CDZ Do we really need laws about what restroom transgender people use?

[320 Years of History]

North Carolina has passed a law that requires transgender people to use the restroom associated with, not the gender they are, but the gender they used to be, the one on their birth certificate. Boy...Have we really descended to that level of puerility on a statewide level? Apparently so, for NC has indeed passed that law.

Personally, I don't see much need for gender assignments on restrooms, although as a man, I'm thrilled that we have them because, IMO, women take too damn long to "do their business." God forbid I were to attend a large event like a football game or concert and have to stand in the women's line or a "any gender" line to go to the loo. I'd surely have not gotten to the urinal in time on at least a few occasions. LOL

More seriously, however, NC's new law strikes me as just silly.

• Who carries birth certificates around all the time?
• Who is going to check whether one has or has not undergone gender reassignment surgery?
• Why would a man want to wait in the women's line to go to the loo? (I know why women would prefer to use the men's room; it's faster.)
• Is NC going to require transgender persons to wear a "T" on their outermost garment much as Hitler forced Jews to wear Stars of David to signify their status as Jews?

Restrooms are for the gender one is at the time one uses it. Rationally (not emotionally) what does the gender one used to be have to do with it? It's not as though being able to use the restroom of the opposite gender is even remotely why folks switch from one gender to the other.

 

[TNHarley]

Birth certificates don't contain a "gender", they contain a persons "sex". One is a social concept, the other is biology.
A boy could have an artificial penis and will still be a female. We cant change that, yet.
Let me ask you this : how would you feel if your 5 year old daughter was 2 feet away from a mentally ill grown man taking a piss at the mall?

 

[Asclepias]

Birth certificates don't contain a "gender", they contain a persons "sex". One is a social concept, the other is biology.
A boy could have an artificial penis and will still be a female. We cant change that, yet.
Let me ask you this : how would you feel if your 5 year old daughter was 2 feet away from a mentally ill grown man taking a piss at the mall?

The same as I would feel if she was 2 feet away from that man buying something in a store? Why would you ask such an irrelevant question?

 

[TNHarley]

Birth certificates don't contain a "gender", they contain a persons "sex". One is a social concept, the other is biology.
A boy could have an artificial penis and will still be a female. We cant change that, yet.
Let me ask you this : how would you feel if your 5 year old daughter was 2 feet away from a mentally ill grown man taking a piss at the mall?

The same as I would feel if she was 2 feet away from that man buying something in a store? Why would you ask such an irrelevant question?

Did you at least read the title of the thread? SMH

 

[Asclepias]

North Carolina has passed a law that requires transgender people to use the restroom associated with, not the gender they are, but the gender they used to be, the one on their birth certificate. Boy...Have we really descended to that level of puerility on a statewide level? Apparently so, for NC has indeed passed that law.

Personally, I don't see much need for gender assignments on restrooms, although as a man, I'm thrilled that we have them because, IMO, women take too damn long to "do their business." God forbid I were to attend a large event like a football game or concert and have to stand in the women's line or a "any gender" line to go to the loo. I'd surely have not gotten to the urinal in time on at least a few occasions. LOL

More seriously, however, NC's new law strikes me as just silly.

• Who carries birth certificates around all the time?
• Who is going to check whether one has or has not undergone gender reassignment surgery?
• Why would a man want to wait in the women's line to go to the loo? (I know why women would prefer to use the men's room; it's faster.)
• Is NC going to require transgender persons to wear a "T" on their outermost garment much as Hitler forced Jews to wear Stars of David to signify their status as Jews?

Restrooms are for the gender one is at the time one uses it. Rationally (not emotionally) what does the gender one used to be have to do with it? It's not as though being able to use the restroom of the opposite gender is even remotely why folks switch from one gender to the other.

It boggles the mind how backwards these people in NC are that made up this law.

 

[Asclepias]

Birth certificates don't contain a "gender", they contain a persons "sex". One is a social concept, the other is biology.
A boy could have an artificial penis and will still be a female. We cant change that, yet.
Let me ask you this : how would you feel if your 5 year old daughter was 2 feet away from a mentally ill grown man taking a piss at the mall?

The same as I would feel if she was 2 feet away from that man buying something in a store? Why would you ask such an irrelevant question?

Did you at least read the title of the thread? SMH

Yeah I did. My question still stands. Can you answer it?

 

[the_human_being]

I'd say the law just might serve to prevent someone from getting seriously hurt or possibly even killed. Nothing wrong with a public safety measure.

 

[Asclepias]

I'd say the law just might serve to prevent someone from getting seriously hurt or possibly even killed. Nothing wrong with a public safety measure.

Yeah like a law is going to keep people from going into the womens restroom if you are man. SMH

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

not the gender they are

Hacking off a penis and taking hormones does not change one's sex. It merely creates an illusion that further fuels a mental disability.

 

[the_human_being]

I'd say the law just might serve to prevent someone from getting seriously hurt or possibly even killed. Nothing wrong with a public safety measure.

Yeah like a law is going to keep people from going into the womens restroom if you are man. SMH

Well, somehow or another most of us males do not go into women's restrooms. Go figure.

 

[Asclepias]

I'd say the law just might serve to prevent someone from getting seriously hurt or possibly even killed. Nothing wrong with a public safety measure.

Yeah like a law is going to keep people from going into the womens restroom if you are man. SMH

Well, somehow or another most of us males do not go into women's restrooms. Go figure.

