"Do we really need billionaires?" - Lakota

[Rigby5]

Socialism has nothing against people earning all the money they wants.
Socialism just means that people pay reasonable taxes on what they make, because it was expenditures by government that allowed them to make those profits in the first place.
In the US, wealthy are taxed at the 15% capital gains rate, which is too low.
In Europe, they are taxed more like 50%, and that seems to high to me, because there hardly is any incentive to make anything then.
The ceiling likely should be more like 35%?

I barter my skills and labor for paper script notes because FRNs have no intrinsic value (HJR-192).....why do YOU believe that this corporate entity that lamely disguises itself as a legitimate governmental body (owned by the IMF) is entitled to benefit from MY labor by stealing a percentage of it? Income taxes are collected by a Puerto Rican Trust #62 aka "the IRS". Stupid fucks like you believe that by confiscating the earnings at a higher rate that all problems would be magically solved.

So, here is today's lesson......so STFU, turn around and face the black board.

Since every Federal Reserve note is "borrowed" into existence with interest attached to every note? Where do the FRNs come from to pay the interest? You can't pull eleven marbles out of a bag that only contains ten.

Emphasis on "note", like a Promissory note, house note, car note.....Black's Law dictionary defines "note" as debt owed....an I.O.U.

All ventures or human activities grow.
They all cost some investment, but you always end up with more than you started, whether it is hunting, gathering, planting, manufacturing, information, etc.
It is not a big deal for someone to charge a small amount for maintaining currency, so that trade is facilitated.
Everyone who uses currency owes a little bit for that convenience.
Everyone who uses roads, fire protection, crime protection, invasion protection, etc., owes a little bit for that convenience.
Life is not a zero sum game.
Populations and productivity of each individual is constantly increasing.
So effectively when you put 10 marbles into the bag, you do pull out 12 or 13 eventually.
That is as long as you put the marbles into the bag called "growth".
You only lose marbles if you put them into the bag called "waste", "decadence", "corruption", "greed", etc.

 

[Rigby5]

Well yes Lakhota .

A nation can fully stand very well to delightfully have zero poor people. No nation can stand to have zero rich, successful people.

For the only exception in the latter is when all the wealth is in the hands of the ruling monarchy and all the poverty is in the people they rule over.

Apparently where Lakhota want to be.

I do not understand what you mean, because there is no intrinsic advantage in having any disparity in wealth.
Ideally investment capital should come from all the people pooling their individual surpluses, and not from the greedy whim of a very few, who are not going to have the interests of the majority at heart.

 

[Rigby5]

There is no specific requirement that a capitalist economy be dominated by a super-wealthy class of plutocrats with enormous unaccountable political power.

/—-/Yeah, lets get poor people to run things. What could possibly go wrong?

In general I have found the poor to be smarter and more practical than the wealthy.
The wealthy simply have more capital and do not then know how to make anything.
Instead they hire people to do everything for them, including investing that capital.
It is trivial to make money once you have excess capital.
It is difficult to survive at all if you do not.

Would you want a wealthy person to fix your computer or install a satellite system on your roof?
I would not even let a wealthy person remove a stain or prepare a meal for me.
They don't know how to actually do anything.

 

[Rigby5]

Well yes Lakhota .

The only way to get rid of billionaires would be to seize their assets, and if they resisted, to send in a SWAT team and murder them.

Is that your plan Lakhota , to send out SWAT teams around the US to seize all the assets of billionaires?

People have to commit a crime to suffer asset forfeiture!

Even if you pass a law banning billionaires, it would be ex-post-facto and NOT apply to those already beyond the limit, and thus they would be grandfathered in.

Have Fun Comrade.

As long as our government and its politicians are for sale, billionaires will continue to run the country.

And we could change that.
All we would have to do is get rid of the expensive partisan primary, have open ballot elections, and limit political advertising to an amount that is equal to all, and paid for by the government.

 

[Rigby5]

There is no specific requirement that a capitalist economy be dominated by a super-wealthy class of plutocrats with enormous unaccountable political power.

/—-/Yeah, lets get poor people to run things. What could possibly go wrong?

We've fucked up and allowed an aristocracy to form in America. The battle we had with the robber barons to wrest back control of the nation's economy has passed from living memory. Looks like we are going to have to do it again.

