Do Federal/State/Local Governments Create Jobs?

[Iceweasel]

Let me give you an example of how the government creates jobs in the private sector.

I am an Environmental Engineer. I currently am employed by the county as the Building Inspector, but previously I was employed by two engineering firms, both private sector employers. Our clients included the Department of Defense.

Several of my field projects involved the assessment and abatement of hazardous materials on Navy and Army bases all around the globe. I had to visit these bases, complete a survey of them for asbestos containing building materials, lead based paints, underground storage tanks, PCB contamination, waste water treatment and disposal, chemical storage and containment, residual waste collection and disposal and biohazard remediation.

Beyond the efforts of myself and my crews in the field, additional training and certifications had to be obtained. That meant professionals involved in the training and certifications of individuals and firms had to be employed.

Personal Protective equipment had to be purchased. Housing and transportation had to be secured for our overseas travels.

Now, the government did not directly employ any of us, but their contracts made all that possible.

Without our efforts, property transfers into private hands would not be possible. Without the proper environmental precautions, no insurance underwriter would sell the purchaser any policies. Without insurance, no financing would be available to those private concerns.

Now, there were private vendors servicing all those bases. Building maintenance, road construction and repair, food services, and grounds maintenance were just a few of the services provided by private contractors.

And this is just my own limited experiences with government contracts. Imagine all the other privately employed individuals and firms interacting with government entities here and abroad.

Yes indeed, the government creates jobs.

You've missed the point. The government exists and pays for those jobs by way of taxes. The people are taxed, hire government to hire someone else. That isn't government creating jobs, they are the middleman.

Some of the regulations established by the government directly led to the emergence of private industry. For example, asbestos remediation.

The government did not fund private industry, but private industry evolved to meet a demand. Remediation companies, engineering companies. companies to manufacture Personal Protective equipment, abatement equipment (who ever heard of a HEPA filter prior to the asbestos regulations?)

The government, in an effort to assure public health and safety, set forth a scaffold of regulations. Private concerns developed as a response.

While some of the asbestos abatement occurred on government property, many more abatement projects happened at private sector venues.

You mentioned contractors so those were hired with tax dollars. There are private companies that manufacture government signs, made a bunch of them myself, mostly state and county stuff but the need exists, people need to know to stop or what the street name is, etc.

But again, it's government acting on the public's behalf, funded by the public. If there was no government agency to order signs a private company could be hired to it and everything else you mentioned. That isn't job creation, it's the marketplace and society with the demand and government working for them. I'd argue a lot more can be done more efficiently with more private companies. Clearly they can access hazardous materials, defined by government hired by the people to do so.

Why don't we just legislate enough work to employ everyone if you are right?

 

[rightwinger]

Show me a private firm that will pick up a letter from my home and deliver it to someone elses home on the other side of the country for under 50 cents

I dare you to show me a private firm that would deliver to the other side of town for 50 cents

That would obviously be impossible since it's illegal.

Show me a private company that will deliver any product ANYWHERE for 50 cents

Packages are obviously going to cost more than an envelope with a letter, so your demand is just as idiotic.

Deliver ANYTHING...ANYWHERE

Find me a single private company that will even come to your home for 50 cents

You claim they are so much more efficient than the Post Office. Show me a single example of the efficiency of private industry that can match the post office delivering a letter cross country for 50 cents

We'll never know until Congress makes it legal.

So what are you and the Postal Union afraid of?

Lets be honest Fingerboy

Private industry would balk at the idea of having to pick up letters at private homes and deliver them to homes coast to coast for 50 cents. They can't do it
They would insist on limited delivery days only to routes that are profitable
Postal delivery to rural areas would cease to exist

 

[bripat9643]

That would obviously be impossible since it's illegal.

Show me a private company that will deliver any product ANYWHERE for 50 cents

Packages are obviously going to cost more than an envelope with a letter, so your demand is just as idiotic.

Deliver ANYTHING...ANYWHERE

Find me a single private company that will even come to your home for 50 cents

You claim they are so much more efficient than the Post Office. Show me a single example of the efficiency of private industry that can match the post office delivering a letter cross country for 50 cents

We'll never know until Congress makes it legal.

So what are you and the Postal Union afraid of?

Lets be honest Fingerboy

Private industry would balk at the idea of having to pick up letters at private homes and deliver them to homes coast to coast for 50 cents. They can't do it
They would insist on limited delivery days only to routes that are profitable
Postal delivery to rural areas would cease to exist

Let's be honest, moron. Private industry can do anything government can do at a much lower price. I people want daily delivery, then that's what private enterprise will provide, and they'll do it cheaper than the government.

