Do Federal/State/Local Governments Create Jobs?

[kaz]

That doesn't mean government to them. They are only outraged about helping poor people

When did conservatives ever refuse to help anyone? You're just throwing crap against the wall when you say that.

The problem is that conservatives give by choice, liberals want giving to be done with force

I invite anyone to show us how a government would function if all taxation were voluntary.

Well, the massive welfare state you defend certainly couldn't exist. That's the whole point of it.

Neither could the massive warfare-State the right defends, either.

Just so you know, Einstein, Bripat is an anarchist, not a conservative. That point could not have been more pointless.

And seriously, you think the welfare State was created by conservatives not liberals? You may want to come out of your cabin more often.

 

[kaz]

I've heard many GOPers say they don't. However, I feel strongly that they do. All one has to do is think about it for a minute and the answer should become obvious. However, the biggest job creators are consumers with money to spend.

That's what's wrong, you "think about it for a minute" and go with the obvious and wrong answer. Liberalism in a nutshell, not thinking things through. An ideology which is well intentioned and poorly conceived.

What is evident if you actually think it through rather than cut off thinking in one minute is that all money spent by government was removed from the economy. That means every job created destroyed one and no job was created.

Then if you continue to think about it, you realize that government creates nothing. You took the money to fund the job from someone who used it to create a profit and grow the economy. Now you realize that every government job created destroyed more than one job.

And the best thing a government employee can do economically is nothing. But they don't, they create more red tape and bureaucracy for job creators. So now they are destroying even more than that.

So, you can think for one minute and believe the obvious, which is wrong. Or you can think it through and realize we need to reduce government jobs to create more jobs.

The government doesn't create anything?
Roads,bridges, parks, schools, water systems, a military, airports.....

Creates millions of jobs

It doesn't create anything that wouldn't have been created by the private sector at a lower cost.

Interesting

Why didn't the private sector step up and pay for our roads, bridges, schools, armed forces, airports

They benefit from them, why didn't they provide them?

If we want roads we get Marxism. That is a great argument, big guy. Very convincing.

 

[Redfish]

Government funded research has created the Internet, GPS, the microcircuit, Google, medical breakthroughs

Millions upon millions of jobs

yes, it has. So what? Henry Ford, Thomas Edison, Bill Gates, Donald Trump, Steve Jobs, Warren Buffet. Those 6 guys created more jobs than all the governments in the world.

Really?

More people have worked at Ford motors in the last 100 years than have served in the US military?

Are you sure about that?

Did the government CREATE military jobs? or did it use taxpayer money to pay members of the military?

I thought you libs hated the military and called it a waste of money.

 

[Redfish]

I've heard many GOPers say they don't. However, I feel strongly that they do. All one has to do is think about it for a minute and the answer should become obvious. However, the biggest job creators are consumers with money to spend.

That's what's wrong, you "think about it for a minute" and go with the obvious and wrong answer. Liberalism in a nutshell, not thinking things through. An ideology which is well intentioned and poorly conceived.

What is evident if you actually think it through rather than cut off thinking in one minute is that all money spent by government was removed from the economy. That means every job created destroyed one and no job was created.

Then if you continue to think about it, you realize that government creates nothing. You took the money to fund the job from someone who used it to create a profit and grow the economy. Now you realize that every government job created destroyed more than one job.

And the best thing a government employee can do economically is nothing. But they don't, they create more red tape and bureaucracy for job creators. So now they are destroying even more than that.

So, you can think for one minute and believe the obvious, which is wrong. Or you can think it through and realize we need to reduce government jobs to create more jobs.

The government doesn't create anything?
Roads,bridges, parks, schools, water systems, a military, airports.....

Creates millions of jobs

It doesn't create anything that wouldn't have been created by the private sector at a lower cost.

Government hasn't built any roads or bridges that I'm aware of. They bought them. It's like saying you created a dishwasher when you upgraded your kitchen. No, you bought one and installed it. Government took money from the private sector and bought roads and bridges from the private sector. I'm fine with that, but to say they created them is not so. They bought them.

