Zone1 Do you know Jesus well enough to accept or reject him?

[Ace Nova]

Are you willing to forsake all of your traditions to follow Him? If the answer is no, you have rejected Him

What traditions exactly?

 

[onefour1]

jesus was

never born.

???? Do you not believe that Jesus was born of a virgin named Mary? Do you not believe the Bible?

 

[The Irish Ram]

And how many of those manuscripts were written by people who were around during the events described in the bible? You have every right to believe what you choose. I'm not convinced. Disprove the folk tale theory.

Folktales ~ stories in the oral tradition, or tales that people tell each other out loud, rather than stories in written form.
Manuscripts ~ a book, document, or piece of music written by hand.

To make sure that no errors were made by scribes copying from the original text, painstaking measures were taken to make sure the page was exact. Several proofreaders, counting letters on each line, up, down across. Counting all the letters, spaces, indentations. Religious texts were monitored even more closely.
If an error is found, the scribe was punished, and his pay was docked.

Folktales lend themselves to exaggeration. The written word does not. It remains true to the original.

 

[ding]

As always, your cut and paste skills are impressive. If you think I'm going to try to address such a wide range of topics at one time, you're dumber than I thought.

How else am I to show your conspiracy theory is unfounded other than bludgeoning you over the head with facts and evidence such as this?

Ancient Evidence for Jesus from Non-Christian Sources4

"Let's summarize what we've learned about Jesus from this examination of ancient non-Christian sources. First, both Josephus and Lucian indicate that Jesus was regarded as wise. Second, Pliny, the Talmud, and Lucian imply He was a powerful and revered teacher. Third, both Josephus and the Talmud indicate He performed miraculous feats. Fourth, Tacitus, Josephus, the Talmud, and Lucian all mention that He was crucified. Tacitus and Josephus say this occurred under Pontius Pilate. And the Talmud declares it happened on the eve of Passover. Fifth, there are possible references to the Christian belief in Jesus' resurrection in both Tacitus and Josephus. Sixth, Josephus records that Jesus' followers believed He was the Christ, or Messiah. And finally, both Pliny and Lucian indicate that Christians worshipped Jesus as God!"

 

[lg325]

How else am I to show your conspiracy theory is unfounded other than bludgeoning you over the head with facts and evidence such as this?

Ancient Evidence for Jesus from Non-Christian Sources4

"Let's summarize what we've learned about Jesus from this examination of ancient non-Christian sources. First, both Josephus and Lucian indicate that Jesus was regarded as wise. Second, Pliny, the Talmud, and Lucian imply He was a powerful and revered teacher. Third, both Josephus and the Talmud indicate He performed miraculous feats. Fourth, Tacitus, Josephus, the Talmud, and Lucian all mention that He was crucified. Tacitus and Josephus say this occurred under Pontius Pilate. And the Talmud declares it happened on the eve of Passover. Fifth, there are possible references to the Christian belief in Jesus' resurrection in both Tacitus and Josephus. Sixth, Josephus records that Jesus' followers believed He was the Christ, or Messiah. And finally, both Pliny and Lucian indicate that Christians worshipped Jesus as God!"

And when they did worship him he would pick them up and say do not worship me but my father who is in heaven.

 

[ding]

And when they did worship him he would pick them up and say do not worship me but my father who is in heaven.

And yet he did and said things that were equal to God. We can know this with certainty because that's literally what they accused him of doing.

 

[BULLDOG]

Folktales ~ stories in the oral tradition, or tales that people tell each other out loud, rather than stories in written form.
Manuscripts ~ a book, document, or piece of music written by hand.

To make sure that no errors were made by scribes copying from the original text, painstaking measures were taken to make sure the page was exact. Several proofreaders, counting letters on each line, up, down across. Counting all the letters, spaces, indentations. Religious texts were monitored even more closely.
If an error is found, the scribe was punished, and his pay was docked.

Folktales lend themselves to exaggeration. The written word does not. It remains true to the original.

Meticulous transcribing of manuscripts that were often written hundreds of years after what is being described, and are in fact, nothing more than written examples of preexisting folktales does nothing to prove the accuracy of those tales.

 

[ding]

Meticulous transcribing of manuscripts that were often written hundreds of years after what is being described, and are in fact, nothing more than written examples of preexisting folktales does nothing to prove the accuracy of those tales.

How do you explain the behaviors of the early Christians and apostles?