 

[rightwinger]

Show me a private company that will deliver any product ANYWHERE for 50 cents

Packages are obviously going to cost more than an envelope with a letter, so your demand is just as idiotic.

Deliver ANYTHING...ANYWHERE

Find me a single private company that will even come to your home for 50 cents

You claim they are so much more efficient than the Post Office. Show me a single example of the efficiency of private industry that can match the post office delivering a letter cross country for 50 cents

We'll never know until Congress makes it legal.

So what are you and the Postal Union afraid of?

Lets be honest Fingerboy

Private industry would balk at the idea of having to pick up letters at private homes and deliver them to homes coast to coast for 50 cents. They can't do it
They would insist on limited delivery days only to routes that are profitable
Postal delivery to rural areas would cease to exist

Let's be honest, moron. Private industry can do anything government can do at a much lower price. I people want daily delivery, then that's what private enterprise will provide, and they'll do it cheaper than the government.

Then provide me examples of anything private industry does that compares to the efficiency of the Post Office delivering letters for under 50 cents

Show me anyone in the private sector that will even come to your house for 49 cents let alone pick up a letter and deliver it cross country

 

[candycorn]

It's illegal for private firms to deliver 1st class mail.

We've already had this discussion in the past, and I don't want to have a repeat.

You're funny. I'm not looking for a repeat. You are the one that claimed private firms have the answer to cheap daily mail delivery, not me.

Yes, and then you displayed your ignorance by claiming the private firms can already deliver 1st class mail.

Quote me saying that you LYING POS. Where did I say that? Huh? Where?

Post #593

"Nonsense. Private firms already deliver mail. It's not any cheaper."

Private firms do deliver mail. What part of private "mail" carriers being common place is confusing you"? You've never heard of fed-ex? You added the term first class to mail, not me. Mail is a generic term.

Mail is not a generic term. What Bripat is doing is seeking to create a difference out of the slightest of distinctions. The word UPS/FEDEX use are mailpieces which is a generic term.

 

[candycorn]

Yes, and then you displayed your ignorance by claiming the private firms can already deliver 1st class mail.

Quote me saying that you LYING POS. Where did I say that? Huh? Where?

I love mental-midget wrestling.

Yeah, you get to do it every time you wrestle.

Hilarious....

You didn't get the joke, did you?

You're living proof that the world can take a joke. The punch line is between your legs.

 

[candycorn]

I've heard many GOPers say they don't. However, I feel strongly that they do. All one has to do is think about it for a minute and the answer should become obvious. However, the biggest job creators are consumers with money to spend.

Of Course the Government Can Create Jobs - Forbes

GOVERNMENT DOESN’T CREATE JOBS?!?!?!? SINCE WHEN???

Need and demand create jobs. People create jobs. A job is created by them who CAPITALIZE on the need. Ultimately, the market determines if there is a need or demand and adjusts itself to fill that need. A government can sometimes be a catalyst used by the market but its not the government's duty to create jobs.

Corporations are people....
Governments are people...

Both hires people to perform a task and pays them

Yet one creates jobs and the other one doesn't?

No. Corporations are not people. People can be an employee of or an owner of a corporation. But a corporation is nothing more than the name of an organization.

No. Governments are not people... People can be an employee of a or a political leader in a government. But a government is nothing more than the name of an organization formed by the people.

But Romney said Corporations are people.

Was he lying?

 

[bripat9643]

Packages are obviously going to cost more than an envelope with a letter, so your demand is just as idiotic.

Deliver ANYTHING...ANYWHERE

Find me a single private company that will even come to your home for 50 cents

You claim they are so much more efficient than the Post Office. Show me a single example of the efficiency of private industry that can match the post office delivering a letter cross country for 50 cents

We'll never know until Congress makes it legal.

So what are you and the Postal Union afraid of?

Lets be honest Fingerboy

Private industry would balk at the idea of having to pick up letters at private homes and deliver them to homes coast to coast for 50 cents. They can't do it
They would insist on limited delivery days only to routes that are profitable
Postal delivery to rural areas would cease to exist

Let's be honest, moron. Private industry can do anything government can do at a much lower price. I people want daily delivery, then that's what private enterprise will provide, and they'll do it cheaper than the government.

