israel as a Jewish and democratic state faces imprisonment.
2. Government support for student tuition fees is available only for those who serve in the Israel Defence Forces.
3. An amendment of the Jerusalem Law so that Jerusalem is recognised as the capital of the Jewish people.
4. An amendment to the nationality law so that the Interior Minister has the right to revoke the citizenship of people who violate allegiance to the state of Israel.
5. The Nakba Law, which makes it illegal for citizens inside Israel to organize demonstrations on the anniversary of the creation of the Palestinian refugee catastrophe.
6. The provision for harsher sanctions against Palestinian prisoners, particularly those who are members of Hamas.
7. The withdrawal of citizenship from those convicted of terrorism or spying.
8. The withdrawal of nationality and revocation of the right of citizenship, and denying the Arab Knesset Members who visited Libya parliamentary immunity and other rights.
Israel's discrimination against its Arab citizens
So when you wrote,
Indeed I am sure I read a while back about some new rule which amounted to having to have done military service to meet the requirements for University admission and that of course would rule most of them out.
you already know there was no such law or policy, merely the draft of a proposed bill that had not been acted on. Were you too stupid to understand the difference between a draft proposal and a law or are you too evil to care?
Israel's discrimination against its Arab citizens
Rivlin: Public service shouldn't favor ex-soldiers - Israel News, Ynetnews
AG to Netanyahu: Stop bill giving preference to IDF veterans - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News
The two bills you are sourcing here are not what I was talking about. It looks like that was an attempt to take things further and to but a rubber stamp on them. Arab citizens are refused work in a great deal of public areas because they are deemed to carry a security risk. Whether this is under a law or just practice is irrelevant.
If you had been able to understand the two links I provided, you would have known they both concerned the same bill and that the President of the Knesset as well as the Attorney General both took the position that military service does not and should not carry any preferment in education or employment. Again, had you been able to understand the links I provided, you would have understood that the same proposed benefit would be available to those who had completed National Service, essentially social work among needy Israeli communities.
Arab Israelis serve in both the police and IDF, some in high level command positions, as well as in the foreign service, including some ambassadors, as well as in virtually every branch of government, so to suggest that Arab Israelis are refused public employment because Arab Israelis are believed in general to be security risks is stupid even for you. We have already learned this is the case in the UK, but clearly it is not the case in Israel.
Although various anti-discrimination legislation do exist. According to some sources most employers in the UK remain institutionally racist including public bodies such as the police [5] and particularly the legal profession.[6] It is also nearly impossible for persons subject to such institutional racism (who are normally economically disadvantaged) to seek legal redress, as in the UK public funding (legal aid) is not available at employment tribunals.[7] The situation with the implementation of Human Rights law is similar. The Terrorism Acts, which came into law in 2000 and 2006, have caused a marked increase in racial profiling and have also been the basis to justify existent trends in discrimination against persons of Muslim origin (or resembling such) by the British police.
Racism in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Poor little mite, screaming racist again. Tell me toomuchtime, do you believe Israel Jews are of one race?
If she has not already, Israel certainly has the intention of removing citizenship from Arabs.
Quote:
Israel has passed a law that eases the process of revoking citizenship in a step denounced as a move to threaten primarily its Arab minority.
The amendment to a so-called Citizenship Law was the latest in a list of parliamentary measures taken this past month that civil rights activists denounce as undemocratic but Israeli rightists see as essential to the Jewish states defense.
The measure, which passed by a vote of 37 to 11 after a stormy debate, empowers Israeli judges to deny citizenship privileges to anyone convicted of espionage or committing violence with nationalist motives.
Some of the delights of the McCarran-Walters Act that made life in McCarthyite America such an adventure.
Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman, whose ultra-nationalist party sponsored the measure, proclaimed victory after the vote, saying he had fulfilled a pledge to voters to crack down on any citizen who sides with the enemy.
Israels Association for Civil Rights issued a statement in protest saying that in a democracy you dont deny citizenship and that the measure sends a humiliating and discriminatory message that citizenship for Israeli Arabs is not automatic
Israel prepares to revoke citizenship of uppity Israeli Arabs « Eideard
The Israeli law is far more specific and offers far more protections than a law to the same effect in the UK. In Israel,
A judicial determination is required for a revocation requested by the Minister at the termination of a three-year period from the acquisition of citizenship and in cases where the person subject to the request committed an act that constitutes a "breach of loyalty to the State of Israel." Such a breach is defined as follows: (1) committing, assisting in, or enticing into the commitment of a terrorist act, including taking an active role in the activities of a terrorist organization, as defined by the Prohibition on Financing of Terrorism Law, 5765-2005; (2) committing an act that constitutes treason or aggravated espionage in accordance with the Penal Law, 5737-1977; or (3) acquiring citizenship or a right to permanent residence in a country or an area specified as Iran, Afghanistan, Libya, Sudan, Syria, Iraq, Pakistan, Yemen, and the Gaza Strip. Judicial approval for a revocation is not required within the first three years after acquisition of citizenship, if that acquisition was based on false information.
