Do new age ‘minorities’ question government authority, abuse of power and overreach like the core people tend to?

[Juicin]

I think you're quoting the wrong person here, but if not, my argument is about government overreach, not race.

No i'm reading. You're saying there is some correlation.

When in reality we weren't very free until about 1965

A lot more than civil rights we got. We got right to privacy, true freedom of expression, many women's rights. We did away with eugenics and forced institutionalization (which much of Europe still practices by the way)

The peak of American freedom was post civil rights act. Really right up until reagan we kept getting more and more "liberal" in a social and economic sense.

The famous case, "can't shout fire in a burning room", that justice was calling distributing a peace pamphlet during ww1 was equivalent to shouting fire. We had no freedom of speech until the supreme court gave it to us..

We weren't very free before that.

 

[Curried Goats]

If you can withhold insults for a moment, maybe we can have a meaningful conversation.

I said "certain aspects" for a reason. Slavery and segregation were obvious examples of local and federal governments allowing or imposing control over an entire race of people. Obviously, that goes against freedom as well.

However, the point I'm making here is that government rarely ever changes to allow someone more freedom of action without taking something in return. The Civil War effectively ended slavery, but it also ended the voluntary nature of the union of states. Seceding is no longer an option that states can consider without the possibility of war. That was not the original design of the country.

The original design of this country legalized slavery. Do we really need to be beholden to it?

Ending segregation did improve the quality of life for America overall, but it also involved the creation of antidiscriminatory laws that are often used in selective ways that reflect politics rather than the original intent of promoting equality.

Affirmative Action was created because whites needed laws to teach them how to not act like racist fuckwads. Just like they needed the federal government to go down to the south and force them to integrate schools.

In short, every time we see an increase in one freedom, there is often a decrease or consequence elsewhere. The end result is often a larger government.

Which is not in and of itself a bad thing.

To be clear, however, I'm not suggesting that we should go back to slavery or segregation. I'm just saying that we have a lot of work to do in increasing freedoms elsewhere and in reducing government abuse and overreach.

Sometimes that abuse comes from state governments and requires a stronger federal response.

 

[BrokeLoser]

"core American" means nothing (and you wouldn't be one if it did). It is a stupid, juvenile slogan you made up and now repeat endlessly because of your idiot racist OCD. YOU are not ANY kind of American, you fucking cockroach.

I repeat it endlessly because it‘s real and it scares the living fuck out of unAmerican, sovereignty hating, worthless, globalist pieces of filthy dogshit like you.

 

[Uriel]

No i'm reading. You're saying there is some correlation.

When in reality we weren't very free until about 1965

A lot more than civil rights we got. We got right to privacy, true freedom of expression, many women's rights. We did away with eugenics and forced institutionalization (which much of Europe still practices by the way)

The peak of American freedom was post civil rights act. Really right up until reagan we kept getting more and more "liberal" in a social and economic sense.

The only correlation I'm making is that more federal involvement means less freedom in the long run.

Right to privacy is largely symbolic when considering the surveillance state. While the Five Eyes program did not exist in the 60s or 70s, COINTELPRO did. You didn't really have a right to privacy if you expressed certain political views then.

Women's rights did improve in that era, but the quality of life for women was mixed. We went from having a culture that generally protected women to a "free love" culture that resulted in much more divorce, single parenting and more venereal disease.

 

[Curried Goats]

You're black and you think the blacks are more socially liberal than the whites or anyone else per capita in AMerica? lol

You think blacks are a monolith on social views? I know blacks that are more socially conservative and blacks who extremely progressive and everything in between. What I don't know are more than a handful of blacks who would even think about voting for the Republican party.

You're insane

You're poor and stupid of course you're socially conservative

Lol.

Only thing stopping you from voting republican is your feelings about republicans not their social views. Black male republican share of the vote been going up and up, will keep going.

You think I'm socially conservative based on what? Your assumptions that all blacks are alike? I'm one of the most progressive people you've ever met. I have no problem with gay marriage, abortion, transgendered bathrooms and I'm an atheist. Lol.

 

[Juicin]

The only correlation I'm making is that more federal involvement means less freedom in the long run.

Right to privacy is largely symbolic when considering the surveillance state. While the Five Eyes program did not exist in the 60s or 70s, COINTELPRO did. You didn't really have a right to privacy if you expressed certain political views then.

Women's rights did improve in that era, but the quality of life for women was mixed. We went from having a culture that generally protected women to a "free love" culture that resulted in much more divorce, single parenting and more venereal disease.

I'm just saying that our peak freedom was a much smaller window than most American seem to think

Just because you're on a frontier with no state enforcers around doesn't mean it wouldn't be legal for them to do a whole lot.

The peak of our civil liberties was as I said about Reagan before true mass surveillance and TIm drake.

And whites don't love freedom more than anyone else. White Americans...Maybe

But that would be obviously cultural not genetic.

