CDZ Do we really need laws about what restroom transgender people use?

[TNHarley]

Birth certificates don't contain a "gender", they contain a persons "sex". One is a social concept, the other is biology.
A boy could have an artificial penis and will still be a female. We cant change that, yet.
Let me ask you this : how would you feel if your 5 year old daughter was 2 feet away from a mentally ill grown man taking a piss at the mall?

Red:
Equivocation
Definist

Lol. Gender is a social concept.
Sex is biological. That isn't a fallacy. It's science. An considering you want to talk about transsexuals, you might need to know the difference.

Off Topic:
You're right on one point and your word choice is ambiguous on the other. Sex is a biological thing. Gender differences -- mental and social attitudes toward individuals based on gender -- not gender in and of itself which is biological, are plausibly/arguably viewed as social constructs. Neither is a fallacy. Applying them to the context of this thread to make the points you have is a fallacious line of argument.

It is fallacious to apply them to discussion because bathroom are designated by one's sex (since that's the term you prefer) -- male, female, men, women, ladies, gentleman, whatever. You know that as well as I do, and that you know that but went down that tangent based on the debatable premise of gender identity's being a social thing, even though you knew what the OP meant is what makes your remarks matters of equivocation and definism.

Going forward, please stay on topic and address the matter that's presented. If you feel the social construct of gender differences and gender identity somehow play into the topic at hand, then make a credible argument that shows it to be so and how it's being so plays into the topic which is not whether gender (identity, and the mental and social differences attributed/attributable to gender) is a social construct. In all further discussion with me on this topic, you should consider "gender" to equal "sex" (the noun, not the verb). Refer specifically to "gender identity," "gender differences" or something precise if your meaning has something to do with anything other than gender being one's sex.

Get over it dude. "Gender" is not on a birth certificate. And people don't choose their sex.
The differences between gender and sex is important when discussing these things. If you can't understand that, then you shouldn't be Making arrogant threads about it. I like to actually discuss facts, not ignorant terminology or social constructs. That's subjective..
Men, women, ladies and gentleman are not brands of sex. They are brands of gender.
Let's say you wanted to be called a chick, woman, girl, she and her. I would oblige. being referred to as a female is where we would part ways.
I'm just saying their is a big difference whether you use big words or not lol.
And in my first post, I was implying that a mentally ill grown man has the ability to violate her. I'm not saying transsexuals are violent to wards other people, I'm just saying dude is ill..
I don't want my seven year old son to piss beside an ill female.
Idk man, I just don't think we should inconvenience the majority with special rights for such a small minority..
Even if you consider that with non-transsexual supporters, they are a minority.
Poll Shows The Majority Of Americans Oppose Transgender People Using Preferred Bathroom

Sorry for the typos. I'm on my phone lol

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Birth certificates don't contain a "gender", they contain a persons "sex". One is a social concept, the other is biology.
A boy could have an artificial penis and will still be a female. We cant change that, yet.
Let me ask you this : how would you feel if your 5 year old daughter was 2 feet away from a mentally ill grown man taking a piss at the mall?

This is a potentially dangerous situation these people want to put women and girls in. I wouldn't be happy if I was in a public toilet and a strange man came in wanting to urinate, how would I know he wasn't some weird pervert? I wouldn't have anyway of knowing.

For Centuries Western society has sufficed and survived with the rule that if you have a penis, you use the male toilets and if you don't have a penis, you use the female toilets....I mean, it's not rocket science, it's easy to understand basic biology.

 

[Shrimpbox]

The fallacy of right wing divisiveness. When an overwhelming majority of people believe that you should use the restroom of your birth certificate and a minuscule amount of people are challenging this, the tail is wagging th dog. The choice of the majority is being denied by a tiny group of left with g agitators. This is not about hating or denying anyone. This is about denying the majority of Americans privacy in the most intimate of exercises. This a regressive issue, not a progressive one.

