Zone1 Do newborn infants have long term memory

[alang1216]

It seems to me that every functional advantage has its roots in self preservation; in existing. Even long term memory of newborn infants. If you are looking for meaning in all this, you could do worse than saying the meaning of life is to exist and pass it down.

If by it you mean our DNA, I agree.

 

[ding]

The question I ask is how is it that we have an inherent need to have a life with meaning which has nothing to do with survival. That didnt evolve. Where did that come from?

At its least common denominator the meaning of life is to exist (i.e. self preservation) and to pass it down (procreation). Every single one of the characteristics of life will simplify to one of these two root causes.

So to answer your question, the need for meaning is tied to existing. It would be a sad existence to not see meaning in existing. As for the role of evolution, this need is an artifact of intelligence. So, in effect it did evolve but it is a logical conclusion of evolution which is to say it was predetermined by the laws of nature.

 

[ding]

If by it you mean our DNA, I agree.

That’s as narrow of a view as arguing evolution is limited to biology.

Or do you not pass down valuable information to your offspring?

 

[Hafar1014]

Sure, which possessed the same characteristics all life possesses.

DNA trail leads back to one tribe of African Sans Bushman

Genetic analysis finds that modern humans evolved from southern Africa's Bushmen

A team of Stanford University scientists, using the largest-ever genetic analysis of remote tribal people, have determined that the human family tree is rooted in one of the world's most marginal and primitive people - the Bushmen of southern Africa.

phys.org

 

[Hafar1014]

At its least common denominator the meaning of life is to exist (i.e. self preservation) and to pass it down (procreation). Every single one of the characteristics of life will simplify to one of these two root causes.

So to answer your question, the need for meaning is tied to existing. It would be a sad existence to not see meaning in existing. As for the role of evolution, this need is an artifact of intelligence. So, in effect it did evolve but it is a logical conclusion of evolution which is to say it was predetermined by the laws of nature.

The context fir a life with meaning is the individuals meaning of his life

 

[alang1216]

That’s as narrow of a view as arguing evolution is limited to biology.

Or do you not pass down valuable information to your offspring?

Everything evolves but all evolution generally focuses on individual success and success means getting to pass on their genes. I like to think I passed valuable information to my kids and that it made them more successful and better able to pass on my genes. Not really ever my goal but, thankfully, the result.

 

[Hafar1014]

Everything evolves but all evolution generally focuses on individual success and success means getting to pass on their genes. I like to think I passed valuable information to my kids and that it made them more successful and better able to pass on my genes. Not really ever my goal but, thankfully, the result.

The goal of evolution is fecundity

 

[ding]

Everything evolves but all evolution generally focuses on individual success and success means getting to pass on their genes. I like to think I passed valuable information to my kids and that it made them more successful and better able to pass on my genes. Not really ever my goal but, thankfully, the result.

I wasn’t talking about genetic information.

 

[Hafar1014]

Everything evolves but all evolution generally focuses on individual success and success means getting to pass on their genes. I like to think I passed valuable information to my kids and that it made them more successful and better able to pass on my genes. Not really ever my goal but, thankfully, the result.

Everything does not evolve some become extinct

 

[ding]

The goal of evolution is fecundity

Thus nature has a preference for life to exist.

 

[alang1216]

I wasn’t talking about genetic information.

That is all nature cares about.

 

[BackAgain]

I vaguely recall a couple of days in the womb. Couldn’t see much. It was quite dark. I got a kick out of it. So did my mom.

 

[ding]

That is all nature cares about.

Look at you saying nature cares.

You have a very narrow view of what evolution is. The material world and everything in it are constantly changing. The universe popped into existence not being created from existing matter and began to expand and cool and it has not stopped changing since that time.

Nature isn’t limited to biology. The laws of nature encompasses everything even consciousness.

 

[ding]

Everything does not evolve some become extinct

Extinction is part of the evolutionary process.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Some still believe in the blank slate tabula rasa concept when an infant is born. This has been a serious error in the case of adoptions. It was believed that the baby wont have any memory of the loss of the birth mother.

Infants are born with a functioning Limbic System which creates memory and emotion. There is no prefrontal cortex which is explicit thought.

Taken from Robert Hafetz Parenting the adopted child
Infants only a few days old can record long term memories. “Infants do not think but they do process emotions and long term memories are stored as affective schemas” (Geansbauer, 2002). An infant separated from its first mother will record a memory of that event. Memories of this nature are called preverbal memory representations and they have a unique quality that must be understood by adoptive parents. “Infant memories are recalled in adulthood the same way they were recorded at the time they occurred. It is difficult possibly impossible for children to map newly acquired verbal skills on to existing preverbal memory representations” (Richardson, R., & Hayne, H. 2007). An older adoptee who recalls an emotional memory will experience it the same way it was felt as an infant. Adoptees can have troubling memories that they cannot identify in words. This means that they cannot understand what they are feeling and without a vocabulary they cannot even ask for help. This leads to a cognitive /emotional disconnection. “Children fail to translate their preverbal memories into language”(Simcock, Hayne, 2002).

An adopted child will learn from his family that he is wanted, loved, belongs with them, and that they will never leave him. His emotional memories will trigger fears that are exactly the opposite. An adopted child can know he belongs but feel isolated. He can know that he will never be abandoned but feel that he will. He can know that he is whole but feel that a part of him is missing. He can know that he is loved but feel that he is not. This incongruence between thoughts and feelings becomes the foundation of poor attachment, problem behaviors, power struggles, poor academic performance, and behaviors parents can’t understand. The struggle to bring thoughts and feelings into coherence can be a lifelong task for adopted children. It doesn’t have to be this way.