Liberals are so economically challenged they don't grasp step 1, which is value creation. A dishwasher company buys parts from vendors like steel from steel mills and electrical components and assembles them to be more value than the sum of the parts that went into it. That is value creation. With roads and bridges, government took land from the private sector, took money from the private sector, then bought roads and bridges to put on them. But they added zero value to the process. They created nothing.

It's of no value to have bridges? lol, Goddam that's even funnier.

lets see now. a bridge built by the govt using taxpayer money vs a bridge built with private money and paid for by the people who use it via tolls. Which do you think is better for the country as a whole?

 

[kaz]

That's what's wrong, you "think about it for a minute" and go with the obvious and wrong answer. Liberalism in a nutshell, not thinking things through. An ideology which is well intentioned and poorly conceived.

What is evident if you actually think it through rather than cut off thinking in one minute is that all money spent by government was removed from the economy. That means every job created destroyed one and no job was created.

Then if you continue to think about it, you realize that government creates nothing. You took the money to fund the job from someone who used it to create a profit and grow the economy. Now you realize that every government job created destroyed more than one job.

And the best thing a government employee can do economically is nothing. But they don't, they create more red tape and bureaucracy for job creators. So now they are destroying even more than that.

So, you can think for one minute and believe the obvious, which is wrong. Or you can think it through and realize we need to reduce government jobs to create more jobs.

The government doesn't create anything?
Roads,bridges, parks, schools, water systems, a military, airports.....

Creates millions of jobs

It doesn't create anything that wouldn't have been created by the private sector at a lower cost.

Government hasn't built any roads or bridges that I'm aware of. They bought them. It's like saying you created a dishwasher when you upgraded your kitchen. No, you bought one and installed it. Government took money from the private sector and bought roads and bridges from the private sector. I'm fine with that, but to say they created them is not so. They bought them.

Liberals are so economically challenged they don't grasp step 1, which is value creation. A dishwasher company buys parts from vendors like steel from steel mills and electrical components and assembles them to be more value than the sum of the parts that went into it. That is value creation. With roads and bridges, government took land from the private sector, took money from the private sector, then bought roads and bridges to put on them. But they added zero value to the process. They created nothing.

It's of no value to have bridges? lol, Goddam that's even funnier.

lets see now. a bridge built by the govt using taxpayer money vs a bridge built with private money and paid for by the people who use it via tolls. Which do you think is better for the country as a whole?

LOL, I have NYCrybaby on ignore, so I didn't see that clueless reply until you quoted her.

She doesn't understand the difference between economic value creation and value. Well, it is economic value creation because I value it! LOL. That's not why she's on ignore, she's on ignore because she constantly says "you said" and then makes up a bunch of shit I didn't say and addresses that. She also wants to argue with Republicans, not libertarians, so she pretends I'm a Republican. I told her I'd take her off if she stopped doing that. She has so far passed. Whatever, I sure don't miss the ditsy upstate chick.

I had a nice chat with my youngest daughter this morning. I value that. That means our chat created economic value! Because I valued it! My God, liberals are idiots.

 

[kaz]

Did the government CREATE military jobs? or did it use taxpayer money to pay members of the military?

I thought you libs hated the military and called it a waste of money.

Liberals never waste an opportunity to demonstrate their fundamental lack of grasp of economics

 

[Lakhota]

Did the government CREATE military jobs? or did it use taxpayer money to pay members of the military?

I thought you libs hated the military and called it a waste of money.

Liberals never waste an opportunity to demonstrate their fundamental lack of grasp of economics

It's actually scary to share the planet with some of you retards.

Of Course the Government Can Create Jobs! - Forbes

 

[kaz]

Did the government CREATE military jobs? or did it use taxpayer money to pay members of the military?

I thought you libs hated the military and called it a waste of money.

Liberals never waste an opportunity to demonstrate their fundamental lack of grasp of economics

It's actually scary to share the planet with some of you retards.

Of Course the Government Can Create Jobs! - Forbes

LOL, I always like how liberals say things like "Forbes" as if it's a conservative view when you quote liberals who write for them. Then you criticize conservatives for being one sided.

He, like you, are full of shit. You cannot process the argument. Here's what he said. "But, those who say that the government cannot create employment are adding another element to the definition. To them, a job is any routine activity for which we earn income paid by an entity required to earn a profit."