Poll Shows The Majority Of Americans Oppose Transgender People Using Preferred Bathroom

As far as can be ascertained there are maybe 100,000 transgendered people in the us. So we are supposed to turn societal norms upside down for such a minute slice of the population, many of which have extensive psychological and suicidal problems? Common sense is being stood on its head.

 

[my2¢]

I guess Liberty Market here in Gilbert, Arizona was ahead of its time when a few years ago the grocery store was transformed into a restaurant. Its restroom:

 

[320 Years of History]

in my first post, I was implying that a mentally ill grown man has the ability to violate her. I'm not saying transsexuals are violent towards other people, I'm just saying dude is ill..
I don't want my seven year old son to piss beside an ill female.

I understand what you are saying. You have assumed that a person who elects to undergo sex reassignment surgery/therapy (SRST) (the medical profession's term for the procedure) is mentally ill, presumably suffering from gender dysphoria (GD). Whether after the treatment regimen the individual is cured or continues to suffer from GD is open to debate, so I won't here take up the case of whether s/he does or does not remain ill after treatment. Regardless of whether SRST works or doesn't, has it occurred to you that your son might find himself urinating next to a mentally ill male who suffers from some non-GD mental illness? The fact is that if you don't want your child sharing a public restroom with a mentally ill person, you may want to keep your child from using public restrooms at all.

For my part and as mental illnesses go, GD is low on my list of ones to be concerned about with regard to encountering a person suffering from any of the mental illnesses with which individuals I can randomly encounter may suffer.

• How is one going to know the person in the men's restroom was once a woman? Do you actually look that closely at the other folks in the restroom? I don't. Maybe women do. I don't know.
• The person isn't likely to volunteer that information.
• There are only ~700K transgender people in the U.S. That's 2/10ths of 1% of the population of the U.S. That means there are more people, far more than twice as many, who commit violent crimes than there are transexuals, to say nothing of how many of those transexuals with whom it might be harmful to share a restroom.
• Have you honestly never gone into a restroom and found a woman there? I sure have and it didn't freak me out. I did my business and left just like I always do.
• Have you never been "pressed" and found the ladies room to be "free" and the men's room not? (admittedly a rare occurrence in my experience) I have and I damn sure wasn't going to go in my pants. I walked into the ladies room and did my business and left. No woman freaked out. (That didn't happen in NC. Perhaps that's why nobody flipped out?)

It just isn't that big a deal who is or is not in the restroom. When one "has to go," one does, and sooner or later, and on a routine basis, and sometimes unexpectedly, everyone does.

There are plenty of truly mentally ill persons who are and have remained men who will use the men's room. If I were of a mind to be concerned about anyone, the ones who have an illness that moves them to molest others are far higher on my list of folks about whom I'd be concerned than is a person who once or currently suffers from GD.

It seems to me that the law NC passed has more to do with there presumably being some obtuse means for identifying people who are and are not transgender and pandering to perceptions rather than dealing with reality. Frankly, it'd make more sense to prohibit would be violent victimizers from using public restrooms at all than it does to force transgender individuals to use the restroom they would have prior to undergoing SRST.

 

[320 Years of History]

I guess Liberty Market here in Gilbert, Arizona was ahead of its time when a few years ago the grocery store was transformed into a restaurant. Its restroom:

That works as far as I'm concerned.

The only potential downside, and it's not a certainty, is that establishments may reduce the overall quantity of stalls available, perhaps by offering one restroom instead of two.

 

[TNHarley]

in my first post, I was implying that a mentally ill grown man has the ability to violate her. I'm not saying transsexuals are violent towards other people, I'm just saying dude is ill..
I don't want my seven year old son to piss beside an ill female.