Because it sounds like you think this was a conspiracy theory and have absolutely zero evidence to back that up.

 

[BULLDOG]

How else am I to show your conspiracy theory is unfounded other than bludgeoning you over the head with facts and evidence such as this?

Ancient Evidence for Jesus from Non-Christian Sources4

"Let's summarize what we've learned about Jesus from this examination of ancient non-Christian sources. First, both Josephus and Lucian indicate that Jesus was regarded as wise. Second, Pliny, the Talmud, and Lucian imply He was a powerful and revered teacher. Third, both Josephus and the Talmud indicate He performed miraculous feats. Fourth, Tacitus, Josephus, the Talmud, and Lucian all mention that He was crucified. Tacitus and Josephus say this occurred under Pontius Pilate. And the Talmud declares it happened on the eve of Passover. Fifth, there are possible references to the Christian belief in Jesus' resurrection in both Tacitus and Josephus. Sixth, Josephus records that Jesus' followers believed He was the Christ, or Messiah. And finally, both Pliny and Lucian indicate that Christians worshipped Jesus as God!"

I have no doubt that there was a wide range of tales concerning somebody who might have been a great teacher. Quite a few people were considered to be Gods during that period. Can you name a single pharaoh or ruler that didn't claim to be God? None of that proves that he was the actual son of God. Especially when you consider the fact that the vast majority of transcripts were written well after his death by people whose only knowledge came from existing folk tales. How many of those transcripts came from someone who actually witnessed anything that proved he was the magic guy you think he was/is?

If you want to believe you bludgeoned me, I don't mind. As I have always said you are free to believe anything you want, no matter how wrong that might be.

 

[ding]

I have no doubt that there was a wide range of tales concerning somebody who might have been a great teacher. Quite a few people were considered to be Gods during that period. Can you name a single pharaoh or ruler that didn't claim to be God? None of that proves that he was the actual son of God. Especially when you consider the fact that the vast majority of transcripts were written well after his death by people whose only knowledge came from existing folk tales. How many of those transcripts came from someone who actually witnessed anything that proved he was the magic guy you think he was/is?

If you want to believe you bludgeoned me, I don't mind. As I have always said you are free to believe anything you want, no matter how wrong that might be.

40 or so documented miracles say it wasn't just a claim, declarations of Pharaohs notwithstanding.

 

[ding]

If you want to believe you bludgeoned me, I don't mind. As I have always said you are free to believe anything you want, no matter how wrong that might be.

I believe you have beliefs without evidence and I have beliefs based upon evidence.

 

[BULLDOG]

How do you explain the behaviors of the early Christians and apostles?

Because it sounds like you think this was a conspiracy theory and have absolutely zero evidence to back that up.

I have no need to explain their behaviors. It was the dark ages or even before. People believed all kinds of crazy shit.

 

[ding]

I have no need to explain their behaviors. It was the dark ages or even before. People believed all kinds of crazy shit.

Their behaviors are evidence, dum dum. So, yeah, you do have to explain it when you are arguing it was just folklore.

 

[BULLDOG]

I believe you have beliefs without evidence and I have beliefs based upon evidence.

Good for you. See the last paragraph in #49

 

[BULLDOG]

Their behaviors are evidence, dum dum. So, yeah, you do have to explain it when you are arguing it was just folklore.

Never said it was JUST folklore. I suppose anything is possible. Unicorns could exist somewhere. I just don't have reason to believe in them either at this point.

 

[ding]

Good for you. See the last paragraph in #49

You keep making the arguments you make and I'll keep responding to them in kind.

 

[ding]

Never said it was JUST folklore. I suppose anything is possible. Unicorns could exist somewhere. I just don't have reason to believe in them either at this point.

Then don't. I couldn't care less.

 

[BreezeWood]

And when they did worship him he would pick them up and say do not worship me but my father who is in heaven.

jesus taught liberation theology, self determination never did they worship or claim for others to do so to enslave the unsuspecting as the religion of denial they repudiated and instructed against to the very end.

 

[ding]

jesus taught liberation theology, self determination never did they worship or claim for others to do so to enslave the unsuspecting as the religion of denial they repudiated and instructed against to the very end.

 

[ninja007]

???? Do you not believe that Jesus was born of a virgin named Mary? Do you not believe the Bible?

Jesus always existed. ALWAYS. God doesnt change.