Do you Social Security fearmongers realize you can't get something for nothing?

[Quantum Windbag]

Nor is it a zero sum game.

Yes it is. Try as you might, you can't get something for nothing. For every dollar performed in labor, goods, and services - there is a dollar paid or owed for labor, goods, and services - it sums to zero. If the GDP produces $X worth of goods - that means a bunch of people had to collectively give up $X of their money to get it - ZERO SUM.

Then money must be magic because GDP keeps going up.

 

[westwall]

When considering the maximum output of anything - you only need to know the limiting factors, everything else is irrelevant. Your car has a maximum speed - for instance. Say its 180 mph. Maybe if you put a couple of 300 lb fatties in the back seat like you do every Friday night, its 120 mph - or maybe if you let the car go and don't keep it up for a while, its 160 mph - but in neither case can you exceed 180 mph, can you?

What group of workers produce more. Those in a capitalistic system or a socialist system?

The ones that produce the most produce more. Doesn't matter what system they are in. Go ask the Chinese.

Yes, since they have gone capitalistic their production has skyrocketed. They are now probably more capitalistic then we are. Don't get me wrong they are a totalitarian State but they figured out that so long as they kill a few thousand of their subjects and don't let them arm themselves, they can afford to cut them a little slack. It has worked well for them so far.

 

[westwall]

Nor is it a zero sum game.

Yes it is. Try as you might, you can't get something for nothing. For every dollar performed in labor, goods, and services - there is a dollar paid or owed for labor, goods, and services - it sums to zero. If the GDP produces $X worth of goods - that means a bunch of people had to collectively give up $X of their money to get it - ZERO SUM.

Then money must be magic because GDP keeps going up.

Don't confuse him, he's a physicist not an economist

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Yes it is. Try as you might, you can't get something for nothing. For every dollar performed in labor, goods, and services - there is a dollar paid or owed for labor, goods, and services - it sums to zero. If the GDP produces $X worth of goods - that means a bunch of people had to collectively give up $X of their money to get it - ZERO SUM.

Then money must be magic because GDP keeps going up.

Don't confuse him, he's a physicist not an economist

If he was a physicist he would not argue that the laws of physics apply to economics, he would know better. On the other hand, he does claim he is qualified for SS now, maybe he is just senile.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Then money must be magic because GDP keeps going up.

Don't confuse him, he's a physicist not an economist

If he was a physicist he would not argue that the laws of physics apply to economics, he would know better. On the other hand, he does claim he is qualified for SS now, maybe he is just senile.

You'd think he would know more if he qualifies for SS....

It's almost pathetic...

You would think a 65-year-old would know more than a 31-year-old..

I'll never see a dime of what I paid into SS... He will, and he is perfectly content living off my wealth while he knows when I'm his age I will have nothing.

The older progressives are some of the most selfish motherfuckers on the planet...

In debates I have been told time and time again they could give a rats ass about my generation just as long as they got their free SSI check......

They act like my generation owes them something...................

 

[The T]

Nor is it a zero sum game.

Yes it is. Try as you might, you can't get something for nothing. For every dollar performed in labor, goods, and services - there is a dollar paid or owed for labor, goods, and services - it sums to zero. If the GDP produces $X worth of goods - that means a bunch of people had to collectively give up $X of their money to get it - ZERO SUM.

Then money must be magic because GDP keeps going up.

Indeed. What was the GDP say at the beginning of this Republic?

 

[The T]

What group of workers produce more. Those in a capitalistic system or a socialist system?

The ones that produce the most produce more. Doesn't matter what system they are in. Go ask the Chinese.

Yes, since they have gone capitalistic their production has skyrocketed. They are now probably more capitalistic then we are. Don't get me wrong they are a totalitarian State but they figured out that so long as they kill a few thousand of their subjects and don't let them arm themselves, they can afford to cut them a little slack. It has worked well for them so far.

And doesn't Cina set the price of who gets paid what?

No wonder Obama admires them.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Sorry, anyone with an accounting background would that...

There is a wealth equation/formula.....

Great. Let's see it.

Assets - liabilities = wealth.

That equation says nothing about the ability of an economy to produce. You really aren't that smart, I can tell.

BTW, its assets - liabilities = EQUITY

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

You mean like these? This trail is a few miles from my house. As far as freedoms go we are free todo pretty much whatever we want so long as we don't harm anyone else. Heck you can even get laid here, YOU. Legalised brothels for those who can't get a gal.

Prostitution is practically legal where I live. In the neighborhood I just moved from there was a brothel

No, I'm not gay but my sister is a lesbian and my daughters Godmother is likewise a lesbian (doesn't know my sister though, they live in different states) so I understand their issues.

What issues?

Last time I checked the US was a capitalistic country.

Really? You consider a country which has socialized retirement and medicine - and has for a lifetime - capitalist?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Nor is it a zero sum game.

Yes it is. Try as you might, you can't get something for nothing. For every dollar performed in labor, goods, and services - there is a dollar paid or owed for labor, goods, and services - it sums to zero. If the GDP produces $X worth of goods - that means a bunch of people had to collectively give up $X of their money to get it - ZERO SUM.

Then money must be magic because GDP keeps going up.

GDP goes up because production of goods and services are going up. They are all paid for, however, resulting in a zero sum.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Yes, since they have gone capitalistic their production has skyrocketed. They are now probably more capitalistic then we are.

Sure, if you consider single party rule by the Communist Party of China to be "more capitalistic than we are"

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Yes it is. Try as you might, you can't get something for nothing. For every dollar performed in labor, goods, and services - there is a dollar paid or owed for labor, goods, and services - it sums to zero. If the GDP produces $X worth of goods - that means a bunch of people had to collectively give up $X of their money to get it - ZERO SUM.