I understand what you are saying. You have assumed that a person who elects to undergo sex reassignment surgery/therapy (SRST) (the medical profession's term for the procedure) is mentally ill, presumably suffering from gender dysphoria (GD). Whether after the treatment regimen the individual is cured or continues to suffer from GD is open to debate, so I won't here take up the case of whether s/he does or does not remain ill after treatment. Regardless of whether SRST works or doesn't, has it occurred to you that your son might find himself urinating next to a mentally ill male who suffers from some non-GD mental illness? The fact is that if you don't want your child sharing a public restroom with a mentally ill person, you may want to keep your child from using public restrooms at all.

For my part and as mental illnesses go, GD is low on my list of ones to be concerned about with regard to encountering a person suffering from any of the mental illnesses with which individuals I can randomly encounter may suffer.

• How is one going to know the person in the men's restroom was once a woman? Do you actually look that closely at the other folks in the restroom? I don't. Maybe women do. I don't know.
• The person isn't likely to volunteer that information.
• There are only ~700K transgender people in the U.S. That's 2/10ths of 1% of the population of the U.S. That means there are more people, far more than twice as many, who commit violent crimes than there are transexuals, to say nothing of how many of those transexuals with whom it might be harmful to share a restroom.
• Have you honestly never gone into a restroom and found a woman there? I sure have and it didn't freak me out. I did my business and left just like I always do.
• Have you never been "pressed" and found the ladies room to be "free" and the men's room not? (admittedly a rare occurrence in my experience) I have and I damn sure wasn't going to go in my pants. I walked into the ladies room and did my business and left. No woman freaked out. (That didn't happen in NC. Perhaps that's why nobody flipped out?)

It just isn't that big a deal who is or is not in the restroom. When one "has to go," one does, and sooner or later, and on a routine basis, and sometimes unexpectedly, everyone does.

There are plenty of truly mentally ill persons who are and have remained men who will use the men's room. If I were of a mind to be concerned about anyone, the ones who have an illness that moves them to molest others are far higher on my list of folks about whom I'd be concerned than is a person who once or currently suffers from GD.

It seems to me that the law NC passed has more to do with there presumably being some obtuse means for identifying people who are and are not transgender and pandering to perceptions rather than dealing with reality. Frankly, it'd make more sense to prohibit would be violent victimizers from using public restrooms at all than it does to force transgender individuals to use the restroom they would have prior to undergoing SRST.

People that deny reality are ill. Some people might want artificial/loss of limbs just to do something different with their life. I never hear of it, but I don't doubt it happens. Its when people say stuff like "biology got it wrong" or something like that.
My cousin is a post-surgery transsexual boy now. I did ALOT of research trying to understand what was going on. For some reason, our cultural normalizes this illness and I don't understand why. Even post-surgery, their suicide rate is 20%. These people need professional help. Not being lied to or religious people screaming at them that God hates fags or some crap.
I get what you are saying, but we cant walk around with id badges that have our health history on it all the time. You know which ones are trans..lol
I wont really disagree with you about the law. I haven't read it.. I just think you should use the bathroom according to your sex. Or at least have proper genitalia. People shouldn't be inconvenienced like that. Either that, or mandate all one stall unisex bathrooms. Which is insane, too..

 

[TNHarley]

I guess Liberty Market here in Gilbert, Arizona was ahead of its time when a few years ago the grocery store was transformed into a restaurant. Its restroom:

I think that's a good idea for places to do.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

The fallacy of right wing divisiveness. When an overwhelming majority of people believe that you should use the restroom of your birth certificate and a minuscule amount of people are challenging this, the tail is wagging th dog. The choice of the majority is being denied by a tiny group of left with g agitators. This is not about hating or denying anyone. This is about denying the majority of Americans privacy in the most intimate of exercises. This a regressive issue, not a progressive one.

Poll Shows The Majority Of Americans Oppose Transgender People Using Preferred Bathroom

As far as can be ascertained there are maybe 100,000 transgendered people in the us. So we are supposed to turn societal norms upside down for such a minute slice of the population, many of which have extensive psychological and suicidal problems? Common sense is being stood on its head.

Under Democratic rule, there are no societal norms. They are not permitted. Everything else is.