Enlightened parents can create a nurturing healing environment within the family if they are aware of this process and are proficient in how to deal with it. The knowledge needed to raise an adopted child is not readily available and few effective parenting programs can be found. The foundation of healing attachment related resistance is to create experiences of secure attachment when the child is experiencing attachment anxiety or acting out in challenging behaviors.

References

Gaensbauer, T. (2002). Representations of trauma in infancy: Clinical and theoretical

implications. 23(3), 259-277. doi:10.1002/imhj.10020.

Lierberman, & Pawl, (1988). Clinical applications of attachment theory. In J. Belsky & T.

Nezworski, (Eds.), Clinical implications of attachment ( 327-351). Hillsdale, NJ: Erlbaum.

Richardson, R. & Hayne H. (2007). You Can't Take It With You: The translation of memory

across development. Current directions in, psychological science, 16, 223 - 227.

Schore, A.N. (2001). The effects of a secure attachment relationship on right brain development,

affect regulation, and infant mental health. Infant mental mental health journal, 22, 7-66.

Simcock, G., Hayne, H. (2002). Children fail to translate their preverbal memories into language.

American Psychological Society 13(3), 225-231.

Something called childhood amnesia means your earliest memories are about when you're 3 or 4 years old, and even then, it's likely that early memory is from an adult telling you.

 

[OODA_Loop]

I remember my circumcision.

I didn't walk for over year after it.

 

[Hafar1014]

Something called childhood amnesia means your earliest memories are about when you're 3 or 4 years old, and even then, it's likely that early memory is from an adult telling you.

Not true if we couldnt make long term memory we would never learn.
This is taken from research paper I published. The limbic system is fully functional at birth

Infants only a few days old can record long term memories. “Infants do not think but they do process emotions and long term memories are stored as affective schemas” (Geansbauer, 2002). An infant separated from its first mother will record a memory of that event. Memories of this nature are called preverbal memory representations and they have a unique quality that must be understood by adoptive parents. “Infant memories are recalled in adulthood the same way they were recorded at the time they occurred. It is difficult possibly impossible for children to map newly acquired verbal skills on to existing preverbal memory representations” (Richardson, R., & Hayne, H. 2007). An older adoptee who recalls an emotional memory will experience it the same way it was felt as an infant. Adoptees can have troubling memories that they cannot identify in words. This means that they cannot understand what they are feeling and without a vocabulary they cannot even ask for help. This leads to a cognitive /emotional disconnection. “Children fail to translate their preverbal memories into language”(Simcock, Hayne, 2002).

 

[Captain Caveman]

Not true if we couldnt make long term memory we would never learn.
This is taken from research paper I published. The limbic system is fully functional at birth

Infants only a few days old can record long term memories. “Infants do not think but they do process emotions and long term memories are stored as affective schemas” (Geansbauer, 2002). An infant separated from its first mother will record a memory of that event. Memories of this nature are called preverbal memory representations and they have a unique quality that must be understood by adoptive parents. “Infant memories are recalled in adulthood the same way they were recorded at the time they occurred. It is difficult possibly impossible for children to map newly acquired verbal skills on to existing preverbal memory representations” (Richardson, R., & Hayne, H. 2007). An older adoptee who recalls an emotional memory will experience it the same way it was felt as an infant. Adoptees can have troubling memories that they cannot identify in words. This means that they cannot understand what they are feeling and without a vocabulary they cannot even ask for help. This leads to a cognitive /emotional disconnection. “Children fail to translate their preverbal memories into language”(Simcock, Hayne, 2002).

I'll stick to what I learnt on my OU course.

 

[Hafar1014]

I'll stick to what I learnt on my OU course.

Facts are better. You did notice the citations. Im a trauma therapist with a graduate degree and 30 years experience. I specialize in infant preverbal trauma. I have published and Im read world wide.
References

Gaensbauer, T. (2002). Representations of trauma in infancy: Clinical and theoretical

implications. 23(3), 259-277. doi:10.1002/imhj.10020.

Lierberman, & Pawl, (1988). Clinical applications of attachment theory. In J. Belsky & T.

Nezworski, (Eds.), Clinical implications of attachment ( 327-351). Hillsdale, NJ: Erlbaum.

Richardson, R. & Hayne H. (2007). You Can't Take It With You: The translation of memory

across development. Current directions in, psychological science, 16, 223 - 227.

Schore, A.N. (2001). The effects of a secure attachment relationship on right brain development,

affect regulation, and infant mental health. Infant mental mental health journal, 22, 7-66.

Simcock, G., Hayne, H. (2002). Children fail to translate their preverbal memories into language.

American Psychological Society 13(3), 225-231.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Facts are better. You did notice the citations. Im a trauma therapist with a graduate degree and 30 years experience. I specialize in infant preverbal trauma. I have published and Im read world wide.
References

Gaensbauer, T. (2002). Representations of trauma in infancy: Clinical and theoretical

implications. 23(3), 259-277. doi:10.1002/imhj.10020.

Lierberman, & Pawl, (1988). Clinical applications of attachment theory. In J. Belsky & T.

Nezworski, (Eds.), Clinical implications of attachment ( 327-351). Hillsdale, NJ: Erlbaum.

Richardson, R. & Hayne H. (2007). You Can't Take It With You: The translation of memory

across development. Current directions in, psychological science, 16, 223 - 227.

Schore, A.N. (2001). The effects of a secure attachment relationship on right brain development,

affect regulation, and infant mental health. Infant mental mental health journal, 22, 7-66.

Simcock, G., Hayne, H. (2002). Children fail to translate their preverbal memories into language.

American Psychological Society 13(3), 225-231.

Yes, that's why I did the OU course.