That is not the argument any fiscal conservative is saying, it's a strawman. None of you are intelligent enough or have critical minds to address or even acknowledge the actual argument fiscal conservatives are making.

Government TAKES THE MONEY OUT OF THE PRIVATE SECTOR. That is the argument, not one of you grasp that no matter how many people tell you that endlessly.

 

[Lakhota]

The Myth of Job Creation

First, the basics. At last count, government at all levels — federal, state and local — employed 22 million Americans, with the largest segment working in public education. Is that too many? No. Since the late 1980s, the number of public-sector workers has averaged about 7.3 for every 100 people. With the loss of 569,000 government jobs since June 2009, that ratio now stands at about 7 per 100.

Public-sector job loss means trouble for everyone. Government jobs are crucial to education, public health and safety, environmental protection, defense, homeland security and myriad other functions that the private sector cannot fulfill. They are also critical for private-sector job growth in two fundamental ways. First, the government gets its supplies from private-sector companies, which is why Republican senators like John McCain have been frantically warning about the dire effects on job creation if Congress moves ahead with planned military spending cuts. (Republicans insisted upon the cuts as part of their ill-advised showdown over the debt ceiling.) Second, government spending on supplies and salaries reverberates strongly through the economy, increasing demand and with it, employment.

That means the economy suffers when government cuts back. A report by the Economic Policy Institute examined the effect of recent cutbacks at the state and local level — including direct loss of government jobs and indirect loss of suppliers’ jobs; the jobs that should have been added to keep up with population growth; and the reduction in purchasing power from other cutbacks. If not for state and local budget austerity, the report found, the economy would have 2.3 million more jobs today, half of which would be in the private sector.

The government does not create jobs? It most certainly does. And at this time of state budgetary hardship, a dose of federal fiscal aid to states and localities could create more jobs, in both the public and private sectors.

More: The Myth of Job Creation - The New York Times

No sane person can factually deny that government does in fact create jobs. It's a no-brainer!

 

[kaz]

Government jobs are crucial to education, public health and safety, environmental protection, defense, homeland security and myriad other functions that the private sector cannot fulfill

No sane person can factually deny that government does in fact create jobs. It's a no-brainer!

Still don't grasp the point. Government does not create a .. net ... job. Only the creation of economic value can do that. For every job, government ... takes ... the ... money ... out ... of ... the ... private ... sector. How do you not comprehend that?

As for infrastructure, for my business, I have heat, electric, janitorial service, internet, phones, ... Those are infrastructure costs. They don't make the business wealthier, they allow it to function. That is what government at best does, provide infrastructure. At worst is destroys value and it does that way too much.

Other than Bripat, none of us in this conversation to my knowledge are anarchists. We support government infrastructure. However, that doesn't make our country wealthier any more than my business infrastructure brings in any revenue to make us wealthier. However, once I have an infrastructure, spending more on infrastructure detracts from the business value. Buying more phone lines than we need, a bigger furnace when we already have sufficient heat, faster internet speeds when our speed is fine, at that point, it becomes a money drain and destroys economic value.

 

[Lakhota]

Government jobs are crucial to education, public health and safety, environmental protection, defense, homeland security and myriad other functions that the private sector cannot fulfill

No sane person can factually deny that government does in fact create jobs. It's a no-brainer!

Still don't grasp the point. Government does not create a .. net ... job. Only the creation of economic value can do that. For every job, government ... takes ... the ... money ... out ... of ... the ... private ... sector. How do you not comprehend that?

As for infrastructure, for my business, I have heat, electric, janitorial service, internet, phones, ... Those are infrastructure costs. They don't make the business wealthier, they allow it to function. That is what government at best does, provide infrastructure. At worst is destroys value and it does that way too much.

Other than Bripat, none of us in this conversation to my knowledge are anarchists. We support government infrastructure. However, that doesn't make our country wealthier any more than my business infrastructure brings in any revenue to make us wealthier. However, once I have an infrastructure, spending more on infrastructure detracts from the business value. Buying more phone lines than we need, a bigger furnace when we already have sufficient heat, faster internet speeds when our speed is fine, at that point, it becomes a money drain and destroys economic value.