 

[320 Years of History]

My cousin is a post-surgery transsexual boy now. I did ALOT of research trying to understand what was going on. For some reason, our cultural normalizes this illness and I don't understand why.

I have only read the papers that I linked in my prior message. I don't understand GD in any sense beyond the intellectual one that I gained from reading those papers. Thing is that I don't really care to understand GD beyond that. It's a mental illness that some people have. I hope they get treated for it, and I hope the treatment works for if it works for them, that's good enough for me.

Even post-surgery, their suicide rate is 20%. These people need professional help.

Okay, but it seems to me that SRST is part of the help that is available to get. Far be it from me to take issue with their getting it, and then having a conniption over their, after getting treated surgically, behaving in accordance with the sex the surgery assigned to them.

You know which ones are trans..lol

You might know. I damn sure don't. Were I to meet Caitlyn Jenner, assuming she didn't tell me her name, I'd never know she was once a man. Of late, I've seen some transgender folks on the news and there's nothing about them that I'd notice in restroom environment or passing them in an airport, say, that'd suggest to me that they once were members of the opposite what they are when I encounter them.

For example...

I'm sorry, but there is nothing in the world that would make me question whether any of those three individuals was ever anything other than a man or woman.

Once in a while I pass someone of whom I think, "Oh, that person is a crossdresser." I don't generally pay enough attention to "people on the street" to notice, but occasionally I have noticed. On none of those occasions have I bothered to confirm my suspicions.

The folks I don't have trouble picking out of a crowd are drag queens, which, in my mind are a special group of crossdressers or crossdressers who at a given point in time affect the persona/image of a drag queen. Drag queens aren't too hard to pick out because, aside from being on a stage, few women present themselves as flamboyantly as do drag queens.

Frankly, I see drag queens as performers, not as folks whom I'm likely to encounter in the men's room at the grocery store. The person in the Whole Foods restroom may be drag queen at some point in their day, but I suspect most of them spend the bulk of their day as "whatever sex they have between their legs" and going to the corresponding restroom. Whatever they do, or whether I'm right or wrong, doesn't matter. Crossdressers and drag queens aren't transsexuals as far as I'm concerned.

I just think you should use the bathroom according to your sex. Or at least have [expected] genitalia [given the restroom they elect to use].

Well, fine, but SRST gives them that. That's part of why I'm not understanding what you are getting at.

• Are you by some chance -- perhaps not seeing as you've researched the matter due to your cousin's affliction -- confusing transsexual with cross dressers (drag queens)?
• Perhaps you have in mind folks who've not completed their SRST regimen?
• Perhaps you are thinking that a person's merely wanting to or feeling like they should be the sex they are not is who is actually using the "wrong" restroom?
• Perhaps you are thinking of folks who are just beginning/midway through the process of SRST, but who have the outward appearance of the sex/gender they seek to become/obtain?

I don't really know now just what you have/had in mind.

I do know that a former woman who is standing at a urinal and pissing down her leg almost certainly has a penis of some sort. I know too that I won't have the first idea what someone in a stall has or lacks and that I am just not concerned about it either way. Seeing as ladies' rooms lack urinals, I can't imagine why women give a damn one way or the other.

Note:
I made the edits I did because it's what I think it more precisely and neutrally expresses what you mean in light of the more measured tone of your remarks in that post as compared with the "knee jerk" tenor of your earlier post. I may be wrong, however, and you intended to include the judgment conoted by "proper genitalia."

mandate all one stall unisex bathrooms. Which is insane, too.

I don't care if restrooms are unisex or not. I do care whether they have an adequate quantity of stalls/commodes to meet the need that exists in the establishment where they are found. Even there, I truly just care that one is available when I need it. LOL

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

My cousin is a post-surgery transsexual boy now. I did ALOT of research trying to understand what was going on. For some reason, our cultural normalizes this illness and I don't understand why.