Which has nothing to do with your claim about public safety measures unless youre claiming someone will be hurt simply because a male accidently goes into the womens restroom?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"Do we really need laws about what restroom transgender people use?"

No.

But most republicans and conservatives need another idiotic hot-button issue to deflect from the fact that the GOP has nothing of value or merit to offer the American people, just the politics of fear and division – such as the red herring fallacy of ‘restrooms.’

 

[Asclepias]

I'd say the law just might serve to prevent someone from getting seriously hurt or possibly even killed. Nothing wrong with a public safety measure.

Yeah like a law is going to keep people from going into the womens restroom if you are man. SMH

Well, somehow or another most of us males do not go into women's restrooms. Go figure.

Which has nothing to do with your claim about public safety measures unless youre claiming someone will be hurt simply because a male accidently goes into the womens restroom?

You are really one intelligent specimen of humanity aren't you? Really? The law will give some father a legal defense out when he beats some pervert half to death for exposing himself to his young daughter.

Assuming you understand what you just said, please explain what "legal defense" has to do with public safety measures.

 

[the_human_being]

"Do we really need laws about what restroom transgender people use?"

No.

But most republicans and conservatives need another idiotic hot-button issue to deflect from the fact that the GOP has nothing of value or merit to offer the American people, just the politics of fear and division – such as the red herring fallacy of ‘restrooms.’

You can try to blame it on Republicans or whomever you wish but it is a problem and you could do a bit of research and find that fact out:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/02/u...-students-use-of-the-girls-bathroom.html?_r=0

 

[Asclepias]

Yeah like a law is going to keep people from going into the womens restroom if you are man. SMH

Well, somehow or another most of us males do not go into women's restrooms. Go figure.

Which has nothing to do with your claim about public safety measures unless youre claiming someone will be hurt simply because a male accidently goes into the womens restroom?

You are really one intelligent specimen of humanity aren't you? Really? The law will give some father a legal defense out when he beats some pervert half to death for exposing himself to his young daughter.

Assuming you understand what you just said, please explain what "legal defense" has to do with public safety measures.

You ARE stupid. A law will hopefully make the pervert very aware that he can be prosecuted or have the hell beaten out of him. It's for the pervert's safety as well as the child's to keep him out. Are you mentally challenged?

So now youre claiming there are no laws against being a pervert on the book and thats why people expose themselves to children? I think youre confused and deflecting. What does any of that have to do with public safety?

 

[320 Years of History]

Birth certificates don't contain a "gender", they contain a persons "sex". One is a social concept, the other is biology.
A boy could have an artificial penis and will still be a female. We cant change that, yet.
Let me ask you this : how would you feel if your 5 year old daughter was 2 feet away from a mentally ill grown man taking a piss at the mall?

Indifferent unless I have good reason to think the man threatens her life.

 

[320 Years of History]

Birth certificates don't contain a "gender", they contain a persons "sex". One is a social concept, the other is biology.
A boy could have an artificial penis and will still be a female. We cant change that, yet.
Let me ask you this : how would you feel if your 5 year old daughter was 2 feet away from a mentally ill grown man taking a piss at the mall?

Red:
Equivocation
Definist

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

This is a Clean Debate Zone thread. Stop insulting each other

 

[TNHarley]

Birth certificates don't contain a "gender", they contain a persons "sex". One is a social concept, the other is biology.
A boy could have an artificial penis and will still be a female. We cant change that, yet.
Let me ask you this : how would you feel if your 5 year old daughter was 2 feet away from a mentally ill grown man taking a piss at the mall?

Red:
Equivocation
Definist

Lol. Gender is a social concept.
Sex is biological. That isn't a fallacy. It's science. An considering you want to talk about transsexuals, you might need to know the difference.

 

[320 Years of History]

Birth certificates don't contain a "gender", they contain a persons "sex". One is a social concept, the other is biology.
A boy could have an artificial penis and will still be a female. We cant change that, yet.
Let me ask you this : how would you feel if your 5 year old daughter was 2 feet away from a mentally ill grown man taking a piss at the mall?

Red:
Equivocation
Definist

Lol. Gender is a social concept.
Sex is biological. That isn't a fallacy. It's science. An considering you want to talk about transsexuals, you might need to know the difference.

Off Topic:
You're right on one point and your word choice is ambiguous on the other. Sex is a biological thing. Gender differences -- mental and social attitudes toward individuals based on gender -- not gender in and of itself which is biological, are plausibly/arguably viewed as social constructs. Neither is a fallacy. Applying them to the context of this thread to make the points you have is a fallacious line of argument.

It is fallacious to apply them to discussion because bathroom are designated by one's sex (since that's the term you prefer) -- male, female, men, women, ladies, gentleman, whatever. You know that as well as I do, and that you know that but went down that tangent based on the debatable premise of gender identity's being a social thing, even though you knew what the OP meant is what makes your remarks matters of equivocation and definism.

Going forward, please stay on topic and address the matter that's presented. If you feel the social construct of gender differences and gender identity somehow play into the topic at hand, then make a credible argument that shows it to be so and how it's being so plays into the topic which is not whether gender (identity, and the mental and social differences attributed/attributable to gender) is a social construct. In all further discussion with me on this topic, you should consider "gender" to equal "sex" (the noun, not the verb). Refer specifically to "gender identity," "gender differences" or something precise if your meaning has something to do with anything other than gender being one's sex.