Then provide me examples of anything private industry does that compares to the efficiency of the Post Office delivering letters for under 50 cents

Show me anyone in the private sector that will even come to your house for 49 cents let alone pick up a letter and deliver it cross country

It's illegal, moron. How can I show you a company performing a service that will get them shutdown by the feds in two days?

It's easy to beat your competitors when they have been outlawed.

That's all you got, isn't it?

 

[bripat9643]

Quote me saying that you LYING POS. Where did I say that? Huh? Where?

I love mental-midget wrestling.

Yeah, you get to do it every time you wrestle.

Hilarious....

You didn't get the joke, did you?

You're living proof that the world can take a joke. The punch line is between your legs.

You still don't get it, do you?

 

[DriftingSand]

I've heard many GOPers say they don't. However, I feel strongly that they do. All one has to do is think about it for a minute and the answer should become obvious. However, the biggest job creators are consumers with money to spend.

Of Course the Government Can Create Jobs - Forbes

GOVERNMENT DOESN’T CREATE JOBS?!?!?!? SINCE WHEN???

Need and demand create jobs. People create jobs. A job is created by them who CAPITALIZE on the need. Ultimately, the market determines if there is a need or demand and adjusts itself to fill that need. A government can sometimes be a catalyst used by the market but its not the government's duty to create jobs.

Corporations are people....
Governments are people...

Both hires people to perform a task and pays them

Yet one creates jobs and the other one doesn't?

No. Corporations are not people. People can be an employee of or an owner of a corporation. But a corporation is nothing more than the name of an organization.

No. Governments are not people... People can be an employee of a or a political leader in a government. But a government is nothing more than the name of an organization formed by the people.

But Romney said Corporations are people.

Was he lying?

I didn't think you would ever believe a Republican.

 

[Harry Dresden]

You're funny. I'm not looking for a repeat. You are the one that claimed private firms have the answer to cheap daily mail delivery, not me.

Yes, and then you displayed your ignorance by claiming the private firms can already deliver 1st class mail.

Quote me saying that you LYING POS. Where did I say that? Huh? Where?

Post #593

"Nonsense. Private firms already deliver mail. It's not any cheaper."

Private firms do deliver mail. What part of private "mail" carriers being common place is confusing you"? You've never heard of fed-ex? You added the term first class to mail, not me. Mail is a generic term.

They deliver packages. They don't deliver 1st class mail, which is the kind you get in your mailbox. They are not even allowed to put anything in your mail box.

packages are considered mail too.....

Quote me saying that you LYING POS. Where did I say that? Huh? Where?

Post #593

"Nonsense. Private firms already deliver mail. It's not any cheaper."

Private firms do deliver mail. What part of private "mail" carriers being common place is confusing you"? You've never heard of fed-ex? You added the term first class to mail, not me. Mail is a generic term.

They deliver packages. They don't deliver 1st class mail, which is the kind you get in your mailbox. They are not even allowed to put anything in your mail box.

I never said first class mail. Again you are making that up. I said mail. Mail is a generic term.
The private guys can't put stuff in your USPTO owned mail box, unless they are being contracted by the USPTO. But they can put stuff in a privately owned mail box at your home or place of business that is designated for non-first class mail shit. The reason for the first class mail rule is they don't want the private guys taking your paychecks or outgoing payments. That said the USPTO subs out to private firms and independent contractors for some deliveries and vice versa. Many incoming and outgoing items don't even hit a mail box of any kind.

I thought you didn't want to have a discussion on this.

Wrong. The reason for it is because Postal workers don't want to compete with private firm who can do the same job for a lot less.

thats not the reason why.....where the hell do you get this shit?....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Post #593

"Nonsense. Private firms already deliver mail. It's not any cheaper."

Private firms do deliver mail. What part of private "mail" carriers being common place is confusing you"? You've never heard of fed-ex? You added the term first class to mail, not me. Mail is a generic term.

They deliver packages. They don't deliver 1st class mail, which is the kind you get in your mailbox. They are not even allowed to put anything in your mail box.

I never said first class mail. Again you are making that up. I said mail. Mail is a generic term.
The private guys can't put stuff in your USPTO owned mail box, unless they are being contracted by the USPTO. But they can put stuff in a privately owned mail box at your home or place of business that is designated for non-first class mail shit. The reason for the first class mail rule is they don't want the private guys taking your paychecks or outgoing payments. That said the USPTO subs out to private firms and independent contractors for some deliveries and vice versa. Many incoming and outgoing items don't even hit a mail box of any kind.