Then money must be magic because GDP keeps going up.

Don't confuse him, he's a physicist not an economist

Financial and economic theory is based on the same math and often times the same basic processes. For instance, options prices can be modeled using nearly the same equations that model heat diffusion.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

If he was a physicist he would not argue that the laws of physics apply to economics, he would know better.

The laws of physics apply to EVERYTHING IN THE NATURAL WORLD and they most certainly apply to economics.

On the other hand, he does claim he is qualified for SS now, maybe he is just senile.

No I didn't Please stop lying.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

I'll never see a dime of what I paid into SS...

Are you planning on dying young or do you think there will be no tax revenues in the future?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Yes it is. Try as you might, you can't get something for nothing. For every dollar performed in labor, goods, and services - there is a dollar paid or owed for labor, goods, and services - it sums to zero. If the GDP produces $X worth of goods - that means a bunch of people had to collectively give up $X of their money to get it - ZERO SUM.

Then money must be magic because GDP keeps going up.

GDP goes up because production of goods and services are going up. They are all paid for, however, resulting in a zero sum.

The fact that they are all paid for does not make it zero sum.

Zero sum is an aspect of game theory that says that every gain is balanced by a loss for another person. It assumes that the total supply is limited, and that everything has to be split among all participants. It is like cutting a cake up to feed a group of kids at a birthday party. If one child gets a bigger piece there is less for the rest to share.

GDP is the measure of total market value of an economy, and is not zero sum, because it is actually possible for everyone in the system to benefit. If one person gets a bigger piece of cake someone else bakes another one.

It is not my fault you are confusing game theory and macroeconomics. feel free to do so for the rest of your life if it makes you feel better. One thing you should be aware of though, the rest of us who understand the difference will treat your whinging about one person getting a big piece of cake when you have an entire cake of your own to eat with all the contempt and ridicule it deserves.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Then money must be magic because GDP keeps going up.

Don't confuse him, he's a physicist not an economist

Financial and economic theory is based on the same math and often times the same basic processes. For instance, options prices can be modeled using nearly the same equations that model heat diffusion.

So what?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If he was a physicist he would not argue that the laws of physics apply to economics, he would know better.

The laws of physics apply to EVERYTHING IN THE NATURAL WORLD and they most certainly apply to economics.

On the other hand, he does claim he is qualified for SS now, maybe he is just senile.

No I didn't Please stop lying.

Economics is not in the natural world, which exempts it from the laws of physics. Newton's laws certainly do not apply to it in any way.

Come to think of it, Newton's laws do not apply to everything in the natural world. They totally fail in a superconductor, and they don't work that well in a semiconductor when we try to apply them to the flow of electricity. That means that, unless you define natural world differently than most people, your statement is without merit.

 

[flacaltenn]

That's the problem -- not enough physicists on the Fed Reserve Bd... Me thinks the market always falls at the gravitional constant. And that jobs are both particles and waves. ;LOL;

No way -- no how could any intelligient being argue that our economy is a zero sum game. FOOD generation is NOT a zero sum game. If I eat -- I don't take food from your mouth. No more than one person's wages STEALS from someone else's pockets. Creation and destruction of GDP happens every hour of every day..

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Then money must be magic because GDP keeps going up.

GDP goes up because production of goods and services are going up. They are all paid for, however, resulting in a zero sum.

The fact that they are all paid for does not make it zero sum.

Zero sum is an aspect of game theory that says that every gain is balanced by a loss for another person.

And it is.

If I provide labor (physical or mental), that takes effort on my part. I lose my physical time and energy. That is a loss to me - the money I am paid is a gain, exactly equal to the loss. Therefore the sum of the liability of losing my effort and time and the gain of my income is zero.

It is not "zero sum" in the sense that there is a net production of goods and services. Take a coal mine, for instance. The coal in the Earth is useless. When the miners take it out and make it available for use - then there is a net gain of usable natural resources. But that gain is balanced by the miner's labor and by the mine owners investment risk - both of which take time, effort, and/or expose one to liability (the miner may lose an arm - the mine owner may not profit and go under)

GDP is the measure of total market value of an economy, and is not zero sum, because it is actually possible for everyone in the system to benefit. If one person gets a bigger piece of cake someone else bakes another one.

We can't make an infinite amount of cake, that should be obvious. If someone can make 5 cakes an hour, maybe if they have some automation they can extend that to 20 cakes an hour - but then, they still can't make more than 20 cakes X 168 hours = 3360 cakes per week, can they? And even that is without sleep. Sure, someone might be in the background investing in technology that would boost that person's output to 25 cakes an hour - but if that person is told to make more than 3360 cakes next week, they physically cannot.


Unfortunately, as you know, our economy is actually far from maximum production levels. In fact - at first at least, as the number of workers fails to replace the number of retirees grows every year - it will be positively beneficial, as it will put people back to work. The baby boomers will be tapping not only their SS income but all their other investments as well, and as they retire, the unemployed will take their place.

But at a certain point, when retirees exceed workers to such a degree that demand cannot be met - prices go up.


Here's another example - there is a peak rate right now at which oil can be extracted from the ground - and - there is a peak rate at which that speed of extraction can increase.Maybe the oil industry can extract X bbl/yr right now, and maybe they can extract Y bbl/year/year for every year after - but if the rate of increasing demand for oil exceeds X + Y*t - the price MUST go up.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Don't confuse him, he's a physicist not an economist

Financial and economic theory is based on the same math and often times the same basic processes. For instance, options prices can be modeled using nearly the same equations that model heat diffusion.

So what?

So physics and finance are very similar. Especially statistical physics.