I suspect it’s too late. They control most of our institutions.

It's never too late. It's been 11 years since a major recession because they know another one could go very badly for them.

I agree it is never too late to try because giving up is pointless.
But as fossil fuel runs out, the whole pie is getting smaller, so likely it will come to blows.

 

[Rigby5]

Well yes Lakhota .

The only way to get rid of billionaires would be to seize their assets, and if they resisted, to send in a SWAT team and murder them.

Is that your plan Lakhota , to send out SWAT teams around the US to seize all the assets of billionaires?

People have to commit a crime to suffer asset forfeiture!

Even if you pass a law banning billionaires, it would be ex-post-facto and NOT apply to those already beyond the limit, and thus they would be grandfathered in.

Have Fun Comrade.

There is no specific requirement that a capitalist economy be dominated by a super-wealthy class of plutocrats with enormous unaccountable political power.

There is no specific requirement that a capitalist economy be dominated by a super-wealthy class of plutocrats with enormous unaccountable political power.

Elitist dictatorial / self-appointed ruling class politicians declaring voters can not be trusted to vote, setting up and running federal law-violating Sanctuary cities, declaring people should only be allowed to keep a percentage of THEIR own money, who violate both Constitution and law to overturn elections that do not favor them, lecturing others and demonizing other's wealth have no reason to exist, or at least be tolerated.

Think of all the good Bernie could do with those billions!

There is no specific requirement that a capitalist economy be dominated by a super-wealthy class of plutocrats with enormous unaccountable political power.

/—-/Yeah, lets get poor people to run things. What could possibly go wrong?

We've fucked up and allowed an aristocracy to form in America. The battle we had with the robber barons to wrest back control of the nation's economy has passed from living memory. Looks like we are going to have to do it again.

There is no specific requirement that a capitalist economy be dominated by a super-wealthy class of plutocrats with enormous unaccountable political power.

/—-/Yeah, lets get poor people to run things. What could possibly go wrong?

We've fucked up and allowed an aristocracy to form in America. The battle we had with the robber barons to wrest back control of the nation's economy has passed from living memory. Looks like we are going to have to do it again.

I suspect it’s too late. They control most of our institutions.

Good thread, but now the answer to why higher rates on the wealthy do not work.

Before it gets to deep in this thread, watch this short video on psychology. While it has to do with tax returns, it also explains succinctly why without a large return for taking a chance, everybody is going to shy away FROM THAT CHANCE! Humans are just HARD WIRED that way, plain and simple, so you must allow more ability to make profit than some of us would like, or you will get no risk takers!

But something like a 30% tax rate is not too high.
And the wealthy are only paying 15% or less now, because they use loopholes like the capital gains rate, exemptions for their mansion mortgage, etc.
We need to fix the tax system to remove loopholes, and a flat tax with a large flat individual exemption would do that, while keeping taxes 0 for those making the amount of the exemption or less.

 

[toobfreak]

Well yes Lakhota .

A nation can fully stand very well to delightfully have zero poor people. No nation can stand to have zero rich, successful people.

For the only exception in the latter is when all the wealth is in the hands of the ruling monarchy and all the poverty is in the people they rule over.

Apparently where Lakhota want to be.

I do not understand what you mean, because there is no intrinsic advantage in having any disparity in wealth.
Ideally investment capital should come from all the people pooling their individual surpluses, and not from the greedy whim of a very few, who are not going to have the interests of the majority at heart.

UNFUCKINGBELIEVABLE. You don't know what I mean? One of the simplest, most direct and most eloquent statements ever made on this forum?

There is no advantage in income disparity? How does your brain work? How do you read what I wrote and think that I'm calling for income disparity, uber rich and desperate poor?

I WAS SAYING THE EXACT OPPOSITE !!!!!!!!!

But there must always be SOME disparity of income, the producers, those in power and authority and those who are managed. For the opposite of that, to have NO income disparity, is called:


S O C I A L I S M

 

[gipper]

There is no specific requirement that a capitalist economy be dominated by a super-wealthy class of plutocrats with enormous unaccountable political power.

/—-/Yeah, lets get poor people to run things. What could possibly go wrong?

We've fucked up and allowed an aristocracy to form in America. The battle we had with the robber barons to wrest back control of the nation's economy has passed from living memory. Looks like we are going to have to do it again.