I have only read the papers that I linked in my prior message. I don't understand GD in any sense beyond the intellectual one that I gained from reading those papers. Thing is that I don't really care to understand GD beyond that. It's a mental illness that some people have. I hope they get treated for it, and I hope the treatment works for if it works for them, that's good enough for me.

Even post-surgery, their suicide rate is 20%. These people need professional help.

Okay, but it seems to me that SRST is part of the help that is available to get. Far be it from me to take issue with their getting it, and then having a conniption over their, after getting treated surgically, behaving in accordance with the sex the surgery assigned to them.

You know which ones are trans..lol

You might know. I damn sure don't. Were I to meet Caitlyn Jenner, assuming she didn't tell me her name, I'd never know she was once a man. Of late, I've seen some transgender folks on the news and there's nothing about them that I'd notice in restroom environment or passing them in an airport, say, that'd suggest to me that they once were members of the opposite what they are when I encounter them.

As I said before, great costuming creates an illusion of reality, not reality itself.

If I make myself look like Obama, it would not make me a black male. I would merely look like one.

 

[2aguy]

Birth certificates don't contain a "gender", they contain a persons "sex". One is a social concept, the other is biology.
A boy could have an artificial penis and will still be a female. We cant change that, yet.
Let me ask you this : how would you feel if your 5 year old daughter was 2 feet away from a mentally ill grown man taking a piss at the mall?

The same as I would feel if she was 2 feet away from that man buying something in a store? Why would you ask such an irrelevant question?

If this wasn't the CDZ you could be properly addressed........

 

[320 Years of History]

My cousin is a post-surgery transsexual boy now. I did ALOT of research trying to understand what was going on. For some reason, our cultural normalizes this illness and I don't understand why.

I have only read the papers that I linked in my prior message. I don't understand GD in any sense beyond the intellectual one that I gained from reading those papers. Thing is that I don't really care to understand GD beyond that. It's a mental illness that some people have. I hope they get treated for it, and I hope the treatment works for if it works for them, that's good enough for me.

Even post-surgery, their suicide rate is 20%. These people need professional help.

Okay, but it seems to me that SRST is part of the help that is available to get. Far be it from me to take issue with their getting it, and then having a conniption over their, after getting treated surgically, behaving in accordance with the sex the surgery assigned to them.

You know which ones are trans..lol

You might know. I damn sure don't. Were I to meet Caitlyn Jenner, assuming she didn't tell me her name, I'd never know she was once a man. Of late, I've seen some transgender folks on the news and there's nothing about them that I'd notice in restroom environment or passing them in an airport, say, that'd suggest to me that they once were members of the opposite what they are when I encounter them.

As I said before, great costuming creates an illusion of reality, not reality itself.

If I make myself look like Obama, it would not make me a black male. I would merely look like one.

Okay, but this thread and the NC law isn't about people who are in costume -- crossdressers and drag queens -- it's about transsexuals. Read the bill. It applies to government facilities. Who the heck strolls into government facilities or goes to school, in the case of kids, in costume, other than perhaps on some special day like Halloween or around Christmas time? I suppose adults could go to a government office wearing a costume, but nobody's taking issue with folks in costume using the restroom. But whether folks are in costume or not isn't even the point.

The issue is that folks who've undergone sex reassignment surgery (SRST) do have the "equipment" corresponding to their new sex/gender, but their birth certificates may indicate a different sex/gender. The law requires that such folks who are now women, but who were born boys, to use the men's room. And it requires folks who are today men but who were born as girls to use the ladies room.

Now it is so that a transsexual can have their birth certificate altered to reflect their new sex and doing so will solve their problem, at least in North Carolina. I don't know enough about transsexual folks' "issues" to have a sense of whether there's any legit reason why they would not move to revise their birth certificate, nor can I attest to whether it's customary that transsexuals do have their birth certificates adjusted. So I cannot address whether they should or should not have their birth certificates adjusted following their surgery. I do know the law re: NC birth certificates requires they have the surgery before moving to modify their birth certificates. That may present some temporally driven inconvenience, but unless the birth certificate modification process takes a very long time, I suspect that can be endured without great concern.