 

[Unkotare]

I repeat it endlessly because it‘s real and ....

it is idiotic juvenile nonsense that you just made up like some dimwitted child overly proud of his lousy crayon drawings. Now you can’t stop repeating it because you suffer from OCD. You’re a hopeless loser who never grew up and never grew a brain or a set of balls. You are not an American.

 

[Juicin]

You think blacks are a monolith on social views? I know blacks that are more socially conservative and blacks who extremely progressive and everything in between. What I don't know are more than a handful of blacks who would even think about voting for the Republican party.

Lol.

You think I'm socially conservative based on what? Your assumptions that all blacks are alike? I'm one of the most progressive people you've ever met. I have no problem with gay marriage, abortion, transgendered bathrooms and I'm an atheist. Lol.

Since when do you have to be a monolith to have an average view/ You fucking idiot. I know statistics wind YOU PEOPLE up. But god damn. Yes per capita stats matter. And per capita you're dumb and socially backwards.

lol

Not that complicated. Pretty obvious where your social views lie just seeing economic stats.

You're basically white evangelicals with less money who want more handouts. Specifically just for you because you're special people, lol

 

[Curried Goats]

Since when do you have to be a monolith to have an average view/ You fucking idiot. I know statistics wind YOU PEOPLE up. But god damn. Yes per capita stats matter. ANd per capita you're dumb and socially backwards.

lol

And you wonder why blacks vote against you by a margin of over 90%. Lol.

 

[Uriel]

The original design of this country legalized slavery. Do we really need to be beholden to it?

Affirmative Action was created because whites needs laws to teach them how to not act like racist fuckwads. Just like they needed the federal government to go down to the south and force them to integrate schools.

Which is not in and of itself a bad thing.

Sometimes that abuse comes from state governments and requires a stronger federal response.

Again, there's nuance here. Some of the original design was good IMHO. Allowing states to voluntarily decide if they want to remain or secede was a good design.

There's plenty of racism that comes from minorities as well, but that isn't consistently addressed by AA or hate crime laws for that matter. The left has even redefined racism to fit their agenda by adding a privilege component.

 

[Juicin]

And you wonder why blacks vote against you by a margin of over 90%. Lol.

I'm half south asian. My father is probably dark as you, he just doesn't have nappy hair. Average Indian IQ is 85, very similar to sub saharan africans. And all people who live near the equator

You want to cry about racial disparities....? Fine

Then accept the group differences. I'm ok pretending race doesn't exist. BUt if you're going to malign the majority for you being stupid. Yea some one has to say something. They didn't breed you to not be able to do math. You're the richest Africans on this earth and also score higher on IQ...93. Because you're mixed like me.

Live with it. No one questions why you dominate the NBA. You shouldn't question why the Asians or Jews stomp the rest of us in math. It's fucking obvious. Genes

African immigrants don't have these problems because you have to have skills or money....They aren't average Africans. ADOS on the other hand are just average white/black mixes and yes you're dumber than the rest of us. Live with it.

Only reason Indians escape this fate here is because 85 IQ indians don't come to America. Modern immigrants are rarely stupid.

 

[Curried Goats]

Again, there's nuance here. Some of the original design was good IMHO. Allowing states to voluntarily decide if they want to remain or secede was a good design.

And the only example we have of that were states seceding in order to maintain slavery. Allowing states to secede is no guarantee of more freedom for individuals.

There's plenty of racism that comes from minorities as well, but that isn't consistently addressed by AA or hate crime laws for that matter. The left has even redefined racism to fit their agenda by adding a privilege component.

You're talking the difference individual act of racism and systemic, institutional racism and black people are also convicted of hate crimes.

 

[Curried Goats]

I'm half south asian. My father is probably dark as you, he just doesn't have nappy hair. Average Indian IQ is 85, very similar to sub saharan africans. And all people who live near the equator

You want to cry about racial disparities....? Fine

Then accept the group differences. I'm ok pretending race doesn't exist. BUt if you're going to malign the majority for you being stupid. Yea some one has to say something. They didn't breed you to not be able to do math. You're the richest Africans on this earth and also score higher on IQ...93. Because you're mixed like me.

Live with it. No one questions why you dominate the NBA. You shouldn't question why the Asians or Jews stomp the rest of us in math. It's fucking obvious. Genes

African immigrants don't have these problems because you have to have skills or money....They aren't average Africans. ADOS on the other hand are just average white/black mixes and yes you're dumber than the rest of us. Live with it.

Only reason Indians escape this fate here is because 85 IQ indians don't come to America. Modern immigrants are rarely stupid.

Lol. So much ignorance and so much confidence despite it. Lol.

 

[Uriel]

I'm just saying that our peak freedom was a much smaller window than most American seem to think

Just because you're on a frontier with no state enforcers around doesn't mean it wouldn't be legal for them to do a whole lot.

The peak of our civil liberties was as I said about Reagan before true mass surveillance and TIm drake.

And whites don't love freedom more than anyone else. White Americans...Maybe

But that would be obviously cultural not genetic.