I suspect it’s too late. They control most of our institutions.

It's never too late. It's been 11 years since a major recession because they know another one could go very badly for them.

I don’t think they are concerned about recessions. They know they have an uncle that will always take good care of them.

 

[Cellblock2429]

There is no specific requirement that a capitalist economy be dominated by a super-wealthy class of plutocrats with enormous unaccountable political power.

/—-/Yeah, lets get poor people to run things. What could possibly go wrong?

We've fucked up and allowed an aristocracy to form in America. The battle we had with the robber barons to wrest back control of the nation's economy has passed from living memory. Looks like we are going to have to do it again.

I suspect it’s too late. They control most of our institutions.

It's never too late. It's been 11 years since a major recession because they know another one could go very badly for them.

I agree it is never too late to try because giving up is pointless.
But as fossil fuel runs out, the whole pie is getting smaller, so likely it will come to blows.

/——/ Fossil fuels were supposed to run out in 1975. Still waiting

 

[occupied]

There is no specific requirement that a capitalist economy be dominated by a super-wealthy class of plutocrats with enormous unaccountable political power.

/—-/Yeah, lets get poor people to run things. What could possibly go wrong?

We've fucked up and allowed an aristocracy to form in America. The battle we had with the robber barons to wrest back control of the nation's economy has passed from living memory. Looks like we are going to have to do it again.

I suspect it’s too late. They control most of our institutions.

It's never too late. It's been 11 years since a major recession because they know another one could go very badly for them.

I don’t think they are concerned about recessions. They know they have an uncle that will always take good care of them.

There's that but the word "socialism" lost most of it's stigma in the years after the 2008 crash. We started talking about the 1% and their golden parachutes. The American left gained in popularity and it looks like the democratic party may have to actually stand for what democratic voters always thought they did.

 

[gipper]

/—-/Yeah, lets get poor people to run things. What could possibly go wrong?

We've fucked up and allowed an aristocracy to form in America. The battle we had with the robber barons to wrest back control of the nation's economy has passed from living memory. Looks like we are going to have to do it again.

I suspect it’s too late. They control most of our institutions.

It's never too late. It's been 11 years since a major recession because they know another one could go very badly for them.

I don’t think they are concerned about recessions. They know they have an uncle that will always take good care of them.

There's that but the word "socialism" lost most of it's stigma in the years after the 2008 crash. We started talking about the 1% and their golden parachutes. The American left gained in popularity and it looks like the democratic party may have to actually stand for what democratic voters always thought they did.

Bernie is doing well because many Americans are sick of the extreme wealthy getting socialism. However many middle class Americans still don’t see the fraud being committed against them. They think any government programs to help the poor and middle class is unacceptable. It’s communism. They go against their own self interest, while the 1% continue to enrich themselves on the government dole.

 

[Andylusion]

There is no specific requirement that a capitalist economy be dominated by a super-wealthy class of plutocrats with enormous unaccountable political power.

That's both irrelevant, and ignorant.

Yes there is no 'requirement'.

That is a dumb point. There is no requirement in socialism, and yet it's true there as well.

Look stupid... as long as you allow people freedom, you are going to end up with rich people and poor people, simply because people make choices that effect how much wealth they have.

As long as people can choose to keep flipping burgers, instead of getting trade skill, or a degree in something useful... then there will be people who make that choice.

I've known dozens of people stay poor intentionally. I knew a lady with a degree in architecture, who worked at McDonalds, because she didn't want to have a strict scheduled.

Knew another lady that was an engineer, and move up to a major company NetJets, which is a high price private jet service company. Doubled her income. But she decided she wanted more time with her family, and quit. Came back to our company, cutting her income in half.

People make choices. Had two sisters, didn't go to college at all, and worked at a bank. Moved up to management, and ended up director of mortgages, making 6 figures. Her sister, when to college, and then university, and got a Ph.D..... in humanities. She got a job as a secretary for $30,000 a year.

People make choices.

As long as people have responsibility for their own choices, some are going to make bad choices, and others good. And the result is, those who make many wise choices, will end up wealthy, and those that don't end up poor.

And it's not just choices in what you do, and earning a living. It's also choices in how you spend your money.

You can be a janitor and save and invest millions.