What I can say is that for many folks, because the price of SRST is quite high and not covered by many health insurance policies, I suspect that many folks who undergo the procedure do so in stages rather than as we watched Bruce nee Caitlyn Jenner do whereby s/he one day was a dude and "overnight" was a woman.

In light of that, it occurs to me that requiring a mid-process transsexual to use the restroom of his/her birth may force them to publicly, and to all manners of random strangers, disclose by their actions that they suffer from a mental illness. I don't know of many other folks or class thereof who have mental illnesses that aren't readily apparent and who are also obliged to disclose that they suffer from that illness. Indeed people aren't generally forced to disclose anything about their health status and why transsexuals should be forced to do so is beyond me.

To my mind, and in light of the areas of uncertainty I have, I just don't see a need for a law dealing with transsexual folks because they can alter their birth certificates. I don't see a need for a law to deal with people in costume because, well, they are in costume. And I don't see a need for a law that singles out folks who are at some intermediate point in the process of receiving treatment for their gender dysphoria and forces them to disclose their illness to everyone who observes them going to or leaving the restroom.

 

[Asclepias]

Birth certificates don't contain a "gender", they contain a persons "sex". One is a social concept, the other is biology.
A boy could have an artificial penis and will still be a female. We cant change that, yet.
Let me ask you this : how would you feel if your 5 year old daughter was 2 feet away from a mentally ill grown man taking a piss at the mall?

The same as I would feel if she was 2 feet away from that man buying something in a store? Why would you ask such an irrelevant question?

If this wasn't the CDZ you could be properly addressed........

I noticed people with a vocabulary have no problem addressing things in the CDZ. Those that lack intelligence tend to have a hard time.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

My cousin is a post-surgery transsexual boy now. I did ALOT of research trying to understand what was going on. For some reason, our cultural normalizes this illness and I don't understand why.

I have only read the papers that I linked in my prior message. I don't understand GD in any sense beyond the intellectual one that I gained from reading those papers. Thing is that I don't really care to understand GD beyond that. It's a mental illness that some people have. I hope they get treated for it, and I hope the treatment works for if it works for them, that's good enough for me.

Even post-surgery, their suicide rate is 20%. These people need professional help.

Okay, but it seems to me that SRST is part of the help that is available to get. Far be it from me to take issue with their getting it, and then having a conniption over their, after getting treated surgically, behaving in accordance with the sex the surgery assigned to them.

You know which ones are trans..lol

You might know. I damn sure don't. Were I to meet Caitlyn Jenner, assuming she didn't tell me her name, I'd never know she was once a man. Of late, I've seen some transgender folks on the news and there's nothing about them that I'd notice in restroom environment or passing them in an airport, say, that'd suggest to me that they once were members of the opposite what they are when I encounter them.

As I said before, great costuming creates an illusion of reality, not reality itself.

If I make myself look like Obama, it would not make me a black male. I would merely look like one.

Okay, but this thread and the NC law isn't about people who are in costume -- crossdressers and drag queens -- it's about transsexuals.

They are every bit as much in costume. If I have horns surgically installed, it doesn't make me the devil.

 

[Asclepias]

in my first post, I was implying that a mentally ill grown man has the ability to violate her. I'm not saying transsexuals are violent towards other people, I'm just saying dude is ill..
I don't want my seven year old son to piss beside an ill female.

I understand what you are saying. You have assumed that a person who elects to undergo sex reassignment surgery/therapy (SRST) (the medical profession's term for the procedure) is mentally ill, presumably suffering from gender dysphoria (GD). Whether after the treatment regimen the individual is cured or continues to suffer from GD is open to debate, so I won't here take up the case of whether s/he does or does not remain ill after treatment. Regardless of whether SRST works or doesn't, has it occurred to you that your son might find himself urinating next to a mentally ill male who suffers from some non-GD mental illness? The fact is that if you don't want your child sharing a public restroom with a mentally ill person, you may want to keep your child from using public restrooms at all.