I grasp only one thing from you - you're a hopeless NaziCon idiot.

 

[kaz]

Government jobs are crucial to education, public health and safety, environmental protection, defense, homeland security and myriad other functions that the private sector cannot fulfill

No sane person can factually deny that government does in fact create jobs. It's a no-brainer!

Still don't grasp the point. Government does not create a .. net ... job. Only the creation of economic value can do that. For every job, government ... takes ... the ... money ... out ... of ... the ... private ... sector. How do you not comprehend that?

As for infrastructure, for my business, I have heat, electric, janitorial service, internet, phones, ... Those are infrastructure costs. They don't make the business wealthier, they allow it to function. That is what government at best does, provide infrastructure. At worst is destroys value and it does that way too much.

Other than Bripat, none of us in this conversation to my knowledge are anarchists. We support government infrastructure. However, that doesn't make our country wealthier any more than my business infrastructure brings in any revenue to make us wealthier. However, once I have an infrastructure, spending more on infrastructure detracts from the business value. Buying more phone lines than we need, a bigger furnace when we already have sufficient heat, faster internet speeds when our speed is fine, at that point, it becomes a money drain and destroys economic value.

I grasp only one thing from you - you're a hopeless NaziCon idiot.

You say I'm a NaziCon and that "I" am the idiot? Fascinating.

Everything I am telling you is basic econ 101. A subject I know well and you don't grasp in the least. What about actually responding to the points? What would happen if a liberal grasped a discussion and actually participated with content and lucid responses? Would your head explode? Mine probably would if you did that. Now there's some incentive for you...

 

[Lakhota]

Government jobs are crucial to education, public health and safety, environmental protection, defense, homeland security and myriad other functions that the private sector cannot fulfill

No sane person can factually deny that government does in fact create jobs. It's a no-brainer!

Still don't grasp the point. Government does not create a .. net ... job. Only the creation of economic value can do that. For every job, government ... takes ... the ... money ... out ... of ... the ... private ... sector. How do you not comprehend that?

As for infrastructure, for my business, I have heat, electric, janitorial service, internet, phones, ... Those are infrastructure costs. They don't make the business wealthier, they allow it to function. That is what government at best does, provide infrastructure. At worst is destroys value and it does that way too much.

Other than Bripat, none of us in this conversation to my knowledge are anarchists. We support government infrastructure. However, that doesn't make our country wealthier any more than my business infrastructure brings in any revenue to make us wealthier. However, once I have an infrastructure, spending more on infrastructure detracts from the business value. Buying more phone lines than we need, a bigger furnace when we already have sufficient heat, faster internet speeds when our speed is fine, at that point, it becomes a money drain and destroys economic value.

I grasp only one thing from you - you're a hopeless NaziCon idiot.

You say I'm a NaziCon and that "I" am the idiot? Fascinating.

Everything I am telling you is basic econ 101. A subject I know well and you don't grasp in the least. What about actually responding to the points? What would happen if a liberal grasped a discussion and actually participated with content and lucid responses? Would your head explode? Mine probably would if you did that. Now there's some incentive for you...

I have an MBA - but I knew governments create jobs long before I even earned my undergraduate degrees in accounting, business and economics. It ain't rocket science...

 

[kaz]

I have an MBA - but I knew governments create jobs long before I even earned my undergraduate degrees in accounting, business and economics. It ain't rocket science...

That's sad, I'd sue for your money back. I'll testify for you pro bono. So why can't you directly address any of the economic points being made then? Let's start with step 1.

Do you grasp that taxes are taken out of the economy from companies that create economic value?

 

[rightwinger]

Government funded research has created the Internet, GPS, the microcircuit, Google, medical breakthroughs

Millions upon millions of jobs

The government did not create Google or the microcircuit, and it only played a small part in creating the internet. Most medical breakthroughs have been privately funded.

Google was created from a federal research grant, microcircuits were developed for the defense industry, GPS was a defense program, the Internet was stolen from ARPANET, the government is a major funding source for medical research

Millions and millions of jobs created by the government

 

[rightwinger]

Government jobs are crucial to education, public health and safety, environmental protection, defense, homeland security and myriad other functions that the private sector cannot fulfill

No sane person can factually deny that government does in fact create jobs. It's a no-brainer!