Here's how a janitor amassed an $8M fortune

And you can be Nicholas Cage, make $150 Million or more, and end up bankrupt in 2009.

How Nicolas Cage Wildly Spent a $150 Million Fortune

How you spend, and blow your money will also determine if you are poor or rich.

And by there is no "class" of wealthy people. Wealthy people move up and down the list constantly. The poor of today, are the rich of tomorrow, and the rich of today, can be the poor of tomorrow.

Very few of the wealthy are Waltons that are born into wealth. Most are first generation rich.

And lastly, about the whole polutocrat stuff.

Give me an example. Where are the super wealthy controlling everything?

 

[The2ndAmendment]

I think the idea was more of a taxation thing

If you dont pay your taxes, men with guns come to seize your assets.

 

[Andylusion]

We've fucked up and allowed an aristocracy to form in America. The battle we had with the robber barons to wrest back control of the nation's economy has passed from living memory. Looks like we are going to have to do it again.

I suspect it’s too late. They control most of our institutions.

It's never too late. It's been 11 years since a major recession because they know another one could go very badly for them.

I don’t think they are concerned about recessions. They know they have an uncle that will always take good care of them.

There's that but the word "socialism" lost most of it's stigma in the years after the 2008 crash. We started talking about the 1% and their golden parachutes. The American left gained in popularity and it looks like the democratic party may have to actually stand for what democratic voters always thought they did.

Bernie is doing well because many Americans are sick of the extreme wealthy getting socialism. However many middle class Americans still don’t see the fraud being committed against them. They think any government programs to help the poor and middle class is unacceptable. It’s communism. They go against their own self interest, while the 1% continue to enrich themselves on the government dole.

Yeah, because it's in my self interest to destroy the entire country.

Brilliant. You people are fools. You look around the world at Socialism destroying country after country, and then say we're voting against our self interest, to stop you people.

Did you learn nothing from France? The high cost of social programs, makes hard working people, into peasants working for the benefit of government. The whole yellow vest protest, is a protest against your ideology.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

There is no specific requirement that a capitalist economy be dominated by a super-wealthy class of plutocrats with enormous unaccountable political power.

The Carefully Hidden Cancer That Destroys All Civilizations

Both sides are ignoring the unearned wealth from inheritance. So both twin sides love and protect Preppy moochers. HeirHeads steal all white-collar jobs, not just the very highest positions. We have become a Juniorocracy, a terminal stage of whatever you want to call the political and economic systems we are under.

Inherited power, property, and position destroy Capitalism. Someone who starts a company and gets it to provide good jobs and popular products makes the system look good, but then his heirs, who rarely inherit that talent, wreck it, causing a depression. (This was even the reason that the Roman Empire didn't revive permanently in 800, after Charlemagne).

To illustrate, imagine if pro athletes could pass on their positions to their sons. Year by year, sports would get worse and more unwatchable. Within a decade, they would go out of business.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Well yes Lakhota .

The only way to get rid of billionaires would be to seize their assets, and if they resisted, to send in a SWAT team and murder them.

Is that your plan Lakhota , to send out SWAT teams around the US to seize all the assets of billionaires?

People have to commit a crime to suffer asset forfeiture!

Even if you pass a law banning billionaires, it would be ex-post-facto and NOT apply to those already beyond the limit, and thus they would be grandfathered in.

Have Fun Comrade.

There is no specific requirement that a capitalist economy be dominated by a super-wealthy class of plutocrats with enormous unaccountable political power.

There is no specific requirement that a capitalist economy be dominated by a super-wealthy class of plutocrats with enormous unaccountable political power.

Elitist dictatorial / self-appointed ruling class politicians declaring voters can not be trusted to vote, setting up and running federal law-violating Sanctuary cities, declaring people should only be allowed to keep a percentage of THEIR own money, who violate both Constitution and law to overturn elections that do not favor them, lecturing others and demonizing other's wealth have no reason to exist, or at least be tolerated.

Think of all the good Bernie could do with those billions!

There is no specific requirement that a capitalist economy be dominated by a super-wealthy class of plutocrats with enormous unaccountable political power.

/—-/Yeah, lets get poor people to run things. What could possibly go wrong?