For my part and as mental illnesses go, GD is low on my list of ones to be concerned about with regard to encountering a person suffering from any of the mental illnesses with which individuals I can randomly encounter may suffer.

• How is one going to know the person in the men's restroom was once a woman? Do you actually look that closely at the other folks in the restroom? I don't. Maybe women do. I don't know.
• The person isn't likely to volunteer that information.
• There are only ~700K transgender people in the U.S. That's 2/10ths of 1% of the population of the U.S. That means there are more people, far more than twice as many, who commit violent crimes than there are transexuals, to say nothing of how many of those transexuals with whom it might be harmful to share a restroom.
• Have you honestly never gone into a restroom and found a woman there? I sure have and it didn't freak me out. I did my business and left just like I always do.
• Have you never been "pressed" and found the ladies room to be "free" and the men's room not? (admittedly a rare occurrence in my experience) I have and I damn sure wasn't going to go in my pants. I walked into the ladies room and did my business and left. No woman freaked out. (That didn't happen in NC. Perhaps that's why nobody flipped out?)

It just isn't that big a deal who is or is not in the restroom. When one "has to go," one does, and sooner or later, and on a routine basis, and sometimes unexpectedly, everyone does.

There are plenty of truly mentally ill persons who are and have remained men who will use the men's room. If I were of a mind to be concerned about anyone, the ones who have an illness that moves them to molest others are far higher on my list of folks about whom I'd be concerned than is a person who once or currently suffers from GD.

It seems to me that the law NC passed has more to do with there presumably being some obtuse means for identifying people who are and are not transgender and pandering to perceptions rather than dealing with reality. Frankly, it'd make more sense to prohibit would be violent victimizers from using public restrooms at all than it does to force transgender individuals to use the restroom they would have prior to undergoing SRST.

People that deny reality are ill. Some people might want artificial/loss of limbs just to do something different with their life. I never hear of it, but I don't doubt it happens. Its when people say stuff like "biology got it wrong" or something like that.
My cousin is a post-surgery transsexual boy now. I did ALOT of research trying to understand what was going on. For some reason, our cultural normalizes this illness and I don't understand why. Even post-surgery, their suicide rate is 20%. These people need professional help. Not being lied to or religious people screaming at them that God hates fags or some crap.
I get what you are saying, but we cant walk around with id badges that have our health history on it all the time. You know which ones are trans..lol
I wont really disagree with you about the law. I haven't read it.. I just think you should use the bathroom according to your sex. Or at least have proper genitalia. People shouldn't be inconvenienced like that. Either that, or mandate all one stall unisex bathrooms. Which is insane, too..

Your opinion doesnt define reality though. I learned this lesson late (18) in life but it would serve you well to learn it now. its never too late. By what authority do you have to label it a mental illness? If that authority is granted by another human then you know youre just guessing. At all times in the history of the planet there have been anatomically male or female people that felt they were really the opposite sex due to chemical secretions in the brain. Their suicide rate is for the most part a direct reflection of the abuse handed out by ignorant people over their life time.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

The fallacy of right wing divisiveness. When an overwhelming majority of people believe that you should use the restroom of your birth certificate and a minuscule amount of people are challenging this, the tail is wagging th dog. The choice of the majority is being denied by a tiny group of left with g agitators. This is not about hating or denying anyone. This is about denying the majority of Americans privacy in the most intimate of exercises. This a regressive issue, not a progressive one.

Poll Shows The Majority Of Americans Oppose Transgender People Using Preferred Bathroom

As far as can be ascertained there are maybe 100,000 transgendered people in the us. So we are supposed to turn societal norms upside down for such a minute slice of the population, many of which have extensive psychological and suicidal problems? Common sense is being stood on its head.