I thought you didn't want to have a discussion on this.

Wrong. The reason for it is because Postal workers don't want to compete with private firm who can do the same job for a lot less.

Sounds like you would prefer that postal workers should make minimum wage and have no benefits. That's a common NaziCon belief. If so, I would prefer to pick up my mail at the Post Office rather than have it delivered by someone who doesn't give a shit whose mailbox they stick it in.

private carriers care about accurate delivery too....we have had postal carriers who were pretty bad at accuracy and they had a nonchalant attitude too.....

 

[Lakhota]

The U.S. Postal Service employs many veterans - including many disabled veterans!

 

[bripat9643]

Yes, and then you displayed your ignorance by claiming the private firms can already deliver 1st class mail.

Quote me saying that you LYING POS. Where did I say that? Huh? Where?

Post #593

"Nonsense. Private firms already deliver mail. It's not any cheaper."

Private firms do deliver mail. What part of private "mail" carriers being common place is confusing you"? You've never heard of fed-ex? You added the term first class to mail, not me. Mail is a generic term.

They deliver packages. They don't deliver 1st class mail, which is the kind you get in your mailbox. They are not even allowed to put anything in your mail box.

packages are considered mail too.....

Post #593

"Nonsense. Private firms already deliver mail. It's not any cheaper."

Private firms do deliver mail. What part of private "mail" carriers being common place is confusing you"? You've never heard of fed-ex? You added the term first class to mail, not me. Mail is a generic term.

They deliver packages. They don't deliver 1st class mail, which is the kind you get in your mailbox. They are not even allowed to put anything in your mail box.

I never said first class mail. Again you are making that up. I said mail. Mail is a generic term.
The private guys can't put stuff in your USPTO owned mail box, unless they are being contracted by the USPTO. But they can put stuff in a privately owned mail box at your home or place of business that is designated for non-first class mail shit. The reason for the first class mail rule is they don't want the private guys taking your paychecks or outgoing payments. That said the USPTO subs out to private firms and independent contractors for some deliveries and vice versa. Many incoming and outgoing items don't even hit a mail box of any kind.

I thought you didn't want to have a discussion on this.

Wrong. The reason for it is because Postal workers don't want to compete with private firm who can do the same job for a lot less.

thats not the reason why.....where the hell do you get this shit?....

Yes, that is the reason. Every time a bill comes up to legalize 1st class mail delivery the Postal Union goes into overdrive to shoot it down.

 

[rightwinger]

Deliver ANYTHING...ANYWHERE

Find me a single private company that will even come to your home for 50 cents

You claim they are so much more efficient than the Post Office. Show me a single example of the efficiency of private industry that can match the post office delivering a letter cross country for 50 cents

We'll never know until Congress makes it legal.

So what are you and the Postal Union afraid of?

Lets be honest Fingerboy

Private industry would balk at the idea of having to pick up letters at private homes and deliver them to homes coast to coast for 50 cents. They can't do it
They would insist on limited delivery days only to routes that are profitable
Postal delivery to rural areas would cease to exist

Let's be honest, moron. Private industry can do anything government can do at a much lower price. I people want daily delivery, then that's what private enterprise will provide, and they'll do it cheaper than the government.

Then provide me examples of anything private industry does that compares to the efficiency of the Post Office delivering letters for under 50 cents

Show me anyone in the private sector that will even come to your house for 49 cents let alone pick up a letter and deliver it cross country

It's illegal, moron. How can I show you a company performing a service that will get them shutdown by the feds in two days?

It's easy to beat your competitors when they have been outlawed.

That's all you got, isn't it?

I see you keep struggling

You claim the private sector is more efficienct, yet can't point to a single example of anything in the private sector that compares to the efficiency of the Post Office

 

[Harry Dresden]

Private firms do deliver mail. What part of private "mail" carriers being common place is confusing you"? You've never heard of fed-ex? You added the term first class to mail, not me. Mail is a generic term.

They deliver packages. They don't deliver 1st class mail, which is the kind you get in your mailbox. They are not even allowed to put anything in your mail box.

I never said first class mail. Again you are making that up. I said mail. Mail is a generic term.
The private guys can't put stuff in your USPTO owned mail box, unless they are being contracted by the USPTO. But they can put stuff in a privately owned mail box at your home or place of business that is designated for non-first class mail shit. The reason for the first class mail rule is they don't want the private guys taking your paychecks or outgoing payments. That said the USPTO subs out to private firms and independent contractors for some deliveries and vice versa. Many incoming and outgoing items don't even hit a mail box of any kind.