We've fucked up and allowed an aristocracy to form in America. The battle we had with the robber barons to wrest back control of the nation's economy has passed from living memory. Looks like we are going to have to do it again.

There is no specific requirement that a capitalist economy be dominated by a super-wealthy class of plutocrats with enormous unaccountable political power.

/—-/Yeah, lets get poor people to run things. What could possibly go wrong?

We've fucked up and allowed an aristocracy to form in America. The battle we had with the robber barons to wrest back control of the nation's economy has passed from living memory. Looks like we are going to have to do it again.

I suspect it’s too late. They control most of our institutions.

Good thread, but now the answer to why higher rates on the wealthy do not work.

Before it gets to deep in this thread, watch this short video on psychology. While it has to do with tax returns, it also explains succinctly why without a large return for taking a chance, everybody is going to shy away FROM THAT CHANCE! Humans are just HARD WIRED that way, plain and simple, so you must allow more ability to make profit than some of us would like, or you will get no risk takers!

"Risk" Means Stupidity, As in, "That Was a Pretty Risky Thing You Did"


The reason investors need a high return is that they are Low IQ high-rolling gamblers. If inventors got half the value of corporate patents they alone create, they would become millionaire and soon the only investors and the only billionaires.

Only the Highest IQs must be allowed to invest; "risk" is a term that only applies to the rest, who are counting on blind luck instead of brains. So you're begging the question when you preach that investment is risky; it is the get-rich-quick retards who make it that way.

 

[gipper]

I suspect it’s too late. They control most of our institutions.

It's never too late. It's been 11 years since a major recession because they know another one could go very badly for them.

I don’t think they are concerned about recessions. They know they have an uncle that will always take good care of them.

There's that but the word "socialism" lost most of it's stigma in the years after the 2008 crash. We started talking about the 1% and their golden parachutes. The American left gained in popularity and it looks like the democratic party may have to actually stand for what democratic voters always thought they did.

Bernie is doing well because many Americans are sick of the extreme wealthy getting socialism. However many middle class Americans still don’t see the fraud being committed against them. They think any government programs to help the poor and middle class is unacceptable. It’s communism. They go against their own self interest, while the 1% continue to enrich themselves on the government dole.

Yeah, because it's in my self interest to destroy the entire country.

Brilliant. You people are fools. You look around the world at Socialism destroying country after country, and then say we're voting against our self interest, to stop you people.

Did you learn nothing from France? The high cost of social programs, makes hard working people, into peasants working for the benefit of government. The whole yellow vest protest, is a protest against your ideology.

The thing is and you’ll never comprehend it, the wealthy are doing a good job of destroying the country and you are paying for it.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Well yes Lakhota .

The only way to get rid of billionaires would be to seize their assets, and if they resisted, to send in a SWAT team and murder them.

Is that your plan Lakhota , to send out SWAT teams around the US to seize all the assets of billionaires?

People have to commit a crime to suffer asset forfeiture!

Even if you pass a law banning billionaires, it would be ex-post-facto and NOT apply to those already beyond the limit, and thus they would be grandfathered in.

Have Fun Comrade.

There is no specific requirement that a capitalist economy be dominated by a super-wealthy class of plutocrats with enormous unaccountable political power.

There is no specific requirement that a capitalist economy be dominated by a super-wealthy class of plutocrats with enormous unaccountable political power.

Elitist dictatorial / self-appointed ruling class politicians declaring voters can not be trusted to vote, setting up and running federal law-violating Sanctuary cities, declaring people should only be allowed to keep a percentage of THEIR own money, who violate both Constitution and law to overturn elections that do not favor them, lecturing others and demonizing other's wealth have no reason to exist, or at least be tolerated.

Think of all the good Bernie could do with those billions!

There is no specific requirement that a capitalist economy be dominated by a super-wealthy class of plutocrats with enormous unaccountable political power.

/—-/Yeah, lets get poor people to run things. What could possibly go wrong?

We've fucked up and allowed an aristocracy to form in America. The battle we had with the robber barons to wrest back control of the nation's economy has passed from living memory. Looks like we are going to have to do it again.

There is no specific requirement that a capitalist economy be dominated by a super-wealthy class of plutocrats with enormous unaccountable political power.

/—-/Yeah, lets get poor people to run things. What could possibly go wrong?