I definitely agree that America has never been as free as some idealize it to be. I also don't worship the Founders like some do. I recognize that all governments are built upon cronyism, because that is the human tendency. We are social creatures, and so hierarchies form. Meritocracy is often rather lacking in many of these, particularly in government.

Frontier life was open to extremes, but quality of life was largely dependent on your neighbors. The Wild West image is largely a Hollywood fabrication. It was actually much more boring and harsh than the movies show. We often only remember the extremes when tribal warfare or shootouts happened, because of how much they stand out.

As for peak civil liberties, I'm not sure if I agree with your timeline, but freedom is also dependent on the individual. You could make the argument that, today, a gay or trans person has more freedoms now than at any time in the past. Public policy tends to play favorites, so at any given time, one individual or group may fare better than another.

I would agree that culture plays a part in the importance one places in freedom, but since freedom is such a broad topic, cultures tend to prioritize freedoms. We have a much greater appreciation of freedom of speech here, but the Netherlands has a greater appreciation of freedom to do drugs, for example.

At the same time, I also am not suggesting that freedom is always the ideal. I don't believe complete freedom to enter this country from another would be ideal, for example.

 

[Juicin]

I definitely agree that America has never been as free as some idealize it to be. I also don't worship the Founders like some do. I recognize that all governments are built upon cronyism, because that is the human tendency. We are social creatures, and so hierarchies form. Meritocracy is often rather lacking in many of these, particularly in government.

Frontier life was open to extremes, but quality of life was largely dependent on your neighbors. The Wild West image is largely a Hollywood fabrication. It was actually much more boring and harsh than the movies show. We often only remember the extremes when tribal warfare or shootouts happened, because of how much they stand out.

As for peak civil liberties, I'm not sure if I agree with your timeline, but freedom is also dependent on the individual. You could make the argument that, today, a gay or trans person has more freedoms now than at any time in the past. Public policy tends to play favorites, so at any given time, one individual or group may fare better than another.

I would agree that culture plays a part in the importance one places in freedom, but since freedom is such a broad topic, cultures tend to prioritize freedoms. We have a much greater appreciation of freedom of speech here, but the Netherlands has a greater appreciation of freedom to do drugs, for example.

At the same time, I also am not suggesting that freedom is always the ideal. I don't believe complete freedom to enter this country from another would be ideal, for example.

The gay and trans gains don't overcome the roll backs in economic freedom and the national security state invoking endless war as justification to piss on the rights we got just a few decades ago.

Privacy was the first to go, as you said.

We are not as free as we were when I was born. Queers or no queers

Most of that centered around the digital age and the increased capacity of the state.

 

[Uriel]

And the only example we have of that were states seceding in order to maintain slavery. Allowing states to secede is no guarantee of more freedom for individuals.

You're talking the difference individual act of racism and systemic, institutional racism and black people are also convicted of hate crimes.

I would agree that secession itself does not guarantee the freedom of individuals, but it can decentralize authority, which does sometimes increase freedoms for individuals. That's what Brexit did for the UK, for example. They are no longer subject to most of the EU's policy decisions.

There are many on the left that proclaim discrimination against whites by minorities isn't racism but only prejudice, even if the identical action by a white person against a minority would be regarded as racism. Systemic and institutional racism are different from individual acts, but I rarely see these people make this distinction when they define racism itself. Black people are convicted of hate crimes when they attack other minorities, but it's rare to see this happen if the act is against a white person that doesn't correspond with some minority category (gay, trans, etc.) even if the culprit states a motive that is clearly racial.

 

[Juicin]

Lol. So much ignorance and so much confidence despite it. Lol.

ADOS calling others ignorant

The projection with you people is unreal. lol

As if you've ever been in any classroom that wasn't all black where you were the clever one. Hah

 

[Curried Goats]

ADOS calling other ignorant

The projection with you people is unreal. lol

Lol. Tell us again about race and genetics. I want to show my friends so we can all laugh.

 

[Uriel]

The gay and trans gains don't overcome the roll backs in economic freedom and the national security state invoking endless war as justification to piss on the rights we got just a few decades ago.

Privacy was the first to go, as you said.

We are not as free as we were when I was born. Queers or no queers

Most of that centered around the digital age and the increased capacity of the state.

I largely agree, although what do you mean by economic freedom? Do you mean this in terms of tax policy, business regulation, or something else?

 

[Juicin]

I largely agree, although what do you mean by economic freedom? Do you mean this in terms of tax policy, business regulation, or something else?

Yea I think just as a general macro philosophical standpoint.

You have to have pretty robust property/privacy rights to truly have maximum civil liberties. Like for example a gas tax....Well that's limiting your ability to travel. A basic civil liberty. Obviously in a communist society you could have some civil liberties. But many couldn't be sustained without property rights and the right to do business without overwhelming interference.

I don't think we've totally screwed that up yet....But things like a wealth tax would certainly push us in that direction. A wealth tax would require a lot more financial information to be turned over to the state. For everyone. They want to monitor all bank accounts over 600 dollars or something crazy low like that. Policy like this while not as stark* as mass surveillance is certainly moving us less liberal on the civil side.