I thought you didn't want to have a discussion on this.

Wrong. The reason for it is because Postal workers don't want to compete with private firm who can do the same job for a lot less.

Show me a private firm that will pick up a letter from my home and deliver it to someone elses home on the other side of the country for under 50 cents

I dare you to show me a private firm that would deliver to the other side of town for 50 cents

That would obviously be impossible since it's illegal.

i will tell you a few things private firms wont do if they got to deliver the 1st class....First-Class Mail prices are the same regardless of how far the mail travels and that postage includes forwarding and return services.....lets see a private firm want to do that without charging more for distance and forwarding and return service....

 

[Lakhota]

Doesn't USPS already employ private contractors?

 

[Harry Dresden]

You're funny. I'm not looking for a repeat. You are the one that claimed private firms have the answer to cheap daily mail delivery, not me.

Yes, and then you displayed your ignorance by claiming the private firms can already deliver 1st class mail.

Quote me saying that you LYING POS. Where did I say that? Huh? Where?

Post #593

"Nonsense. Private firms already deliver mail. It's not any cheaper."

he did not specify 1st class.....even 4th class is considered mail...

Perhaps, but when people talk about "mail" in generic terms, they're referring to 1st class mail.

they are?.....well maybe you non postal people do....to me its all mail.....

 

[hazlnut]

President, Governor, Mayor... There's 3 right there.

 

[Nosmo King]

Let me give you an example of how the government creates jobs in the private sector.

I am an Environmental Engineer. I currently am employed by the county as the Building Inspector, but previously I was employed by two engineering firms, both private sector employers. Our clients included the Department of Defense.

Several of my field projects involved the assessment and abatement of hazardous materials on Navy and Army bases all around the globe. I had to visit these bases, complete a survey of them for asbestos containing building materials, lead based paints, underground storage tanks, PCB contamination, waste water treatment and disposal, chemical storage and containment, residual waste collection and disposal and biohazard remediation.

Beyond the efforts of myself and my crews in the field, additional training and certifications had to be obtained. That meant professionals involved in the training and certifications of individuals and firms had to be employed.

Personal Protective equipment had to be purchased. Housing and transportation had to be secured for our overseas travels.

Now, the government did not directly employ any of us, but their contracts made all that possible.

Without our efforts, property transfers into private hands would not be possible. Without the proper environmental precautions, no insurance underwriter would sell the purchaser any policies. Without insurance, no financing would be available to those private concerns.

Now, there were private vendors servicing all those bases. Building maintenance, road construction and repair, food services, and grounds maintenance were just a few of the services provided by private contractors.

And this is just my own limited experiences with government contracts. Imagine all the other privately employed individuals and firms interacting with government entities here and abroad.

Yes indeed, the government creates jobs.

You've missed the point. The government exists and pays for those jobs by way of taxes. The people are taxed, hire government to hire someone else. That isn't government creating jobs, they are the middleman.

Some of the regulations established by the government directly led to the emergence of private industry. For example, asbestos remediation.

The government did not fund private industry, but private industry evolved to meet a demand. Remediation companies, engineering companies. companies to manufacture Personal Protective equipment, abatement equipment (who ever heard of a HEPA filter prior to the asbestos regulations?)

The government, in an effort to assure public health and safety, set forth a scaffold of regulations. Private concerns developed as a response.

While some of the asbestos abatement occurred on government property, many more abatement projects happened at private sector venues.

You mentioned contractors so those were hired with tax dollars. There are private companies that manufacture government signs, made a bunch of them myself, mostly state and county stuff but the need exists, people need to know to stop or what the street name is, etc.

But again, it's government acting on the public's behalf, funded by the public. If there was no government agency to order signs a private company could be hired to it and everything else you mentioned. That isn't job creation, it's the marketplace and society with the demand and government working for them. I'd argue a lot more can be done more efficiently with more private companies. Clearly they can access hazardous materials, defined by government hired by the people to do so.

Why don't we just legislate enough work to employ everyone if you are right?

You missed the point.

There are regulations concerning the assessment and abatement of asbestos. That's it. Regulations. No mandate, no government contracts.

In response to those regulations, private companies sprang up providing the expertise and necessary equipment to get the job done.

These private sector employees and firms can then accomplish the task of assessment and abatement and not necessarily through government contracts.

By mandating the regulations, whole industries were created, and jobs were created.