We've fucked up and allowed an aristocracy to form in America. The battle we had with the robber barons to wrest back control of the nation's economy has passed from living memory. Looks like we are going to have to do it again.

I suspect it’s too late. They control most of our institutions.

Good thread, but now the answer to why higher rates on the wealthy do not work.

Before it gets to deep in this thread, watch this short video on psychology. While it has to do with tax returns, it also explains succinctly why without a large return for taking a chance, everybody is going to shy away FROM THAT CHANCE! Humans are just HARD WIRED that way, plain and simple, so you must allow more ability to make profit than some of us would like, or you will get no risk takers!

But something like a 30% tax rate is not too high.
And the wealthy are only paying 15% or less now, because they use loopholes like the capital gains rate, exemptions for their mansion mortgage, etc.
We need to fix the tax system to remove loopholes, and a flat tax with a large flat individual exemption would do that, while keeping taxes 0 for those making the amount of the exemption or less.

Necrocracy: Letting Dead People Determine Our Future

Why tax the living when we can tax the dead? Are Americans afraid of ghosts? 100% inheritance tax will eliminate the need for any income or corporate taxes.

Only those who have been manipulated into hating their Daddies for not getting rich and spoiling them, or being able to pay for their college education, support the unearned privileges of HeirHead moochers. Such slavish peasants and unAmerican nobility should go back to the crumbling castles of Europe where they belong. Continuously ignoring all that proves that this whole thread is soaked in blueblood propaganda.

 

[Andylusion]

There is no specific requirement that a capitalist economy be dominated by a super-wealthy class of plutocrats with enormous unaccountable political power.

/—-/Yeah, lets get poor people to run things. What could possibly go wrong?

In general I have found the poor to be smarter and more practical than the wealthy.
The wealthy simply have more capital and do not then know how to make anything.
Instead they hire people to do everything for them, including investing that capital.
It is trivial to make money once you have excess capital.
It is difficult to survive at all if you do not.

Would you want a wealthy person to fix your computer or install a satellite system on your roof?
I would not even let a wealthy person remove a stain or prepare a meal for me.
They don't know how to actually do anything.

You have found the poor to be smarter and more practical than the wealthy? I don't believe you. If they were in fact smarter and more practical, then they wouldn't be poor.

Anyone can increase their income if they wish to. Anyone can invest wisely if they wish to.

The people who are poor, are poor specifically because they are not smart or practical with their finances.

Would you want a wealthy person to fix your computer or install a satellite system on your roof?

And the answer of course depends on the wealthy person in question, doesn't it? Which makes it a dumb subjective question.

Would I want warren buffet installing a satellite system? No, because the dude is 89.

But the idea you wouldn't want the wealthy in general fixing my computer, or doing other work.... you are just showing who unbelievably ignorant you are.

I work at a company where the CEO, was a guy who went to a computer store, and was so badly treated by the incompetent sales staff, that he walked out and said to himself "I can do a better job selling computers than these guys". He started a small store, that was just him and his wife. They called it "Sarah and Randy's Computers". 10 years later, he had dozens of people. 15 years later, he had hundreds. He changed the name to "Sarcom".
Sarcom Inc - Company Profile and News

I worked at this company. Sarah and Randy are in the top 1%... and not only could he fix your computer, he could build you a computer AND install your Satellite system. He was a average guy, with no money to his name, who learned the computer market inside and out, created a thousand jobs and provided goods and services across the country.

And that's just one of thousands of stories.

I worked for another company, ADL Technologies, started by three guys soldering circuit boards. The company grew into hundreds of people, running multi-million dollar projects. One day I was on the production floor, doing my job, and a co-worker said "that's him!", and under one of the machines was the multi-millionaire CEO and owner of the company, fixing a solder oven.

You people don't know jack.

 

[The Original Tree]

Well the Democrats would have to behead two of their candidates and imprison all the rest!

Well yes Lakhota .

The only way to get rid of billionaires would be to seize their assets, and if they resisted, to send in a SWAT team and murder them.

Is that your plan Lakhota , to send out SWAT teams around the US to seize all the assets of billionaires?

People have to commit a crime to suffer asset forfeiture!

Even if you pass a law banning billionaires, it would be ex-post-facto and NOT apply to those already beyond the limit, and thus they would be grandfathered in.

Have Fun Comrade.