A court may decree a revocation of citizenship based on the commission of a "breach of loyalty to the State of Israel" only if the revocation will not result in the person becoming stateless
Israel: Revocation of Citizenship - Global Legal Monitor - Law Library of Congress (Library of Congress)
However, in the UK, all that is necessary to deprive a British citizen of his/her citizenship is
that "Secretary of State is satisfied that the person has done anything seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the United Kingdom etc., except in the case where such might render the person stateless."
Naturalization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Yet once again you demonstrate that not only are Israel's laws and policies in the mainstream of the other great democracies, but that Israel is far more concerned about and protective of the rights of its minority citizens than many of the other great democracies, especially the UK.
It was a question and yet your need to abuse rather than simply answer the question is beginning to suggest some mental problem. Please desist from this continual unfounded name calling. Again are you under the illusion that Israel Jews are a Race? Secondly have you so little faith in yourself and Israel that for anyone to present information or ask questions which go against your perceived view that you simply call names like the playground child.
Stop whining, little girl. In post after post you try to bait posters who support Israel with racist lies, so don't cry, "Unfair, unfair" when you get called on it.
Even for you, this is stupid. As far as the state of Israel is concerned, if you are an Israeli citizen, your nationality is Israeli. Some Arab Israelis may claim their nationality is Palestinian, but then there are probably some Palestinians who have emigrated to the UK for economic or political reasons and still claim their nationality is Palestinian.
Yet again, you demonstrate how profoundly ignorant you are about Israel and Israeli Arabs.
Still munching your name calling...so to reality.
You don't like the way I illustrated how the concept of Israel being Jewish state would be if we took out Jewish and put in white for the UK. This is a logical way to interpret it and I would imagine the way most open minded people see it.
Not only don't I like your racist characterization of Israel's demand to be recognized as the Jewish state of Israel, but neither do the overwhelming majority of Arab Israelis who are perfectly fine with it with Israel being a Jewish state.
In a 2004 survey by Sammy Smooha of the University of Haifa Jewish-Arab Center, 84.9% of Israeli Arabs stated that Israel has a right to exist as an independent state, and 70% that it has a right to exist as a democratic, Jewish state.[70][234] A Truman Institute survey from 2005 found that 63% of the Arab citizens accepted the principle that Israel is the state of the Jewish people.[70][235]
.....................................
An Israeli Democracy Institute (IDI) poll in 2007 showed that 75% of "Israeli Arabs would support a constitution that maintained Israel's status as a Jewish and democratic state while guaranteeing equal rights for minorities, while 23% said they would oppose such a definition."[237] Another survey that year showed that 62% of Israel's Arabs would prefer to remain Israeli citizens rather than become citizens of a future Palestinian state. The figure rose in a 2008 poll: 77% would rather live in Israel as Israeli citizens than in any other country in the world.[238][239]
Arab citizens of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
However don't mind my way, let's have a look at one of the people who actually fought for the creation of Israel has to say to it - an old member of the Stern Gang
I AM fed up with all this nonsense about recognizing Israel as the Jewish State
Four rightist Members of the Knesset have just submitted a bill empowering the government to refuse to register new NGOs and to dissolve existing ones if they deny the Jewish character of the state.
This new bill is only one of a series designed to curtail the civil rights of Arab citizens, as well as those of leftists.
-snip-
IN ISRAELI parlance, denying the Jewish Character of the state is tantamount to the worst of all political felonies: to claim that Israel is a State of all its Citizens.
To a foreigner, this may sound a bit weird. In a democracy, the state clearly belongs to all its citizens. Mention this in the United States, and you are stating the obvious. Mention this in Israel, and you are treading dangerously close to treason. (So much for our much-vaunted common values.)
-snip- THE DEMAND that the Palestinians recognize Israel as the Jewish State or as the Nation-State of the Jewish people is preposterous. As the British would put it, its none of their bloody business. It would be tantamount to an intervention in the
internal affairs of another country. But a friend of mine has suggested a simple way out: the Knesset can simply resolve to change the name of the state into something like The Jewish Republic of Israel, so that any peace agreement between Israel and the Arab State of Palestine will automatically include the demanded recognition.
This would also bring Israel into line with the state it most resembles: The Islamic Republic of Pakistan, which came into being almost at the same time, after the partition of India, after a gruesome mutual massacre, after the creation of a huge refugee problem and with a perpetual border war in Kashmir. And the nuclear bomb, of course.
Many Israelis would be shocked by the comparison. What, us? Similar to a theocratic state? Are we getting closer to the Pakistani model and further from the American one?
What the hell, lets simply deny it!
Uri Avnery's weekly english article
Averny is an old man who has earned his right to his opinion, and fortunately the state he helped to create has room enough for all opinions.