"As far as can be ascertained there are maybe 100,000 transgendered people in the us. So we are supposed to turn societal norms upside down for such a minute slice of the population, many of which have extensive psychological and suicidal problems? Common sense is being stood on its head."

This is it, this is what they expect, a disruption of societal norms, to pander to a small percentage of people who as you say have psychological problems.

 

[Ravi]

North Carolina has passed a law that requires transgender people to use the restroom associated with, not the gender they are, but the gender they used to be, the one on their birth certificate. Boy...Have we really descended to that level of puerility on a statewide level? Apparently so, for NC has indeed passed that law.

Personally, I don't see much need for gender assignments on restrooms, although as a man, I'm thrilled that we have them because, IMO, women take too damn long to "do their business." God forbid I were to attend a large event like a football game or concert and have to stand in the women's line or a "any gender" line to go to the loo. I'd surely have not gotten to the urinal in time on at least a few occasions. LOL

More seriously, however, NC's new law strikes me as just silly.

• Who carries birth certificates around all the time?
• Who is going to check whether one has or has not undergone gender reassignment surgery?
• Why would a man want to wait in the women's line to go to the loo? (I know why women would prefer to use the men's room; it's faster.)
• Is NC going to require transgender persons to wear a "T" on their outermost garment much as Hitler forced Jews to wear Stars of David to signify their status as Jews?

Restrooms are for the gender one is at the time one uses it. Rationally (not emotionally) what does the gender one used to be have to do with it? It's not as though being able to use the restroom of the opposite gender is even remotely why folks switch from one gender to the other.

No of course not. Such laws serve no purpose other than intimidating people.

I would LOVE to see single serve toilets in all venues, and lots of them. I am frankly sick to death of sneaking into the mens room at sporting events because the womens room line is five miles long.

 

[320 Years of History]

My cousin is a post-surgery transsexual boy now. I did ALOT of research trying to understand what was going on. For some reason, our cultural normalizes this illness and I don't understand why.

I have only read the papers that I linked in my prior message. I don't understand GD in any sense beyond the intellectual one that I gained from reading those papers. Thing is that I don't really care to understand GD beyond that. It's a mental illness that some people have. I hope they get treated for it, and I hope the treatment works for if it works for them, that's good enough for me.

Even post-surgery, their suicide rate is 20%. These people need professional help.

Okay, but it seems to me that SRST is part of the help that is available to get. Far be it from me to take issue with their getting it, and then having a conniption over their, after getting treated surgically, behaving in accordance with the sex the surgery assigned to them.

You know which ones are trans..lol

You might know. I damn sure don't. Were I to meet Caitlyn Jenner, assuming she didn't tell me her name, I'd never know she was once a man. Of late, I've seen some transgender folks on the news and there's nothing about them that I'd notice in restroom environment or passing them in an airport, say, that'd suggest to me that they once were members of the opposite what they are when I encounter them.

As I said before, great costuming creates an illusion of reality, not reality itself.

If I make myself look like Obama, it would not make me a black male. I would merely look like one.

Okay, but this thread and the NC law isn't about people who are in costume -- crossdressers and drag queens -- it's about transsexuals.

They are every bit as much in costume. If I have horns surgically installed, it doesn't make me the devil.

Well, perhaps having brain reassignment surgery will allow you to present to me a legitimate analogy of verisimilitude...or maybe it won't.

 

[320 Years of History]

Birth certificates don't contain a "gender", they contain a persons "sex". One is a social concept, the other is biology.
A boy could have an artificial penis and will still be a female. We cant change that, yet.
Let me ask you this : how would you feel if your 5 year old daughter was 2 feet away from a mentally ill grown man taking a piss at the mall?

The same as I would feel if she was 2 feet away from that man buying something in a store? Why would you ask such an irrelevant question?

If this wasn't the CDZ you could be properly addressed........

I noticed people with a vocabulary have no problem addressing things in the CDZ. Those that lack intelligence tend to have a hard time.

I'm almost afraid to ask, but, say what? I don't know what to make of that remark.