Still don't grasp the point. Government does not create a .. net ... job. Only the creation of economic value can do that. For every job, government ... takes ... the ... money ... out ... of ... the ... private ... sector. How do you not comprehend that?

As for infrastructure, for my business, I have heat, electric, janitorial service, internet, phones, ... Those are infrastructure costs. They don't make the business wealthier, they allow it to function. That is what government at best does, provide infrastructure. At worst is destroys value and it does that way too much.

Other than Bripat, none of us in this conversation to my knowledge are anarchists. We support government infrastructure. However, that doesn't make our country wealthier any more than my business infrastructure brings in any revenue to make us wealthier. However, once I have an infrastructure, spending more on infrastructure detracts from the business value. Buying more phone lines than we need, a bigger furnace when we already have sufficient heat, faster internet speeds when our speed is fine, at that point, it becomes a money drain and destroys economic value.

Roads and all infrastructure are an economic value. All society benefits from them
Police, fire departments, teachers are all economic value
Society pays for them and society benefits

 

[kaz]

Other than Bripat, none of us in this conversation to my knowledge are anarchists. We support government infrastructure. However, that doesn't make our country wealthier any more than my business infrastructure brings in any revenue to make us wealthier. However, once I have an infrastructure, spending more on infrastructure detracts from the business value. Buying more phone lines than we need, a bigger furnace when we already have sufficient heat, faster internet speeds when our speed is fine, at that point, it becomes a money drain and destroys economic value.

Roads and all infrastructure are an economic value. All society benefits from them
Police, fire departments, teachers are all economic value
Society pays for them and society benefits

Government doesn't bill roads or infrastructure, they buy it. We covered that, try to keep up. And "society" doesn't pay for them, job creators do. Screw turners like you live off our jobs and our infrastructure. The good ones appreciate that. The parasites like you don't.

 

[Lakhota]

I have an MBA - but I knew governments create jobs long before I even earned my undergraduate degrees in accounting, business and economics. It ain't rocket science...

That's sad, I'd sue for your money back. I'll testify for you pro bono. So why can't you directly address any of the economic points being made then? Let's start with step 1.

Do you grasp that taxes are taken out of the economy from companies that create economic value?

The taxes paid by government employees also create "economic value"...not to mention the goods and services they also buy from the private sector. For our economy to work - money must "circulate"...

Bottom line: Public sector employees are also "stakeholders" in the economy!!!!!

 

[rightwinger]

Other than Bripat, none of us in this conversation to my knowledge are anarchists. We support government infrastructure. However, that doesn't make our country wealthier any more than my business infrastructure brings in any revenue to make us wealthier. However, once I have an infrastructure, spending more on infrastructure detracts from the business value. Buying more phone lines than we need, a bigger furnace when we already have sufficient heat, faster internet speeds when our speed is fine, at that point, it becomes a money drain and destroys economic value.

Roads and all infrastructure are an economic value. All society benefits from them
Police, fire departments, teachers are all economic value
Society pays for them and society benefits

Government doesn't bill roads or infrastructure, they buy it. We covered that, try to keep up. And "society" doesn't pay for them, job creators do. Screw turners like you live off our jobs and our infrastructure. The good ones appreciate that. The parasites like you don't.

They are still creating jobs. Those Government contracts on those projects create millions of jobs
It is not the private sector investing in that infrastructure .....it is the government

The term job creator is bullshit and is just plain offensive

 

[kaz]

I have an MBA - but I knew governments create jobs long before I even earned my undergraduate degrees in accounting, business and economics. It ain't rocket science...

That's sad, I'd sue for your money back. I'll testify for you pro bono. So why can't you directly address any of the economic points being made then? Let's start with step 1.

Do you grasp that taxes are taken out of the economy from companies that create economic value?

The taxes paid by government employees also create "economic value"...not to mention the goods and services they also buy from the private sector. For our economy to work - money must "circulate"...

Bottom line: Public sector employees are also "stakeholders" in the economy!!!!!

You're an MBA? Bull